User talk:Yom/Archive7

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[edit] Reunification

Hello Yom. Happy (Gregorian) new year. I just wanted to know if you could add your input to the Eritrean article (section :Independant Era) I added a paragraph stating that many eritreans are becoming frustrated with the government and how they would prefer reunification. Cluckbang 17:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Yeshaq

If that is the case (that there was more than one) then some way needs to be determined to differentiate that does not include the title of the person. This is per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people). There must be a better way than is currently implemented. Do you have any comments? --Merhawie 20:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, was Yeshaq the son of Dawit? If this were the case would it not be best for WP's sake to refer to him as Yeshaq Dawit and have redirects to this name? --Merhawie 03:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
The Emperor, yes, but the Wikipedia standard is to use X Y of Z for rulers (with X being the name, Y the number if s/he is a first, second, etc., and Z being the country), and the standard name by which Yeshaq is known is plain Yeshaq. None of the Emperors are known by their full names: even the modern ones are known by their throne names (and while Tewodros and Yohannes are sometimes distinguished with their fathers' names because of their similar first names, the same is never done for Minilik, Tekle Haymanot, or the earlier Emperors). Yeshaq, the Bahr negus, cannot be said to be more well-known than Yeshaq, the Emperor, so a disambiguation should involve the changing of the article name of the Bahr negus, since a formula is already used for the Emperor. There is also the Yeshaq of the Kebra Nagast to take into account, whose father's name we do not know. I don't see why we can't change Bahr negus Yeshaq into Yeshaq (Bahr negus) to distinguish him, though (and the other Yeshaq perhaps as Yeshaq (Kebra Nagast) or with some other spelling for the book). What do you think? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe your suggestion is adequate. However, should Bahr Negus be converted to the English name or should it be kept the same? My gut tells me it should be kept as Bahr Negus...but whatever. Furthermore, would you like to go through and do the renaming or should I? --Merhawie 03:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I would keep it at Bahr negus, too. It doesn't particularly translate well into English ("Sea King"), and other names have not been translated (e.g. Ras, Mekonnen, Negus, Dejazmach, Meridazmach). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you...

Salam Yom,

How are you doing? Thanks for watching over the yemeni articles, since Im not around here alot. Jidan 15:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sheep & Begemder

I admit, I've never been to that part of Ethiopia, but Huntingford & Beckingham quote Beke on raising sheep in Begemder (whose words I paraphrased). I didn't attribute the quotation to him because I didn't have access to his original work wherein he expounds on this. -- llywrch 21:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, Begemdir is roughly equivalent with today's Debub Gondar Zone, for which you have sources noting there are 0.6 livestock per head, or about 1.5 million total. While this doesn't necessarily include sheep, Begemdir is not at all a dry region. Its northern border, for instance, is formed by the Tekezé River, whose source is around eastern Begemdir/western Wollo. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somaliland

If Somaliland only disputed the territory with the government, and if Somaliland hadn't agreed to a set line of control with Puntland, I would agree. However Somaliland and Puntland have signed an armistice with a set line of control, and Puntland also claims the territory as its own AND controls it. --Ingoman 01:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black people

Please see the talk page about that image. futurebird 13:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question on a link

Was this linking an error. I chnged it to Ogaden (clan) because that would seem better than the town. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I thought that was it. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Thanks re Halaqah

I know the spelling in Arabic and i knew the Amharic was wrong ( i knew someone would tell me sooner or later--it was later), i only learned the fedel in late years and dont get the fine vowels, very difficult. cheers.but the (ቃ) isnt that like Kebe a very K sound as opposed to a "QUAH--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 01:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Vexperiential

Yom, if you have more than a suspicion that this user is the same person as Minorcorrections, you can always post a request at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets. I'll agree that it is suspicious that someone who writes on his user page "I'm very very new to wikipedia so be kind" then indulges in an edit war over Mohammed Al Amoudi is not a newbie. -- llywrch 22:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eritrean polotics

Hello Yom! Melcam Asterio and Gena. Yes, Ive been very busy lately. What I meant is that many Eritreans (even pro Shaebians) are becoming frustrating with the current government of Isias Afewerki. He is considered to be an "okay" leader since he has done alot for the Eritrean people. However, currently, when you consider what he is doing, making bad comments about the US and provoking another war with Ethiopia, with a population consisting of a mere 4 million people. So basically, to put it short, many would prefer a reunification with Ethiopia since they believe they would have had more freedom (no conscription). Easy border crossing, no fear of war, better economy, and close cultures. You may not realize this but the Afar tribes in Eritrea are trying to reunite with thos e in Ethiopia. However, in most cases, right now Im speaking for the Eritrean Tigrinyas. At the same time, some would say after all that fighting, is it worth it to reunite? Moreless, what i meant by reunification is for freedom, not for the love of Ethiopia. However, I think we all know that it is impossible. You and I both know what is happening in Ethiopia and Eritrea and the economic crises, but when I wrote that sentence, I wrote it for those people like ferenjoch who dont know much about our people. However, Im not saying that I want Eritrea to reunite with Ethiopia. Well, all the best. See you in a while. Also, do you think the monarchy of Ethiopia will once again return to power (telling from their history)? Cluckbang 00:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Eritrean War of Independence

On the page you made mention of Derg in the Infobox. Obviously the War of Independence was against the Government of Haile Selassie and the Derg. Was your reference to the flag? How it only represented that of the Derg's Ethiopia (until I believe 1987?)? Otherwise I do not agree with the alternative implication. Further more I also noticed that you removed the Cuba and USSR listings from the same page. In the summary you note that Soviet troops and Cuban troops did not participate. However, this is not true as Soviets were captured at the Battle of Afabet and Cubans at the Battle of Tessenei...--Merhawie 02:27, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mengistu Haile Mariam

Re: User:Ploughman is a sock of User:Jacob Peters - a notorious and banned editor. While you won't have any more trouble from Ploughman, you'll want to keep your eyes open for the same type of POV edits in the future. He's been at this for many months now. Rklawton 02:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Issues at Zanj

I suspect that the editor AnonMoos is violating the CIVIL rules and constantly changing things on the page Zanj which contradicted the listed sources given. Claiming to be a master of Arabic but not a native speaker of Arabia, refuses to discuss. Anyway input needed, as i know Zanj was not used for all Africans hence the meaning refs to certain East African groups. I really though he understood from the prior discussion, but maybe he attended a few more night classes in Arabic and returned 2 challenge me.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 19:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aleqa

I found the "Alèqa" spelling on a large number of English-language sites; are you sure that it's French? (The ssame for Alemu Aga‎.) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 00:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm pretty sure. In fact, the most common English name might be "Alaqa" based on the old tradition of transliterating that second vowel with "ä" (first order vowel in the Ge'ez alphabet). The French transcribe that first order vowel with "è." You may have found that spelling due to influence from Ethiopiques, a French publication of Ethiopian songs. If you feel it's significant, it can still be noted in the first sentence, though. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
You're right that I first came across Alemu Aga‎, and started an article on him, because of the Ethiopiques albums, but I then did a lot of research on the Internet. Given that this is a very common spelling, perhaps it should be mentioned in the lead, yes. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Filing a complaint against Asian2duracell

I am sending you this message in regards to a report I am filing against Asian2duracell to the Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration. He has been found guilty of racial intollerance, name calling, trolling, sock puppetry, and vandalism. All other methods of conflict resolution have been tried and failed. Please let me know that you are aware of this request and if you would like to participate in this. Regards. Wiki Raja 01:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irobs

This is a problem when ethnicity and language groupings collide, especially in Ethiopia. Saho is a language and not an ethnic group (at least according to the Irob). See, the Irobs claim to be descendants of Summe who came from central Tigray area. They just happen to speak Saho. Therefore, they don’t claim any “ethnic” or tribal connection to the Sahos of Eritrea. Also, Irobs are pretty evenly split between Tewahido and Ge’ez Rite Catholic. Actually, the Tewahidos might even be the majority-not sure about this. Actually, Soubagadis was Tawahido. I’m looking to add a link to Irob separate from the Saho link, just to clarify and elaborate on the differences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Assimba (talk • contribs) 19:47, 12 February 2007

Yom, this user also insists that the woreda Gulomahda is better transliterated as "Gulomakda", per his edits to this article. Your opinion? -- llywrch 20:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
"Gulomahda" is the CSA transliteration; you can find the Ge'ez version on the PDF of Table B.4 from their website. The telecom.net.et link mentions Zalambessa as part of Gulo Makeda, which solidifies the identification, & in retrospect the "Makeda" part makes perfect sense.
I'd rather not include the dash if you don't mind, to keep the usage consistent with the other compound names in the articles I've created so far. -- llywrch 23:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
PS - I'm puzzled by the mention of "Ambalaga woreda" in this article you pointed me to. I can't find that I've created an article about it in the Tigray Region -- nor all of Ethiopia. Should we assume that this is another recent administrative adjustment that hasn't reached the CSA? -- llywrch 23:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for clarification of number of Tigrinya speakers

Hello,

In your revision of the Tigrinya language article as of 17:05, 13 February 2006 you cited three sources in support of the number of Tigrinya speakers indicated in the table. I've marked this fragment of text with the tag: [Quotation needed from source]. Please read Talk:Tigrinya language#Number of speaker in table not corroborated by given sources for more details. Thanks Itayb 17:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


As you've written in your message to me, in '94 6.1% of the population was roughly 3 million people (p. 3 of Dr. Abegaz's article states the '94 population size was 53 million). In your message to me you try to calculate the current number of speakers by using the '94 percentage with the current population size. This is an example of original research, which is discouraged in Wikipedia). In fact, the national statistics report you mention in your message states (table B1 on page 6) that the '06 number of Tigray is 4335 thousands in a population of 75067 thousands, i.e. 5.8%. But even if you take the 6.2% figure which is mentioned in Ethiopia#Demographics (probably relying on Dr. Abegaz's article) as the percentage of the Tigray ethnic group, you still get at most 4654.154 thousand Tigray. This is more than 2 million people less than the number of total speakers indicated in the table in the Tigrinya language article.

You've written in your message, that "There are another few hundred thousand or so speakers outside of Tigray, and a few hundred thousand in the diaspora (see http://www.joshuaproject.net/ for diaspora numbers)." The Joshua Project references the Ethnologue listing, and the Ethnologue listing states that the total number of Tigrigna speakers in all countries is 4,449,875 (they seem to rely on the 1998 census).

I've changed the number in the table as well as the associated citations. I hope you approve. Itayb 10:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


I've requested a third opinion on this matter. Itayb 16:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added to the request links to the Semitic languages page and its talk page. Itayb 16:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
The user Grouse accepted the request for a third opinion. He wrote his opinion here. Do you accept this opinion? Itayb 22:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: State leaders

Yom, you're probably right about it, but my primary interest is to get some of the missing entries on those pages. I figure once that is done, then the entries can be polished -- if you take a look at the various pages, you'll see a lot of discrepencies between those entries. -- llywrch 04:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

About your dates: I tried one of the converters listed at Ethiopian calendar (this one), converted the years AD to their EC equivalents, typed them in, & this is what I got:
  • For the Solomonic restoration - 10 Nehase (becomes 12-10) AD 1270 (becomes EC 1262) -> 10 August 1270;
  • For the day Zara Yaqob died - 16 Sene (becomes 10-16) AD 1468 (becomes EC 1460) -> 19 June 1468.
You may want to submit my math to a sanity check just to be sure, but the results are very close to my own back-of-the-envelope calculations predicted. -- llywrch 03:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
The second date is actually for the death of Yekuno Amlak, not Zara Yaqob. My only concern is that those translators might not take into account the difference in dates for EC 1999 (the current year) vs. EC 1262, since the beginning and end of the year change every 200 years (September 11th is the first of the year in the EC only for 1901-2099, before then it was a different date, and so on as you get farther back). Did your calculations take that into effect, and do you think that this calculator is that in depth (it seems legitimate, but I'm not sure)? If so, it'll be a very useful tool, since it works for all dates, and I'll include these conversions on the respective articles. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 07:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aksum InfoBox

Hi. Good job on the Aksumite page. I'm doing work on the Mali Empire page and want to put in an infobox like yours. The problem is, I'm clueless on how to do so. I tried to copying an info box template but it came out funny. can u hip me to the template you used sinc it would be more appropos than using the template for a still existing country.

thanx in advance & keep up the good work Scott Free 23:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question about ARDUF article

Good job with the ARDUF article, but I have a question.

In this article you state: an Eritrean attack on the town of Alitena, inhabited primarily by Irob people (an ethnicity closely related both linguistically and historically to Afars)

Do you base this assertion of historical affinity on some evidence or is it just speculation? The source you cite doesn't support that statement. Just wanted to ask before editing.Assimba

[edit] ==Map==

Hey Yom since when was Italian a native or Official language of Ethiopia or Somalia? do you know how to change these maps?

.
.
During the Military Junta of the 70's Somali became the official language and the other languages over time were neglected and today probably a few hundred remain who can speak italian fluently, English on the other hand is a different story since it's a universal language and continues to be taught in schools.
About the Libyan case i found a pdf file saying this..Arabic is the Official language in Libya, English and Italian are widely spoken in Hotels,shops and traditional markets. French is also spoken but mainly in the southern areas[1] RoboRanks 23:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your work

Thanks you for all your work on various African history pages, like Afrocentrism, Cheikh Anta Diop, and Racial Characteristics of he Ancient Egyptians. There is a persistent clique centeed in a certainProject Group, (I will not name names yet) attempting to disrupt the page and remove balanced scholarship. As another user has written recently, their methods are dishonest and deceptive, and include:

  • (1) Stealth inserts and removal of scholarship they don't like. A typical maneuver is not to Edit a section directly. They call up the whole page to edit, and don't leave behind any edit summary so it is more difficult to trace what they are doing. Anonymous IPs are sometimes used or sock accounts
  • (2) Another dodge is a "good cop, bad cop" routine where one will assume the pretence of "conciliator" on one hand, while with the other they stealthily undo changes they don't like. Beware of those who appear to be "objective conciliators" supposedly showing "evenhandedness" in criticizing "excesses". They themselves are part of it.
  • (3) When these methods fail they resort to wholesale page blanking or rapid reversions. The purpose of rapid reversions is to trap and provoke otherwise legitimate editors into making many repairs or violating the 3RR rule. They then use this "evidence" to carry out their fourth dodge:
  • (4) Use of adminsitrative harassment to remove competing scholarship. This takes the form of AFds, RFIs, tagging personal pages with "warnings", "incident" reports to Administrators, and other forms of harassment. It is a dishonest and deceptive clique at work here.
  • They will wait until you are less active then do wholesale reverts by stealth to your edits and additions. Their purpose is simple. They want pages in constant turmoil, because that creates a weak article and prevents certain other scholarship from being honestly represented. One honest broker on other pages has been NewEnglandYankee who has intervened to reverse several of these types of edits on related topics.

Request you help monitor these articles mentioned above over an extended period to ensure the deceptive methods are not being used. Jollypops 07:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Axom (Axum) vs Aksum (Aksom?)

I started writing this topic on the appropriate talk page, but it was too short, and I didn't like my tone of writing (so I figured long-ish edit summaries would be a good substitute for a talk page topic). I don't know this subject outside of Wikipedia, so it's kind of like drawing a name out of a hat, for me. When the article said "properly Aksum", I ran with it. I hope I haven't caused too much trouble, I think my changes are fairly easily revertable (and considering I made them about an hour ago, I don't think there are many intermediate edits to worry about).

On the subject of translation, syllabic equivalences, and lexical approximation, a lot can probably be said, but I'm not a expert on that either, so I'll use my lips to close my mouth, rather than my foot. ;) Xaxafrad 08:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Number of Tigrinya Speakers Dispute: Let's Try to Work This Out

Yom,

I agree with your critique, that the actual number of Tigrinya speakers is probably significantly higher than Ethnologue's stated 4.5 million. In fact, the previous Ethnologue report itself claimed there were 5.1 million Tigrigna speakers. The reason i insist on stating the current Ethnologue figure, is that this is the only sourced figure - flawed as it is - i've seen so far, that attempts to determine a total number of Tigrigna speakers taking into account the whole world population.

Your calculations may be more reasonable and more accurate, but my concern is that they fall under the rubric of original research, which is to be avoided in Wikipedia as per the attribution policy. You seem to be making "the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article in order to advance position C". However, that constitutes original research.

Do you not agree that the figure you've stated for the number of Tigrinya speakers is the result of a calculation, a synthesis of different sources? Do you not agree that the figure i have stated for this number is not a synthesis of any sort, and is well-attributed as per the Wikipedia policy? Are you aware of the fact that a third opinion was given on this matter (by Grouse here), and that it unambiguously supported using the Ethnologue figure rather than a calculation? Do you not agree, that original research is unacceptable in Wikipedia?

I can't accept the figure for the number of Tigrinya speakers that you state in the article, namely 6.75, reasonable as it is, unless it is attributable to a reliable source. You seem to be unwilling to accept the Ethnologue figure, and to insist on stating the result of your calculation in the article. We are obviously having a content/policy dispute, and seem not to be able to get through to each other. But edit-war is unacceptable, and yet we have to work it out somehow, don't you agree? Do you have any suggestion? Itayb 08:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfC re Number of Speakers of the Tigrinya Language

I've made an RfC (the request as of 07:19, 1 March 2007) in this matter. I've also linked to it from the Wikipedia's attribution policy's talk page. I've also contacted Mustafaa and MikeGasser, asking them to voice their opinions on this matter, whatever they be. Itayb 07:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm responding to the Wikipedia's attribution policy's talk page request. From what I've seen so far, Itayb's position is the correct one. I am next going to look at Talk:Tigrinya language and Talk:Semitic languages. These things are often solved by accurate identification of the claim (example: quotes from the sources) combined with full disclosure about the reliability of the sources (examples: date written, what the source claims its evidence is). The trick is to not include in the article original research about why the source is reliable while still using the talk page to actually do original research about various sources' reliablility. It can get tricky, so having experienced editors help with the wording can be useful. The end result should read clear, precise, relevant, attributed to reliable published sources and clearly lets the readers decide the truth for themselves. WAS 4.250 20:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I looked at Talk:Tigrinya language and Talk:Semitic languages and Itayb's position is clearly the correct one. Others are pitching in to help. If anyone wishes anything further from me on this issue, please say so on my palk page. For now it looks to be in good hands. WAS 4.250 20:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, one more thing; sometimes putting details in a footnote helps solve editing problems when one person thinks its too much detail for the article but another thinks its too important to leave out. Details on the reliability of a claim in an article for example. WAS 4.250 20:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shalwar vs. Salwar Redux

Hi, Since you had posted an opinion on the preferred (Wikipedia) spelling of this apparel, I was wondering if you could respond to Shalwar vs. Salwar Redux. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ahmad Gragn & the Somali people

Hi Yom, just dropping a note that I added some material from the Futuh in the Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi that suggest that he might not be Somali. I thought you might want to know about it ahead of time before the fireworks start. -- llywrch 00:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

One of the frustrations with using the Futuh on Wikipedia is that I have been unable to find much secondary literarue discussing it. You may have a point about possible OR there -- but when I re-read it for clues on Ahmad Gragn's ethnicity, I was struck by how often the author fails to take advantage of the opportunity to state whether he was Somali; & a few of the passages were written to suggest that he was not.
As for Ahmad Gragn's time amongst the Somali, your comments make me see that I could have written that portion much better. Not only did he live amongst them, but was treated with a great amount of veneration, & accepted his judgements in settling feuds and other conflicts. While Somali culture may have changed greatly in the last 500 years, from what I know of it I find it hard to believe that they would defer to the guidance of a Muslim non-Somali -- even an Imam; thus I see it as evidence that he might be Somali.
But my concern is not with trying to prove one thing or another; the section needs more work. I'm more concerned that some Somali POV-pusher will delete or mangle this section, & deny that there is any opposing evidence about the Imam's ethnicity. -- llywrch 19:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
About Sultan Muhammed bin Ali of the Zarba: the Futuh is somewhat contradictory about his relationship to Ahmad Gragn. In one passage, it states he was the son of the Imam's father's sister (p. 69); in another, he is the son of the Imam's mother's sister (p. 44). My guess is that either the writer of the Futuh had a momentary lapse, or there is a scribal error in the transmission of the text -- which can be confusing in places. I don't think one could conclude that we have a case of brother-sister marriage here. (About the only place I know of where this has been documented is anceint Egypt, & even the evidence there only proves that it happened -- not that it was widely accepted.)
PS, I meant to add this above: I have never encountered "jobsworth" before. An interesting word. -- llywrch 20:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I was hoping you'd be correct about this article: the first shot was just fired about that edit. -- llywrch 20:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey Yom i just purchased that book on Amazon so it might take a while untill i can join the discussion, but fact of the matter is those personal interpretations of the Futuh is not what wikipedia is made for, it's not about personal opinions or appealling to popularity by asking the reader questions. To Llywrch please don't compare me to a roving vandal, that first shot was needed since i was being ignored on the discussion page if tommorow the Futuh part 2 was found and it said he was an Afar it would not matter to me so i'm not here to push a Somali POV -RoboRanks 03:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent war in Somalia

Hi,

I wonder if you know of any official Ethiopian casualties number given by the government. If yes, notice me and give source. Thank you. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Werji people

A tag has been placed on Werji people, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. SyBerWoLff 23:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Do not feed the troll

You will notice people will try and provoke you will their crap. engage you in stupid debates about 1/2 Arab. I would say dont worry about them. I have blocked all of that content in the Black people page and other editors are doing it. Dont feed them, they like it. The editor you are dealing with has a long long history of this. esp on that topic. None of the content appears in the article that is the mainthing, It is how people exhaust you. I believe it is important for racist Academics to introduce this concept because not only do Ethiopians and Kemet have a link but Ethiopia is a sig civilization which supports the fact that Africans are amazing. there is nothing more. Do you know they said the samething about the fulani? The Notourious Oxford study has been doing the rounds, now it is being forced into Habasha, i got it pulled from black people. copy and paste where ever they can fit it.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 09:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need help with Oromia woredas/districts

Hi, going by Tadesse Meskela's comments on the Black Gold discussion board, he's given the two coffee growing locations shown in the film:

  1. the Kilenso Mokonisa Cooperative in the Bure Hora District, Borena Zone, Oromia Region
  2. Negele Gorbitu Cooperative, in Abaya District, Borena Zone, Oromia Region.

In the Borena Zone page, however, these districts are called woredas, and the names of the woredas aren't quite the same as the way Meskela gives them (the most similar ones are Bore and Gelana Abaya; all are redlinked presumably because we don't have enough Oromo Wikipedians yet). In the film, the caption says that the second location is in Yirgacheffe. Can you help sort this out so we get it just right? Badagnani 06:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Badagnani, the problem with woredas in Ethiopia is that verifiable sources that can provide information about them is hard to come by. Current information even harder. There are two Zones whose woredas I still need to create articles about, after which I hope someone with better access to the needed information can maintain them. -- llywrch 00:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Panairjdde

Volunteers are being sought to help enforce the community ban on Panairjdde. I know that he's frequently crossed your path while editing, so I thought you might be interested. Drop by the page. Thanks! --Palffy 02:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islam by country

I tried the talk page of that article, but I never got any reply, so since you are editing the page I figured I'd see if you knew. What's the source for the regional numbers? The Caribbean section 15,860 Muslims, but one country in the Caribbean (Trinidad and Tobago) has over 65,000. Are there -50,000 is the rest of the region? :) Guettarda 21:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Date of Atronsa Maryam's destruction

Hi Yom -- I don't know which date is correct. I don't have access to Budge's book at the moment, but he can be sloppy about his facts so he might have written both dates. I'll try & see what I can do. -- llywrch 00:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jeddah & Habesh

You say that Jeddah was only part of Hecez (Hijaz), but are you sure this was always the case? I'm the source of most of the information in Habesh, mainly from a paper I wrote, and I have a cited sentence saying that the creation of the province was declared in 1555, including the Ethiopian coast, Suakin, and Jeddah, although the citation may be for a different part of sentence and not necessarily what comprised Habesh. Here's the sentence from my paper:

The final, and perhaps only, “serious naval confrontation in the Indian Ocean” took place in 1554 (86). The next year the provinces of Lahsa (al-Hasa) and Habeş (Jeddah, Suakin, and the Ethiopian coast) were declared, with Özdemir Paşa given the task of conquering Habeş (72).

ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello friend , yes i ment Hejaz by that , but here's few points:
  • at 1555 , Ottomans still haven't reached Ethiopia and Yemen . source image : .
  • according to the same image , Hejaz is a diffrent reigon from habesh.
  • Ottoman Hejaz have always been under adminstration of Pashas of Egypt . please read more at : Ottoman-Saudi War.
  • Hejaz does not face the indian ocean or gulf of aden.
  • please take an expanded view of ottoman states at : List_of_Ottoman_Empire_dominated_territories
  • Jeddah have always been a part of Hejaz area across the history and been led by it owns Sharifs (Chiefs).
and finally , thanks for discussing such unexpected mistakes . have a nice day Ammar 22:23, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure dear friend , you can never find a clear source about that even , i hope we both ain't breaking the WP:COI law , thanks Ammar 05:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Lebna Dengel's picture

I don't know what happened to this image either: best I can guess is that it was deleted a long time ago without notifying you (which shouldn't have been done), because not only I can't restore it -- I can't seem to find it in the deletion log! (Apparently deleted images are kept in the Wikipedia database for only so many days before they are flushed.) However, I found a modified png version of this same image over on commons & pointed the link to there. Hope this works for you, Yom. -- llywrch 17:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

There's always a backlog in the deletion queues (having taken a share or two working it), & people are constantly uploading junk to Wikipedia, so an Admin clearing the queue doesn't have the time to look for broken links. I'm more concerned that no one left a note for you that this image was nominated for deletion. That's not a kind thing to do. -- llywrch 20:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Qabdahare

I looked at several sources that would help locate this town in Ethiopia, but I found nothing. Maybe it's in Ethiopia, maybe it's even a town. I'm not entirely convinced it exists -- but I've been wrong before. -- llywrch 01:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Tselemt/Tselemti

You've just proved my point: I've just come to expect you to correct me when I'm wrong. (Okay, & sometimes when I'm not. :) -- llywrch 19:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ethiopian or Geez Calendar

Hello there, Yom, how are you. I am asking for your support in changing all the Ethiopian calendar articles to Geez calendar. I believe it would be more formal, just as the Geez font is not called Ethiopian. As well, this is mainly due to the fact that the calendar is used by the Eritrean Orthodox church, and Eritrean Orthodox christians. Cluckbang

The common English name for it is the "Ethiopian calendar," though. "Ge'ez calendar" is only the term in Eritrea. Wikipedia standards are to use the most common English name unless it is pejorative. See WP:NAME. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re ...Native name

Hi Yom,
Spotted the above while archiving Template talk:Infobox Country; hopefully the {{nobold}} templates I've inserted in the {{Infobox Country}} templates for Ethiopia and Eritrea address your query!  Best wishes, David Kernow (talk) 21:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient Ethiopians and Sabeans shared many relations in language, only different in dialects

Yom, you are misunderstanding what I am saying, the statement I made serves both people who believe in the old and new theories regarding Ethiopian origins since both of us accept the fact that Ancient Ethiopians and Sabeans shared many connections, and SHARED a language long ago, whether the Ethiopians forced it upon the Sabeasn or vice-versa. That statement I made tells the reader about the Ancient connections in languages between the Ethiopians and Sabeans. I believe we should discuss this before you edit it again. Cluckbang 22:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

What do you mean by sharing a language? There are no attestations of this, but if they did, it would have been proto-South Semitic at the earliest, which we cannot date very well (certainly in the 2nd millenium BC or earlier). Sabaean didn't evolve into Ge'ez, nor did Ge'ez evolve into Sabaean. We know from the inscriptional record during the 8th century BC that there were some Sabaean speakers in Ethiopia, who seem to have represented Sabaeans from Yemen who may have been merchants (or otherwise) and whose inscriptions deal primarily with religious matters. On the other hand, we have inscriptions in another language (also using the Epigraphic South Arabian alphabet) that is distinct from Sabaean and found in all of the royal inscriptions (e.g. those of D`mt). This latter language has elements that correspond to Ge'ez (e.g. th>s, z.>s., use of "l-" for the verb hqny, etc.) and probably represents proto-Ge'ez. This means the two were distinct by the time that the Sabaean and D'mt kingdoms formed; therefore, Habeshas are not the descendents of the Sabaeans, although they are related. Think of it this way, you're related to your father's brother (uncle), but not his descendent. Replace the uncle with Saba'/Yemen, and your father with D'mt/Aksum, with "you" representing Habeshas. Also, regarding D'mt, that the civilization was indigenous and not an implant is not disputed. What's debated today is mainly the degree of Sabaean influence: e.g., whether it involved the introduction of certain cultural elements or not (another example being to what degree the D'mt ruling class was mixed with Sabaeans; see Fattovich's most recent paper). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, according to your analogy (which is a great and true one), then I could say you are come from a Semitic group of people whose cultural, linguistic, and in certain cases, ancestral origins trace back to the tribes of the grandparent(South Semitic people) who lived in Northeastern Africa and South Arabia. I am not using this statement to further back my theories on a civilization of a hybrid mix of Ethiopians and Sabeans.Notice how I didnt say "Sabeans", rather South Arabia. As well we dont know if the Habashas immigrated to Southern Arabia. So you have to look past the "father" and to the "grandfather". Cluckbang 00:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] napoleon and the sphynx

"This is probably the most offensive manifestation of Afrocentrism we encounter, implying as it does that Egyptologists as a group have routinely abandoned their scholarly integrity, simply in order to further some racist agenda. (As an epigrapher, I find the charge that we have recarved the faces of Egyptians represented in tomb reliefs particularly ludicrous.) Its most frequent manifestation is the Napoleon-knocked- the-nose-off-the-Sphinx-so-no- one-would-know-it-was- black contention, a silly argument that demonstrates the movement's unattractive paranoia." http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/afrocent_roth.html --Urthogie 01:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nireblog in Amharic

Hi Yom

We Have a Blogging system platform to create Blogs in many languages (53 at this time), Nireblog.com http://nireblog.com.

We want to make a Amharic version of Nireblog, nireblog.com/am, we have a system to create tranlations of text string, Niretrad http://niretrad.nireblog.com could you help us to create Blogging platform in Amharic

Thanks a lot.

David González (ketari[at]gmail) http://nireblog.com http://blog.ketari.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.55.141.203 (talk) 00:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

I'm very busy right now, but I'll forward this to some people who might be interested in helping. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:50, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yirgacheffe

Hi, I think we need a Yirgacheffe article, for the southern Ethiopian region where the famous coffee comes from. Do you have enough info to do that? Badagnani 02:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

The only info I would be able to gather on it at the time would be from online sources, and only news ones or websites at that. There don't seem to be many scholarly sources on it (and I don't have any on that region on me). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:11, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] + User:Hagos, OLF

I've moved the article back to Oromo Liberation Front and bloced User:Hagos. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your edit to Korban

Suggest joining the discussion at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew). Note the use of a q in the context you propose is not part of the current proposal. Best, --Shirahadasha 07:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient Egypt and Race

Hello Yom, I wanted to briefly ask you for two things if it wouldn't be that much of a problem.. If you can, could you keep this article on your watch.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt_and_race

And When ever you get the chance, is it possible to get a third opinion from you about an issue we have right now dealing with the Sphinx? One or two people are suggesting that a NY Times article is unreliable and insist on leaving it out, while me and other strongly disagree. Discussion.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ancient_Egypt_and_race#letter_to_the_editor_not_a_reliable_source

^The article its self isn't moving smoothly at all and I've noticed your edits so it would be much appreciated if you can stop by and give us your input please, thank you.Taharqa 02:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Response: It's cool now, thanx for the reply, this particular issue should be settled right now. Feel free (when ever you have time of course) to contribute to the discussion whenever, it would be nothing less than helpful. Peace.Taharqa 19:55, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legal Head of Ethiopia

The Ethiopian constitution of 1995 confirmed the abolition of the Emperorship. However, in 1993 a group called the "Crown Council of Ethiopia", which includes several descendants of Haile Selassie, claimed that the nəgusä nägäst was still in existence, and was the legal head of Ethiopia." Is there any validity in this statement, in your opinion Yom since the current constitution of ethiopia does not bear any recognition for the monarchy. Cluckbang 01:02, 19 May 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Re: Bingham Academy

I remember that article: it was PRODed (i.e., a kind of proposed speedy deletion) because it had no assertion of notability -- it was nominated by Makemi, & Srikreit only deleted the article because no one objected. I didn't object because, well, I wasn't sure if the subject was notable -- specifically that it's a real school & not just some fly-by-night outfit run out of someone's home. It didn't help that there was only one link to it. (I may some things about Ethiopia, but definitely not all.) Being located in a non-Western country is a bitch for some subjects, no matter what criteria one has for notability/verifiability. Can you point to some citable source that it is a respectable school? That will help us avoid a mess when the article is restored. -- llywrch 18:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, those two external links make it arguably notable to me. If I can't assume good faith about the Africa Almanac page, I should be able to towards the UNDP page. (And if this school should not qualify for recommendation on this list -- it becomes all the more notable only for different reasons.;-) I'll recreate the article with this information. -- llywrch 20:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
PS -- You may want to put this article on your watch list so that it doesn't gt PRODed or Speedily Deleted again. -- llywrch 20:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Habashat in Yemen

"The assumption that the Abyssinians are Sabaean Yemenites, and originate from the area of the state Sabaa is definitely wrong. Ancient Yemenite (deciphered) epigraphic documentation testifies to the existence in the area of today’s Yemen of one tribe / ethnic group named Habashat. Probably in several waves during the 1st millennium BCE different parts of that group moved to Africa crossing the straits Bab al Mandeb. The entire story is solemnly reflected in the Abyssinian Christian epics Kebra Negast." http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=24948 Cluckbang 01:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

Again with Megalomattis??? See "Habashat" in the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica for the modern scholarly opinion. "Habashat" in all uses by the South Arabians refer only to Ethiopia and Ethiopians, and never to a South Arabian tribe. BTW, Cluckbang, I'm curious. What exactly is your ancestry? Are you Ethiopian or part Ethiopian? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Faiyum mummies

You have not "rewritten" it. You first kept reverting to the POV version. Then you left the contradictory lines so the first sentence still says that Faiyum had mostly Greek people. All you did was write who said what. We already know that this claim is wrong. I can say that Faiyum was a city full of Native Americans because they had similar practices, but that won't make it correct. Egyegy 23:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: New Census

I knew that this census was due to happen soon, & I was hoping that I could work fast enough to at least get all of the entries in place before the results were released. Oh well. As for the latest estimate, I'm going to review it carefully in case they've updated their list of woredas or added some new information; I don't know about updating the figures -- maybe there's some eager new Wikipedian who'd like to rack up the edits. -- llywrch 23:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] assab

I'm having trouble at the assab article maybe you can help mediate. Mesfin 17:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re. Edit-warring

Hmmm...

1. Let's count the number of times you've edit-warred on Egypt-related articles to insert some racial or Afrocentric POV--at least those that I can remember off the top of my head: a) When you uploaded a picture of Nubian/Sudanese children and repeatedly added it in the main Egypt article claiming it was of "Egyptian not Nubian" children without ever being able to prove it (and for which it was deleted), yet uploaded the picture for the *sole* purpose of making some racial statement about the Egyptians--which is, by the way, the *only* topic that ever seems to motivate you to edit an Egypt-based article; b) the countless hours and days you spent incessantly edit-warring with others on the "race and ancient Egypt" article (your profound interest in this particular topic is also hard to miss given the copious amount of edits you've made to the article [2]); c) when you edit-warred on the Egyptians article after an anonymous IP kept inserting false information in the, what else, the origins section--information with which you were not even familiar nor as usual bothered to discuss first before blindly reverting as a gesture of support to that editor; d) your egregiously petty edit-war with Egyegy at el-Jabrti's article's over the latter's paternal ancestry, which you decided to take up again just after you got started on the Fayum mummy portraits (months after the fact); e) when you are edit-warring as we speak on the Fayum mummy portraits even though you have displayed no knowledge of the topic whatsoever (or for that matter any Egyptian topic besides the "black Egypt" [sic] one) to support the now blocked for-I-don't-know-how-many-number-of-times editor who has single-purposely edit-warred over the same topic since he created (what I strongly suspect is one of) his account(s).

a. Adding an image to show the diversity of Egyptians and reinserting it twice when it reverted without explanation, while participating in discussion on the talk page is not edit-warring. It was not deleted because I was not "able to prove it [was of Egyptians," but because the fair use premise under which it was uploaded was not correct, which I later realized (I didn't know much about when fair use was okay and when it wasn't then), and I therefore allowed it to be deleted.
b. While I may have engaged in many reversions back in late June, early July 2006 (perhaps more than I should have) on this article, I was not engaged in edit-warring, which is evident from the edit history. I was mediating and attempting to reach a compromise between Cquest and Dennv (both of whom were edit-warring) for most of my edits, while reverting unexplained deleterious edits by anonymous IPs for most of the others. I also reverted the addition of many images (that pushed a certain POV) that were irrelevant to the sections to which they were added (and you didn't seem to have a problem with these latter edits when you commented on them [ here]; at least you didn't let on any concerns).
c. I did not edit war on Egyptians and you know this. I made three edits on this article, one stating that E3b2 originated among the Beta Israel (which I believe was incorrect and due to a misinterpretation on my part), and two edits restoring cited information that you had removed. You claimed that the description given by the anon who added the information was deceptive but without giving any evidence on the talk page or in your edit summary.
d. Again, I did not edit-war in this article, if you actually look at the edit history. I definitely reverted once or twice, but this was only because Egyegy was removing (reliable) sourced information. I tried to include all reliable sources and describe differing ideas. I re-added the sourced information now because I remembered the article and chose to visit it again.
e. Regarding the dispute at Fayum mummy portraits, I never claimed to know much about the paintings, but I do know that Wikipedia policy does not allow users to cherry-pick sources that they like and disregard others that they do not. All I have done there is to restore relevant information; not once have I (intentionally) removed sourced information. I'm not editing to "support [Taharqa]," but rather to uphold Wikipedia policy. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


2. The Britannica is not as reliable as the Egyptological/anthropological sources, and I refuse to treat them as if they are somehow on par with each other, particularly after I cited a source that goes into detail about the people represented in the portraits, including names, occupations, whence they hail etc. Familiarize yourself with the degree of reliability of sources in detail, and you might want to learn how to properly cite--"Cambridge University estimates" is unqualified, unencyclopedic nonsense! In addition, quoting the Britannica, then blatantly misrepresenting it as a citation from the same source *I* used to claim that the people represented in the portraits were "mostly Greeks" is inexcusable! I should not even have to dignify that with a response.

Given that the Britannica is among the most respected encyclopedias and cites Egyptological sources at the end of the relevant article, it's against policy to treat them differently; the phrase "Cambridge University estimates" may be a bit awkward and incorrect citation form, but that's reason to correct the citation form, not removing the information and citation. I didn't know how else to source it, since Taharqa's citation gave no name for the author of the article or editor of the work. As to the Bagnall & Walker source, that was Taharqa's addition; the fact that both of you were using the same source to support different viewpoints (although not necessarily contradictory, since your citation for Bagnall & Walker only implies that the population was ~30% Greek, not that ~30% of the people in the portraits were Greek) lead me to believe that Taharqa added that citation on accident, which is why I commented it out. If the addition was not on accident, however, we have to wait for Taharqa's response and explanation, since the two points it's being used to support are not contradictory. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

3. I have said again and again that the sources used by the single-purpose account who inserted the claims in March do *not* support the biased and highly POV language used. Stanwick for example does not claim that "the province was of primarily Greek extraction" [sic], and as long as the sources are being misrepresented, I am going to delete those false claims. For once I would like for you to familiarize yourself with the sources being used (or for that matter the topic at hand) before blindly reverting every time an Afrocentric POV-pushing editor seems like s/he could use "a hand" at some Egypt-related article.

I hope you now get why I "accused" you of edit-warring in these articles earlier. — Zerida 02:14, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

If Stanwick does not make that claim then what claim does he make? You have given no evidence to show that Chapsut's (no longer a "single-purpopse account," apparently) edits are a mischaracterization of the sources, only your accusations. If you wish to argue this, you will have to provide us with some sort of evidence, such as quotations from the relevant works and a discussion on the talk page. I will contact Chapsut regarding this issue (who was active just a day ago and will hopefully therefore respond).
If you look at my edit history, you will see that I don't blindly revert to help out "Afrocentric POV-pushing editor[s]." My goal in all of these articles is to reach a compromise and to enforce Wikipedia policy (ensure that reliable sources are not being removed to support a certain POV). It is in fact you who has been violating Wikipedia policy by removing sources that do not agree with your POV. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)