Talk:Yoweri Museveni

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To-do list for Yoweri Museveni:	edit · history · watch · refresh
Comb through to find sources for unreferenced claims. If no sources can be found then delete. Ensure article reads like a biography and not a general history (this is difficult given the personalistic regime - the history of Uganda since 1986 is inextricably intwined with Museveni) Raise prominence of northern situation throughout article. After all, its one of the worst humanitarian disasters in the world. Qualify northern situation in introduction. Completely rewrite the Luwero Triangle section. Expanded section on Nairobi peace agreement 1985. Post-1986 democratisation process: resistance councils etc. 1995 constitution. Use term NRM/A to refer to Museveni's movement, pre-1986 in particular. Mention, in relation to symobolic aid cuts, that at least 40% of Uganda's budget comes from donors. Explain 1980 elections better: who were the main parties, were they new or historical, what were their prospects, which ethnic groups were their base? References should be in Wikipedia:Footnote3 format This story is great! Has to go in. Adds colour. His restoration of the traditional regional monarchies from 1993 onward. IMF structural adjustment Elections on a non-party basis to Constituent Assembly in March 1994 Supreme court stuff [1] Correct the biographical note that describes Museveni as being an ["unreconstructed Marxist" in 1967; the Wikipedia definition describes unreconstructed Marxism as refering to "Marxists who do not accommodate themselves to the fact that the Cold War was lost by the former Soviet Union." Since, in 1967, the Soviet Union had not yet been defeated, it is absurd to say that Museveni was an "unreconstructed Marxist". So either this entry or the entry on unreconstructed Marxism is wrong and needs to be changed. I don't know enough about either to do so, but someone must.
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Archives
6 September 2003–30 July 2005

Contents 1 Stereotypes Stink 2 Push for FA status 3 A re-assessment of Museveni 4 Looking great! 5 Bamboo 6 Regional Conflict 7 HIV/AIDS 8 WOW! That's a damn good article. 9 Page was Screwed some while back! 10 Uganda to pay? 11 Political pluralism etc. 12 More Info about mistreatments of Opposition Leader 13 LGBT rights opposition 14 2005 Constitutional change 15 Ban on same-sex marriage

[edit] Stereotypes Stink

From the top summary:

His presidency has been marred, however, by involvement in civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and other Great Lakes region conflicts. Rebellion in the north of Uganda continues to perpetuate one of the world's worst humanitarian emergencies. Recent developments, including the abolition of Presidential term limits before the 2006 elections and the harassment of democratic opposition, have attracted concern from domestic commentators and the international community.

None of the above is true. I guess that's what happens when people who have pre-conceived ideas are the main contributors. And it is also why I don't generally trust this kind of articles. Uganda was in the Congo when there were rebels in the Congo. There still are some. The UN knows them better than I do. There was no involvement in any civil war. Indeed, a war is going on there, and Uganda has not been in the Congo for years, because the main point of going there was accomplished.

Rebellion in the North. Well, ditto on this one. I don't know, however, why what some deranged pseudo-religious gang does in its home region should reflect on Museveni.

"Abolition of term limits." Yet another thing Americans always get wrong. In Uganda, nobody can abolish anything. The parliament does. The parliament amended the law relating to term limits - Museveni did not abolish them. And isn't it sad how you all generally believe this stuff? Yet again, I my reservations about trusting Wikipedia ossify.

Harrasment of democratic opposition. I am afraid, the Ugandan opposition knows this is what people believe, so it just declares it is being harassed, and that ends up Wikipedia. Counter claims are laughed at. So, on this, I will say nothing.

Now, even though I am not exactly a fan of Museveni, I am going to take issue with misrepresentations of Uganda and Africa in general on Wikipedia and the Western media. Many wrong stereotypes. I will not change the pages - merely point issues out, so that I am not called a vandal.

Forgot to sign, but I see the autosign. :o) Revence27 12:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Revence27 (talk • contribs) 12:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC) 

Firstly, with regard to intervention in the Congo, try reading Explaining Ugandan intervention in Congo: evidence and interpretations, John F. Clark, The Journal of Modern African Studies, Vol. 39, pp. 267–268, 2001. This examines the various possible factors in the move across the border, but I don't think anyone can seriously claim that insurgents were the only reason. Please don't start on the fact that Clark isn't African - we have sourced other references including Ugandan academics and the media.

With regard to the LRA, why shouldn't the governments failure to get a handle on this reflect on the president? Isn't Acholiland in Uganda? Aren't the victims of the LRA Ugandan citizens and entitled to protection from violence? I can't imagine Museveni putting up with this in Kampala, or somewhere strategically important.

Third term... yes the parliament voted the required changes through. But parliament is controlled by The Movement, which was Museveni's creation. You may disagree.

As for the rest, it basically reads: "you're all Westerners and are therefore biased". This falls down on both counts. I may very well say of other editors that they're partisan Africans and are therefore biased. But I don't because I judge people on their actual work rather than making sweeping generalisations.

I don't mean to be rude, but you probably can't source any of your claims through in their current form Wikipedia:Verifiability TreveX^talk 02:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Push for FA status

Are we nearing the home straight in this article's journey to featured article status? I certainly hope so! Just take a look at where this article was in March. TreveX^talk 19:12, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

A few days ago, I was thinking of how it had expanded and wondering what would need to be done to tighten it up before Wikipedia:Peer review. I have two main concerns: (1) as the "to do" you created suggests, the verification of info from Bamboo's data dump and (2) the article described events often a step removed from the actual man, e.g. "Uganda invaded the DRC", which makes it read as one of the History of Uganda pages rather than a biography, at times. Fixing the two issues can probably be done simultaneously, but it looks to me like there is still a significant amount of work left.

It could also do with a bit more color. There is also very little of the "padding" that might make its way in if a large amount of Ugandans were editing - no mention of ridiculous number of cows given to Museveni's daughter for her dowry back in 2000, for example. Some opposition politicans have criticized him much more than the foreign nations, and more domestic content would help change the clear "looking in from outside" tone of the article. - BanyanTree 21:56, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

You may well have seen these papers when you were doing your LRA thesis, but this website has loads of detailed background through to the mid-1990s. It's mostly African scholars. I agree with your comment that it does read like a general history at times. Museveni is very fond of his cows and, according to one Ugandan I spoke to, likes to pitch a marquee on his farm at night and burn cow dung so all the cows gather round. Awwww! TreveX^talk 22:30, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I've also ordered Sowing the mustard seed. Have you got it? Should sort out the childhood stuff. TreveX^talk 22:40, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi TreveX, I had used those pages but had forgot about them. If you are getting the autobiography, then that should help tremendously with the early sections. I'll definitely up for a go at it. I haven't been in a good FA push in forever.  :) - BanyanTree 23:47, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A re-assessment of Museveni

Hello there, I had not taken a look at the Museveni page for several weeks because I was despairing of the typically naive way the western world and its people view Africa.

In reading the latest version of the Museveni Wikipedia account, I notice that you have listed many of the latest developments in Uganda and clearly Museveni is no longer being viewed by the West in quite the lofty terms we took for granted in the 1990s.

All of which leads me to ask why the photo caption right at the beginning of the article on him still makes mention of him being a "new breed"of African leaders, long after this has become embarassingly inaccurate and his thirst for power are now apparent to all. Bamboo {signature added by TreveX^talk 23:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)}

Hi Bamboo, I'm glad you find this version more NPOV. TreveX has been doing A LOT of work on it recently. Regarding the photo caption, not that the "new generation" links to the article New generation of African leaders, which is not very complimentary. Regards, BanyanTree 13:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Hope this caption is a little more to everyone's liking? I think the past-tense nature of this perspective comes accross more strongly now. TreveX^talk 23:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Looking great!

I would support this article for featured status, you've done a wonderful job. Are their still issues w pro and anti POV's, particularly regarding scandal claims? When I last edited it (back in april or something) that was a serious issue. Sam Spade 11:54, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

No, it's calmed down now. The contributions of certain users was very useful, but with their particular POV some of these claims needed verifying, this process has largely been completed. Glad to know you like the article. Cheers! TreveX^talk 12:04, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

well done - Xed

Very good article indeed. I have always puzzled why Uganda was all over its neighbours. After reading this article, all those stories made sense. The guy was returning a favour for the help he got when rising up.

Another thing that finally sunk in was the root of the problem can be traced back to how Britian configured the country. That divide and conquer stategy was good for them, but it has really costed a lot oflife for way too long. See paragraph below for what I mean.

The power base of Amin and Obote were very different, leading to a significant ethnic and regional aspect to the resulting conflict. Obote was from the Lango ethnic group of the central north, while Amin was a Kakwa from the northwestern corner of the country. The British colonial government had organized the colony's internal politics so that the Lango and their Luo kinsmen dominated the national military, while people from southern parts of the country were active in business. This situation endured until the coup, when Amin filled the top positions of government with Kakwa and Lugbara and violently repressed the Lango and their Acholi allies

[edit] Bamboo

Hello there, this is Bamboo.

I see that you are moving to confirming the Museveni article as a complete document, thoroughly researched and complete. How unfortunate!

In a few weeks' time, thais page on Museveni will make a laughing stock of Wikipedia because the Ugandan public has obtained a copy of a document on Museveni that sets him out in full relief.

You might want to look at it before you certify the page. Please send me an e-mail to get a copy of it. The address is: june132600@yahoo.com

I assure you, you will appreciate the information.

Many thanks. Contribution by User:Bamboo

Bamboo, This has already been recognized as a Wikipedia:Featured article as stated at the top of the page. Please make new edits at the bottom of the page and sign with four tildes ~~~~. Thanks, BanyanTree 18:01, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Regional Conflict

"Preceding the Rwandan Genocide, the new Rwandan government felt threatened by the presence (across the Rwandan border in Congo - known then as Zaïre) of former Rwandan soldiers (including Banyamulenge rebels) and members of the previous regime. These soldiers were aided by Mobutu Sese Seko – leading Rwanda (with the aid of Museveni) and Laurent Kabila's rebels to subsequently take power in Congo."

This paragraph is confusing. Wouldn't the "new Rwandan government" be after the Rwandan Genocide? I was going to change "preceding" to "after", but wasn't sure which Rwandan government was being referred to. If the Rwandese Patriotic Front was meant, they wouldn't be fighting the Banyamulenge, who were their allies.170.140.74.93 06:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I fixed it myself, feel free to revert if it really was talking about the pre-genocide government170.140.74.93 06:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] HIV/AIDS

There was an article recently in the Economist which argued that the Ugandan response to HIV/AIDs wasn't as good as had been thought; that in fact one the primary reasons for the decrease in infection rates/number of infected was simply that those infected have been dying in large numbers.

Toby Douglass 13:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WOW! That's a damn good article.

Wow, I just wanted to say that all of those who contributed to this article did a hellova job. I never came across this article before it was featured, but damn did it ever deserve it. This is probably one of the best biographical articles I've ever read. Congrats on the feature, guys and gals. 70.48.111.76 14:15, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Great work! Congratulations to everybody who contributed to it. Extraordinary Machine 00:09, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed 150%. Josh 10:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page was Screwed some while back!

It was written Horshit by some MM.

[edit] Uganda to pay?

[2] [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xed (talk • contribs) 21:42, 19 December 2005

Thanks. That news has been added to Current events in Africa, and will shortly be added to this article. --Ezeu 00:36, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Political pluralism etc.

The article said:

Recent restrictions on political pluralism and moves to scrap constitutional limits on presidential terms have attracted concern from domestic commentators and the international community.

I have changed this. There are still some concerns, but the above statement does not reflect the current situation. Multipartyism has been OKed after a referendum. The removal of presidential terms was decided upon by Parliament (after a controversial campaign). But less I be acused of POV, let me also say that a problem today is that Museveni has decided to run for re-election against his promise during the last presidential elections, and that he seems to be using the state apparatus, the army and covert groups [4] to strong-arm himself to another term, including the arrest of his rival, and subduing the media [5] etc.--Ezeu 12:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More Info about mistreatments of Opposition Leader

This a great article but I believe more should be written to emphasize the erosion of democratic space under Museveni in the past couple of years especially when it comes to his mistreatment of Opposition Leaders like Kizza Besigye, who are jailed on what International observers [6] have termed to be frivolous grounds --Falconsgladiator 05:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LGBT rights opposition

I added him to that category. If anyone wants to see the source: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5326930.stm source

[edit] 2005 Constitutional change

The article doesn't explicitely state that the constitution was ever changed to allow a third presidential term, though it is indicated indirectly throught the citation of the Norwegian ambassador. The movement for the amendment is described, but not the fact that it actually happened. Also: How did it change? Was the limitation of presidential terms removed or simply extended to three terms? When? This part of the article is a bit foggy... --V79 01:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ban on same-sex marriage

This section has been deleted repeatedly, with comments to the effect that "LGBT rights are irrelevant in the Republic of Uganda".[7] It appears well-sourced and neutral. I have no opinion of whether this topic is relevant to this biography. Does anyone think it belongs here, should be moved to LGBT rights in Uganda, or should be deleted? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:49, 16 April 2008 (UTC)