Talk:Yemenite Jews

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 Yemenite Jews was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: December 18, 2007
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I have read that the Yemenite Jews are the only group to continue to have knowledge of which insects are kosher. Anyone know the details? Rmhermen 23:04, Mar 30, 2004 (UTC)

It is recorded in the Mishneh Torah L'Rambam the specifications as to what indicates certain locusts (grasshoppers) as being kosher. The basic difference between Yemenites and most other Jewish communities is that Yemenite Jews put the laws codified in the Mishneh Torah concerning kosher locusts into practice. I've heard that certain groups of Morrocan Jews also did so.

Greetings, I would appreciate IPA letters to show the difference between Sanaani and Sharabi "dialects". This involves Gimel (with and without Dagesh), and Kof. I also would appreciate IPA on "Sin" (dot above on left) as it is difficult to get sound data on it for Yemenite Hebrew. WRITTEN BY: amateur Hebrew student and author of http://e.domaindlx.com/hebrewtalk/hebrewtalk.htm

72.64.97.254 16:56, 4 July 2007 (UTC)ll−== problems with accuracy ==

The "Operation Magic Carpet" section ties the emigration of the Yemeni Jews to the massacre in Aden. This is not historically accurate since Aden was not even part of Yemen at the time. It had been under British rule for more than 100 years. --Zero 05:00, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The addition of the riots in Aden was only added to describe the conditions of the times in the region. You can edit the wording if you feel there is a need for some clarification. --EhavEliyahu 21:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I will do that later (I'm 10K miles from home and have no time now). My objection is that the riots in Aden do not describe the conditions of the time in Yemen. In fact there was very little violence in Yemen at that time. --Zero 03:08, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Yemenite or Yemeni?

Why is the article called "Yemenite Jews" and not "Yemeni Jews"? Is there a difference? Jidan 11:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

In English Teimanim are normally called Yemenite. There aren't a whole lot of people that say Yemeni Jews.--EhavEliyahu 19:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
The form Yemeni is more used in British English and the form Yemenite is more used in American English. Both forms are usable. -- Olve 20:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe that Yemenite is the English term while Yemeni is the Arabic term. The Hebrew term being Temani (notice the 'ni' at the end as opposed to 'nite') -- 22:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I believe in Arabic would be pronounced Yamani not Yemeni.--EhavEliyahu 23:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I believe that in Arabic the word would be يمني . so in the long run, transliteration isn't worth arguing about. --Kızılderili 02:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Greetings Kizilderili. It isn't an arguement just a clarification. I agree that in Arabic it is spelled ﻲﻨﻤﻳ but the transliteration would still be "Yamani" or "Yamaneyy" depending on what school of transliteration you go by. Just as "Al-Yaman" i.e. Yemen is spelled ﻦﻤﻴﻟﺍ The vowel in the word is "a" i.e. Fatha. Not debating, just clarifying.--EhavEliyahu 07:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
No problem, Ehav. I agree with you on the point of actual pronunciation. But, given that in English, the word is pronounced as with the letter e, and not a short a, that's probably the msot logical way to refer to them in an "Arabic" context....I'm not sure if that made any sense...--Kızılderili 16:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need a section on Yemenites in modern Jewish culture

I think this article needs a section on the influence that Yemenite Jewery has had on modern Israeli and Jewish culture. Any ideas on what could be added for this?--EhavEliyahu 17:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adenite Jews

Firstly let me say how well this article has been written and maintained.

I don't know any details about this but I am 100% certain that there are relegious differences between Jews from Aden and Jews from other parts of Yemen (Yemenite Jews). I have been told this by several Adenite Jews. I am sorry that I don't have any details but I just thought that saying something is better than not saying anything about the matter. Hopefully someone reading this will know more than me about the subject and create a new artical about this group of Jews, their history, and religious practices. -- 22:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I have heard of similar differences as well from the Jewish community here. Keep in mind that the two communities literally existed in two different countries for some time, and the highland culture of Yemen can be contrasted to the valley culture of the Hadhramaut. Shlomo Mizrahi 06:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Copyvio problems

I removed the "Operation Magic Carpet" section. Aside from neutrality and accuracy problems, the section was taken from this web site [1].

Looking throught the article's history, I noticed the same user who added "Operation Magic Carpet" section also added most or maybe all of the other content. Therefore, the entire article may be consisting (or partly consisting) of plagiarized content. Perhaps there needs to be a complete rewrite of the article to best ensure that there are no copyvio problems?? --Inahet 15:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe that I am the one you are referring to. I added that information a while back, but didn't have the time to do some edits, but for the most part I linked the areas where some of the information came from. In terms of the Magic carpet information, there was someone who mentioned they were going to re-write the information based on what they know of the situation. I have more time now so I can do some re-writes of the information.
In terms of additional sources, what information exactly do you feel is not sourced?--EhavEliyahu 18:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that you cannot take the work of others and place them in a Wikipedia article. Even attributing the information by adding a link to the source is not going to make it okay. You can paraphrase or even take direct quotations but you must attribute it to the source directly. If you use the web site as a reference/source to write the section in your own words, then there is no need to attribute it directly, just place a link under Sources or References. If your intent was to use this information as a reference for which you plan to write on the subject, create a sub page of your user page and paste the information there. When you're done, you can add your material to this article.
"In terms of additional sources, what information exactly do you feel is not sourced?" I was hoping you would tell me what was copied. At this point I think you should remove all the information taken from other web sites. Needless to say, you can use them as sources but you cannot copy the work directly. --Inahet 19:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I have taken out the two sections that were copied. I am now going in and added the sources for the other informaiton in the article. I will finish added the sources tomorrow and will work on a revised version of the Operation Magic Carpet--EhavEliyahu 23:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sanaite?

Whosoever wrote this article introduces the term Sanaite Jews without once explaining what that means.

It means jews who come from Sanaa in Yemen. Jidan 16:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
The article is still in progress so there are a number of things that can be explored in more detail.--EhavEliyahu 19:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe it would be an excellent addition to add source information pertaining to where details of the legend of the Sanaaite Jews may be obtained. Certainly it is recorded somewhere within their historical writings, correct? LGAcheson 17:33, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asia in topic

Can this article be moved to History of the Jews in Yemen like all the other similar articles? This way it also fits the template. NYC2TLV 10:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this article is still valid the way it is. There are articles similar to it like Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Beta Israel, etc.--EhavEliyahu 20:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remaining Jews in Yemen?

שלום אחיי - I suppose the answer to this question will probably be 'no' (although I hope it won't), but: are there any remaining Jews in Yemen? What conditions do they live and worship in? It'd be good if we can include some information on this in the article! Thx&greetings from foggy Manchester, FreshBreeze 22:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The information about the Jews who remain in Yemen is sparse. People with travel to Israel or with Israeli passports are not allowed to visit the Jews there. The only Jews allowed in are ones who are anti-Zionist. So there is not going to be a dearth of information about the few Jews who are still there.--EhavEliyahu 19:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The original ethnic Jews look like these Yemenite Jews (black hair and olive skin), together with the traditional costumes they're wearing. The ones you often see today with ligther complexion with the black suit piece and broad-brimmed hat are the Ashkenazi or Shepardi (European) Jews (e.g. Adam Sandler, Paul Newman, Bitty Schram and Jemima Khan) - as there have been common intermarriage ever since the Jews set foot in Europe. --Fantastic4boy 09:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dead Links

The table at the bottom, History of the Jews in Asia, contains overwhelmingly dead links to non-articles. Should this be deleted? Shlomo Mizrahi 06:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

  • The following sentence, at the end of the "History of the Community" section, is controversial and significant, and requires appropriate citation if it is to be kept: "They would later be accused of taking the children away from their parents, inoculating the children with secular philosophy, and forcing them to abandon their 2,000+ years traditions of maintaining long peyot and other Orthodox Jewish religious customs." Newacct 02:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I deleted it.--EhavEliyahu 03:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] persecution by islam

i fail to understand why all the history on this is left out without even a footnote mention on the english wiki. Jaakobou 15:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Mainly because the article is not in a finished state. If you have information you want to add please do. Thanks.--EhavEliyahu 04:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not a Yemanite or a Yemenite Jews expert, but such attrocities as the Maoze exlie/genocide and the decree mentioned in the hope-simpson document should be in this article... i hope someone will either do the research or call out a relative for that information. Jaakobou 00:56, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] their present state

i honestly thing their welfare in israel should be included in this article, how they were not easily assimilated to israeli-ashkenazi society and the stories of Yemenite children being stolen during operation magic carpet, as well as their genetic-ethnic relations to yemenite gentiles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.171.33.101 (talk) 06:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree. I think we should add the "genetic-ethnic relations" information to all the other articles pertaining to other Jewish communities as well. Let's begin with the article on the Jewish community of greatest population: Ashkenazim. They have a section linking their genetic roots to the Middle East, but how about some info. pertaining to their genetic-ethnic relations to European non-Jews?

Yosef [a blonde-hair blue-eyed Jew] ;) Omedyashar 12:42, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

What you can do is go to the Kohen-Levi web-site and they have a lot of information about Ashkenazim and their connection to other Jewish communities. The information I added for this, the Yemenite article, I found on the internet. So there are a number of sources that can be added to the Ashkenazi article.--EhavEliyahu 16:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Status

The article has passed Sections 5) and 6). Work is needed on Sections 1), 2), 3) and 4).

Overall, the assessment is ON HOLD.

#done segments <-> #needs to be done. JaakobouChalk Talk 18:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] done segments

[edit] needs to be done

2) Accuracy

Early History section

  • Entire section needs referencing. You cannot refer to "traditions" or "legends" References must be provided. Where do these legends and traditions come from ? You must have got them from somewhere ? Ensure that the entire section is correctly referenced as per WP:CITET]. Article will fail otherwise.

Yemenite Jews and Maimonides section

  • The sentence starting "The average Jewish population,,,,,," does not make sense. How could it have possibly been only 3,000 particularly since the Early History section talks of the Jews actually ruling the country ? Rewrite and re-reference.
  • Expand the sentence "When Saladin became sultan,,,,," Why did the trials of the Jews begin if Saladin was in conflict with Shi'ites ? It needs to be explained.
  • Give a reference for the claim that the condition of the Jews was "miserable".
  • Give a reference for the claim "they were said to have numbered 30,000"

Religious traditions section

  • Sad'a is a non-existent link.
  • Explain "Ma'lamed"

Form of Hebrew section

  • Add a reference for the claim "which he rules is correct"
  • Add a reference for the claim *misunderstanding of Saadia Gaon's words"

Writings section

  • Expain "after the Spanish school"

DNA Testing section

  • Wiki-link "haplotype"

References

  • All books listed must have ISBN numbers.

3) Coverage

Write a new section "Yemenite Jews today" divided into two-sub-sections, Yemenite Jews still living in Yemen and Yemenite Jews in Israel. What has happened to them ? Do they face discrimination in Israel and Yemen ? How is the community organised in Israel and Yemen ?

4) Neutrality

References must be found for the "legends" and "traditions" mentioned in the article. If you cannot find the references then delete all mention of "legends" and "traditions". Wikipedia must be fact based.

5) Stability

Article is stable without major edit wars.

6) Photos

Free public domain phtos are used. Good use of photos. No Fair Use photos.

The corrections, as specified above, must be done by 18 December 2007. Contact me when they have been and I shall re-assess.

Tovojolo (talk) 01:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

- first wave done by JaakobouChalk Talk 16:59, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

- breaking into two main segments done. JaakobouChalk Talk 18:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Status Fail

I note that, though some of the work, required to achieve GA Status, was done, most was not. I regard the outstanding work as being material. I, therefore, have no alternative but to declare that the article has now been assessed as a FAIL.

Tovojolo (talk) 00:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

to continue improving on this, go here. JaakobouChalk Talk 18:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Solution to Arabia vs Saudi Arabia vs Arabian Peninsula

Please see the following articles that should now solve the problems we have been discussing:

This took me a while to write, research and organize, but it was well worth the time and efforts I put into it to create clarity and avoid confusion from now on. Thank you very much, IZAK (talk) 13:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks very nice. I'm thinking we should consider making two separate articles from the Yemenite Jews article: 'History of the Jews in Yemen' which will be linked into the History article list and 'Yemenite Jews' which will have a small history section with a wiki-link to the main History article, and will focus more on culture and features, and also perhaps on the Yemenite Jews who came to Israel. Thoughts? JaakobouChalk Talk 21:35, 31 January 2008 (UTC)