Talk:Yi Seok, Prince of Korea
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[edit] Latest Discussion
- Added NYT article citation, and added as well more information cited within that article into the main entry. NYT article was dated Saturday, 20 May 2006; and also includes two contemporary photos of Prince Yi Seok.
POofYS Dated 0:52, 20 May 2006.
[edit] Discussion
- Added Korea Times interview from April 2005 in Off-site links which verifies: (a) educational history; (b) military history as a serving soldier; and (c) current job position at Jeonju University lecturing on history. As well tightened up the first paragraph to focus on the main figure, and current job. Added as well material on how Yi Seok paid his own way through university by taking work and also helping to support his family thereby. Added as well the name of his university, and language specialty: Spanish; and the loss of many of his personal possessions in the LA riots of 1992.
POofYS Dated 07:40, 24 April 2005.
[edit] Earlier discussion
- One paragraph on biography of Yi Seok added chronicling parent's evacuation by US navy landing craft from Incheon after NK invasion of Seoul in 1950, and subsequent residence in Jeju Island. Updated, any comments post to POofYS Dated 04:05, 19 March 2005.
- One paragraph added as well indicating appointment as professor to Jeonju University to teach history to sophomore students which began in February 2005. Verified by Jeonju University.
- Citation of "Imperial Grandson Association" headed by Yi Seok which can be verified by checking official websites, where this organization holds copyright and origination of the websites.
- Official photo currently being processed, and public domain photo to be released through Jeonju University in a press release in the first fortnight of April.
POofYS Dated 04:05, 19 March 2005.
[edit] New discussion
Let's try to find some middle ground, instead of reverting back and forth. This man has had an interesting life with ups and downs, and probably we can present both the favorable and unfavorable aspects in a neutral way.
For 65.93.95.69/POofYS: you added material to the top of the page that had the appearance of vandalism, and was therefore routinely reverted by me and possibly others as vandalism. If your intention was to commemorate a military anniversary, this was the wrong way to do it.
Could everyone please consult Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Three revert rule and Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Also useful are Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles). -- Curps 07:13, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Older discussion
[edit] To the anonymous editor posting to this Talk Page
Please observe Wikipedia protocol concerning Talk pages. Add each comment to the end of the page (or the end of a section), and *SIGN IT* and put on a timestamp. This is most easily done by entering ~~~~ (four tilde characters), which the Wikipedia software will replace with your User name (in your case an IP address) and a timestamp. Also, if you are going to keep working on this page, please sign up and get login name. --BM 12:57, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- User BM,
[edit] Discussion
Note: this follows no time sequence since the anonymous editor had added comments all over the place, without singing them or putting on timestamps.
The editor of this article is not anonymous. Address all comments to POofYS
- The article Yi Seok needs to be written in a neutral point of view. This is an official Wikipedia policy. You are writing it with a heavily pro-royalist point of view. -- Curps 08:53, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- (reply) Articles cited are in depth, and represent articles from Korean (Republic of Korea), American, French, Spanish, Malaysian papers, and even the Wall Street Journal. This article is factually accurate and as the biography develops will be emplaced to be similar to that of Prince Charles, King Abdullah of Jordan, or similar figures, and can be verified by fact checking what are now becoming constant articles from reputable sources.
Citing these articles as factual precedents justifies the entry - comments on current projects of HIH the Crown Prince, or his publications will be done in proper "slots" as matters proceed. At that point, when it is matched to the official biography, which can then be cross checked to articles, and to Britannica etc., it will be assumed this article is accurate. In close order as well senior professors from respected colleges and universities will extend entries on the Yi Dynasty kings and emperors, and as well justify this to their own reference works, monographs, and current studies.
To indicate the nature of present concerns of the Joseon nobles, and their relations to charities, public works, and concerns is being factual. Prince Charles' entry indicates numerous charities and concerns, one would assume this is a good model. And as well nearly every entry on US presidents, vice-presidents, and senators as well does not merely stick to neutral basic facts, but adds a bit of personality and character that is essential.
- (reply) Apologies - the article comes from his press office which is new to the ways of writing to satisfy American encyclopaedias. Subsequent entries will cite official press releases, and citations from more neutral reference works as they appear. Point accepted. Understood.
- The hack of this article by those who deny the Korean holocaust.-- Discussion here.
The invasion of Korea by Japan is a fact of history.
Hacks on this and other Korean sites by those who want to deny the holocaust of Koreans by Japanese from 1910 to 1945 dispirit the wikipedia. Analogically it would be similar to those who deny the European holocaust, whose tragic anniversary is in the weeks ahead in which millions of innocent people were victims of a brutal horrifying series of events because of their background.
Just like the holocaust of the jewry during WW2 - there have been attempts repeatedly on this site to play down the invasion of Korea, the forcible removal of a legal Korean government by private Japanese mercenaries, the imposition of a systematic policy of the genocide of tens of thousands of Koreans by roving Japanese criminal gangs, and the imposition of an illegal occupying regime during this time, that was at last thrown off by the efforts of the USA and the allies in 1945 at great cost to both sides.
Denial of the Korean holocaust should not be done by those who hack this site and attempt to rewrite history, whether it is imperial history or history of the contemporary Korean republic.
Readers are encouraged to complain to wikipedia and perhaps also demand a lock at some point on elements of this encyclopaedia where elements of the WW2 holocaust are denied by either anti-semitic or anti-Korean elements.
- the article comes from his press office - does that mean this is a copyright violation? Has the press office given permission to release this information to the GFDL? Do you have acknowledgement of this? RickK 23:23, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
- (reply) ALL press releases are public domain. Photographs that are on the royalcities website are not used or put into the public domain until the intellectual property rights are determined - at some point there will be official public domain photographs allowed which will be posted on the official websites, and so indicated.
The difficulty with having the press office of HIH the Crown Prince Yi Seok submitting an article here is the constant changes that are unpredictable and do not allow an exact biography to be built without alterations.
The press office is preparing an official biography to be posted in Korean, English, French, Swedish, Arabic, and other languages within the next two months on the official websites. Elements of that have been cited, perhaps at too long a length here, as the Korean style of biographies is different than western journalistic style. The biography will be allowed to go into public domain in its entirety in an abbreviated version.
As well, there will be an entry available on the Encyclopaedia Britannica website in the very near future once they are able to do their fact checking.
It should be remembered as well that Korea is partitioned into two republics, and the Republic of Korea, South Korea, is a democracy within which the Crown Prince has no more or less rights than any other individual.
While fair comment is encouraged on all public figures, readers and editors are reminded of duties for accuracy in fact checking and factual honesty for the readers of the wikipedia.
No public figure is immune to gossip or criticism, provided that it is fair, as that is what is involved in the life of public figures. And that is what makes discussions exceptionally interesting.
(Posted on behalf of the press office of Prince Yi Seok).
FACT CHECK DOCUMENTS - verify this article as accurate.
Reference sources include: http://entertainment.news.designerz.com/koreas-turbulent-times-mirrored-in-life-of-chosun-prince.html http://thestar.com.my/news/archives/story.asp?ppath=%5C2005%5C1%5C31&file=/2005/1/31/features/10006427&sec=features http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200408/kt2004082618115611990.htm http://english.yna.co.kr/Engnews/20041015/320000000020041015140014E9.html http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030522-074807-6508r.htm http://english.yna.co.kr/Engnews/20041015/320000000020041015140014E9.html
- Yes that satisfies us.
THere is a great deal of information in these sources, as well as others, but you have selected only those items most flattering to Yi Seok. There are many unflattering details in these news reports, as well, and on the whole they paint a fairly pathetic picture. You omit all of these details. That is not NPOV. At present, I am simply reverting to a fairly short version with a few basic facts, and it is neutral and not unflattering to Yi Seok. However, if you persist in puffing this article up to turn it into a Yi Seok press release that supports his royalist pretensions, I intend to work on this article a lot more and put in all the information about him from these articles, as well as others. I will include both material that Yi Seok might want in it (such as being wounded in Vietnam), as well as information that he might not (such as the fact that he was a military entertainer, that he was a lounge singer, that he drifted around for years, that he lived in the United States and worked as a pool-man, etc, before eventually owning his own liquor store in California, that when he returned to Korea he lived out of a van for years until he managed to get a house on the grounds of a tourist attraction and become part of it, that his brothers don't approve of his pretensions to the throne, etc). The overall result will not be to your liking. --BM 12:57, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Reply: Sir, Within the next week or two you will be contacted personally through Wikipedia on this matter. As well, there should be in a very short time development of this site by senior Korean historians who will clarify matters, and will cite their own reference works. As their emails will be linked to universities, you may correspond with them as you like. with regards, The Press Office of HIH Prince Yi Seok. 04:15, 7 Feb 2005.
Reply: Pending information from the archivist of the Tiger Division, elements of Yi Seok's career as a serving infantryman in the ROK armed forces are appended. Operations in which he participated are left general, as there is a seal on Korean combat history at the present time. Exact details of regiment are given, battalion and downward to squad level affiliation will next be appended as the official biography is established; as well as specific combat areas in which he and his regiment served. The order of battle of the Tiger Division is given in the hyperlink, as well as http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rok/crid.htm for other details in English of the unit. On behalf of The Press Office of HIH Prince Yi Seok. 20:51, 8 Feb 2005.
Reply: updated, any comments post to POofYS -- POofYS 21:05, 8 Feb 2005.
[edit] A Prince Nestled Once More in Korea's Embrace from the New York Times, May 20, 2006
- Cite this article to be added to the Prince Yi Seok biography.
FOR a man who once ran a liquor store in Southern California and lived in a used car during a bout of homelessness three years ago, Yi Seok had a remarkably full day of official duties before him.
Lunch with the mayor. Afternoon art exhibition with politicians. Evening banquet. Opening ceremony of this city's annual film festival. Sleep. Breakfast meeting with the minister of culture.
A fitting schedule, surely, for Mr. Yi, 65, a descendant of the Chosun Dynasty, which ruled the Korean peninsula from 1392 to 1910, when the Japanese established colonial rule. Due recognition indeed for the last prince still living on Korean soil, the last pretender to an abolished throne.
Yet it had taken a bitterly long time, nearly a lifetime, for that respect to come. The peninsula's tumultuous century had robbed Mr. Yi and other royals of their titles, expelled them from their palaces and sent many abroad.
Among them, Mr. Yi has led perhaps the most checkered life, from his birth and fall as a royal prince; his rise as the "Singing Prince" on American military bases; his comeback as an illegal immigrant in the United States; and his fall as a failed monk and homeless man.
The most recent act, one of redemption, began in October 2004 when the city of Chonju, the birthplace of the dynasty, built him a house and made him its unofficial symbol.
"I feel as if I've come home to mother," Mr. Yi said as he walked around his neighborhood, dressed in a gold-colored robe and wearing a white mouth mask against the yellow dust blowing in from the Gobi Desert.
Looking something like an aging Jackie Chan, Mr. Yi took the mask off when he saw a group of schoolgirls, basking in their squeals and posing for photos with them. A woman in a car bowed to him, but others passed by with no sign of recognition.
"These are all my lovely people," Mr. Yi said, in English, with a smile.
BY the time Mr. Yi was born in 1941, the royal family had long been stripped of its authority under Japanese rule. Mr. Yi was the grandson of Emperor Gojong and the nephew of his successor, Emperor Sunjong, Korea's last monarch. He grew up in Sadong Palace in Seoul, where court ladies waited on him.
"At school, I wasn't allowed to exercise, so the principal had to run for me," he said.
With the division of the peninsula in 1948, South Korea's first government abolished the monarchy and stripped the royal family of its assets. Many Koreans believe not only that the Chosun Dynasty's misrule led to Japanese colonialism, but also that many royals collaborated with the occupiers.
After majoring in Spanish in college, Mr. Yi earned a living by singing. He became known as the Singing Prince, performing such songs as "Tonight" from "West Side Story" on American military bases.
He went to Vietnam to entertain Korean troops and suffered a shoulder injury, he said, when his convoy was attacked. Back home, his singing career reached its peak in 1967 with "Nest of Doves," a song about domestic bliss: "If you're as intimate as doves, then build the kind of home where you'll be entwined in love."
Known to this day by every South Korean, the song became a staple at weddings — Mr. Yi boasts he has performed at 7,000 of them — though his success displeased his family. "A prince has become a clown," an aunt told Mr. Yi, who then gave up performing.
A cousin, Yi Hyun Hyang, 82, recalled that other royals were swindled and struggled to earn a living.
"But I think Yi Seok was the smartest of the royal family because he knew how to survive and earn money, even if it was through singing," she said.
Though impoverished, the former royals had been allowed to stay in their palaces. But after Maj. Gen. Chun Doo Hwan seized power in a military coup in 1979, they were expelled and scattered, mostly to the United States.
Arriving in Los Angeles on a tourist visa, Mr. Yi stayed and lived the ups and downs of an immigrant with few marketable skills. He worked as a gardener. He cleaned pools in Beverly Hills. In a marriage of convenience, he paid $15,000, he said, to a Korean-American woman for a Las Vegas wedding and a green card.
Together, they ran Eddy's Liquor Store, where Mr. Yi greeted customers with, "Gimme five, man!" His college Spanish also helped him establish friendly ties with Mexican-Americans. The store was robbed 15 times, he added.
An aunt's funeral brought him back to South Korea in 1989, and he decided to stay, becoming the Chosun Dynasty's last male heir in Korea. (His son, from one of his three marriages, lives in the United States.)
In Seoul, after guards barred him from re-entering his old palace, he climbed over the wall and squatted inside for several days.
"My suit got damp from the humidity, and I thought I'd get sick, so eventually I left," Mr. Yi said.
TIME passed. He flitted from place to place. A friend sometimes gave him $10,000 at a time, Mr. Yi's cousin said. He lived in a temple for a few years with the intention of becoming a monk, but he would go out drinking late and return to find the temple door closed.
"I attempted suicide eight times," Mr. Yi recalled. "I was getting old. Nobody recognized me. They wouldn't give me a home in the palace."
He was going through a particularly bad stretch in 2003, living mostly in bathhouses and contemplating suicide again, when a reporter tracked him down. The reporter, Lee Beom Jin, of the Weekly Chosun, wrote an article in May with the title "Last Prince Yi Seok Sojourning in Chimchil-bang," or bathhouse.
Humiliated, Mr. Yi began sleeping instead in his battered car.
The article, though, led to his comeback. Chonju City — which had been trying to build up its tourism industry and wanted to highlight its ties to the Chosun Dynasty — offered him a house in its historic section. The city and supporters in the newly formed Imperial Grandson Association went to work.
A local hotel put him up. A fashion designer gave him a makeover. Kang Kyeong Chang, a dentist, began the process of implanting 10 new teeth.
Mr. Yi now gives lectures on the royal family at various universities. The night before, after a lecture in Seoul, he had driven his car five hours to return here, at 5 a.m., to his three-room house.
With only a few hours' sleep, by the time the opening ceremony for the seventh annual Chonju International Film Festival began at 7 p.m., Mr. Yi was tired. Perhaps because of fatigue, perhaps because he did not attract squeals from the young film fans on either side of the red carpet, he sat quietly in his chair.
After the ceremony, Mr. Yi got into the front passenger seat of a black sedan driven by one of his supporters, Jang Young Il.
As he began driving, Mr. Jang said he had been unable to park the car in the basement. A guard had told him basement parking was "only for stars."
"I told him: 'Yi Seok is a star. He sang "Nest of Doves," ' " Mr. Jang told Mr. Yi.
Mr. Yi sat silently. "It's O.K.," he said finally, speaking softly into his mouth mask. "That was a long time ago."
Bnguyen 15:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
