Talk:Zangief

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[edit] Trivia section

I've removed some of the Trivia-stuff, simply because it's unimportant stuff (e.g. little cameos, endings in non-canonical games, ...).

Also, somebody should write something about his rivalry with Mike Haggar. Thanks, 1stLtLombardi 18:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Incorporated the trivia section into the main article, creating separate Fictional Character Bio and Character Development sections to incorporate them. Also corrected minor errors on gameplay mechanics. Lindsay40k (talk) 00:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mikhail Gorbachev

I don't know who it was that added "Great Man" to Zangief's ending but I'm adding the Gorbachev apearence for the Trivia section.

SSF2 ending --DanHibiki 21:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Zangief and homosexuality

The part about homosexuality has been removed until someone can offer up any real documentation or real examples as the Vega-Baka example makes no sense. Vega being an idiot correlated to homosexuality how? It could just be he believes Vega to be stupid. user: CunningLinguist

Sounds fair enough to me (check the history of this talk page to see what I've put there before, but decided to take it off due to its tone) but... why did you remove the Japanese link? As far as I can tell, it does point to the correct article in the Japanese Wikipedia, so I'm putting it back in. – Kaonashi 18:27, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Err, sorry about that, I didnt meant to remove the Japanese link, I just removed the homosexuality paragraph and didnt notice I was removing it as well. My fault. Feel free to add it and anything else you feel pertinent that I may have changed as well.--CunningLinguist 07:53, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It's alright. We've had some problems with Zangief regarding this before, so It was me who modified that part to what you saw. I tried to NPOV it as much as I could, without taking it off entirely (since some people seemed decided to keep it there). But it's okay. I don't think that homosexuality stuff should be there at all. Not because of the subject itself, but because of the lack of proof. – Kaonashi 01:08, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Please add some sort of documentation/backup to the homosexuality bit or else it will be removed soon. If so many people beleive this there should be SOME documentation online.-CunningLinguist 05:15, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It has been more than a month that User:DarkSoldier has failed to present substantial (online) proof about what he claims, regarding this subject. For that matter I have added a {{disputed}} tag to the article, so that other people may easily notice this and perhaps state their opinions as well. Something should be done about this. --Kaonashi 02:23, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Indeed, his profile does say "嫌いなもの: 飛び道具　妙齢の美しい女性" This translates to "Dislikes: Projectile Weapons, Young Beautiful Women" Amusingly, though not very to-the-point in this case, his likes are the Cosack Dance and Wrestling. Unless I'm missing something, though, there isn't any mention of homosexuality in the rest of the Japanese article. --User:TheStripèdOne 4:09, 17 June, 2005

According to Tiamat's Street Fighter Plot Guide, which is based on official Capcom publications, Zangief is indeed gay. All of the evidence he references is Japanese, so I cannot find and translate evidence on my own, but he provides several examples. Apparently, it is stated explicitly in The Official Street Fighter 2 Fanbook. His win quote against Ryu in Zero 3 is "I don't like projectiles, but I like you personally...." His profile says he dislikes "young beautiful women". The Capcom Fighting Evolution ending could be taken as a joke, seeing as compilations are not canonical, and is presenting the exact opposite of what his persona is. --User:El Cid 07:45, 1 May 2003

the guide’s conclusions are based on suspicion only. There is no Capcom published information that states Zangief is gay. Street Fighter Eternal in particular does not mention anything about Zangief's sexual preferences. So don't go accusing anyone on pure speculation.

Regardless whether or not he is gay, he doesn't like beautiful women, period. So the Capcom fighting ending is utterly wrong. The proof I had to support this is in the american version of Street Fighter Eternal. Though, I haven't read the book myself, I emailed Tiamat's and he said they included that info in the translated version. So we can throw out the ending in the latest game. Besides, the ending is also drawn by Udon, so most likely, they goofed up.

If you guys don't believe me, buy the sfe book and see for yourself.

Also, if any of you guys can read japanese, it would be best to find these source books that state he is gay and scan the page to show one of you guys to translate it and confirm it.

It's pretty clear to me that any claims that Zangief is gay are a stretch, at best. I think his membership in the LGBT Video Game Characters category is based on someone's political agenda to portray more video game characters as gay, rather than on any real evidence. 65.110.224.198 06:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Zangief is a closet gay, ok? It's not uncommon for gay stars to get into a fake straight relationship so the all the rumors and stress related to them will stop.

Zangief gay? lol. that's too funny. Well technically muzhelozhstvo (Men lying with men) was ruled as illegal in 1933 by Stalin in the Soviet Union. But these laws have likely been lifted long ago. Three cheers for the queer cossack.--207.225.65.89 06:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that it should be mentioned that he is gay at least in the japanese continuity, since the japanese book "All About Capcom" and the older "Official Street Fighter 2 fanbook" says he is and he says "I don't like projectiles, but I like you personally...." in the japanese version of Street Fighter Alpha 3. Caesarcub 18:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

  • No, it doesn't. From Tiamat's plot guide (which cites both books as a reference):

....well, okay. From what Saiki TOLD me (I'm researching), Zangief IS gay. Makes me look at his SF2 ending at quite a new light, now. "You dance very well, Mr. Ex-President." And one of his CvS2 win quotes is "My body is perfect! I should be in a magazine!" And there's also him prancing around in a succubus body without any emotional turmoil impact in Lilith's Marvel VS Capcom ending... Oo I'm not sure if that proves things there, but Saiki said that he's gay. Actually, the Japanese stereotype for a gay man is a big hairy scantily clad (usually in something like a thong) man, often with a mustache. Well, Zangief fits most of the bill, sans the 'stache (which I guess would be what Eagle's there for). On a side note, although the "dislikes young women" thing was added to his bio only recently (come SFZ3), Zangief's SUPPOSEDLY been officially gay ever since he was first designed. HOWEVER, other people who can read Japanese have been kind enough to try to get and dig through official sources so far, and so far have been unable to find the official statement that states Zangief is gay. So the newest stance the plot guide must take now is that there is some evidence, and one of the guide's most trusted people said he got it from official sources that Zangief was gay, BUT we have yet to be able to dig up the source now and that guy kinda... dissappeared off the face of the internet. More CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence is things like Zangief's special intro with Eagle (which MIGHT be a joke on how both men are gay, although it could also just be a simple display of how they both have whirling moves) and one of Zangief's win quotes to Ryu in Street Fighter Zero 3 (yea, the Japanese version has character to character win quotes that Capcom of USA didn't bother to translate, though I'm sure they would have cut this one out, anyways). "I don't like projectiles, but I like you personally...." I've been told that SFZ3 quotes like this one imply heavily that he's gay worded in ways where the implication is meant to be obvious (but of course could be lost in the translation when non-Japanese readers read it). The phrase is "Omae wa suki da!", which can be a phrase for someone confessing feelings for someone else. HOWEVER, as no official statement can be found despite our searching, right now all I can say is that it's POSSIBLE that Capcom meant to IMPLY a gayness POSSIBLY but not as obviously as they did with Eagle, until further information can be turned up otherwise. Perhaps it's just meant to be an ambiguously gay-type joke, even.

Nowhere does it say that AAC or the SF2 Fanbook specifically says he's gay. Please don't make up facts. Danny Lilithborne 22:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

From what I understand he IS the japanese homosexual stereotype. Large, muscular, hairy, in a speedo. JaderVason 12:04, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
It says so in the Japanese books that he is gay. Just like Eagle some of his quotes in the various games give some light to this (Japanese versions) Jamesbuc
No it doesn't. Either name specific sources or just drop it. Dr Sarcastor 23:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...After reading this, it may be possible that tiamat's info might be wrong. Correctly if I am wrong, but in Tiamat's faqs, he claims that he cannot read japanese, but has other ppl translated it for him. It is possible someone gave him bad info or that he made it up. I still have a hard time believing that Capcom USA owns the Street Fighter License, which he claims is true based on speculation from Akiman's site, Sota's former president Jerry, and the cover of the game saying capcom USA. It is possible that Akiman may have mistook the info wrong, which is why it was removed; I mean, it could be that Capcom granted Udon, a USA company, sole license to do all the sf art, which would make it hard for someone like Akiman-the creator of street fighter-to put professional art on his site. As for Jerry from SOTA, he thinks out loud a lot which claims that never happen or rubs off as arrogent. It just doesn't make sense that the president of high dreams, producers of the defunct capcom vs snk 2 toyline didn't hear of the license change, yet another toy maker has. Also, the Capcom usa ltd on the street fighter collection box could be an american compliation. I mean Capcom have been releasing collection games that are exclusive to america for the past few years. I also remember seein a USA ltd on the american version of Grand Trusimo. Doesn't mean Sony of America owns it. The biggest reason I don't believe this is true is because no other gamming magazine-online or offline ever mention this and they usually mention stuff like this, especially sites like joystiq.com It isn't uncommon to have rumors taken as fact online.

sorry, but l digress. Just that Tiamat might full of it. --Doomzaber 08:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It is worth including in the article a mention of the debate about Zangief's sexuality, and I have added a short section detailing the issue. Anonymously accusing those who believe he is homosexual of having a "political agenda" is not a strong argument for only mentioning the issue in the closet discussion; frankly, deleting all public mention of the issue smacks far more of a political agenda.

Gaming magazines have run articles about Zangief's sexuality, including joystiq [1] (article uploaded two years before the above posting claiming they have not - could you not be bothered to google 'Zangief + homosexual', Doomzaber?), gamecentral, gamespot [2], gaygamer [3], etc.

The fact that games websites attempting to sell advertising space to companies trying to sell products to a demographic of young males regard the sexuality of game characters as either unimportant or an excuse for some cheap homophobic jokes is not a reason to brush the issue under the carpet - it is in fact a reason to raise the issue.

So, the article now mentions that a debate exists about Zangief's sexuality, which is true and relevant to a fictional character biography; it cites evidence; it establishes a context of Capcom including LGBT characters in its games of the era in which Zangief debuted (admittedly this was because their US arm considered it to be more acceptable to commit aggravated assault against a male-to-female transsexual than a biological female...); and finally it does not make absolute claims.

Still, it would not surprise me to see this section deleted anyway... Lindsay40k (talk) 23:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Doomzaber's post seems to just be an attempt to confuse the issue. Statements from workers at Capcom have already confirmed that a) USA controls the storyline of Final Fight and Street Fighter and b) Udon comics are considered canon now. As for the Zangief debate, I don't have an opinion on that. Lindsay40k's additions seem okay to me. JuJube (talk) 01:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Can't we just mention something along the lines of "Many sources list Zangief is gay, though official confirmation has yet to be found"? I mean, is it really such a big deal that no mention should be made until everyone is 100% certain that it's true? Krendall (talk) 18:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I said it would not surprise me to see this section deleted and on Feb 1st is was, by an anonymous IP address (58.69.185.42) that seemingly has not made any other revisions to Wikipedia nor made any attempt to explain this deletion. The section has been restored and will continue to be restored every time it is censored by the sock puppets of homophobic idiots this happens. Lindsay40k (talk) 03:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

LOL! is there a source that Zangief is gay? I don't think so! He is such a monster of a fighter, he can't be gay although he doesn't like beautiful young girls. I would believe more that Vega is gay. 83.64.76.55 (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

So gay people can't be strong? Nice. JuJube (talk) 04:25, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mecha Zangief

Metal Zangief sounds like a homage to Colossus from the X-men if you ask me, especially as it appears in Marvel vs Capcom. Invunerable metal plated Russian muscle men aren't that common! Is this worth mentioning? Coyote-37 11:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

  • It sounds like a minor coincidence to me. Danny Lilithborne 21:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd agree with coyote37. Sorry for putting it in before coming here, didn't think it would be disputed, but it seems very likely to be related. Both are Russian, both are big burly fighters, both have grey metal skin. That, combined with the fact that they are in the same game, makes it more than likely they are connected. If Zangief were like that in any other game then yes, it would probably be coincidence. But in a Marvel game? As coyote says, there are too many common factors there for it to be coincidence (the very fact that the two of us have seen that should count for something). I'm not going to try adding it again, but in light of more than one person suggesting it it should at least be re-considered. Prophaniti 17:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Prophaniti
  • Two people seeing a similarity does not a reference make. Unlike other more definitive similarities such as Eagle and Freddie Mercury, Iron Body Zangief could easily be a coincidence, as he spoke of having an indestructible body long before the crossover series. Unless a Capcom developer explicitly says it's a reference, it's not going back. Danny Lilithborne 21:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
  • A boast of an indestructible body could well be just that: a boast. But the same colouration and character within a game like that is too much to be a coincidence. Ultimately the similarities at the least warrent a basic mention of the possibility, and possibilities are not inherently against wikipedia, it is full of them. The two of us seeing it (as well as other people I have spoken to who are not on wikipedia) does not inherently make it correct, true, but it gives those in favour of it in the article greater numbers than those against, at least for now. A majority such as that is itself reason enough.
Is there a sourced reference for this..? I've searched about and found none. If this is something to speculate about, then its best left to the reader. This isn't something we base the construction of articles upon. This should be removed unless a source is provided that attribues this claim as offficial fact. -ZeroTalk 09:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I think there's some confusion here about what is being suggested exactly. It's true that to put in something saying they ARE connected would be too much. There is no evidence that they ARE connected. But what is being proposed is something saying they MAY be connected, and there is plenty of evidence for that much: the number of people who have seen it is evidence that they MAY be connected. True, there is no direct quote from a maker of the game, but a good 70% of wikipedia does not go to this level of confirmation, and that would be unnecessary.--Prophaniti 12:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
So is this data. By merit of noting this observation its irrelevant anyway. If readers make a visual connection then we leave it at that. As neutral editors of an encyclopedia that is overstepping over capcity as wikipedians. Control yourself. -Randall Brackett 13:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Woah seems some people cannot grasp the ideal of a manly man being rather flaming. Jesus.

  • It's unlikely that Capcom would ever put out any "official" statement describing the relationship between Zangief and Mecha Zangief since MZ isn't a "real" character. I think it would be safe to list him as a what-if or alternate version of Zangief used in the Marvel Vs. series. As far as the two being the same, I would think the fact that Zagief can transform into Mecha Zangief in Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 should be proof enough. Krendall (talk) 18:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] japanese

i like how he has a japanese name but no name in cyrilic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.9.223 (talk) 18:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Uh, he does? JuJube 18:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Course... It's not a russian name really (When I say "russian names" I mean names like Ivanov, Petrov, Kuznetsov etc.). But if you search for "Zangiev" or "Зангиев" - you will find some real people from North Ossetia (that region of Russia). There is one real wrestler among them, but without relations with Zangief. I think. Any case, this question need to be asked to this game devs. Dendr (talk) 14:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] start class?

This article now contains a section with information on the development of this character ad a number of independent sources, if somebody can take the time to add a list of in-game appearances by Zangief we should be well on our way to B-class. Lindsay40k (talk) 00:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's a partial list to help people get started on this:
  • Street Fighter II
  • Street Fighter II' Champion Edition
  • Street Fighter II' Hyper Fighting
  • Super Street Fighter II
  • Super Street Fighter II Turbo
  • Street Fighter Alpha 2
  • Street Fighter Alpha 3
  • X-Men vs. Street Fighter
  • Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter
  • Marvel vs. Capcom
  • Marvel vs. Capcom 2
  • Pocket Fighter (Super Gem Fighter Mini-Mix)
  • Capcom vs. SNK
  • Capcom vs. SNK 2
  • Capcom Fighters Evolution
Krendall (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biography Issues

  • The character biography needs a lot of work. Not only does it contain incorrect names (such as "Charlie Nash" instead of simply "Charlie" or "Nash"), but the flow is completely wrong. The second World Warrior Tournament (Street Fighter II) takes place years after the events of Street Fighter Alpha. The current bio seems to have all the events happening around the same time.
Edited it slightly to give a sense of time; given that hardly any dates are given in the SF series, it's pretty difficult to pin down an exact timeline. Lindsay40k (talk) 03:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, Zangief developed the Spinning Pile Driver before he was contacted by the government. While the move was inspired by Zangief being caught in a cyclone, I've always read that Zangief was dropped on his own head, not that he was piledriving a bear at that time.
Wait wha? I don't remember reading that? o.O Did that come from teh comic or something? o.O--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Saying that he dances with "Great Man" after winning the SF2 tournament is wrong, since he didn't officially win (of course, no true winner was announced by Capcom; but logic dictates it was either Guile of Chunli).
It is mentioned that Zangief's end sequences are non-canon; to restrict the plot only to his canon appearances in the central characters storylines would be to reduce him to an occasional punchbag and perhaps dying in Charlie's air strike after being put in the Psycho Drive Lindsay40k (talk) 03:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
  • As stated in an earlier entry, I think his rivaly with Mike Hagger (of Final Fight) should be mentioned.
  • Mentioning that Zangief fought against Omega Red alongside Colossus should be in a seperate section, since all crossover games are non-cannon. Krendall (talk) 18:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Most of th SF articles actually need some reworking...the Darkstalkers articles are even worse.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Almost all of Zangief's ending sequences are non-canon (this is mentioned in the article) and have the general character of a comic relief or spoof. Lindsay40k (talk) 02:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Some events of them are partially canon in a few cases (i.e. his SFA3 ending, as it is confirmed in SF Eternal he and Honda did damage to Bison's base).

[edit] Tetris?

Apparently according to the Tetris-wiki, there's a term called the zangi-move named after the big guy here...anyone else hear about that in a better context? Could be interesting to reference in there as some sort of legacy bit.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:44, 17 March 2008 (UTC)