Talk:Xbox Live Arcade/Archive 2

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[edit] Microsoft Points symbol

Use the Image:Microsoftpoint.gif now for Microsoft Points - looks better, saves space, and is more accurate. JAF1970 17:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Nice job, your change makes the games table look a lot nicer and saves a bunch of space. SeanMooney 22:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You can't use non-free images like that. See WP:NONFREE. -- Ned Scott 03:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I was granted permission, number one. Number two - don't vandalize. Number three, you're going to have to go to a LOT of pages which list MSRP for stuff, and price references, and Microsoft Points, and... JAF1970 04:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Per WP:NONFREE I must agree with Ned Scott. If you review the policy, point 3a states we should use the non-free image as little as possible. Point 8 states it should not be used for cosmetic reasons in lists. I personally feel that if the image tag were improved upon it could be used as a header, but not 68 times in the article. Big Merl 02:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
It's not cosmetic. JAF1970 03:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New category - User Creatable Content

As listed on the Band of Bugs oficial Xbox.com site. JAF1970 06:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upcoming games for Xbox Live Arcade

Once again, the XBLA page was getting unwieldly, so it makes sense to just keep the CURRENT stuff (ie. games already released) on the XBLA page, and move the upcoming stuff to its own page. This is only to keep the main XBLA article clear with some more brevity. Besides, having to update is now a little easier as well. The new page is at Upcoming games for Xbox Live Arcade, and I added the two spinoff pages to the Xbox nav box. JAF1970 18:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing - I made Confirmed, Announced, Unannounced and Rumored defined categories now. They were categories already, and just about self-defined, but it's nice to have a slightly more structured definition (ie. Confirmed means Microsoft put it on the Xbox.com page, Announced means they may have announced it (or other publishers have), but it's not "officially official" yet.) So on and so forth. JAF1970 18:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and a PS - the references list shrunk by almost FIFTY when Upcoming games were given their own page, which probably justifies the move entirely unto itself. (laugh) JAF1970 18:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Xblalogo.jpg

Image:Xblalogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 12:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current Games List Used to Sort

You used to be able to get a sortable list of current releases. I thought this was very useful (and updated the content to a format that sorted correctly) because a casual Xbox owner could come see what had updated since they last checked (which might be greater than the Xbox Arcade's 2 week or so what's new cycle). What happened to it?

Kirkjerk 12:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marketing/Promotional Trivia

This article is full of marketing trivia that serves the promotional interests of Microsoft rather than the reader’s interest in a concise encyclopedia article on the Xbox Live Arcade Service, including:

1. An entire section on “Xbox Live Arcade Wednesdays,” a promotions scheme run by Microsoft to create excitement for new video games.

2. Re-hashing a 48-hour promotion for Xbox Live Arcade, the giveaway of Texas Hold ‘Em, in the “Sales and Milestones” section. This promotion is both outdated (August 2006) and trivial.

3. Again, a few paragraphs later in “Sales and Milestones,” the discussion of Microsoft’s recent 48-hour promotional sale, including prices. History of sales promotions is trivial and does not deserve inclusion, even history of the service's “first” 50%-off sale.

4. Again, advertising in the “Sales and Milestones” section that Lumines Live received a permanent (contributor’s emphasis) price drop.

Note: A section on “Sales and Milestones” is appropriate discussing sales as in revenues, not sales as in promotional events.

5. An entire section called “Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged” which is basically a promotion for a game disc that “also comes with a code for a 30 day trial of Xbox Live Gold.” Insert exclamations instead of periods and this section even more clearly reads like an advertisement.

BlueCroc 16:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Um, no. For one, these are all important landmarks/milestones for the service. Your reasoning is curious, sounding a lot like anti-Microsoft fanboyism. "Marketing"? Shall I remove all "marketing" references from all video games when a "Game of the Year" or "Special Edition" version pops up?
Furthermore, you did NOT bring up the issue in the talk page. You arbitrarily made deletes without discussing it here. Feel free to request Wikipedia Arbitration, and stop instigating an edit war.
Three words: cease and desist. JAF1970 16:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Um, no... These are NOT all important landmarks or milestones for the Xbox Live arcade. That one of 95 total available titles, Lumines Live, received a price cut is hardly a significant milestone. Also, your sarcastic question about having to remove any and all marketing references because some marketing references are not noteworthy is a sophism.
Furthmore, you did NOT... I DID bring up my edit on the talk page, to give further explanation than available in the short edit comment section, as recommended by Wikipedia policy: “The talk page is particularly useful to talk about edits. If one of your edits has been reverted, and you change it back again, it is good practice to leave an explanation on the talk page and a note in the edit summary that you have done so.” Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines. EXACTLY what I did.
Three words: cease and desist. ... Watch the quasi-legal threats, JAF1970. Wikipedia’s own words in their own bold: “Do not make legal threats on Wikipedia.” Wikipedia:No_legal_threats . As for immediately suggesting Wikipedia Arbitration, from Wikipedia again: “Arbitration is the last step in the dispute resolution process — it is a last resort, only to be employed when all else has failed.” Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee
For now, a reasonable compromise is to put the promotions, as we disagree on whether they are trivial or important landmarks/milestones, into a clearly marked section on some of Xbox Live Arcade's various promotional efforts. BlueCroc 21:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


Agree with JAF1970. While I understand that things such as Lumines Live! receiving a price drop ("going on sale") may not be notable in the grand scheme of things, most of the other information here is indeed notable. Major events, promotions, sales numbers, and information about free titles all seems to be newsworthy. The information doesn't necessarily endorse or claim that, say, "Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged" is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it merely explains that there is such a product and provides information about what the product includes, which is a necessary part of an encyclopedia entry about the topic. --Slordak 18:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it IS important. Microsoft had stated flatly for the first year that the prices of games were set, and would never have a drop, ever, especially permanently. This is a major shift in their policy. JAF1970 19:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Blig Merk, stop editing articles on Wikipedia. JAF1970 22:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Do not revert my edits without providing a fair reason on the talk page. If you revert again it will be the 3rd time in less than 24 hours, which is the Three-Revert Rule maximum, as well as your third revert to my editing overall.
After you disputed my first edit as having “no real justification,” I provided my justifications on the talk page when I made my (smaller) second edit. You disagreed with my second edit and reverted again with no effort at accommodation. On my third edit I tried to temporarily accommodate the dispute over the relevancy of the various promotional campaigns to the article by placing them in their own section, as outlined above on this talk page. You did your third revert without giving any reason why these promotional campaigns should not be placed in their own section.
I am not Blig Merk, and don't know who he/she is.
You also threaten me with being blocked from participating in Wikipedia on my user page, after your earlier quasi-legal cease & desist threat on this talk page. Your threats are neither effective nor appropriate. BlueCroc 01:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Dude, you're altering the article unnecessarily - and this is the only article you've seen fit to edit. You have not reached a consensus here to change the article that drastically. Once you can convince editors who have worked long and hard on this article that what you're doing is appropriate, feel free. But since you're obviously new (this is the only article you've even touched), you may not know this. Persist, and I'll request a temporary full protection for cooldown. JAF1970 01:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Responding in order:
Altering unnecessarily… My edits are not unnecessary – I believe they benefit the article and therefore Wikipedia’s readers.
Consensus to change drastically… In my last two edits, I simply moved the promotional material to a new section rather than deleted it wholly, as an effort to “try to reach a compromise” while this issue is disputed. Recommended at Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes#Informal_mediation. Hardly drastic. You have undone my edits with no effort to reach compromise.
Convince editors who have worked long and hard… You are not plural editors, but more fundamentally, “Believing that an article has an owner of this sort is a common mistake people make on Wikipedia.” See Wikipedia:Ownership_of_articles for more detail.
New/only article you’ve even touched… Please see Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers. Also, my posts on this talk page show that this newcomer has responsibly attempted to learn and follow Wikipedia’s guidelines.
Persist, and I’ll request full protection … Your decision to request. BlueCroc 03:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
User:SeanMooney and other editors helped build this article. You are making massive changes without consensus. If you like, I'll request arbitration if you cannot abide by other editors. And furthermore, your belligerence and impatience are tiring. JAF1970 04:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, two persons responded to you - and even though it's not enough for a consensus, they both said no, which is hardly a consensus for you to change anything. JAF1970 12:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Focus on the article

Let’s try to focus on the article. Cease & desist type threats, questions about people’s right to edit this article, and then responses to those sort of thing, are not making this a better article.

I believe that removing information on the promotional programs run by Xbox Live would make this a more concise, more relevant article. The particulars on some 48-hour sales giveaways and price-cut history on a single game title out of 96 do not seem noteworthy.

That said, because there is not consensus between us over the noteworthiness of these promotional programs, in my 3rd and 4th edit I simply moved them to a new section that is clearly marked “Xbox Live Arcade Promotional Programs.” I did not delete them. I will put them in this new section again – you can check it out if you reverted my previous two edits assuming that the promotional programs had been completely deleted rather than simply moved. Please explain why it is inappropriate to put these promotional programs in their own section if you continue to so believe. BlueCroc 13:17, 31 October 2007 (UTC)