Talk:Yamata no Orochi

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Contents

[edit] Name

I've seen the creature's name billed as both "Yamato no Orochi" and "Yamata no Orochi", both in believable media. Are both correct? The S 04:10, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Hachimata?

Nnh has suggested that Orochi is the same as Hachimata. I've added the merge template, but I don't know whether or not they are in fact the same. Please see Talk:Hachimata for discussion. — Amcaja 14:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tone...

This article has been unprofessionally written since day one - it was created as fancruft and has remained almost entirely so since then. Usually "...in popular culture" sections are brief and to-the-point, but here it is the highlight of the article. elvenscout742 11:34, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You're free to attempt to rewrite it. -ZeroTalk 11:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article

This faction is the fact to me --129.186.167.132 00:53, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

From User:207.102.64.134, on June first, 2004: This whole topic should really be updated, as wikipedia tends to value fact more than fiction. Orochi(KOF) anyone? 193.1.223.151 was me, BTW. elvenscout742 14:17, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

They're all named Orochi from the original mythology. This page is an akin to an "disambiguation" in that it explains all the creatures by the name of Orochi because they share an common name. Henceforth it collectively lists them here. I constructed the Orochi (King of Fighters) because I was making an great deal of King of Fighters articles at the time and the character itself was becoming to large to remain in the article. Being fictional does not make an article any less sufficent to this encyclopedia, and the individual sections are too small to warrent seperate articles.-ZeroTalk 17:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
It does need an copyedit however. I'll get to work on it right now. -ZeroTalk 18:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree that articles on fiction are important, but this article is mostly fancruft about manga, video games, etc., and the bit that is about the mythological creature is poorly written, despite the word "Orochi" primarily referring to a creature in Japanese mythology. elvenscout742 21:42, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fancruft

I did some editing to get rid of extraneous fancruft and completely delete entries when the link was too tenuous. Anyone else watching this page, keep an eye on it so that the fancruft can't return. --speak togadren 01:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The fancruft section grew to about half of the entire article. This is not acceptable in my opinion, and I'm clearly not alone; none of the items listed were at all enlightening about the subject, so I removed all of them.
To editors: Please only list items that are relevant to the subject. "X appeared in Y anime" is not relevant or enlightening. -Amake 10:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exactly what is this referring to?

  • The Orochi is portrayed as an invincible chinese dragon that has to be weakened by light orbs before it can be killed. The storyline is nearly identical to that of the myth except that Kushinada is not turned into a comb and the dragon was killed by the heros, not Susano. The sword "Cloud brand" is also a reference to the Kusanagi no Tsurugi.

This is in the "popular culture" section. However, it never gives the name of a game or movie or anything. Is this supposed to be with Okami? If so, then this additional information isn't much more than fancruft. When talking about a popular reference to a mythological character, it's enough to mention that it's, say, a boss in a videogame, without mentioning each small departure from the original myth or the method to defeating it. --hello,gadren 04:42, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Unless someone can provide a source for the information, it should probably be cut. — Amcaja 12:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please pick an appropriate disambiguation topic

Hello, I was fixing links that linked to disambiguation pages. I found this article's link to Yamato, and I was wondering what topic would be appropriate to link to. If you have a topic in mind, feel free to make the changes. Once this has been completed, can you please contact me at my talk page so that I know that this has been done. Thanks. If you have any questions, please see my talk page. Ian Manka Talk to me! 18:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Merged

The following two topics were moved from the Hachimata talk page to here. Kotengu 21:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Orochi?

I think it is same as Orochi (Yamata-no-orochi). According to the description of Kojiki, Yamata-no-orochi has not only eight heads but also eight tails. nnh 02:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added the merge template. Thanks! — Amcaja 14:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely not. From the Japanese culture I've absorbed over the years, These two are not the same entity and cannot be utilized interchangably. -ZeroTalk 18:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I disagree as well. Hachimata is supposedly a Dragon with eight tails, while Orochi is an eight headed snake. To merge the two profiles, you would have to come to a compromise, which could jepordize the information compiled for the two. -User:Omega4590
Don't you mean that Hachimata is an 8-tailed SNAKE and Orochi is the 8-headed DRAGON? Anyways... they're no more similar than the Basilisk and Dragon myths of Medieval Europe.--Marhawkman 00:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
The Orochi is described as having both eight heads AND eight tails. Also, the description given in this article is precisely the same as that given to the Orochi. See the Talk section below this one for more on why they seem to be the same creature. Kotengu 21:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoax?

A Google search for this word will yield a little over a thousand results, mostly (if not all) just anime fan sites or this very web page. I usually just blame it on Encyclopedia Mythica, but the blame for this doesn't seem to be placeable on them. Anyone got a verifiable source for this? This article doesn't give any Japanese form of the name (more evidence), and Jim Breen's, while suporting the idea that "mata" can mean "thigh" or "crotch", gives that only as a kun'yomi, and so it would not fit in a compound with "hachi" (as opposed to "ya"), and there are no external links. It was contributed, rather messilly but still largely with the same info it contains now, as Isogane's only edit, and has only been contributed to in any significant (non-categorizing, non-stub-sorting) manner by Anons. elvenscout742 23:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

It would seem to me that there is no thing as a hachimata "eight-tail", and that it is simply erroneously interpreted as an individual entity, especially considering that the name hachimata would be impossible if the intended meaning is indeed "eight-tail".
In all likelyhood, "yamata" as in "Yamata no Orochi" is intended, especially considering that the entry here coincides 100% with Orochi's, except the last part about them supposedly being separate.
To my knowledge, "hachimata" first surfaced in posts on anime/manga forums dealing with the backstory of Naruto, considering the "tailed beasts", the Bijū. It would seem that not even Encyclopedia Mythica can be blamed for this one.
I support the above, that both pages should be merged. More specifically, this page should be merged into Orochi.
Any comments? Lemegeton 17:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
After poking around on the Japanese internet for a while, I agree. 八股 seems to bring up some mentions of the yamata-no-orochi, but nothing about a snake just called "hachimata" - "Hachimata" just seems to be a bad/alternate reading of the "yamata" in the orochi's full name. Since it's been months and nobody has protested any, I'll go about merging these two. Kotengu 21:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coincidental Similarity

This may be just a coincidence, but the Orochi could be considered the Japanese equivalent of the Hydra.

[edit] Stargate??

Why on Earth does the See Also section link to a Stargate character? I don't get what it has to do with Orochi. Dabarnes (talk) 23:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I didn't understand that part either. I also checked the Orici article and the only thing a group of fictional extraterrestrial religious fanatics has to do with an eight-headed serpent is the similarity in names, and even that is a stretch. Thus why I added the link in "See also" to the "Serpent" character in Golden Sun: The Lost Age which does have a direct connection to the story. I normally don't add pop culture references, but when I played the game I realized how similar the plot was for the "Serpent" quest and the story of Yamata-no-Orochi. Whomever keeps putting back in the Orici link and taking out the "Serpent" and "Blue Seed" ones does not understand how the latter two links are directly related to the Orochi mythos and the Orici one is not. A personal agenda and/or vandalism, perhaps? 67.162.118.167 (talk) 06:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC) Chris G.