Talk:Yaquina Bay Light

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[edit] Edit summary

Oops that was EncMstr, not me who fixed and {{fact}} tagged that sentence. Sorry!!! (It seemed like something I would do...) Katr67 23:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was you too! —EncMstr 00:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trevenard legend

This was added to the article, but has several issues, particularly reliable sources. Since it is expressed as "legend", perhaps a separate section is good enough?

“

Local legend states that in 1899, a teenage girl, Muriel Trevenard, was exploring the lighthouse with friends on a late summer day. When the group of teens started to leave, Muriel noticed she was missing her handkerchief and went back for it. One of the young men in the party, reputed to be a wanna-be suitor of Muriel's offered to go back with her but she refused. No one has been able to explain why. Muriel was never seen again. When the group went back into the lighthouse to look for the teenager, all they found were various blood spatters but no trace of Muriel Trevenard. Since then local legend has never been able to explain why there is no recording of a comprehensive search for Muriel despite rumors that the lighthouse contains a secret passage on the second floor that is said to go all the way down the house, under the house and out to the ocean although this has never been substantiated and blueprints show no such passageway. It is also rumored that this passageway was used by sea pirates during the time of the light's de-activation and that nefarious activity took place in the house and legend suggested that it was these pirates that Muriel Trevenard stumbled across when she went back for the handkerchief. The theory is that they waited in the passageway until the teens left and then, believing they were gone, came out of hiding and were surprised by the teenage Muriel whom they immediately murdered and absconded with her body. This theory is complete conjecture and local rumor and has never been substantiated. In what is considered the "Log Room" in the house, there is sheet of metal against the wall that would resemble a trap door. The room is plexi-glased off so no visitors to the Lighthouse can enter the room but Lighthouse volunteers and employees refuse to admit that this is the much rumored secret passageway. They are also hard pressed to admit that the disappearance of Muriel Trevenard is anything but local lore and may even have been a story purposedly concocted by the local newspaper at Halloween time as a holiday offering to add mystery to the landmark.

”

—EncMstr 00:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It's a popular legend, but it seems to have originated as a fictional story back in 1899. Still, there have been mysterious happenings there. I think it's OK to say the place is subject of a legend (without recounting the whole tale in the article--external link it instead) and that people have supposedly seen mysterious lights, etc. But yes, needs reliable sources (and not the dozen or so ghost-hunting and UFO sites I turned up). The pdxhistory or Statesman Journal articles would work. Katr67 01:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see the legend is linked in the article already. If someone expands on the haunting that is already mentioned in the article, be sure it is not to be redundant. Katr67 01:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm confused. I wrote the Muriel Trevenard piece shortly after visiting Yaquina Bay Lighthouse and interviewing Park Employees, all of whom asked that their names not be used. I went to pains to express it as local legend and local lore and went to so far as to photograph (as best I could)the "log room" and came here to post the photographs only to find the work deleted. What, essentially, is the issue that led to the deletion of this work? Any Oregon State Parks employee will tell you that it is just a ghost story and that it is not true. Links to the story do not provide the exact information as related by the Parks employees I spoke to and they all admit it was just a story concocted for a Halloween edition of the local paper. I resent the term "redundant". There was nothing about the work that was redundant and actions like these make it very difficult to support Wikipedia so some clarification would now be necessary. Sweet Talker 22:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

In response to "redundant", what I meant was: Please read the article and make sure what you add to it isn't repeating what is already said in the article. This is simply a good writing practice. The article already mentioned the ghost story, so that part should have been taken out when the new material was added. Now let me look at your additions because it's been a couple weeks since we discussed it above, and then I'll respond to what I think you should do next. We really are trying to help you, that's why we are discussing it on this page rather than deleting it and not saying anything. It's part of the process here--it's tedious but it usually yields good results. Katr67 23:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, the main issue as stated above, is the section lacks reliable sources. Unfortunately, interviewing park service employees is original research, so any new info you learned that's not able to be cited will have to be left out until citations can be found. Also, it "may even have been a story" isn't true--I think it's pretty clear the legend stems from the 1899 story and that this should be stated first thing when discussing the legend. Katr67 23:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm still confused. I came here in good faith to relate what I believe is interesting and necessary piece of the lighthouse's history. The story, as it can be linked from other websites, contains hosts of incomplete or just slapped together information. That was one of the reasons for my trips out to Yaquina Bay which will be getting more difficult as the rainy season descends on the Pac Northwest. If there is a link that shows the actual 1899 article, I'd be all for it. I cannot find it. As for the claim that the "log room" includes the trap door, I have not found that in any online research. The basement of the lighthouse itself houses the gift shop and a small "theatre" of sorts with bench seats in which a video history of the lighthouse is shown in a loop for interested people. It is on that video that mention is made of the mysterious trap door.

My last trip to the lighthouse was to photograph the "lamp room" as best I could. It's on the "third floor" as were and where the iron rung steps to the lamp room (boarded off for safety reasons)are located. The "log room" is right before the ladder to the lamp room and it is Plexiglased off. It's more of a eaves room or closet storage than a real room despite the fact that it houses a small bed, a desk, an officer's hat, a small lamp and a log book. In times past, the trap door was always closed. On my last trip, the door was ajar and I don't know if that is a vanity on the part of Oregon Parks to encourage the "pirates secret passageway" part of the Trevenard ghost story.

I understand everyone's vehemence in keeping Wikipedia credible due to its somewhat dubious reputation as a reliable online encyclopedia and I applaud that in some small way, but my contribution just wasn't slapped on here. I've explored, photographed and financially donated to this lighthouse for the past six years. So this wasn't some attempt to cavalierly add some reference to something I heard in conversation in a backhanded manner. A major part of the lighthouse's history is this ghost story. It needs to be told and in a comprehensive, factual yet interesting way. Let me know if you want files of the photographs. Sweet Talker 19:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was planning to rework your entry and restore it to the article (you know it isn't lost, but is in the page history, right?) But did you read the part about original research? I don't doubt your integrity, but unless you get your research published somewhere else, we can't use it. You're absolutely right about the credibility angle and we treat everyone from conspiracy theory crackpots and college professors the same way--if you can't cite a source, the information is subject to removal. And it's my turn to be confused because the link to the 1899 story has been in the article this whole time. Do you mean an actual scan of the story? Katr67 20:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Sweet Talker 22:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)No, I haven't published my work yet. Tried to. Coastal Living has yet to respond back. I must be using the wrong terminology as well. Yes, I meant a bona fide scan of the actual story. Either I'm looking in all the wrong places or it no longer exists but I haven't exhausted all of my sources in Oregon yet. Besides the "citing sources", how in the world do you cite a source if all you have (the reprinted story notwithstanding)are links to websites that provide spotty information. I still believe that this is a viable and needful section of the page. While poking around the Yaquina Bay giftshop (looking for whatever book I haven't already bought) no less than five people asked about the ghost story. The volunteer behind the counter was obviously new because she just muffed the whole thing up. The video and the old salts who greet you at the door of the lighthouse know each and every corner of the dwelling and set any number of people straight but folks are interested in the ghost story because they've heard it somewhere. Do you want the photographs of the Log Room? PS. Oregon Parks employees at the lighthouse are vehement that, despite the published newspaper story, the Trevenard ghost story is a made up story. They don't explain the trap door in the log room but they are admamant that the story is made up.