Talk:Xhosa clan names

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Ah, yes, clans... Do you have any idea how complicated this is!? Praise names, sub-clans, super-clans, nations, all with confusing names (are the amaNgwenya and Bakoena related? Do the royal Bafokeng have anything to do with the Bafokeng sub-clan of Bakwena? Is my family Bahlakwana or Batebang? Or both? Should I care!?). Sorry, but I just spent the whole day today working on 1 of those 2 papers I said I would write, so I'm feeling a bit lazy... Try asking me a specific question? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 22:38, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Um, okay. No I didn't have any idea it was that complicated (I'd never even heard of clan names till I came across this in "Clicking with Xhosa"! But now I understand why Zolani from Freshlyground starts off a lyric with "Dlamini!" in Nomvula...). So how does it work? Is a praise name different from a clan name? Are they all hereditory, or are some earned? (such as praise names) And are surnames just a European import, or do they exist along with all these others? *Sigh* I've just realised just how much work needs to be done on indigenous African cultures - things seem to be falling into place in my head about the shadows you were talking about on African Traditional Religion, family, ubuntu, and clan/family/sub-clan structure... Joziboy 17:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, most "surnames" are from clan names (I think...) so mine would be "small shield" ("Thejane") and they are inherited through the male line. Although, when my "neighbour's" husband died (the family is from kwaZulu) it was a bit weird having to deal with 5 different surnames (the 2 sons, the wife, and the brother), but it was a common law marriage (not traditional or "legal"). Anyway... Most of the time someone mentions a small "tribe" they actually mean a self-contained clan (Moshoeshoe's Bakotedi, Mantathisi's Batlokwa, Shaka's amaZulu). They traditionally lived in close villages headed by a clan chief, who might be appointed by the nation's king (if they're part of a nation). It's only under extraordinary circumstances that nations rise up (like Difaqane) but they tend to be volatile, being kept together if they develop a unique culture or language (or not - just look at all the different nations that speak isiXhosa).

Many people have surnames different from their clan names, like people who changed their surnames during Apartheid (Grootboom-Mthimkhulu, Olifant-Tlou). I think they sometimes would have been earned by a great ancestor (Lepoqo, whose descendants have Moshesh and Moshoeshoe as surnames). I think it's only nowadays when surnames are necessary that people have diligently used the same praise-names (although there are some so ancient that no one knows what they mean). Sometimes families changed nations and keep their surnames (all those Northern Basotho named Mahlangu, amaZulu named Radebe/Hadebe, my mother's family's isiNdebele surname Miya). Sometimes, as in English, they're simply adjectives (amaZulu named Muthwa - Khoisan, Basotho named Mokone - Nguni) but I'm not sure if they have a different praise-name. Anyway... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 19:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)