Talk:Zvonko Bogdan

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[edit] Concert

On November, 22nd 2006, Zvonko Bogdan will perform at "Vatroslav Lisinski" Concert Hall in Zagreb, Croatia. It's part of his commemoration tour of 35 years of the "Ej, salasi na severu Backe" song. First two concerts were earlier this year in Belgrade and Novi Sad, Serbia. So if you want to hear him in this special occasion and missed first two concerts in Serbia, this is your last chance.

PismaFan 22:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sombor

Stating "Sombor, Hungary" as a birthplace in 1942 is not really appropriate thing to do. Should we put "NDH" for persons born 1941-1945 in Bosnia and Croatia? What next, "Vienna, Germany" 1939-1945, "Knin, Republika Srpska Krajina" 1991-1994? Accuracy must have some limits. Duja 10:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sombor (Zombor) in 1942 was in fact integral part of Hungary. I think if someone was born in Zagreb in 1942 we should put NDH. But also if someone was born in Zagreb in 1980 we should write Zagreb, Yugoslavia (present day Croatia). It is not about disputes on legitimacy but about factual accuracy. --Koppany 03:04, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

It was "integral part of Hungary" only from the point of view of Adolph Hitler and Axis Powers. From the point of view of the international community, it was integral part of Yugoslavia occupied by Axis troops. From the legal point of view, NDH never legally existed (it was just illegal unrecognized creation). So, if you want to edit here from the Axis point of view, you found wrong place for that. PANONIAN (talk) 11:24, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Using the word "reannexed" I tried to find a neutral expression acceptable for Serbs and Hungarians as well. No-one can disput that Zombor was part of Hungary before the imposed peace treaty of Trianon, thus it is just normal to say that in 1941 the town was reannexed to Hungary. And in 1945/47 it was reannexed to Yugoslavia since between 1918/20 and 1941 it was part of that state. I dont wanna edit from any biased point of view but from the point of view of the facts and I am trying to find those expressions that dont offend any nationality. It is a pity that you didnt get this. --Koppany 12:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

"Reannexed" is also POV word used by the Axis. From the Serbian point of view, the pre-Trianon Kingdom of Hungary (called "Ugarska" in Serbian) and post-Trianon independent Hungary (called "Mađarska" in Serbian) are not same countries and therefore word "reannexed" is far from neutral. Also, as I explained it is completelly wrong that town was "in 1941 reannexed to Hungary and in 1945 reannexed to Yugoslavia" because it was legally part of Yugoslavia from 1941 to 1945 so it is not possible to be reannexed by it when it never legally ceased to be part of Yugoslavia. Hungarian WW2 occupation was never recognized by anybody and the only correct description of that time period is "illegal military and civil occupation of the Yugoslav territory". PANONIAN (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influence on... Croatia

This section... (looking for a politically correct word) sucks. It's a correction of trivia about semi-related stuff in total disproportion with the rest of the article. Heck, some of those things are so trivial that they wouldn't fit even if the rest of the article were comprehensive. Duja► 21:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


I don't see any problem with content. People go to the Wikepedia to find information. This things you can't find anywhere on the internet considering mr. Bogdan. I think, that the fact that it's about Croatia is more of a problem to You than the the content itself. This kind of tone brings me back to the end of the Eighties, God rest their soul. Removing "j" from the word "sjever" just backs up this feeling.

PismaFan 23:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. I'm also keen to learn more about Zvonko's life and songs, but this is fancruft (which, in addition, aims to prove a certain political point). Thanks for the personal attack, which "brings me back to the end of the Eighties" as well. Removing "j" from word sjever is the result of the original song title, as sung by Zvonko himself. I guess Bunjevci use "sever" rather than "sjever" or "siver", don't they? Duja► 11:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
a) What personal attack ? Have I insulted You, called You names ???
b) As You might notice, if I had any intention of removing "sever" from article, I would start in the song list, which is in above questioned paragraph. Skoro is always siniging "sjever" and most of tamburitza bands in Croatia do the same; sung "sjever".
c) There are 7 undercategories ; Lists of Frequently Asked Questions, Travel guides, Memorials, Instruction manuals, Internet guides,Textbooks and annotated texts, Plot summaries. Under which one would go the data you're complaining about ? Just wondering.
d) And what would be that "certain political point" that the big bad wolf/me is making ???
PismaFan 13:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Few things to clear up (and preferably stop there) before focusing on the contents:
a & d) Personal attack: you imply that "the fact that it's about Croatia is more of a problem to You [i.e. me] than the the content itself" and that "removing j from sjever backs up that feeling" I have a (nationalistic) problem with Croats. I strongly resent that.
b) The excess removal of "j" was just an oversight on my part. Ijekavian is my mother dialect after all.
Now, on to the essence of the dispute:
c) The point I was trying to make was primarily "That something is 100% true does not mean it is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia." I mean particularly stuff like the following (although the rest is not much more relevant either):
  • passing mention in Feral Tribune (should we list all media articles pertaining to a public figure?)
  • "Smogovci" and "Večernja škola" trivia (should we list all shows where someone's song was sung?)
  • He was a guest in "Turbo Limach Show", "Željka Ogresta i gosti", "Lijepom našom", "Nezavisna televizija, a local television from Moslavina", "musical wish hours" (should we list all possible shows where a public figure featured)? What next? List of popular songs for musical wish hours? List of shows featuring Zvonko Bogdan? List of Zvonko Bogdan's concerts?
In my opinion, all of this satisfies WP:CRUFT rather than an encyclopedia article. It's far better suited to a fan site than here—readers (myself included) would like to know more about his life and career than to acknowledge the fact that he appeared on a local TV from Moslavina. Duja► 15:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Croat?

Are there sources that he considers himself a Croat? --PaxEquilibrium 22:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

a) In the article you have the lines about the Brodfest and in the part called Review of Patriotic Songs, it's, let's say "Croatian Club only" and far as I know, Bogdan perfomered few times and won award for best lyrics in 2003.
b) Interview in Jutarnji List (2006/11/09/), Zagreb's daily newspaper Bogodan said these words about his career
Na početku karijere željeli ste biti glumac?
Točno. Kao mladić bio sam jedan od najdarovitijih amatera u Hrvatskom domu u Somboru.
At the begginings of your career you wanted to be an actor ?
Correct. As a young man, I was was of the most gifted ameteurs in Croatian house/community home in Sombor. [1]
c) His big return concert of 2002 in Zagreb, after his 10 year brake, was organised by "Udruga protjeranih Hrvata iz Srijema, Banata i Bačke" /Association of Exiled Croats of Srijem, Banat and Bačka/.
d) Concert materials of last Bogdan's last concet in Zagreb on 2006/11/22 are speaking of him as member Croatian Bunjevci group. I don't think he would approve materials for his own concerts if he's not agreeing with them.
PismaFan 14:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Bogdan is not Croat, nor Serb. He is Bunjevac. Vanjagenije 21:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bogdan as Croatian musician + Zvonko is Zvonimir

Zvonko Bogdan is a member of the ZAMP (Zaštita autorskih muzičkih prava/ Croatian Composer' Society, Collecting Society), so that membership makes him Croatian musician.

Here is his entry under Zvonimir Bogdan.

PismaFan 23:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Please don't pull irrelevant arguments; the very page says "U bazi podataka autora i njihovih djela dostupnoj na ovim stranicama pronaći ćete autore koji su državljani Republike Hrvatske i one koji nisu državljani RH a HDS ZAMP-u su dali svoju punomoć." It's not particularly denied that he's a Croatian patriot (among other things); but taking a ZAMP entry doesn't prove a thing -- he's not a Croatian citizen.
Your link is broken anyway; but on research, I do see that he's referred to as "zvonimir" in those materials and those materials only. All other Google Hits refer to a certain inventor from Germany. Even if the name "Zvonimir" is his actual given name and contained in his IDs, it's not particularly relevant; at best, it should be mentioned along with "Zvonko" as a side note.
Finally, I'm going to be bold and (at last) prune the chunks largely irrelevant information out of this article per WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE. If you do have fandom and respect for Zvonko, please come with some relevant data and sources. I don't care about politics. Duja► 13:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)