Talk:Yoruba language

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Contents 1 Spelling Yorùbá vs Yoruba 2 tables overlap 3 Yoruba wikipedia 4 Yoruba Rhotic 5 47 in Yoruba? 6 Removing Sentence on Benin influence 7 Prepositions 8 Abibitumikasa.com 9 Number of Yoruba speakers

[edit] Spelling Yorùbá vs Yoruba

This article uses the native spelling "Yorùbá" but I cannot find this as an English spelling in any of the major online dictionaries: AHD, Collins, Encarta, M-W. Could somebody add to the article explaining how this spelling relates to English, for instance, has Nigeria asked that people use this spelling even in English? If there is no evidence for this spelling, the article should be moved to the traditional English spelling without the native accents which indicate tones not used in the English pronunciation. — Hippietrail 08:22, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I concur. Yoruba is the most frequent spelling. Just like we don't write 'Eʋe language' but Ewe language. — mark ✎ 08:25, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I also concur. Out of the two "Yoruba" makes more sense since the ú and à aren't read differently in English.---moyogo 13:12, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

I've moved it. Plenty of space in the article to point out the real pronunciation. — mark ✎ 15:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] tables overlap

In my browser the table with consonants and the one with the general information overlap rather uglily. Is there no way of fixing this? David 14:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

There is one that I know of: expanding the article. I will take care of it. — mark ✎ 17:22, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, thanks. It's okay right now. David 10:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yoruba wikipedia

To any native speakers of Yoruba reading this: please consider starting up the Yoruba Wikipedia. I think there is a lot of potential there. If you need any help, contact me; I was granted sysop rights there so I can help out with deleting pages, moving things, etc. — mark ✎ 09:51, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yoruba Rhotic

The consonant table has a character under "alveolar approximant;" however, the symbol in this position is that of an alveolar flap. Which is the correct sound? GoodSirJava 07:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Good point. The flap [ɾ] is listed in Bamgbose's 1966 grammar; in southwestern dialects (Lagos etc.) you often hear [ɹ], so I suspect this is simply regional variation. I've added a clarifying remark. Of course, technically, [ɾ] should have it's own row in the table according to manner of articulation, but I've collapsed this row into the approximants to make the table a little neater. — mark ✎ 09:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I notice the article now states "The voiceless plosives /t/ and /k/ are slightly aspirated; in some Yoruba varieties, /t/ and /d/ are more dental. The rhotic consonant is realized as a flap ([ɾ]), or in some varieties (notably Lagos Yoruba) as the velar approximant [ɹ]." But are we talking about [ɹ], or are we talking about a velar approximant? Because [ɹ] is not velar, it's dental/alveolar/postalveolar. QuartierLatin1968 21:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

We're talking about [ɹ], and it should read postalveolar, as it does now. Thanks for pointing it out! — mark ✎ 07:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 47 in Yoruba?

Can someone please tell me how to say 47 in Yoruba? I am collecting that number and I have reasons to think that the version I got is wrong. Please help... it would be nice if you could answer on my talk page. — N-true 13:39, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The Yoruba number system is notoriously complex, so your best bet would be to ask a native speaker. But here's what Sachnine (1997) gives: 47 = 7 + 20 x 2 = méje.lé.ní.ogún.èjì (seven.on.to.twenty.two). In normal Yoruba speech, this would be rendered as méjelélógójì, i.e. the words are run together. What form do you have? — mark ✎ 14:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I had mẹtadiladọta, where the accents are missing and which (I think) means actually 3 less than 50. There don't happen to be any dots below the o or e in the version of yours? — N-true 15:46, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

No, seven (méje), twenty (ogún) and two (èjì) all are words without dots. Your version is an archaic one, also given by Abraham (1958:xxxv), but it looks like there are some typos in there. You are right that it means three less than 50; note that 50 is actually expressed as 10 less than 20x3 here (literally ten removed from (àádí) twenty (ogún) times (ò̩) three (è̩ta)). Properly spelled and accented, your older version looks like this: è̩tadíló̩gó̩ta. — mark ✎ 17:37, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing Sentence on Benin influence

I removed the sentence "North-West Yoruba is historically a part of the benin empire". I assume that the author meant the Oyo empire, since Benin influence was restricted to eastern sectors, but I'm not clear on why that would be useful in this linguistic context anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Osomalo (talk • contribs)

Yes, that's a good change. — mark ✎ 07:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prepositions

"There are two ‘prepositions’: ní ‘on, at, in’ and sí ‘onto, towards’. " How does Yoruba express movement "from"?/Nicke L 23:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Good question... —Nightstallion (?) 16:37, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abibitumikasa.com

Recently, the site Abibitumikasa.com was added to the external links a few times, but swiftly removed for being political and POV. Now, the site is definitely highly political, but that in itself wouldn't necessarily be a reason to remove it, if it offered useful info on the Yoruba language in manners specified in Wikipedia:External links. However, I have checked the YorubaResources board of the site thoroughly, and I have found that it is mainly a collection of materials found elsewhere on the web (including, even, a verbatim copy of Wikipedia's own entry on Yoruba). Copyright problems aside, I do not think this site contains "neutral and accurate material not already in the article". Therefore, I don't see the added value and support its removal. — mark ✎ 11:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Number of Yoruba speakers

While the 'Yoruba people' article lists up to 44 million Yorubas in Nigeria alone, this articles says there are only 22 million speakers of the language? Why the discrepancy? I think that the number of Yorubas is inflated. I lived in Nigeria for my first sixteen years and doubt that Yorubas make up one-third of Nigeria's population. In any case, the number of Yoruba speakers should be higher than the number of Yorubas in Nigeria since Yoruba speakers exist in Benin and Togo as well as this article states. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.146.173.192 (talk) 07:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

There is this trend for anonymous editors to come along and inflate the population estimates. That's where the 40 million in Yoruba people comes from; I have now reverted it. 22 million is much more realistic and it is based on reliable sources. — mark ✎ 08:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)