Talk:Yuriy Norshteyn

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Contents

[edit] Article Name Change

What do you guys think - should the article use "Yuri Norstein" or "Yuriy Norshteyn"? IMDB uses the latter, and it is much closer to how his name sounds in Russian. Esn 02:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't object, but what is the reason his name was spelled "norstein" in the first place?—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 12:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Good question. I don't really know, but I'd wager there's a good chance that it was simply how his name was first spelled in the West by some ignorant reporters who didn't know how to read Russian very well. Or by some Russians who didn't know how the English letters would sound (plenty of those out there as well). It's become the dominant spelling in the English-language press since then, but really I wish it hadn't, and it seems like this is now beginning to change (IMDB doesn't spell his name that way anymore, although they used to). Does anyone know how to change the name of the article, by any chance? I know that typing "Yuriy Norshteyn" into wiki's search box will currently redirect to this article - is there a way to change that so it's the other way around? Esn 17:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I did some research, and it looks like both spellings are used interchangeably. So, in the spirit of the WP:RUS policy, I'm moving this article to its new home. If there are any complaints, we'll deal with them as they surface.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 18:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed something from that link - "They may be simplified, more familiar-looking, or easier to pronounce for English-speakers, e.g., Gorbachyov→Gorbachev, Kray→Krai, Khrushchyov→Khruschev, Yuriy→Yuri." So should it be Yuri Norshteyn then? Or do we just keep it as is? Esn 01:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Norshteyn's fame in the English-speaking world is that of a less degree than Gorbachev's or Dostoevsky's. As such, it is preferrable to stick with a consistent romanization scheme. Using "Yuri" instead of "Yuriy" would be OK even within current policy, however; but it does not change much in the big picture anyway. By the way, if you are interested in problems surrounding transliteration of Russian names in Wikipedia, come check out WP:CYR—a thinktank of a possible new policy. We could sure you a fresh pair of eyes and a new opinion.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 12:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Alright, seems reasonable. Let's keep "Yuriy Norshteyn". I'm a bit new to wikipedia, though - I don't even know how to move an article to a new name. :P But I'll check it out. Esn 21:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Ooh, missed this discussion. I'm actually the person who moved his IMDb page to "Yuriy Norshteyn" from "Yuri Norstein". But that was on the basis of IMDb's clear and inflexible transliteration rules. Wikipedia's transliteration rules are more flexible (Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian), and specifically permit the use of conventional names, and specifically the use of "Yuri" instead of "Yuriy".
And the conventional transliteration is "Yuri Norstein" — it's by far the most dominant form among English writers, and I've never seen it written any other way in print. As for pronunciation — if "Norstein" was pronounced as if it were a Germanic name (which it seems to be), then it would be pronounced "norshtine" — is that correct?. So I didn't move the article, preferring to use his most common name. However, it doesn't really matter — this form is a valid Wikipedia transliteration, and it has a redirect from the conventional form. --KJBracey 07:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I do not know if his last name was originally Germanic, but in Russia it is NOT pronounced "Norshtine" - the correct Russian pronounciation is "Norshteyn" (Nor-shteh-yn, emphasis on the "eh". And the "y" is not an "i" - it is pronounced the same as the "y" in "Yuriy"). Didn't Ëzhiki say that he was the one who moved this article? Now I'm all confused... (EDIT: whoops, you're the one who moved the IMDB article... sorry, didn't see that) anyway, "Norstein" (Nors-taa-een) when pronounced by an English speaker does not resemble the correct Russian pronounciation at all, so I think it would be nice to start a mission to change the dominant English spelling to "Norshteyn", which is just as easy for English-speakers to pronounce. That IMDB did this first is an added bonus, of course. :D I imagine it's very annoying for anybody to have your name so commonly mispronounced by foreigners when they could very easily have said it correctly. Esn 10:25, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Wow, a real IMDB person among us! So, that site is not run by evil robots after all :) Anyway, unless that's a corporate secret, would you (KJBracey) mind sharing the IMDB transliteration policy with me? It's just a matter of my personal curiosity though; not really related to this discussion. If you are not in the position of giving that information out, I would understand, but if you can, could you email it to me (through wikimail)? If that's too much to ask, I'd also understand. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 18:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm just an IMDb user, who's contributed quite a lot. Any registered IMDb user can update info, but it has to be approved by admins. The transliteration rules are at [1]. They were simplified maybe a year ago, and it must be said that the actual current data doesn't always comply with that table. --KJBracey 19:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I never knew that IMDB users could do anything of that sort, but then I never considered registering there. Thanks for the link though; I suspected that they just adopted a no-frills version of BGN/PCGN and now I have confirmation.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 06:07, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SHAR Studio - request for information

After the 1990s, it seems that few details of Yuriy's life are known. I only just found out that he founded a studio in 1993, a fact that none of the English-language articles on him have mentioned! Does anyone have any more info about what Norshteyn has been up to lately, or of his involvement with this school/studio? Here are a few usefull links that I found:

http://university.imdb.com/company/co0017375/

http://www.awn.com/stuttgart_anifest/shar.html

Apparently, Aleksandr Petrov's "The Mermaid" was made in SHAR Studio... sounds like a topic for a new article, maybe. But most of the links about SHAR that I have found do not mention Norshteyn anywhere in them, so any information that anyone has on what he's been doing lately would be quite useful. Esn 10:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News on the status of The Overcoat

I had the chance to speak to two people at the Ottawa International Animation Festival this weekend who told me something of The Overcoat's current status.

The first was Kihachiro Kawamoto, who was there for the Canadian premiere of his film The Book of the Dead. Kawamoto has worked with Norshteyn a few times in the past few years and seems to be very respectfull of him - he was the director of 2003's Winter Days, and he also invited Norshteyn to animate a scene in his latest film as a "guest animator". He told me (largely through a translator, as English is a bit difficult for him) that Toshio Suzuki, the president and chief producer of Studio Ghibli, is currently funding Norshteyn's work. The catch, he said, was that in order to get the funding, Norshteyn had to give Suzuki a concrete date for when he would finish the film, and apparently he told him that he would have it done by the end of 2007. Kawamoto thinks that it's not very likely that he'll actually finish the film - indeed Norshteyn has always put his artwork ahead of any deadlines...

The other person was Russian animator Konstantin Bronzit, who was present for a retrospective of his work at the festival (his short films are hilarious, by the way). He told me that he personally knows Norshteyn - indeed, it seems that most animators in Russia know each other - and believes that nearly an hour of The Overcoat is done right now and that it will be released relatively soon. However, he found it very funny when I told him of the "end of 2007" date. Besides that, he told me that Norshteyn is living relatively well nowadays and gets income from appearances and lectures. Oh, and also that Norshteyn, Fyodor Khitruk, Andrey Khryanovsky, and Edward Nazarov are no longer involved with SHAR School and Studio (see topic above) - he didn't want to talk about it much and told me that it's a bit of a nasty story. It would be interesting to know the story for the sake of this article, though, so if anyone anyone knows...

Anyway, there you have it. Rather encouraging news to hear that the film might be released within a few years or so - I'd been afraid that I might never see it. Let us hope that Suzuki is forgiving of missed deadlines.

Obviously this information cannot be included in this article as it is taken from primary sources and is not independently verifiable, but I thought I'd post it here anyway, just in case anybody happens to find an acceptable-for-wikipedia secondary source that would confirm it. Maybe there's some interview where Suzuki mentions that he's funding Norshteyn's work - who knows? I can't read Japanese... -Esn 14:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

A few interesting quotes by Norshteyn, from this interview:

Ведь что ни делай, все равно к мультипликации будут относиться как к дебильному ребенку, который вдруг, например, заговорил. "Так ты еще и разговаривать умеешь?! Что же ты раньше молчал?" А до этого все было хорошо, и суп был теплый.

English:
After all, whatever you do, still everyone will treat animation like a retarded child who, for example, begins to talk. "Oh, so you can even talk?! Why were you so quiet before, then?" Yet before that moment everything was good, and the soup was warm.

Кинематограф не должно интересовать то, что подробно описано, он должен обращаться к тому, что пропущено, к тому, что предполагается, но не воплощено в слове. Разрыв в тексте - самое подробное, самое живое место для кино.

English (talking about literary adaptations):
The cinematographer should not be interested in that which is described in detail - he should look to that which is skipped, to that which is implied but is not explicitly written. The break in the text is the most promising, the most alive place for cinema.

Esn 00:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norshteyn as actor?

Isn't this odd... his name seems to be in the "Japanese cast"... Esn 07:30, 16 February 2007 (UTC)