Talk:Yi Sun-sin

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Contents

[edit] REVISE PAGE!!

Just skimming the article. I can see that this article needs revision! 'Eastern sea' is 'western sea' in this article, there is some weird english, 칠천량 is both written as 'chilcheon strait' and 'chilcheonryang'. there are unnecessary adjectives like "[the turtle ship] was 'incredibly' fast......

we need some good writers, men! a good writer needs to revise this article! People from KMLA plz respond!

also, i kind of think the article is a bit too long....maybe condense the part about his life... Rttrt (talk) 11:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Military genius

Apart from being a naval and engineering genius,i also think he was a great miltary leader.He also deserves the credit for building one of the first ever mordern and intergrated ships. the Turtle Ship is a good example of intergrated system,as it had all the things required of a ship.--Jayanthv86 17:13, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Seeing that he's such an naval battle genius, it's unfortunate that this article contains almost nothing about his tactics -- the turtle ships are obviously only one aspect of his innovations. Will someone be up to writing about this? Uly 22:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I am not upseting somebody, but there is some rumors about the "suicide". He really was a military geneous but I read a book that the "pan ok sun" where generel gives decree to the soldiers is protected with all sort of armors. You wouldn't expect nothing on the boat that protacts him from bullets,no! they had some kind of bullet proof shield.There for it may be the suicide.--kangk

I don't understand what you mean, Kangk. (Wikimachine 01:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC))
Admiral Yi's death was just an unfortunate one and it was very likely that he would have been shot on the ship, in the lead of the chase, and his armor and size would have presented a target for a Japanese aruebusier.
There has been some speculation amongst my Korean friends that the story of Admiral Yi's death was fabricated by Yi himself. A couple of points 1) the Japanese were retreating, why would Yi chase them? 2) Yi was not popular with the king at the time. Despite his victories, he was unlikely to be welcomed back by the royalty, especially since he appeared to be gaining popularity with the common people (thus being a political threat). Being an obviously intelligent man, why would he 1) chase after an opponent he had already beaten or 2) return back to Korea? The theory is that perhaps he faked his death or otherwise made sure that he was thought to be dead so that he could hold onto his life, rather than hand it over to an ungrateful king. Obviously this is just a theory but I thought it was interesting enough to be discussed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.176.97.151 (talk) 06:20, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Admiral Yi was definitely and a powerful genius. He won all of the at least 23 battles fought with the Japanese. He never lost a single ship and suffered only few hundreds of wounded and dead men. Good friend100 02:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Specials

The Turtle Ship was definitely the first ironclad ship. Japan never had ironclad atakebune. Toyotomi Hideyoshi just requested for ironclad warships during the war. The Turtle Ship was the first ironclad in the world. Don't listen to any bogus that you read in books that the "Merrimack and the Monitor" were the first ironclad ships in the war.

I also just read that someone wrote that Admiral Yi was not the reason why Japan retreated. That is not true!!!! Admiral Yi was the biggest reason why Japan retreated. His victories and the number of ships and soldiers Japan lost were too much for them. Also, Japan retreated because their supply lines were being destroyed frequently. Please do not discredit Admiral Yi because he is an extremely venerated man to Koreans.

Good friend100 20:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Is Geobukseon (거북선) really the first ironclad warship?

  1. Was Geobukseon an ironclad? It wasn't fully covered but roofed with iron plates. Or just the roof was thorny so that enemy soldiers were unable to take to the ship. [1] Anyway I don't know the precise definition of ironclad.
  2. Around 1578, Oda Nobunaga had iron-covered Ōatakebune (大安宅船) made against Mōri's navy. It was earlier than Geobukseon.

--Nanshu

  1. Oxford English Dictionary says that "ironclad" is "...[c]ased wholly or partly with thick plates of iron or steel." [emphasis added] But I doubt all readers this specific definition. The Merriam-Webster doesn't not specify this degree, for example. So for reason of clarity, I suggest that it to changed to "a partial ironclad." --Menchi 02:54 May 11, 2003 (UTC)
I changed it to "iron-roofed". What do you think? --Nanshu
It's very clear. --Menchi 04:11 May 11, 2003 (UTC)
It's very clear, but it's also kind of pointless. Is there any other such "iron-roofed" ships at all? The turtleship is very innovative and unique, but it's neither ironclad by a narrow definition, nor the first by a loose definition. As such, I think it's somewhat pointless to make such comparisons at all.

Unlike the Korean turtleship, the Japanese ship couldn't navigate in deep waters... Oct. 2005

Yi Sunsin wasn't the primary reason of Japan's retreat. It is because Toyotomi Hideyoshi died.--Nanshu 02:42 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

Uh-huh... sigh.... again, Japanese editors have started their discrediting of Korea in every way possible... Leonhart

Hehe, hey, the Japanese teach their kids an alternative history. It's not Nanshus fault. Some still think Pearl Harbor was a lie. An excuse for the US to invade Japan only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.94.41.89 (talk • contribs) 14:30, 28 October 2005

In reply to Nanshu, the boats you are referring to were not warships but floating forts and never were used in the open sea, unlike the Geobukson, which I know makes you want to cry but actually did screw the Japanese badly. Haverton

Also in reply to Nanshu, there are many evidences that Geobukseon wasn't an Yi Soonshin innovation, but made in earlier period, only fully utilized by Yi Soonshin.

I find Yi Sun-Sin in sources also as Lee Sun-Sin. Is this another style of transliteration or something else ? Sorry for my english..

Alternate romanization of the Korean family name 이. See Lee (Korean name). Yi is more common for historical figures. -- Visviva 05:57, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Just to say this before it is misunderstood...이 is not a romanized text. 이 is the actual Korean way to write "Yi", "Lee", "Rhee", "I" etc... Whenever something is Romanized, it has been transliterated (in other words, the sounds are converted into the texts that make it sound like the originial text) into Roman characters (a,b,c,d,e...u,v,x,y,z, etc...)
In addition, there have been some people (unmentioned, you can see for yourself) who want to play with history and suggest that Yi Sun-Shin wasn't quite the strategist as he was. Perhaps wew have to blame history, because we all learn it with different biases. However, it is very true that Admiral Yi was an excellent tactician and soundly beat the Japanese navy in every battle that he fought. If he wasn't, why would the Japanese waste their time trying to get rid of him from his post before resuming their attack? Why would the Japanese rout when he commanded in battle and soundly whip the Korean navy when he wasn't in charge? You can read most of these records from Japanese and Korean documents from the era (unfortunately, I have only read Yi Sun-Shin's Diary and the Yi Court's summation of the Imjin War), and most of them agree on Admiral Yi's greatness. I cannot dispute the fact that Hideyoshi's death did precipitate the hasty retreat from Korea. However, considering Yi's talent on the seas, the Japanese might have conquered Asia with all of the ships and supply they lost on the South Korean seas off Jeolla Province because of him.
So in one way, Hideyoshi's death did end the war. However, considering that Hideyoshi was withdrawing troops from Korea before his death, it was quite obvious to him that he couldn't win this war under these terms.
Additionally, the Geobukson was a first developed in the 15th Century to help defeat Japanese pirates operating on the east coast of Korea. While the innovation itslef succeeded, they were poorly equipped and maintained that the Yi Court scrapped the project after a few decades, calling it a failure. Just before Japan invaded, Admiral Yi came across the ship designs and ordered the construction of the ships. The point of this is not whether or not Admiral Yi invented the first ironclads, but rather that because of his command, he could inspire his men to do great things and achieve great victories, regardless of the technology or manpower available. No matter how much Japanese or Korean texts may slander him (Koreans did hate him, because he was against their particular coalition in the Yi Court), Admiral Yi's actions at the sea earned him a reputation as one of the greatest commanders alive. Again, even Western texts praise Admiral Yi, with one British author saying, "It is always difficult for Englishmen to admit that Lord Nelson ever had an equal in his profession, but if any man is entitled to be so regarded, it is [Admiral Yi Sun-Shin]." It is only a pity that his influence did not project into his home government, that would have created a formidable state to maintain its independence through the annexation in 1910 (although, considering the system in Korea at the time, it would have been a matter of time before Admiral Yi's accomplishments went awry to court corruption and incompetence).
Oh, by the way, if you would like to, you can go to South Korea and go inside a Geobukson and decide for yourself whether it was an ironclad or not. Then compare it to the Amereican versions and see how they are alike and different. I'm not going to say whether it is or it isn't. It is quite a hard thing to define though, so the best way to determine it is to examine it yourself.---DaeHanJeiGuk (2005.09.25)
Yes, one could make a very good case that Yi could have crushed Japan's navy even if Hideyoshi did not die and continued the invasion, but the simple fact is that Hideyoshi's death was the immediate impetous for Japan's withdrawal. Some of the invasion forces did start to retreat prior to Hideyoshi's death, but that's more likely due to the need to strengthen Hideyoshi's or the lords' internal position rather than in preparation for a general withdraw.
Furthermore, despite what many Koreans seem to think, Japan actually did not have a long tradition of trying to conquerer Korea. The whole invasion was something of Hideyoshi's personal pet project to begin with, so it was not surprising that no further attempt was made to conquerer Korea after his death, until the rise of imperialism anyway. To say that Japan kept its paws off Korea in fear of brilliant admirals like Yi is a fanciful interpretation. I realize that many Koreans take the issue very personally and take any suggestion against Admiral Yi's achievement with hostility. But it's my opinion that overstating Yi's legacy does him no service, and giving him a more objectified presentation does not diminish his greatness in anyway. Being neither Korean nor Japanese, I hope everyone can look at this with a little more reason and good faith and less nationalist passion. Uly 23:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Whoever said that Japan retreated because Hideyoshi died is not true. It is because of Admiral Yi. Admiral Yi's efforts to kill the Japanese forced them to retreat. If you didn't know, Japanese officials kept Hideoyoshi's death a secret to keep Japanese moral from dropping. Japanese foot soldiers finally learned of Hideoyoshi's death in 9 months after he died.

To answer Uly...Yes the invasion was Hideyoshi's idea, but the Japanese idea of trying to invade Korea has been their custom ever since Koreans made the regretful mistake of sailing to Japan and teaching them to become smart in the 1100s. If you didn't know, there are countless countless number of times Japanese pirates that have attacked coastal towns and killed many Koreans. Japanese imperialism has been in their blood for a long time. Look at today. Japan claims the Liancourt Rocks as Japanese territory when they do not have strong claims. Liancourt Rocks are really Korean. Japan is in a dispute with China over a small islet (cant remember), and they are not in friendly terms with Russia about the Kuril Islands. Japanese imperilism still runs today in some Japanese people. Good friend100 02:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regular Edits

I have taken out the section of Yi Sun-Sin in movies out as it is too contemporary, not academically worthy, and is not providing useful information. It just takes space. Furthermore, the movie in question didn't do well in the box office and the reviews were mixed.---WangKon936 (2005.10.17)

[edit] Unexplained edits

There have been a number of unexplained edits made to this and related articles by User:Kkkiii (contributions). In particular I point to this edit, which left the article to suggest that Yi Sun-sin died three days before he was mortally wounded. I'm not familiar with this subject myself but the user seems to have a history of these sort of edits so I would ask those with more knowledge here to keep an eye on the article. Flowerparty talk 13:34, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

It is true that Hideyoshi had died, but the Japanese forces were on the verge of retreating anyway. They could not march upper anyway because their supply lines were cut by admiral Lee. Of course, Hideyoshi's death has prompted the retreat but already Japan was losing forces because of Lee Soon Shin's strategies. In the final phase of the war, Amiral Lee cut off enemy supply lines, ravaged the Japanese fleet of 333 with only 13(some say its 12 but historical evidence proves it to be 13. Also admiral Lee sunk 31 or so Japanese battleships and damaged about 100 Japanese battleships beyond repair), controlled the ocean, and practically instilled great fear among the Japanese invaders. This is really unbelievable. Personally I think this battle of Myung-ryang is greater than the famous battle of Hansan. I mean, how can 333 ships fail to defeat only 13 and be completely defeated? It is doubtless that admiral Lee achieved absolutely unbelievable victories. Also, ss any person who studied warfare will know, losing control of the ocean and the supply lines is critical. Also, I don't think it is good to boast about not retreating because what ruthless acts the Japanese commited upon Chosun civilians is just simply too horrifying even to describe. I mean, they should be ashmamed of making war and butchering so many innocent children and civilians.

Don't start talking emotional. We are here to discuss the article on Admiral Yi. Also, Japanese war crimes are already known throughout the world and we all know they can't hide it. Good friend100 02:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birth and death dates?

Until we have some solid references for Yi Sun-sin's exact dates of birth and death, let's keep them out of the article. None of the sources I have at hand provide exact dates, although I suspect that if I had better references they would. There is also the small problem of lunar vs. solar dates, which requires some care. We're better off leaving this information out entirely than allowing the article to look like a joke. It's already far too much like a joke. -- Visviva 16:08, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

His death date (at top) conflicts with the month given in the paragraph below (December at top, November in paragraph). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jinnai (talk • contribs).

[edit] Deity of the Japanese Imperial Navy

I wrote that Admiral Yi was the deity of the Japanese Imperial Navy. Is something wrong with that? I know that Wikipedia's older version stated that.

Here are my sites:

-Wikimachine-

Those would be 4 Wikpedia mirrors, then? Flowerparty talk 00:18, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Wikimachine, I think you are wrong. I wrote in discussion page of Imperial Japanese Navy. If admiral Yi was the official deity of IJN, IJN ships must had altar or Kamidana of Admiral Yi. But actually all major IJN ships had Kamidana dedicated to Amaterasu. --Ypacaraí 01:31, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
"If admiral Yi was the official deity of IJN, IJN ships must had altar or Kamidana of Admiral Yi" -this is totally your opinion.
"But actually all major IJN ships had Kamidana dedicated to Amaterasu." -that is also totally your opinion.
Show me a site that disproves the fact that Admiral Yi was not the deity of the IJN.
You know what? I forgot what that Japanese general who fought in the Russo-Japanese War was called, but the person who he revered the most of Admiral Yi. It's not my opinion -I can site you the book & send the scanned image of the page that says so.

-Wikimachine

":Show me a site that disproves the fact that Admiral Yi was not the deity of the IJN." Come on, wikimachine, if I said that I'm a deity, and tell you to show me a site that disproves it (you won't find any because i'm not) then does it mean i'm a deity because you can't prove me wrong?

No, the correct way is for you to provide a solid source that IJN deified Yi, not just some admiral's comment on Yi's performance and character. If I said I admire (not deifying, just admiring) Caesar, does he become a deity for koreans since i'm korean? Likewise, Togo's comment on Yi is not an evidence of IJN's deification of Yi. In order for Yi to be deity for IJN, they necessarily have to worship him in some sort of way, at least the way koreans do the je-sa. I am not aware of such an event occuring among IJN, and considering how low Japanese thought of koreans during the early 20th century, I strongly doubt that it could've ever happened. Show me any evidence that you came across that made you believe that IJN deified Yi. Burden of proof lies with you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 170.148.10.43 (talk) 20:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Well, websites can not be reliable sources except governments' official ones. I know a site that explains how the legends has been developed through novels, memorandums and other readings, but it's written in japanese . I will search for more persuasive sources anyway. --Ypacaraí 01:39, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Need citations. Master 04:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I remember now. The name of the general, whose most revered historical character was Admiral Yi, is Togo.

Also, since nobody has evidences that actually prove the fact that Admiral Yi was not the deity of the Imperial Japanese Navy, I'll go on and edit it (as you can all see, I posted my sites somewhere above). -Wikimachine

Websites CAN NOT be evidences. You say "this is totally your opinion". But don't you know that websites are very often used as tools for spreading personal oppinions? --Ypacaraí 22:26, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
Wikimachine, it looks like you have to study logic before you edit articles on Wikipedia. We don't have to prove that Yi Sunsin was not the deity of the Imperial Japanese Navy. We cannot prove that there are no extraterrestrials, but this doesn't mean extraterrestrials do exist. If you want to keep your claim on the article, you have to prove it. The burden of proof is on you.
Here is an interesting report on urban legends about Yi Sunsin: [2]. The author tries to trace them to their source(s), but he cannot go further than a fiction writtein in 1925. So, to prove your claim, you have to present ultimate sources; otherwise we have no choice but to delete your addition. Good luck! --Nanshu 01:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Whether Kawada Isao's book is fictional or not is still not clear. The book also refers to Japanese naval officers' rituals performed in reverence for Admiral Yi, and that is undebatably true. I'd rather say it is the record of author's memories of his experience in the imperial navy though it is told through an imaginary character. In addition, the idea of a Japanese author(an ex-naval officer) trying to make things up to belittle his country's most famed admiral is quite absurd.


Japanese editors, please prove that Kawada's book is a fiction. -- SizzleYou
In clarifying Togo's reference to Yi Sun-Shin, he never referred to the Admiral as a god or anything. He simply said to the defeated Commander of the Russian Fleet after the Battle of the Tsushima Straits:
"You may wish to compare me with Lord Nelson but do not compare me with Korea's Admiral Yi Sun-Sin . . .he is too remarkable for anyone."
Just a little clarification (that will hold up). Personally, I don't think that the Japanese would ever consider any foreigner a deity. It's called national pride - Koreans won't call any Japanese guy a deity, and Japanese won't call any Korean a deity. I may be wrong, but in the nationalist sense that Japan was undergoing in the Meiji restoration, Japan wouldn't consider Yi Sun-Shin as a god - it would be too much a shame... - DaeHanJeiGuk

In addition, I don't care whether Togo said it or not, because it has nothing to do with the greatness of Admiral Yi. Thus, I object to adding Togo's remark in the article. -- SizzleYou

I don't know if it was, but I never put Togo's remark in the article. Furthermore, if it was, why shouldn't it be put in there, as long as it was true and had valid evidence to support it? If it is true, then it shouldn't be edited out. But for the sake of not having a good valid source (I can't remember the book, but a lot of websites have the quote, I am not putting it in the article. And more or less, Togo's remark is more definitive of Togo's character than it is Yi Sun-Shin's character.
And by the way:
"In addition, I don't care whether Togo said it or not, because it has nothing to do with the greatness of Admiral Yi. Thus, I object to adding Togo's remark in the article. -- SizzleYou"
I'm not Japanese, but that was just plain ignorant. ---DaeHanJeiGuk


He was a naval deity of the Japanese Imperial Navy, but abandonned after the Meiji revolution and the annexation of Korea in 1910... Japanese people aren't stupid, you know. They do have the ability to admire great deeds. But they also have a strong national pride. They don't even admit the harm and sheer cruelty they have done on Chinese and Korean people. They have even tried to wipe out the Korean culture, forbidding the use of the language and corrupting (and destroying) historical archives... --- yourstruly

Really? I thought so too that he was a deity before 1900s. Could you show me the evidence please? Because without it, the fact that he was the Japanese navy deity would be forgotten.

Plus, remember what one of the Wikipedians said? He said that he visited Admiral Yi's shrine before going to battle with the Russians. Why in the world would the Japanese have a shrine just for Admiral Yi if he wasn't a deity over the navy? (Wikimachine 13:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC))

Err. This discussion seems kind of hopeless. What's up with nobody signing their comments? Anyway. Firstly, in reply to yoursetruly's comment, the IJN was created AFTER the Meiji restoration, so to say that Yi was abandoned as a deity after the restoration is completely illogical. Secondly, there is no such thing as "IJN's official deities", period. IJN worshipped the same deities with the states -- the shinto gods, the emperor, and so on. Well known historical figures, Yi possibly among them, may be honored and their names invoked in rituals, but it's a long stretch to call them deities. Nevertheless, Yi is likely well-revered among the Japanese naval officers, as can be expected of anyone studying naval strategy or history in the region, and I will bet that Tago is not the exception in regarding Yi so highly. Still, no matter what Togo thinks, he does NOT make Yi a deity. Lastly, this is admittedly just my conjecture, but I find it a bit hard to believe that there is an Admiral Yi's shrine in Japan. Japanese shrines dedicated on historical personage are rare to begin with, much less someone who's not only foreign but also an enemy, who isn't even deified in Korea. I think it's much more likely that he was simply one of the many honored in a certain shrine that Togo visited. I'm sure if an Admiral Yi's shrine truely existed, all the Koreans will know everything about it. Uly 23:27, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, puuulleeeeeeeze stop going over board with Yi. He was a great admiral, character, and whole she-bang. But, don't try to put him where he doesn't belong as if Yi's better than every other hero/heroine that the world has ever seen because no one is. That's where admiration stops and nationalism starts. it doesn't belong here. How would you feel if Japanese said korean army worships some japanese general? stop stirring up the mud with heresy because it won't make koreans BSDs. I couldn't agree more with Uly here. -wikitorian

[edit] Consistent naming

I’m not attached to any particular romanization, but the naming should at least be consistent. Reading an article about Yi/Lee Soon/Sun[-][ ]Sin/sin/Shin/shin is confusing. So if you change his transliteration, please change it throughout the article. Thanks.

crism 22:14, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I changed the references to Yi Sun-sin that weren't in quotation marks, or in the title of a book or movie to the spelling suggested by the title, for consistency. It might be a good idea to put a note a the beginning of the article to explain... something like Yi Sun-sin's name has been spelled in a variety of ways, for the purposed of this article, the spelling Yi Sun-sin is used because...--Kewp 05:43, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
...because what? McCune-Reischauer (1939) strongly discourages setting a hyphen between syllables of name, and "Sunsin" is not ambiguous in terms of orthography and pronunciation. – Wikipeditor 00:02, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Google gives “about 32,900 hits” for yi sun( /-)shin, 14,500 for yi sun( /-)sin, 2,470 for yi sunshin, only 529 for yi sunsin and only 109 for i sunsin, each excluding the word halley to reduce the number of Wikipedia clones. While I think this page should be moved away from Yi Sunshin, it would be great if somebody established which is “the spelling most frequently encountered in English” among the eight spellings that together account for the 32,900 and the 14,500 results, namely Yi Sun Shin, Yi Sun-Shin, Yi Sun-shin, Yi Sun shin and the same without h. Have fun.—19:42, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I think Lee is Chinese pronunciation of Yi. Right? Koreans pronounce the name as Ii Suun Sin , but to fit it into English language, they spelled it Yi Sun Sin.

(Wikimachine 16:59, 12 February 2006 (UTC))

Lee, Rhee, and Yi are Korean and Li is the Chinese equivalent

Good friend100 22:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Admiral?

In the article why is he mentioned as an admiral when he was actually a General? His naval command success wasn't even due to him being an admiral but a general knowing the geography and strategy that could be employed.

Well, don't quote me on this, but I think at that time there was no such thing as a bona-fide "admiral" in Korea's military system. The navy were considered part of the armies, and thus the naval officers were generals instead of admirals. In this light, though, I don't see it as erroneous to call him an admiral, as long as it is clarified that the usage is more descriptive than official. Uly 14:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
In a similar light, the American airforce was considered part or a subsection of the army during WW2. Would we have to call those pilots or captains as somthing other than airmen and resort to something like "army soldiers who fly planes" ? For the purposes of the article, "Admiral" is appropiate. It would look odd and confuse a lot of uninformed casual readers if a sentence read like, "General Yi Sun shin, commander of Cholla province defeated Admiral Wakizaka at the battle of Hansan-do." For all practical purposes, Yi sun shin was an admiral even though he was a land-based general during his past military career. So by 1592, he becomes a sea-based general which in effect = "Admiral". It's really a difference of semantics than military system, IMO.
In the preface to my translation of Nanjung Ilgi (War diary (of Admiral Yi Sun-sin)), translated by Ha Tae-hung (Yonsei University Press), it reads "In the 24th year of the same King he was appointed Commander of Chǒlla Left Naval Station...In the following year, with the outbreak of the Hideyoshi war...was promoted to Commander-in-Chief of the Combined Naval Forces in the Three Provinces..."
And later it reads, "Victim of factional strife and the conspiracy of his enemies in the King's court, and the false accusations of Wǒn Kyun, the Admiral was deprived of his office and imprisoned (4th day of third moon to 1st day of 4th moon, 1597) for insubordination to the royal instructions and the field order of General Kwǒn Yul..."
Finally, we read, "During the war, Admiral Yi was initially in charge of the Chǒlla Left Navy Headquarters, he was promoted to be the Supreme Commander of the Naval Forces of the three provinces of Ch'ungch'ǒng, Kyǒngsang and Chǒlla." Hope this helps. --JohnO You found the secret writing! 04:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Top four ranking battle

I've removed the passage in the intro that goes something like "His Battle of Hansando is one of the top four ranked battles in naval history." There had been a citation needed tag there hanging for weeks, and no one seem to be interested in providing the citation. But I'd argue that even if there is a source cited, this kind of statement is obviously subjective by nature and should not be refered as a fact. And anyway it wouldn't belong in the intro anyway. If whoever really want it to stay, put it in the the section about the battle of Hansando, along the line of "so and so has ranked it among the top four battles in naval history." Uly 14:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

It's fact, but more like "The four major victories of Imjin war". It was some joseon king that decreed four korean victories to be named and made it official. so, it's ok to put in here, but citation is needed. -w

[edit] The historical drama content

I found the 'historical drama' content of the biography, to be severly lacking in basic english grammar skills. So I've tried to edit it out the best I can, while keeping the same information that the original author has intended.

Boulharouz the Moroccan.

[edit] # of cannons.

3 to a stern, 6 to a side, and 2 at the bow?

ridiculous. it was 2 to the stern, 2 to the bow, and 11 to each side.

i've posted the evidence. (Wikimachine 02:30, 6 April 2006 (UTC))

it's actually 10 to a side. (Wikimachine 01:48, 7 April 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Chinese role

It's instereting to find that in this article there is no mention of China and Chinese navy. Chinese navy fought a lots with Janpanese along with Korean navy. For example, in the battle on Nov. 19, 1598, Chinese navy sent out a fleet of 450 battleships, larger than Admiral Yi's fleet. The commander in chief of the China-Korea fleet is Chinese Admiral Chen Lin instead of Admiral Yi. And another Chinese Admiral Deng died too during this battle. But if you read this article, you will find that there is no contribution of Chinese at all!

Hello everyone. I made a lot of changes for Admiral Yi (check the history). I have just realized that you are right! The reason why I did not write in China's part in his story because I solely wanted to concentrate about him and his victories and his part in the Seven Year War. If you want to read more about China's part of the Seven Year War, I am planning to revise the entire article of the Seven Year War. Check it out in about a week and I will fill in China's part. --Good friend100 18:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
That's right. This is about Admiral Yi. China's role in the war should be under the Seven Year War article. (Wikimachine 18:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)) (edit: I didn't sign in)

Hello. I'm the guy that wrote about "ironclad", further in this discussion. The Chinese were completely indecisive, only to score victory in northern Korea, just because Konishi's troops were having a really bad day. their supply got wrecked, by our hero Yi sun Shin. Also, to remark other chinese embarrassments, an entire division, led by li yuezong,was repelled by the Japanese. another thing is the Chinese made more of a mess than the Japanese did. All they did was screw around, emptying the korean treasury, for wine and prostitutes. The Korean-Chinese allied fleet was in fact under the command of Admiral Yi Sun Shin, because he was the original mind that planned the battles ahead. Chen Lin thought he was in charge, he could have been right. To top it all, The chinese just got in the way.

Can you give me some reference? I mean, the original record or history book about the role of China in the war and the conditions of navy and land forces of the three country. I'm interested in them.

It's better to add some add more references including history books by Chinese and Japanese, especially some english history literatures from the forth country. It seems the role of China was abased. 'The chinese just got in the way.'? I can not agree with this. At least, land forces of China equpped with lots of firearms played an very important role.

I'm not going to refute your arguments because they are all true, no doubt, but your position is too biased. Feel free to write as you wish, but respect others. Oyo321 03:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but not let's not write a special section just for the chinese roles. (Wikimachine 01:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] General Cleanup

Just like in the Turtle Ship article, this is stained with commercial ads. I mean, who cares about the modern depiction of this prominent historical figure in a movie called Chungoon and display the picture?

Let's try to be professional. Look at Japanese historical figure- articles.

They are not stained with games and movies. They pertain to the historical figures themselves.

Anyone interested in this cleanup ought to read what I posted on the discussion for the Turtle Ship article.

Thanks? Don't you all agree? (Wikimachine 22:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC))

[edit] JAPANESE TRYING TO DISCREDIT KOREA AGAIN?

Look man stop trying to diss Yi Soon Shin off and sorry if im wrong but his name wasn't Yi Sun Shin or Lee Soon Shin IT WAS YI SOON SHIN. Oh yeah the Japanese retreated cause Hideyoshi died? PUH-LEASE! They fell back because Yi Soon Shin beat them all. You really should read history guys... Wakizaka,Dodo,Kato, and Konishi and the other generals got beat by Yi Soon Shin even if he had 12 ships left after Won Kyun's defeat! Wow one death in 'the "great" Japan caused the Japanese forces to retreat? WOW you guys are just pathetic trying to credit the Japanese and diss off Korea's most famous general in history. Cmon guys admit it that the Japanese forces retreated because Yi Soon Shin beat the Japanese badly.Then look again in 1903-1945, in almost 10 biographies about the annexation of Korea by the Japanese the authors discredit Syngman Rhee? Are they holding a grudge against Koreans? Ok i admit that Some Japanese generals WANTED to retreat because they thought since their Takio died they should go back. But then again there are those "great" japanese generals who wanted to kill Yi Soon Shin and failed for 6 years. So i urge you to not discredit Korea or its famous hero again or i may have to discuss this again..-KoreanHistorist

Hey hey we don't need to get emotional. I feel the same way as you but lets try to keep our discussions a little more calmly. Anyways, you are right about Japan. They (in my opinion) discredit Korea a lot. If you want to express your feelings for Korea, then a good place to argue is the discussion page of Liancourt Rocks and start your arguments there

Good friend100 22:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

KoreanHistorist this is not a place to become fired up. Instead of making verbal accusations, help us out on WikiProject Korea. It would be a great help. Oyo321 03:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

although the japanese discredit us a whole whole lot, it is in fact true that the guys pulled back upon the death of mister bald guy. nobody really wanted to have that stupid war, except for him. Big shot dies= Adios!! -odst

[edit] CHINESE ROLE

Look WikkiMachine or w/e. The Chinese or Ming barely did anything except just sit there in Chosun and get grains from the poor farmers. And WHAT THE HECK 450 BATTLESHIPS?! Those are lies Ming sent only maybe between 50-100 ships but 450? LOL. Here we go again Chinese getting credit because China is larger than Korea and Japanese getting all the credit because...what, because they have "cool" samurais? WikkiMachine i strongly disagree that China didnt even help Chosun at all. And all they did was conspire with the Japanese so they can get gold. Go watch Yi Soon Shin on WYBE. Theres a drama about "The Seven Year War" and what i see is lazy Ming officers doing nothing and chase Chosunese women. All Ming did was to discredit Yi Soon Shin AND conspire with the Japanese and get in the way of Chosun. I say again WikkiMachine i strongly disagree AND wherever you get these stories i strongly suggest that you look somewhere else. -KoreanHistorist

OMG are you actually citing a friggin MOVIE as reference. Now I'm not predisposed against any side (I'm half Chinese btw, getting that out of the way) but I want to see some proper and at least more credible reference apart from a movie that is obviously SUBJECTIVE. Whodhellknew 02:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

His references come from a movie but it is true that China was just as bad as the Japanese. Yes, they did help Korea defeat the Japanese but Chinese soldiers raped, looted, and pillaged Korean villages as well. That is a true fact, it is just that the Japanese did it on a larger scale and are more shameful for that. Good friend100 15:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to second that. Ming navy, though, small as it may be, did offer more help than the Ming army, which pretty much took advantage of Chosun's pitiful plight to suck up a lot of money. So I have to agree with Koreanhistorist, and everything he says is true-except that a reference to a Korean Imjin War drama isn't liable to be credible evidence. Oyo321 03:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Can you give me some reference? I mean, the original record or history book about the role of China in the war and the conditions of navy forces of the three country. I'm interested in them.

It's better to add some add more references including history book by Chinese and Japanese, especially some english history literatures from the forth country. It seems the role of China was abased.

fine. i guess the chinese helped out by logistical means, but despite a considerable amount of firearms, the chinese still screwed around. i know that korean books have this info, and im pretty sure the japanese have it too. if the ming court actually sent a real general, the war would have been over in months. the chinese did not take this issue seriously.

[edit] What the Japanese did to Chosun Civilians and Korea

Well in 1592-1598 the Japanese burned down houses and killed men with muskets and butchered children pointlessly, i should know because iam a korean. Also the Japanese kidnapped the women and... well... you know... So this went on for months and civilians were starved and used as target practices with their muskets AND the Japanese captured Potters that made Dawan (which was beatufiul pottery and vases that were worth very much) then shipped them back to Japan only to be treated like slaves and sometimes humble nobles. Also on the battlefield the Japanese were very VERY cheap with their muskets shooting Chosunese soldiers when they were charging towards them AND they threw their swords like spears and killed over 50 Chosunese officers and presumed dead or missing over 1 million soldiers and volunteers. Also when the Chosunese civilians or soldiers were dead, the Japanese cut off their ears or heads and sent them back to the Taiko who was the ruler of Japan called Hideyoshi. Disgusting piles of headless bodies that included children, men and women... THEN Yi Soon Shin got rid of them (thank god), but sadly he was shot by a bullet in his left part of chest and died gasping his last words and last orders... THEN on 1910-1945 The Japanese attacked AGAIN this time they beat Russia and China so they declared Korea a independent country THEN took it over and annexed it. The Japanese tried to get rid of the Korean culture and forbid them to use their language AND never ever to disobey the Japanese even if the order was ridiculous. After months of this rebellions sprang up with guerellias of Korean people fighting to get rid of the dirty Japanese. Unfortunately the rebellions were hopeless... Before the annexation in 1903 Koreans immigrated to Hawaii to work on sugar plantations because a church pastor said so. Then the immigrations stopped because of Japanese rule. So after a while the Koreans sprang up and cried "대한민국만세!!" which meant Victory with Korea!!! At first the Japanese were shocked because the Koreans were waving "illegal" korean flags and insulting the Japanese and holding up signs. So when the Japanese got over the shock, they gunned down the first line of the protestors and moved on to the next. Then years later they began to presecute pastors, and students and teachers and sometimes executed them or forced them into interrogation to "confess" something. The interrogtain methods were brutal. They had sharp bamboo sticks which went under the nails into the skin and hung them upside down and whipped them and did other brutal methods of 72 ways. This was worse than Laos or Cambodia when the officals tortured the innocent. Then Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and one of my friends who hates Japanese said "Italic text my grandmother was asleep on Sunday with other people sleeping too! AND my grandmother was almost killed too!" Bold text This was because Pearl Harbor was in Hawaii. I seriously wonder why Alot of people doesnt hate Japan and Korean hates Japan and China too because they made Korean a prosperous country into a war ravaged country.-Korean Historist

Did you know that Kaiser Wilhelm's real name was "Pookie"? I'm about 50% sure of that because I'm half-German. Anyhow.... what, exactly, do the big, long rants above have to do with Yi Sun-sin? If I didn't know better, I would think you're just spamming the talk pages for the heck of it. Anyhow, welcome to Wikipedia, but please try to keep your talk page contributions at least somewhat concise and to the point. Thanks.
Oh... and you spelled the name of 'your' country wrong... "대하민국" <-- see if you can spot the error. --Zonath 06:15, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Zonath if you think I was spamming and not contributing then look at my paragraphs which i typed. Also i spelled 대한미국 right and if Im wrong or right this page is called the 'discussion' page where were contribute AND discuss. Also Yi Soon Shin wrote in his diary of the Chosunese civilians being mistreated by the Japanese and the Ming not helping out at all so i MUST be contributing things that Yi Soon Shin saw or wrote. -KoreanHistorist

"대한미국"? "Great Korean America"? Okay, I'll accept that you spelled it right if you insist. Yes, you are right... This is the talk page, but I would say that three long consecutive rants peppered with off-topic comments (such as the whole 1910-1945 thing you wrote above) and netspeak (LOL!) would constitute spam at the very least, and don't really 'contribute' to the article much at all, since little of the information you give is verifiable or reliable (historical fiction TV shows don't really count as reliable sources). Yi Sun-sin's diary would be a good direct source, but in that case, please try to introduce direct quotes to support your arguments. I highly doubt that Admiral Yi used OMG and LOL very much in his diaries. --Zonath 01:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Again i disagree and agree with you. if you think historical "fictions" are not reliable then tell me if all they say on the 'History' channel about the Holocraust or the wars or inventions are all lies and i agree with you that i should contribute things more directly to the point. Even so sometimes t.v. can't be a reliable source even the internet can be a unreliable source like google and anyone can put anything on there. So it is my point to 'discuss' these things and correct them. Yes and I agree that LOL or OMG wasn't written in Yi Soon Shin's diary. But it is meant to capture attention.If you disagree with my opinion do as you wish because I can't stop you from typing in here since this is a 'discussing' page and a contributing page.And yes i will agree to type things more 'directly' to the point, but sometimes the past is connected to the present. -KoreanHistorist

Yes, Japan and Korea did many unspeakable things to Korea during the Seven Year War. And to Zonath...we don't have to be picky about the spellings and lets just compromise better.
Do you know what the Japanese actually did to Korea? There are a lot of things foreigners do not know what really happened... Japanese soldiers raped, looted, pillaged, ransacked, cut off ears, chopped off dog heads, kidnapped scientists, etc etc.
But i do agree with Zonath, Japan and China's crimes should be placed in the Seven Year war article or the discussion page.

Good friend100 22:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support. (Wikimachine 22:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC))

I agree with Good Friend100. -KoreanHistorist

rather than headless bodies, more like noseless bodies, man. i guess the japanese were pretty lazy. _odst

I have read this part of the discussion and it amazes me that a Korean advocate incorrectly spelt his/her own country wrong in Korean TWICE. But we shouldnt be criticising the correctness of grammar or spelling too much as substance prevails over form in these types of discussion. As to the substance, I fully agree with KoreanHistorist in all respects but agree with GoodFriend and Zonath that KoreanHistorist should have perhaps wrote some of the content in other forums as the relevance does seem a bit short. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gil1984 (talk • contribs) 13:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yi Equals China name

Um, I don't know how we will edit this if a compromise is settled, but WHAT IS YI??? Thats a totally chinese name. There is no such name in Korean. Why can't we change the names to "Ii" or Lee??? This is very disturbing, and I'm not tolerating the fact that Ii Sun shin is spelled with a chinese character as his surname. Somebody help me work on it or start a poll. Oyo321 21:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Yi is a Korean name while "Li" is the Chinese euqivalent. Yi is fine, but Yi does sound too Chinese and may sound as a Chinese person to a foreigner (which Admiral Yi is not). A poll might be worth it. Good friend100 00:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I didn't like Lee nor Yi. It's Eeeee.

The problem is that the name "Yi" is stuck and it might be comfusing if it was "E Sun-shin". I really don't like Yi because its so chinese. Good friend100 19:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Then we should begin a poll. Its incorrect historically and lingusitically. I propose we change his name to "Ii Sun Shin," or "Lee Sun Shin." If today's Lee is the equivalent to his name, then it should be the same for "Yi" Sun Shin. Oyo321 23:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Polls are irrelevant. Please see the [Wikipedia Korean Naming Conventions]. Komdori 19:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed paragraphs:

The paragraphs below were removed because they don't conform to Wikipedia policies. Namely, they are not neutral (WP:NPOV), they are not verifiable (WP:V), and they seem to contain original research (WP:NOR). Take, for example, the lead to the second paragraph: "The reason all of Admiral Yi's victories were so spectacular was that he had no choice but to engage his enemies at only the most advantageous time and place." This whole sentence is complete speculation, and would be almost impossible to verify. Much of the three paragraphs seem to follow the same pattern. I'm not entirely sure there's anything worth saving in the paragraphs below that isn't already stated in the article, but if anyone's willing to try, be my guest.

Much of the admiration for Admiral Yi stems from the fact that he performed perfectly under great pressure, the right man for the job at the right time. He is revered as a national hero in Korea, much in the way George Washington is admired in America. While the Japanese had the luxury of replenishing their fleet after their repeated disasterous defeats, Admiral Yi could count on no such support. Much of Korea beyond his naval base were under Japanese control and communications from the King and his central military command were rare. Once the control of the seas were relinquished to the Japanese and their land forces adequately supplied, it was clear that the Japanese march northward would be difficult to stop. Korea was one naval loss away from conquest. Isolated and asked to do so much with so little, Admiral Yi and his men maintained sufficient discipline and grace under fire to defeat the professional Japanese navy time and time again, a testament to his leadership. It wasn't great that he took so little losses in battle, it was absolutely necessary. Always facing a numerically superior enemy, Admiral Yi needed to plan and execute his battles perfectly and did so, every battle risking life and limb and nation, even when asked to defeat 300 enemy ships with 13.
The reason all of Admiral Yi's victories were so spectacular was that he had no choice but to engage his enemies at only the most advantageous time and place. He could have fought more battles and taken more losses, but he chose 23 over 7 years he could win without taking losses. His tactics invariably involved using complex currents between the many islands that dot the western and southern coasts of Korea to line up Japanese war ships in a row and hitting them with artillery. This eventually came to be anticipated as evidenced by the fact that Japanese installed many canon forts on strategic islands in the later years of the war, essentially eliminating these straits as theaters of war. Admiral Yi played high-stakes chess with his enemies throughout the war, always needing to stay one step ahead, patiently waiting for the enemy to give up pieces without giving up any himself. The stress and pressure of always needing to be victorious against very competent Japanese generals adversely affected his health and he writes of many health problems in his journals towards the end of the war.
The most convincing testament to Admiral Yi's greatness comes not from his numerous titles (including ones awarded by the Ming emperor) but from the admiration he enjoyed from latter day Japanese naval commanders. His fight-til-the-last-man spirit, tremendous grace and courage against incredible odds, die-hard patriotism and great love of country is considered the model of military and martial men for centuries after his death.

--Zonath 16:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Pretty funny, since I have never seen this section in the article. It sounds too patriotic, nationalistic, and lionizing. Its like some speech or something. I agree with the deletion, ridiculous from my perspective. Good friend100 17:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Cashie 13:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, can we do away with the bit about Frances Drake at the start?

It's poorly worded and embarrassingly unnecessary.

[edit] heihachiro

Togo Heihachiro? As in General Togo of Japan during WWII? I have never heard of Heihachiro, nonetheless compared to Admiral Yi. His article on Wikipedia doesn't even mention Admiral Yi. Heihachiro's place seems to be written in to show how "tactical Japanese commanders can be". Its inappropiate, especially for an admiral who killed Japanese soldiers, to be compared by a Japanese commander.

Even with a source, I believe that the comparison is not widely known and Nelson's comparison is the best, since both their strategic capabilities and similiar death are good reasons. I don't think that Heihachiro has a strong comparison or likeness to Admiral Yi other than they were both skilled at strategy. I deleted Heihachiro from the first paragraph because of hte above reasons. Good friend100 17:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe you're confusing Togo Heihachiro of Battle of Tsushima fame, with Hideki Tojo aka the WWII PM of Japan/General of the Imperial Armies. Other than that, I'm sort of dubious about the whole "his military exploits is often compared to other famous admirals" part of the article, since it's unreferenced, and doesn't say who does the comparing, nor for what they're compared. (Nor, by the way, does the article on Nelson compare him to Yi.) --Zonath 21:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh I didn't know there were two people with the name of "Togo". I deleted the section about him. Good friend100 01:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I have seen such comparisons, but it's usually done by people who are trying to introduce the character to people who know other admirals of similar strategy. Togo and Nelson are compared a lot, so as he's similar to one it explains why some compare him to the other. Zonath--I think you're right, though, about the comparison section--I don't feel it adds a lot, and perhaps could be eliminated--or maybe converted into links at the bottom in the "see also." Would that be too odd? LactoseTI 22:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm personally of the idea that this whole article deserves a thorough rewrite to remove or rephrase some obviously problematic language. I'd drop in a {{cleanup}} tag, but I'd really like to start discussing improvements here before outsourcing the job to someone else. As for the Nelson reference -- I don't think dropping it altogether would necessarily be a bad thing. After all, the article mentions that Yi Sun-shin is an admiral -- inviting comparisons to other admirals just leads off into POV-land. I say drop the reference altogether rather than placing a link to Nelson's article into the 'see also' section -- that's what Category:Admirals is for. We could also drop in [[Category:Killed in action]] for good measure. --ZonathYak 09:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Having such a comparison in there also seems to invite others to add even more comparisons, even if it's a rare or "one time" comparison done somewhere. LactoseTI 13:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Ironclad"

After an extensive period of research, I have determined The turtle ship is in fact, the first ironclad warship in world history. There is no tangible record in any other historical accounts, besides in the "Nanjungilgi" , "seonjo sillok", and other books I have yet to read. The Earliest dated Ironclad vessel dates 1592, which is the legendary turtle ship, constructed during the joseon regime. The ridiculous nonsense of an ironclad O atake-bune, is a false claim. The "Nihon maru", the only O-atake bune at that time, built by warlord guki Yoshitaka as a gift to hideyoshi, was armed with an Iron head to ram into enemy vessels, but that relating to an ironclad plating is highly Irrelevant. There was a certain vessel dating 1608 feudal Japan, which was an encased refit of the "kobaya" , that probably gave rise to the Japanese claim that they had created an ironclad vessel before the Koreans did.

As much of the world regards the C.S.S Virginia and the U.S.S Monitor as the first ironclad vessels, most do know in fact, they were actually wooden frigates plated with iron only on the TOP. Should those vessels be regarded as Ironclads The geobuksun, or "turtle-ship", deserves the title as an Ironclad vessel.

If there is any error in my part, please give me some correspondence titled EDWARD.

Thanks for your input. I agree totally. (Wikimachine 19:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Where is his image in the beginning gone?

It's free image now, nontheless it was deleted. the painter died in 2005. Anyone knows how to bring the image back? Ginnre 16:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see the old PUI discussion. Since the painter died in 2005, it's not a free image. Komdori 17:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)\

I just love how you delete images. Good friend100 18:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I noticed it was an unfree image. I hope your comment was not meant with sarcasm--surely you don't believe that the Wikipedia project is better off by violating copyrights? You are constantly putting people down for helping out pages like this. Please think about it.
In any case, I moved the free image up in its place; I think the article is significantly better this way. —LactoseTIT 00:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

thats nice. Good friend100 21:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You guys need to read this book!!!!!

I was looking around in a Korean bookstore the other day , and I saw this book about the turtle ship. It was this elaborate black book with a picture of an oversized turtleship. My computer does not have Korean text, so..

geobukson sinhwa easo yeoksaro by kim jung jin and nam kyung wan

Thanks for your recommendation. Is it in a Korean book store? (Wikimachine 15:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC))

yup, but i saw an english review of it. i forgot which website, so just look for a really ugly looking TURTLE SHIP on google images. ODST

[edit] Yu Seong-ryong?

I've noticed that there's no Wikipedia entry for Yi Sun-sin's friend, Minister Yu Seong-ryong. Can someone start a stub at least?

hes not important. screw that politician.

This anonymous user should apologize. (Wikimachine 16:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC))

dude, who deleted my apology? Yu sung ryong was great. I was just in a trance went I added the rude comment.Odst 02:38, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] oh no

what happened to the picture of Admiral Yi? Good friend100 02:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

It was removed by a vandal. It's now restored. --Kusunose 03:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] King Sunjo the grateful one

Recently, while browsing through the Chosun Ilbo, I discovered an article with significant proof implying that King Sunjo, after hearing of Admiral Ii's death, supposedly did not show any reaction whatsoever. According to the books of government recorders, King Sunjo did not seem to care about Admiral Ii Sun Shin untimely death. This is reinforced by his horrible distrust and torture of Admiral Ii. There should be an article on it, and I have inserted it. It is important for us to know that Korean governments in history have always had some loser conspiring and hating those who have accomplished so much. Factional fighting continues today. Oyo321 16:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False Depiction

I am also noting more and more references to the "Immortal Ii Sun Shin" drama. It is NOT an asset or resource to true history. There are MAJOR FLAWS in the drama, and it proves nothing, except the commercial value and the satisfaction of the audience, neither of which was fully achieved. Immortal Ii Sun Shin holds no true facts, and I will delete pathetic references to it immediately.

IMO, the drama was a typical failed Korean drama-dragged out and long, poor graphics, and terrible flow and historical truth. It was very dramatized, unable to achieve any great recognition. Oyo321 16:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree in some parts. Some of the battles were re-enacted properly, though the locations were not entirely correct. It makes the japanese better than they actualy were. the japanese didnt wear shoes, they were barefooted. The Japanese guys all had similar purposes and looks, but actually the halberdiers,spearmen, archers, and swordsmen did not get their exact looks. The officer's armors were that of an arquebusier, and arquebuses were nonexistent in the series. The guys from the drama wore costumes only vaguely similar to musketeers.

The Korean navy actually wore varieties of colors of uniforms, depending on province. the eastern army wore blue, the western army wore white, the north army wore black, and south red. The capital's army wore yellow. I am pretty sure the navy went by these standards. Those blue guys with the water symbols on their chests are fake, or at least i think it is.Odst 01:30, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Admiral Yi

Its either Yi or Lee. Li is Chinese. Admiral Yi is not Chinese. He is Korean. Good friend100 01:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Togo Heihachiro

Togo Heihachiro respected Yi Sunshin. This rumor was made in around 1960. Please look to understand this folklore. [3]　--ShinjukuXYZ 07:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't suppose you have an English reference? Thanks. Geeman 08:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I once attempted to remove Heihachiro because I have never heard that Admiral Yi was compared with Heihachiro. It is not like Heihachiro was a master strategist. Japan's naval technology was far superior than Russia and China and he was never outnumbered heavily or anything. Good friend100 14:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, if the reference is true (if Togo Heihachiro actually made that comment about Yi) then I think it's a good thing to include in this article. Heichario is, after all, a pretty famous and prominent figure in naval history, and WP biographical articles are full of such comments because they show the topic's relevance and later influence. The other question, though, is if Heichario did NOT say anything about Yi Sunsin, then how commonly is that quote incorrectly attributed to him? If it happens a lot then this article should acknowledge the error, so people can find out the truth. Geeman 23:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Recollection of Togo heihachiro (東郷平八郎全集) is issued in 1935. To our regret, this book is not being published now. (This book can be inspected at a large-scale library.) There is no record that Togo respected Yi in this book. Togo respected Kusunoki Masashige. Therefore, he is building the monument of Kusunoki Masashige. However, Togo has not left anything for Yi.
This rumor has spread by the novel on Shiba Ryotaro in 1968. (SakanoUenokumo - 坂の上の雲)
「余談だが、この艦隊が鎮海湾を出てゆくとき、水雷艇の一艦長が、「李舜臣提督の霊に祈った」という記録を書いていたものがあったように筆者は記憶していたが、それがどの資料にあったのか容易にみつからなかった。」

who cares about some togo respecting yi sunshin? thats just great. but who cares? it's not like some of the japanese are racists or anything......Odst 18:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia bios are full of references that explain the influence of the person in history/culture. If true, it's a pretty good example of that kind of note. Geeman 07:27, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That is not true, good friend. togo was impossibly outnumbered by the russians and outgunned. his victory was not master stratagem, but he must be credited. Togo was undoubtedly a brilliant admiral. (hard to admit for us, because we're korean) Odst 18:12, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought that the Russians were behind in technology against Japan... Good friend100 20:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The current link (http://www.koreanhero.net/en/NationalHeroOfKorea.htm) posted by anonymous user 218.235.213.190 looks pretty credible as a source, but if someone could post something that calls the quote from Togo into question I would be happy to write it up in a more balanced way. Geeman 21:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I was wrong about the outnumbered part, but the Russians had superior technology. But then togo had the sheer numbers, so he won. Odst 00:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

No way. You need to read history before you touch Wikipedia. Russians had more big guns and more heavily armoured battleships. Japanese had more speedy vessels. Russians used aormour piercing rounds but Japanese used shrapnels with high-explosive that produce large amount of heat. Russians were tired by long journey from northern Europe and Japanese wasn't. And above of all, Japanese far out-trained Russians so Russians couldn't hit their opponents. --Ypacaraí 02:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Look again. (I apologize in advance for that.) Thats almost exactly what I wrote. The Russos had the big bulky ships ( dreadnoughts) and the Japanese had fireboats... Odst 01:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit dismayed by the dismissive attitude towards Togo and the Battle of Tsushima Straits: it was a history-making event, the first time since Industrial Revolution began that a non-White people defeated a European power in a clean-cut battle using European technology (and the last battle of the battleship age that one fleet completely annihilated the other.) Let's give credit where it is due.

I've heard the story about Togo and yi Sunshin in various incarnations before--but almost all sources have been Korean and looked a bit propagandistic, though. Nevertheless, the circumstances are there: the Combined Fleet was anchored at Masan, not too far from Hansan Island, before the Battle of Tsushima. Togo would have had opportunities to visit Admiral Yi's shrine before the battle--as some of the accounts allege. Since Togo was a keen student of Japanese naval history--including the mauling it suffered at the hands of Admiral Yi's fleets--it certainly would have been plausible for him to at least make a visit. H27kim 04:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Son or cousin

When he was shot did he ask his son or cousin to take his armour? since were it talks about the invasion of japan at the time it says his cousin did but here it says his son did.

[edit] rv move

Its Yi Sun-sin

we need to keep this article consistent with all the other articles on Korean people. Good friend100 00:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that the move was done by cut and paste so I have requested a history merge by using {{db-histmerge}}. After its completion, let us move this article by usual procedure (WP:RM). --Kusunose 01:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] history-merge

I history-merged from Yi Sun-sin as asked. Anthony Appleyard 21:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Exactly why did you history merge when we are going to move the page back to Yi Sun-sin? (Wikimachine 21:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC))
On 14 October 2006, annon cut-and-pasted form Yi Sun-sin to Yi sunsin (this article), I asked a history merge as I thought we should merge history before renaming this article to prevent further mess. Now that the discrepancy of article name and talk page name is fixed and the edit history is in the single page, moving this page is less complicated than before. --Kusunose 22:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
we should request a formal move back to Yi Sun-sin. Good friend100 01:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources please

Uh great article guys. I know you all love the guy and all and he was a genius and all. I'm not trying to descredit him, but since this is Wikipedia do you guys mind providing some sources? We need a lot more. By the way why is his death not mentioned in the article proper but only in the preface/summary?ParallelPain 09:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

BTW, in English, isn't Yi and Eee pronouced pretty much the same?
You people do know that you can edit articles, right? Instead of asking for someone else to do the work, why don't you just edit it yourself? Its kind of funny that wikipedia is a place where anyone can edit, but in nearly every article, there are always people asking that something be done about this or that. Perhaps, the elitism here has prevented them from making any move. Good friend100 (talk) 14:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)