Talk:Yorkshire colloquialisms

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[edit] Clarification of definitions

I think that the groupings for West Riding could be better. First off, the West Riding included large parts of the Dales and the area around Goole. Also, the West-South boundary doesn't translate well to dialect. For example, there are more similarities between Wakefield and Barnsley than between Barnsley and Doncaster. This isn't so surprising, when you consider how much easier it is to get to Wakefield than to get to Doncaster, when going from Barnsley.

Is the word "the" really absent? In much of Yorkshire it is present as a glottal stop and a change in emphasis in the surrounding words - see Definite article reduction for more details.BaseTurnComplete 21:48, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, a lot of people drop "the" from sentences. "Put milk in fridge" "Was only talking about that other day". Non Yorkshire people would expect "t'" to replace "the", but it doesn't at all.
I'm a Yorkshireman, "the" was present as a weak glottal stop and a change in the emphasis in the surrounding words "when I were a lad afore I learned to speak all poncey Southern, like :-)"BaseTurnComplete 23:39, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Not entirely sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me! My accent's never been particularly strong due to neither of my parents being from Yorkshire but I definitely still drop "the" from sentences in my broader moments Orbtastic 17:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure about bairn and growler? I'm from Yorkshire and I've never heard Yorkshire people use bairn, I only ever heard people from the North East use it. Growler means vagina to me, not pork pie! Orbtastic

'The' is definitely replaced with a glottal stop /:/, it is not dropped completely and only rarely becomes 't'. I think this is only before a vowel - the 't' is pronounced in "t'other" but not in "t'pub".GordyB 20:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
"Bairn" was in frequent use by older folk when I during my youth in South Yorkshire (and I'm not that old) BaseTurnComplete 23:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
"Growler certainly is a Pork Pie to me - NEVER heard it to be meant as in your sense! (I'm Leeds born and bred).
Maybe it's a South vs. West Yorkshire thing...I've never heard it refer to pork pies and I actually work in Leeds with people born and bred in Leeds and Bradford...BTW, Bairn is without question a North East/Geordie term. I think it's got Anglo/Saxon and Viking origins and I don't doubt it's used outside the North East these days, but it's definitely not Yorkshire. Orbtastic 17:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm from Bradford (in France now though) and the only person I knew that said 'bairns' was from Sunderland. Slinky Puppet
Bairn is definitely not specific to Yorkshire; it's used in Darlington, Hartlepool and probably the rest of County Durham --Greg K Nicholson 08:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC) (Darlington/Hartlepool/York)
They say "bairn" in York, and that is the capital of Yorkshire, after all. 212.159.30.47 12:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
The B.B.C. Voices research has found "bairn" to be used in most of Yorkshire and no less than in the

North-East. It's going back on. Epa101 20:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Isn't "nowt" spelt "nought"?Paulgush 05:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen it written like that and I don't pronounce 'nothing' like 'nought' (if you get my drift). I some people would say something like 'It was all for nought' but I think that might refer to 'zero' rather than 'nothing'. Slinky Puppet 15:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
For sure the pronunciation is different. According the to Oxford English dictionary though, as I just found out, the standard spelling for "nowt" is naught, and the spelling of it's opposite, is aught. Check it out: Oxford English Dictionary, naught Paulgush 04:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Bab, to mean faeces or the act of excretion is a Yorkshire word I recently discovered is only remembered by people obove the age of around 30. It really desparatley needs adding to this list.

I always thought 'bab' was a childish word. I'm only 14 and am well aware of the word, however I wouldn't use it at my age and would think it more appropriate for an eight year old to use. I live in South-West Leeds. Jonwood1 18:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I've heard bab used in this sense by adults though not in particularly polite conversation. It was also used in The League Of Gentlemen as "I brought you some dock leaves in case you want that bab." League Of Gentlemen script

May be of some interest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3724110.stm http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/voices2005/glossary/glossary.shtml (which has bairn listed but note the article is North Yorkshire.... Orbtastic 22:26, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Bairn is commonly used around the Northallerton (North Yorks) area - it seems to be a north east word and i would say that the north end of North Yorks has a different accent completely - even between villages and local towns there are huge differences - personally "Yorkshirisms" dont exist in my opinion - people from Northallerton (North end of N Yorks) speak completely different to those at the Southern end of South Yorks so even in Yorkshire theres a massive difference in the way we speak depending on which county and which area your from. Oh and on a personal note one word that i dont get is the Yorkshire definition of "Chebs" - in Northallerton that would refer to a pair of breasts!! SiHudson 04:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

According to my book of dialect maps bairn is confined to the north east and areas of far north yorkshire plus in a real anomaly an area just round Barnsley.

  • My grandmother uses the word "bairn" frequently to refer to my cousins and I - "This bairn did very well on his exams this year, Jane," et cetera. She lives in the Kingston-upon-Hull area, and I'm fairly sure that she grew up near there. I'll see if I can find some sort of a source for it being used farther south. It could just be an anomaly. Ministry of Silly Walks 13:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Think article could start more authoritively as it mentions "thee/thou" etc being commonly used. Surely in 2007 these are only used by a sadly decreasing group of very old people and maybe a few more in the extreme rural areas of North Yorkshire.These areas the last redoubt of a mode of speech that was common to all English rural areas once upon a time.This can be seen when Thomas Hardy's characters (late 19th century)speak in the "thees" and "thous" of Dorset dialect.

Thee and Thou (or, actually "Tha", as in "tha-sen" was very commonly used when I was being dragged up in the area, and I'm certainly not "very old"! I know it caused confusion when I told a bunch of friends to "enjoy tha sens" as they were leaving halls at York Uni to go partying. "bairn" was also commonly used in the area in the '80s (round the Scunny region). The "dropped" t was, as has been noted, not actually dropped but replaced with a soft glottal. We also regularly used yon (not meaning 'one' as in the list) and yonder - as in "go ovver yon hill for t'watter", or "it's o'er yonder". Note the double "t" on "watter" too - rhymes with "hatter". 195.10.3.194 15:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Definitions

While I realize "wretch" may be more technically correct as a definition for "gip," (I'm not entirely sure, but this page combined with Yorkshire dialect and accent leads me to believe I am), if someone doesn't already know that the word relates to vomiting, they might think of it in the insulting sense of "wretch". I don't have the slightest clue how to approach fixing it, though, without some better understanding of the true meaning. 07:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Surely the article means 'retch' right? :-). I don't know which description is more accurate, I'm from East Yorkshire and I've never heard of 'gip' before {or growler, or laik or ...}. Personally I'm a bit dubious about including words for vomitting in this kind of dialect article as every sub-culture seems to have numerous, humorous, words and phrases for this 'activity' and I think it would be hard to determine if a word was widely used in the Yorkshire dialect and also not used in other places. But if enough local speakers think it makes sense ... Dave w74 00:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


Re; BAIRN I was told by my father (from South Yorkshire) that they had a van that used to come around called "Boots for Bairns", which gave donated boots to young (presumably shoeless) children. This was at the start of the depression, circa 1929.

Re; GIP I only ever heard "gip" being used to signify a feeling of being ill. "I´m feeling a bit gip today, tha knaws..."

I went to school in Wakefield, and "gip" always meant to vomit. That's why the name Gipton is so funny.
I currently go to school in South West Leeds and to gip definitely means to vomit around where I live. It even takes pride of place, generally, above the words 'to puke' and 'to barf'.

I found this on this site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/altogether/compton/old_days.shtml

"Boots for bairns, this was a handout from Leeds City Council for children whose parents were practically destitute, it was the same with Silverdale, a holiday camp for children in the same circumstances, but we were grateful for it."

andreasegde 16:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Luxioury--Crestville 09:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Re; MACK OFF Heard in Leeds/Huddersfield/Morley/Dewsbury - means big as in "a big mack-off truck" in the same way one might say "a big f*ck off truck". Unlike "f*ck off" it's used purely as a slightly comedic expression to indicate something's size however and cannot be used as an insult.--Cavie78 14:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose of Article

This article seems to be fairly new, but it looks like the basic idea is already fragmenting, as to whether there should be pages/links for different areas. This could lead to hundreds of links that may even sub-divide areas of towns and cities; "Used in Heckmondwike, but not in Batley", for example.

In my humble opinion, the dialect words used in various towns could be added as a link to a specific town; as extra information about that town´s cultural/daily life.

As most dialect words are hard to research - being, as they were, mostly used verbally and not written down - this page can only be a collection of words and phrases that we have all heard at one time or another (or maybe not :)) and still remember, before they are lost forever.

There tha´ goes - I´ve put me two-pennorth in... I´ve thrown me ´at in´t ring, etc...etc...

andreasegde 10:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Food

I've removed the food section in it's entirety, because, with respect, it was silly. There wasn't a single item on it that wasn't called by the same name throughout England, and probably the rest of Britain.

I have cut it down, because I got carried away with myself, and I don´t where I am now. Sorry. andreasegde 10:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Black pudding is not specifically a Yorkshire dish. I added the interwiki link so you can see for yourself, but it's a northern/scottish dish and a pan-European delicacy in general. Richardjames444 13:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yorkshireisms?

I suggest renaming the article to something sensible, because Yorkshireisms is not a word in the English language. TheMadBaron 18:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, does this article conflict with Yorkshire dialect and accent? Strikes me they might be the same thing.--Crestville 08:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think they might, but the dialect page deals with the syntax of Yorkshire, and this one deals with the vocabulary. I don´t agree with other one saying that there are two "Ts" in a sentence, though. "I´m off t´ t´pub", for example.

  • the double "t" is appropriate, in my recollection. It sounds almost like 'tut' but with the 'ut' somewhat swallowed. Richardjames444 13:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Indeed, that's exactly how my grandfather says the phrase in question! I've heard it both ways, though - Off t' t'pub and also just off t'pub. Ministry of Silly Walks 13:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


Nice one lads, (The Mad Baron and Crestville) - I´ll treat thee to a swift half one of these days, if I can find me wallet. Being left-handed and keeping it me right-hand pocket don´t help none...

andreasegde 10:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doncatraz

I don´t know who put it in, but I love the name "Doncatraz". I´m still laughing... andreasegde 10:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article claims widely-used words & phrases are specific to Yorkshire

Much of this article comprises words and phrases that are in use throughout the UK - or, at least, throughout the north of England. It is preposterous to claim them as Yorkshirisms. I have known many of these alleged Yorkshireisms from childhood, which I did not spend east of the Pennines! Indeed, many of the words listed are standard words of the English language, and are found in the Oxford Dictionary: no special "Yorkshire" meaning is being claimed for them in this article.

I suggest removing the following on the grounds that they are plain English words whose meaning will be found in the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, Third Edition: bogus, fathom, flags, gaffer, gob, lake/laik, nipper, pee, piddle, piddling, scrawny, sharp, thick, tripe.

I would suggest the following ought to be removed on the grounds that they are widely used outside Yorkshire: banger, brew, bugger, Ah-reet kid (twice) Baccy (used in a poem by that well known Yorkshireman, Rudyard Kipling), back passage, back end, bevvy, breadcake, broddle, buggered, bugger me, bugger, off, cack-handed, chuffed, chunter, cloth ears, crackers, crocodile tears, dawn chorus, folk, gang (surely this is a Scots word), gawp, ginnel, gip, gobby, goodies, growler, half-cocked, keks, lug/lughole, loaf, loony bin, love, means test, knackered, noggin, our kid, pillock, pit, scallywag, skint, snotty, snotty-nosed, spice, starved, them, twat, waccy-baccy, wedding tak-el, were, yonks.

Many of the other entries ought to be removed on the grounds that they are ordinary words or phrases spelled in such a way as to reflect Yorkshire pronunciation, viz.: all-us (this pronuniciation isn't even specific to Yorkshire either), barn-te'r (pron. of "bound to"), berth' day suit, coil-oil, me (= my), middin (= midden), owt, young-un.

Most of the phrases could also be removed on one of these grounds.

I'd agree with the above that many/most? of these words are just slang words from the whole of England.I'd remove: agen (does anyone outside the miniscule amount of RP speakers not say "agen"?) brew, bugger, ajar, back passage , barmy, benny, befuddled, bevvy (scouse originally i think), bint, bloomin, cack handed, chuck it, clodhopper, cloth ears, dollop, doss, duck, fellow, folk, gawp, gert (used in West Country), gob, gobby, gormless, lug, love/luv , mind, minge(actually I've only ever heard this in the South East), muggins, nipper, 'os (used in West Country), how do, piddling, pillock, poorly, rotter, scally (originally Scouse), scrawny, shite, smart, snotty, snotty nosed, sod all, summat (also used in West Country), ta (cant believe yorkshire claiming this!), yonder (West Country...think words like yonder are rural expressions rather than region specific), young un.Until I moved to Yorkshire a few years ago I lived in London area and my dad's family are from the West Country so I hope my comments can be useful for showing if the words are used in those two areas.

this also applies to a lot of phrases too

It's been said that how do we know they didnt start in Yorkshire but who knows where any words started and such a line of thinking would surely make the whole article pointless. Then we could start adding proper Yorkshireisms such as "gizzend" or "cal" (which rhymes with "pal"), words I have never heard used outside Yorkshire.

mallardview 05:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

And I've never heard them in Yorkshire.--Compo Simmonite 12:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Or me. I've removed a lot of the words that are in general use but I think that it is okay to include words also used in Lancashire, the North East, the North Midlands etc otherwise there'd be virtually no vocab at all. Just because Lancastrians also say 'tha' does not mean that it is not a Yorkshireism.GordyB 13:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


I´ve never heard them either.

The whole point is to list the words that we have heard in Yorkshire, and not to start wrangling about which are "true" Yorkshire words and which are not. Nobody can work that one out, after all... I have lived in various parts of Britain and if I sometimes used the words that you suggest taking out, I have had the experience that nobody had a clue what I was talking about.

Further point: Who says that these words were not exported to other places? There have been hundreds of plays, books, TV series and films that have used Yorkshire words. Where are you (NickBennett) from, by the way? Just a question... andreasegde 17:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Hod-on a tick... Nick suggests taking "luv-Love" out? I know cockneys say "mate/John", Nottingham people say "duck", Liverpudlians say "La", and Newcastle people say "man", but I have the firmest of convictions that saying "Alright love?" is definitely a Yorkshireism. I´m reet ticked off, tha´ knows... (laugh)... andreasegde 17:51, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought ", love?" signified Lancastrian. --AlmostReadytoFly 08:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

This insistence that "love" is only used in Yorkshire is one thing that in all my time living in the county I've never really understood...in London and the south east amongst working class people it has always been used too (and that includes "alright love?") although one difference in Yorkshire is ( especially among usually older men) one man can say it to another which is never done outside Yorkshire).

Nay lad, tha´s got it´ bakk-uds. I don´t know what Lancastrians say, but I´ll check to see what they do use. andreasegde 18:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

It´s not here: [1], and I sent a mail to here: [2]. Let´s wait and see, but I´ll bet thee a pint they don´t use it. andreasegde 18:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree with Nick above that many/most? of these words are just slang words from the whole of England.I'd remove: agen (does anyone outside the miniscule amount of RP speakers not say "agen"?) brew, bugger, ajar, back passage , barmy, benny, befuddled, bevvy (scouse originally i think), bint, bloomin, cack handed, chuck it, clodhopper, cloth ears, dollop, doss, duck, fellow, folk, gawp, gert (used in West Country), gob, gobby, gormless, lug, love/luv , mind, minge(actually I've only ever heard this in the South East), muggins, nipper, 'os (used in West Country), how do, piddling, pillock, poorly, rotter, scally (originally Scouse), scrawny, shite, smart, snotty, snotty nosed, sod all, summat (also used in West Country), ta (cant believe yorkshire claiming this!), yonder (West Country...think words like yonder are rural expressions rather than region specific), young un.Until I moved to Yorkshire a few years ago I lived in London area and my dad's family are from the West Country so I hope my comments can be useful for showing if the words are used in those two areas.

this also applies to a lot of phrases too eg pudding (bun) in the oven, brassnecked, aint got a clue, fair to middling, have 5 minutes, lets be having you, pig in a poke, up yours, daft as a brush ...and many of the others

finally surely putting things like "fer" for "for", "'e" for "he" and "mi" for "me" is a bit pointless as i can't think of anywhere in England where they don't use those

I have got a few words/phrases I've noticed however which are used in Yorkshire and you've missed and which are definitely not used in the south-east (Yorkshire usage first) "is it not?" for "isn't it?", "over your end" for "in your area", "bob down" to mean to go somewhere, "you're all right" for "I'm all right" as in the context when you dont need something when someone offers it (eg help packing in a shop etc) , "pot" for "saucepan", "bun" for "cake", "this aft" for "this afternoon", the use of "12 months" instead of "a year", "binman" and "bin lorry" for "dustman" and "dustcart","got the face on" for "got the dog on" "pot" for "plaster cast", "on a morning" for "in the morning", "they call him..." for "he's called". "love" from one man to another

It's been said that how do we know they didnt start in Yorkshire but who knows where any words started and such a line of thinking would surely make the whole article pointless.

Havinalook 20:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Beef and Benny

I have definitely heard "Beef" lots of times in American Mafia Movies, and "Benny" from that Motel TV series that was shot in Birmingham. "Youz gotta beef wit me ´bout dat?" andreasegde 16:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It doens't mean the same thing in Yorkshire - beef means specifically to cry, I've never heard it used in the same way outside Yorkshire nor have I heard 'throw a benny' used anywhere else to mean 'throw a paddy' so 've put them back in--Cavie78 18:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I think Benny is a reference to a type of drug given to psychotic patients.GordyB 21:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I went to school in Lancing, West Sussex and we all said "throw a benny" or "have a benny". Its definately not unique to Yorkshire of the North

I went to school in London area and "throw a benny" used very commonly...it actually originates from the Benny character on Crossroads so I've heard

[edit] Where the ducks play football

There are more verses to Ilkley Moor, but I'm wary of putting them in when the section needs cleanup anyway. There is a moral to this tale... Don't go a courtin' Mary Jane... AlmostReadytoFly 08:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn´t the ducks verse post-Monty Python? andreasegde 18:22, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The full verse is included on the On Ilkla Moor Baht'at page, so perhaps we don't need the verse at all, rather a summary of the song and iot's notability--Crestville 18:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sections

I think words and phrases should be split up into different headings. Any ideas? Alfred Long-Thornint´bottom 18:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yorkshireisms

A lot of these are just general UK English and not specific to Yorkshire at all. I'll have a prune tomorrow.GordyB 21:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The following words were taken out, most are just UK English slang, some are just Standard English and 'bogus' and 'barney' are American and Australian respectively. A banger, Baccy, barney, Berth´ day suit, Bogus, Bugger off, Bugger me, Clobber, Crackers, Crocodile tears, Dawn Chorus, Fathom, Loaf, Loony bin, Means Test, Money-spinner, Number Ones & Number Twos, Pee/piddle, Sharp, Skint, Smid-jin, Thick, Thingy-me-bob, Twat, Waccy-baccy, Weddin´ tak-el
I've given the benefit of the doubt to quite a few others which are dubious and left in a lot which are more Northernisms than Yorkshireisms. What this article really needs is somebody from the South to take out all the words that are meaningful to them.GordyB 12:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Why were the words you deleted not exported to the south? andreasegde 00:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by this, the words I deleted are words that I know to be widespread throughtout England. They are neither Yorkshire dialect nor Southern dialect, they are mostly just UK slang. Some words are simply Standard English and would be known to Australians and Americans as well.GordyB 21:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Purge of phrases. These in my view are not Yorkshireisms. The 'translation' is very often exactly the same as the phrase only in Standard Orthography.

A bunch a-fives, Ah-cud eet-an´ors, A piece a´cake, A reet gud do, As thick as two short planks, Black-as´ ace-a-spades, Bold-as-brass, Clobber-thee, Can´t fathom it, Don´t be daft, Ee´s not-reet-in´ ed, Feather in ´is cap, Furtha a-field, Get-thee skates on, Gi´ it some welly, Got out-ta wrong side a´bed, Got up at crack o´dawn, Head-in´t clouds, Hard lines, He knows which side his bread´s buttered, I can´t face it, I don´t mind if I do, It´ meks me-blud boy-el, I´ll have him, Not a-full-shilling, No´t mah cuppa-tea, Pull t´other leg, it´s got bells on, Pushin´ up´t daisys, Put a sock in-it, Put thy/thee foot darn, Sent darn, Six a-one an ´arf-a-dozen a´ t´other, Smallest room in´ t´house, Swingin´led, Tekkin´t mick, Ten-a-penny, Thar´s done-it nar, Think on, Thy´ll catch thee death a´co-ed, Thick-in´t head, Too right, Up to me neck in-it, Up yours!GordyB 22:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I repeat my previous point: What makes one think that these words were not exported to other parts of Britain? They must have originated somewhere. Where did they originate? That´s a puzzler...
  • Are you further suggesting that Yorkshire took on all the above (deleted) words and phrases wholesale from somewhere else?
  • Because one can buy Yorkshire beer throughout England, does that make it national, and not local?
  • I would readily defer to editors that have lived their whole lives (thus far) solely in Yorkshire (and I don´t mean myself, by the way.)
Who knows where words originate? At best you can find the earliest known usage of any particular phrase. The article is pretty much original research, claims should be sourced before being made. If somebody is going to claim that the phrase (for example) Six a-one an ´arf-a-dozen a´ t´other originates in Yorkshire then they would need to source that.
For me the definition of Yorkshire colliqualisms is how they differ from standard UK English and / or UK slang.GordyB 12:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Right about the original research, but the problem is that has anyone written a book about it? All I have found is old Norse words and the like. There are only a few options:
  • Delete all of it apart from the opening paragraphs (leaving one or two examples of sentences).
  • Leave it to the concensus to decide (which may take forever).
  • Allow everything in, because Yorkshire has differing dialects within itself.
Something has to be done, and soon, because editors will disagree until the end of time if nothing happens. andreasegde 15:18, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Technically what should be done is delete the lot and then add them back in from sources. Anybody could vandalise the article by adding words that don't really exist and none of us will ever delete them because none of us have a complete knowledge of Yorkshire dialect. There are several books on sale in various Tourist Informations such as 'Learn thysen Yorksher' but they tend not to be very well researched. I've never come across a serious work but I'm not a dialectologist.GordyB 15:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Right; that´s sorted. Are you going to do it? andreasegde 15:44, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay but not now.GordyB 15:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I would leave in Yok-sha puddin' (Yorkshire Pudding; batter-based that has nothing to do with sweet puddings) and 'On Ilkla Moor Baht'at'. andreasegde 15:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll be starting shortly. I've just discovered how to create a sandbox, rather than delete everybody's work and leave a blank screen until I have finished (may take some time). I'll post a link to my sandbox User:GordyB/Sandbox (others welcome to edit / view / make comments) and replace the section when I've finished. Internet based sources are going to be particularly useful, I hope to reference each word as being attested to by each source. I think splitting the dialect up into 'Batley dialect' versus 'Huddersfield dialect' etc is too ambitious but noting each source may given some indication of geographical range.GordyB 13:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

kettle and hob fob (watch) is cockney rhyming slang...i know this page is known for inaccuracies but to think that one's yorkshire beggars belief

[edit] Links

Here are some links for anyone that is interested: [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] andreasegde 15:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Definitely needs some changes. The explanations of the pronunciations in Yok-sha (a good example of a misleading pronunciation) are just wrong137.138.46.155 15:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Yorkshire is a very large place and has a population of around five million (on a par with Scotland). It is ridiculous to presume that everybody speaks the same. A Hull accent is not the same as a Sheffield accent. To me the pronunciations seem fine but then I'm from North Yorkshire / West Riding. I'll try to convert most of them to IPA when I get chance as abc doesn't really work very well for dialects.GordyB 22:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Why are they wrong, 137.138.46.155? andreasegde 22:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Phonetic

Ehh bah gum, it´s reet ´ard to get the phonetics. I can´t seem to copy them from the on-line dictionary. Don´t tell me we´ve got to do them all by hand... --andreasegde 15:38, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much. I used to work in applied linguitics and know the IPA symbols for Standard English, dialects are another matter. In addition there are many regional vaariations within Yorkshire, my edits would only be correct for me. Not to mention there are many words that I have never heard spoken. This is going to be a major task.GordyB 20:30, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
It terms of using IPA symbols, I understand that the purpose is so that the pronounciations can be more easily understood, but how many Wikipedia readers actually know IPA? I would be against changing the words.
A) It's not going to happen for a very, very long time as recompiling the word list is goping to take a long time B) I would not remove the pron guide written in standard orthography in any case, the IPA should be a supplement.GordyB 13:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright

Seeing as this article seems to have got very long very quickly, can I ask whether it was copied out of "The Yorkshire Dictionary" or a similar dialect handbook? If so, it may violate Wikipedia's policy on copywrite. 195.12.230.133 13:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have my suspicions myself. I am in the process of recompiling the vocabulary list and sourcing the vocab correctly. If you are in doubt then try to google some of the phrases and see if it brings up a website. The imitated pronunciation would be the easiest to search on, if you add '-Wikipedia' to the search then it will avoid bring up all the Wiki mirror sites.GordyB 13:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Just a thought, but has anybody thought that maybe someone should/should have written a book about this? They haven´t. We´re on the Front Line. Nobody has ever done this before. If we concentrate on what has been written in the past, are we forgetting the present? Any comments? --andreasegde 23:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
The Yorkshire Dialect Society published The Yorkshire Dictionary, and it's available in most bookshops in Yorkshire.
Any tourist information in Yorkshire will sell you one. There are at least a dozen.GordyB 13:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nacker

added Nacker (a slug) don't know if this is the correct spelling, never seen it written down.

[edit] glottal stop

Hello, I'm glad that at least one of my page creations has survived!

Can we please replace that "gulp" description with the correct "glottal stop", which, by the way has got it's own symbol.

Re: copyright... I have got a copy of that dictionary, but as a native speaker of (North) Yorkshire-ese, I never felt the need to consult it; 'appen later contributors 'av; for which I take no responsibility.

Re: pronunciation... absolutely, there's details of academic research into accent on a York St John website if you google.

I reckon you can safely say that the sub-dialects are: North Yorkshire, York City, West, Yorkshire, Humberside, South Yorkshire. The major divide being a diagonal (NW-SE) largely urban-rural divide.

Lastly re: orthography, it is a fact that word is not defined as a word simply by the way it's written or sounded. A word is an idea, and even widely-used slang can have cultural (i.e.: regional) nuance. There exist not only, homophones (rose, rows, roes...) and homographs (shift n, shift n.,) , but heterologues (arse n., and house (in Nottingham dialect sounds like "arse") n.} too, which apply to words if diffent languages (and that includes dialects) that are written and (i think) sounded the same (if not, we need a new word to describe this concept). It's a bit philosophical, but

It takes one to know one 15:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)Promsan

[edit] Yorkshire?!

My God how long has this confusing, pointless, incorrect piece of drivel been around? These words are not Yorkshire colloquialisms. Most of these are general Northern colloquialisms (I'd hazard a guess that they're not just exclusive the North either, but the Midlands, maybe Scotland too). The article also has many other failings. Half the time it's not even talking about colloquialisms, but stuff like songs, cuisine and jokes for Christ's sake. This article strikes me as being written by one bloke with no real evidence who thought every odd slang word he heard was exclusive to Yorkshire. Well it isn't. Going to put this up for deletion. A way to improve this article? Delete the bugger. -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 18:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC).

I'm very interested in dialect especially that of Yorkshire (South and West Ridings) and the south east where I have family connections.So I was very disappointed with some of the glaring inaccuracies of this article. Why is it that so many Yorkshire articles think that if a phrase is not standard English its from Yorkshire? I've seen many phrases listed here as Yorkshire commonly used by people in other parts of the country.WEll done on clearing up the word section though although theres still a few debatable ones there.

  • Look at how many people have edited the page - it was clearly not written by 'one bloke' I find this article both interesting and useful and really can't see why you think Wikipedia would benefit from its deletion Cavie78 21:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
It's not a case of you finding it interesting and useful - all the info is wrong! -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 22:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC).

Unless you have specificaly researched the Yorkshire dialect I don't think you are in any position to challenge the information as being wrong. Inaccurate possibly but your post is very insulting to the people who have played a part in building this article. Just because the phrase or word is found elsewhere it does not make the phrase any less of Yorkshirism, thats just like saying that Latin phrases used in English are English. Maybe the reason for so many words and phrases you deem "northern" being included has something to do with the pride all Yorkshire folk share in their county. Would it be more acceptable to rename the title "Yorkshireisms". By the way, dont call an article that has relation to my county a bugger. >:D Chalky17 19:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

You don't understand what my point is. Just because the phrase or word is found elsewhere it does not make the phrase any less of Yorkshirism - on the contrary, a words which are found in other Northern dialects makes them automatically *not* Yorkshireisms. A Yorkshireism by definition is some colloquialism found *only* in Yorkshire, otherwise every word spoken in Yorkshire would be a Yorkshireism. Do you have any proof they originated in Yorkshire? Have you any proof they are specific to Yorkshire? Have you any proof of anything whatsoever? No - and that's why this article is unencyclopaedic. -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 12:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC).

Calm your passions. Well you know what I have to say to that: Stop stealing our phrases! (just kidding) You say I have no proof they originated in Yorkshire, do you have any they don't? We could argue that all through the night and it not solve anything, would you be happier if this article was megerd with the Yorkshire dialect and accent then? Or would you be happier with a note at the top saying that some words may have been imported or exported to other areas? It would be hard to properly compile pure Yorkshireisms now because of people traveling more and most of the pure Yorkshireisms have likley fallen into disuse. Chalky17 18:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yorkshireisms, other Northern words, indeed the whole encyclopaedic value of this article.

For a kick-off, this article confuses "Northern" with "Yorkshire". It does/did this in the opening two or three times. If you're going to have an article called "Northern Collquialisms", that's fine by me. Otherwise, please restrict this article to words only used in Yorkshire, and nowhere else. That is the very definition of a Yorkshireism - if, for example, a Geordie may use the term, then it's not a Yorkshire colloquialism. If you find fault with that assessment, consider the word "sommat". Is it a collquialism? Yes. Is it of Yorkshire origin? Impossible to tell. Is it used exclusively in Yorkshire? Definitely not, it is even used in Southern England, (see Ricky Gervais' stand up shows, he uses it all the time). So is it a Yorkshireism? Well no.

I have gone through this article a painstakingly removed spurious, malinformed and confusing stuff. I have deleted words which I personally have come across in dialects other than Yorkshire (which is all I can vouch for). Please don't revert these with the rationale "But it comes from Yorkshire!" without proof. By the way, if you can prove with sources that these deleted words originated in Yorkshire, or have some special relationship with Yorkshire, you can add them back. I have given the benefit of the doubt to words I personally was unsure about.

The jokes part, the food part and the song part have literally nothing to do with this article. They could be candidates for being in Yorkshire dialect and accent however.

I also deleted some of the place names, as they weren't actually different words, just ones written in an accent. Abbreviations, humorous title (Ponty Carlo etc) have been kept because unlike most of the article, they are used in Yorkshire exclusively, and probably originated there too.

Hopefully you won't all just revert it and say "But they're used in Yorkshire, they should be on this page!" - so is the word "Hello", but it aint no Yorkshireism. I took some considerable time to improve this list, because I do feel there is a place for it. -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 12:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC).

We don't say Hello in Yorkshire. We say : Ey up! Nahh then! possibly the closest you get is 'Ullo! dont you know about the apparent lack of the letter H in the yorkshire accent rarely you can hear it when its next to another constanant


I think this is just the kind of "because we do it in Yorkshire no-one else does" thing that Boothman is on about...ie name me one area of England where working -class (ie non standard English using)people DONT knock the "h" off the start of words.

I do know what Yorkshire people say, half of my family is from Barnsley. -- Boothman /tɔːk/ 22:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC).
You need to read Arnold Kellet's 'Basic Broad Yorkshire' about this. He claims that dropping the 'h' is an integral part of Yorkshire grammar.Bkpip 04:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What do people have against "gip"?

I remember the discussion near the top of the page about whether "gip" should be included. I looked through Ian McMillan's new book yesterday, and he'd included it. It is in the old Yorkshire Dictionary too. The fact that kids still use it today seems to be to make it all the more worthy of including. I haven't been on this page for a while; "gip" has been removed [again] since I last looked.

Also, doctors who move to Yorkshire from elsewhere are apparently told that their patients might use the word, so it's useful to be up here.  :) Epa101 17:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, gip seems to be in common use and should certainly be included. re: the wretch vs vomit discussion above, here's what I've observed:
  • most commonly: to gip is a verb meaning to wretch (in the vomit, reflex sense)
  • occasionally: gip up (usually past tense gipped up) meaning to be sick or to vomit
  • rarely if ever: gip a noun meaning vomit or sick
To distinguish from the insulting noun wretch I've expanded the entry for gip in the hope that this will keep it in the list. Behind The Wall Of Sleep 11:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC) (non-native Yorkshire speaker)

That's generally right; I use the word as such when with fellow Yorkshire folk. You do sometimes also hear "gippy" as an adjective to feel that you might want to vomit; that might be an invention of today's youth though. It seems to be most common in the Leeds area, perhaps due to jokes about Gipton. Epa101 13:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Truly Awful

That's all I can say concerning this article. Firstly, dialect, colloquialisms and slang CANNOT be lumped into the same category. Dialect can be broadly defined in present context as regional language, colloquialisms as expressions not usually used in formal speech, (slang, even more so). However, despite the semantic differences, my personal problem with such a linguistic whitewash lies in the fact that dialect often, nay usually, tends to have genuine heritage, whilst colloquilisms and slang tend to be derivative. The last thing Yorkshire dialect needs, its modern existence tenuous enough, is to be perceived as a corrupt derivative of standard English. Words such as agate, bairn and neeve have 1200 years of history behind them in the British isles, and frequently surprass the standard English equivalent in their antiquity. (Please be aware all, that a 'Yorkshire Dialect' article already exists). With regards to the following quote: 'Are you sure about bairn...?...I'm from Yorkshire and I've never heard Yorkshire people use bairn!' It always amazes me how little us Yorkshire folk know about our own land. Yorkshire is large, and very diverse. We have three individual dialects, and, within each of those, several sub-dialects. Within each sub-dialect catchment area we have a massive variety of colloquialisms and slang, that changes from one side of the town to the other. Halifax, Huddersfield and Bradford share borders, but they have a hugely different number of words for exactly the same things. What I'm trying to say is that just because you're from Yorkshire doesn't make you an expert on the Yorkshire language. Just because you haven't heard a word or phrase before doesn't mean that it isn't used somewhere in God's own country, ('r' intentional by the way). Furthermore, this article is very West-Riding-centric. A lot of the words that are contested, such as bairn, are in common use in the North and East Ridings. I would like to sum up with what I believe to be the only practical solution to creating an article such as this, if there is one at all, being that people should only weigh in with colloquialisms or slang that they are personally familiar with and desist from giving their opinions on those contributions that they are not. Otherwise, unless people have made a study of the findings of the Yorkshire Dialect Society and the books of Dr. Arnold Kellet, they should really keep quiet. I wouldn't presume to write a book on astro-physics, for instance, just because I happen to live on the planet earth! Bkpip 04:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

I've tidied up the intro, basically with the intention of clarifying the differences between dialect and colloquialisms. I think my next task will be to remove those words which I know to be dialect of ancient origin, as I don't believe they belong in this section. Will report my changes when finished.Bkpip 03:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletions

After an initial admittedly cursory sweep, I've removed those words or phrases that I know to be dialect. I've also deleted words which are included simply due to differences in pronunciation between standard English and Yorkshire English.

I've taken out some alternative pronunciations of 'Sowerby Bridge', that were pure invention and total claptrap. Bkpip 03:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More of the same

I've taken out dialect words, dialect phrases, pronunciation differences and words/phrases that also are common in places other than Yorkshire. I also suggest that many of the place names be moved to the individual sections of the towns in question, a 'native pronunciation' sub-heading perhaps. Bkpip 04:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marsk

By "Marsk (Maske)" do you mean Marske-by-the-Sea?
JohnYeadon 21:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Silly phonetic respelling

A lot of things here seem to be written in silly phonetic respellings that serve no purpose. Taking the examples, "Ah-cud eet a'scabby-donkey tween tu Bre't-Vans" and "Carm ye pashuns", shouldn't those just be "I could eat a scabby donkey 'tween two Bread Vans" and "Calm your passions"? I mean, "Carm ye pashuns" could be used for just about any non-rhotic dialect in England, if you wanted to spell it in a silly obscurantist way. Am I missing something? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 00:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)