User talk:Zaheen

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[edit] Unverified images

Hi! Thanks for uploading the following images:

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License, {{PD-self}} if you wish to release your own work to the public domain, {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. Peter O. (Talk, automation script) 06:53, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Same as above for Image:FedereAO05.jpg. -- user:zanimum


Reply from user:Zaheen :

The Lara images were created by me and I have made them free under GFDL. Image:FedereAO05.jpg is an AFP photo published on the internet. I believe it constitutes fair use because

  • the purpose and character of the use is for nonprofit encyclopediac purposes;
  • the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work is not diminished since it was published to view freely on the internet.


Hi Zaheen,

I noticed the rather impressive video clips/animated gifs you added to the Roger Federer page. I wondered where you got them from, and what the copyright status was of those images? You can put information about the source and copyright on the Image: pages, eg. Image:Fedslice.gif. thanks, Matthewmayer

Fedslice.gif is taken from the internet and I am not sure of its copyright status. Since it's not used in any page, I have added it for potential deletion. - Zaheen

[edit] Image Tagging Image:HumayunAzad.jpg

Warning sign
This media may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:HumayunAzad.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{GFDL}} to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 19:52, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Elena Dementieva.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Elena Dementieva.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you. Shyam (T/C) 10:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hermann Osthoff

Did you intend to create this page with only a interwiki link? TimBentley (talk) 00:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It's no longer empty, although it's not very good. TimBentley (talk) 04:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Your account is not blocked. Please provide the message you receive when trying to edit. Shell babelfish 10:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hindi-Urdu grammar

Assalamalaikum Zaheen. I noticed that you placed a merge tag on the Hindi-Urdu grammar article. However, the decision has already been made that Hindi-Urdu grammar will be the final article. (see discussion). Hindustānī (Hindī-Urdū) grammar will be deleted after the addition of the Perso-Arabic script to Hindi-Urdu grammar has been completed. Most of the additions have already been made. If you know the Perso-Arabic script, you are more than welcome to finish the additions. Thanks for you help! It is very much appreciated Khuda hafiz. AnupamTalk 21:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brian Lara

Hi. I noticed that the tremendously interesting 4 graphs section of his article is 2+ years out of date. (There's also a typo in the first of them, "if" instead of "of"). Did you do them? --Dweller 09:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Writing system (Bengali language)

Hi, could you answer a query on your addition to this article over at its talk page. Thanks. → AA (talk • contribs) — 19:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] bn "Must Read"

But in that case, why is the line "Must read of contributors" in English, instead of Bengali? If it's a must-read for Bengali readers, wouldn't that shut out ones who don't know English? --Golbez 05:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you are quibbling on semantics. Every educated Bengali, who is a potential contributor to the Bengali wikipedia, is intimately acquainted with both Bengali and English, to the point where he knows what "must-read for contributors" means. Due to its colonial legacy and recent international status as the lingua franca, English is the de facto second language in both Bangladesh and India (where majority of the potential Bengali wikipedia contributors come from), and it is taught to children from a very early age. So, no, there wouldn't be any "shutting out" that you seem to be worried about. Besides, the same "must read" content is prominently featured on the main page itself, as a module, in Bengali. --Zaheen 05:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Maybe I am squabbling, but it just seems to make sense to me to have a notice to read something, and the actual something, in the same language. --Golbez 02:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Generally, yes, that makes sense. But as I explained, it is perfectly fine and natural in this case, since a potential educated Bengali contributor to the Bengali wikipedia would understand the message in either languages. I would hazard a guess that other than some extremely nitpicky individual, hardly anyone would complain about it and would just move along with the flow. --Zaheen 21:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Or, an American who went to the site, saw a must-read note in English, and found it went somewhere he couldn't read. :) Not everyone who journeys over to bn speaks or understands Bengali, I thought maybe it was leading to the English embassy there or some sort. Anyway, thank you for your responses. --Golbez 21:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
No probs. I used to like to discuss about these things. For some reason I don't anymore. Forgive me if I came across a little crass. --Zaheen 21:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About Indo-Iranian languages template

First of all, I believe that there should be a separate Indo-Aryan template. The current Indo-Iranian one is becoming too huge.

Secondly, I've seen that you've added a lot of languages under "dialects" and similar headings. As far as Hindi and Urdu are concerned, it is all a complex debate. For example, you've not kept Bhojpuri as a dialect of Hindi because it is an Eastern I-A, and not acceptable to linguists. But then how can Dakhni, which is Southern be a dialect of Urdu? Even if it is, then why not of Hindi? So it seems that you are partly giving importance to linguistics and partly to sociological aspects. We need to get to a consistent solution. Maquahuitltalk! 15:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with having a separate template for I-A.
About Dakhni, I went by the description on its page, which says "Dakhni, also known as Dakkhani, Deccani (Urdu: دکنی), is a dialect of the Urdu language, was spoken in the Deccan region of southern India, centered on the cities of Hyderabad, Bangalore, and Chennai." --Zaheen (talk) 00:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I just checked up on Ethnologue, and it classifies Dakhni as a dialect of Urdu here. --Zaheen (talk) 00:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

It is as much of a dialect of Urdu as of Hindi. Several web references would call it as "Dakhini Hindi". I suggest that the better way would be to give importance to linguistics and not to sociological aspects of language in India, just like you've done for Bhojpuri and others. Maquahuitltalk! 07:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, Ethnologue is not just a web reference, it is the de facto standard linguistic reference (on the web and in print) when it comes to classification of languages. If they have classified Dakhni as a dialect of Urdu and Bhojpuri as a separate Eastern I-A language, I am not going to make up my own classifications on top of that. Can you point me to other credible web references that consider Dakhni a dialect of Hindi?--Zaheen (talk) 18:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Ethnologue is surely a good reference, but by and large wikipedia has not blindly followed any single source but consulted several analyses and treatments of a particular case, especially when it comes to complex language-dialect debates like this. Search for DakhiniHindi and Urdu, you'll get references of both since the only reason that it could be associated with Urdu is because of its association with Muslims in South India and the usage of Perso-Arabic script. But otherwise, people have treated it as related to both(even though the "both",i.e. Hindi and Urdu themselves might be different in a funny way).
My suggestion is- just mention Dakhini or for that matter any other language, as such, in this template in order to avoid slight biased-ness. If a language or dialect is considered associated to another, we can mention that in the relevant personal template of that language. Maquahuitltalk! 20:11, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
The usage of Perso-Arabic script puts Dakhni in a similar class with Urdu and instantly differentiates it from Hindi, which is written in Devanagari script. We both know that Urdu and Hindi are syntactically almost the same language. The main difference between Hindi and Urdu (or some regional variety of Urdu like Dakhni) is that Urdu is written in the Perso-Arabic script and regularly uses many words of Persian and Arabic origin. I don't know what specific criteria Ethnologue used to determine that Dakhni is a dialect of Urdu, but it seems ok to me. The term dialect does not denote inferiority, if that's what you are worried about. A dialect basically means a regional variety. What is the Urdu language in North India and in Pakistan has a counterpart in South India called Dakhni, which is based mostly around Hyderabad. But it is also true that between Urdu and Dakhni, Urdu at present is clearly the more prominent literary language of the two, and it has official status in a sovereign country. So it makes sense to consider Dakhni as a dialect of Urdu.
I tried to trace the history of both Dakhni and Urdu and it seems their histories are tied together. I found the following links interesting:
They all seem to indicate that Dakhni evolved earlier than Urdu in South India as some kind of a literary language (a proto-Urdu language if you will), but then when Aurangazeb conquered the South, Urdu gained prominence with its association with Delhi, the administrative center of the Mughal empire. Many Dakhni poets and writers at the time switched over to Urdu as it had more prestige in the North-dominated India, Dakhni gradually lost it status as a premier literary language and is now considered a dialect, a spoken regional variety of Urdu. I have found many links, including Ethnologue and Encyclopedia Britannica, that consider Dakhni a dialect of Urdu.
As for your suggestion of treating all dialects as separate languages, what is the basis of doing so? --Zaheen (talk) 00:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I don't know how you define 'dialect' at the first place. My first motivation was that Dakhani belongs to Southern I-A, while Khariboli belongs to Central I-A. Anyway, even after that, I think that giving the names of languages and then their "dialects" within brackets(it's there for Bengali also) makes the template a little less crisp. The details about some dialects being different belongs to the personal templates of the those individual languages. It's not just about Hindi or Urdu- for example, Chittagongian and Sylheti might be fringe dialects in Bengali, but it comes to me only after I come within the domain of Bengali. Therefore, it is well and good to mention them in the template for Bengali, but mentioning them in the Indo-Iranian template itself is unwanted detail(well in my eyes it is perhaps).
However, if you think I am being unnecessary fussy, then this will be my last post on this issue. :)Maquahuitltalk! 11:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More on Dakhni as a dialect of Urdu

The Indo-Aryan Languages (2003) edited by George Cardona and Dhanesh Jain has a chapter on Urdu, written by Ruth Laila Schimdt, a linguist of the language. Here's the relevant excerpt (from p. 289) in which she claims Dakhni as a dialect of Urdu (emphasis mine):

“ Under the Delhi Sultanate (AD 1211 to 1504), the Zaban-e-Dehlavi or Khari Boli was carried throughout most of India with the Muslim army and their attached Hindu traders, as well as by Sufi mystics and preachers, establishing it as a lingua franca. In AD 1327, Panjabi-influenced Khari Boli was transplanted to the south of India along with the migration of the inhabitants of Delhi to Aurangabad in the Deccan, at the order of Sultan Muhammad bin Tughlaq. In the fifteenth century it became a literary language, known as Dakhani, Hindavi, Hindi, or Dehlavi in the Deccan kingdoms of Golkunda and Bijapur. Aside from a few specifically Panjabi features, Dakhani is an archaic form of Urdu showing strong affinities to the modern spoken form of Urdu of the artisans of Old Delhi, which is also known as Karkhandari Urdu. Both Karkhandari Urdu and Old Dakhani show a number of phonological and grammatical similarities which have disappeared from modern Urdu and Hindi.

Dakhani is a distinct dialect of Urdu, not at present used for literary purposes...

 ”

[edit] Bengali language FAR

Bengali language has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 03:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you have sources for referncing Bengali language? I guess SameerKhan has major sources. Unfortunately, Shmitra is also not active in wikipedia right now. Any plans?--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)