Talk:Xbox 360/Archive 8

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Contents

True?

"WMV files can be streamed from a computer through the use of Windows Media Connect or connected USB device." Is this true? You can play wmv with an usb device?

-Acgla —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sirsanjuro (talk • contribs) 20:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

   Yes, this is true. Is shows up under "Portable Device" in the Video selection in the Media blade.

[1](Scroll to Portable Device) Kmillard92 05:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Good Article Delisting

I am plannning on deleting the good article tag, before doing so, I am willing to discuss it here. I believe this fails the good article critera for the following reason; It does not follow the neutral point of view policy. --Mgillespie 13:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

There are plenty of one sided views, and in cases misinformation. For example, the great sales figures, with no mention of the dire sales in Asia and lacklustre sales n Europe.

Whilst we can agree that sales in Japan are dire, is it true for the whole of Asia? In addition, there is no source cited for sales figures in EuropeSpaceman99 16:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

In order for this to be an objective article you need to tell the other side of the story as well, namely the huge problem of consoles failing.

Provide reliable sources and I'm sure that information can be included. Syrthiss 16:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I am personally in the process of returning my third Xbox 360 which has failed in the span of less than one year.

There is an online petition @ http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?360recal&251 calling for microsoft to recall this product. The petition is also referenced on the consumeraffiars.com site @ http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/12/xbox_petition.html

Following links detail Chris Szarek's four failed 360's http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=53863 http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/05/the_unluckiest_.html

Is there anything else I need to include? Darrylhansen 19:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

None of those look like reliable sources. I'd like to get some more opinions on that, but 3 of those are not any kind of news source with external vetting. The Mercury News itself is a valid news organization that I could trust to be a reliable source, but the link is to a news-blog which are often more opinion than facts. Syrthiss 19:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Removed the good article listing, until some of the heavy fanboy bias is removed, and replaced with factual information. --Mgillespie 16:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this. The reason why this page is now fully-protected was that I was getting sick and tired of the stupid argument over whether or not it was shipped or sold. :: Colin Keigher (Talk) 16:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

English referance for Japanese sales

Anyone have an English source for that figure?Meow07 03:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

No longer fastest in Australia.

"The Wii is now officially Australia's fastest selling console, with sales of 32,901 Wiis in the first four days after last week's launch. It has eclipsed the Xbox 360, which sold 30,421 in its first four days after its March launch this year. And not only is the Wii the country's fastest selling home console, it's the fastest selling piece of game hardware including handheld devices."

[2]

Hes an administrator for GS Australia, but I know there must be something better than a blarg, I'll dig around a bit.--Signor 05:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I read it everywhere. In example, www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12109 should be enough. You can remove that part, nobody updated the text when this happened. -- ReyBrujo 06:27, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Recent changes

Before an edit war starts...

At least two things need to be addressed: the location of the {{Dedicated video game consoles}} template and the inclusion of the {{Xbox}} template. The Console template's current location messes up the references section and causes the list to be one column. And there are similar templates to the Xbox one on the PlayStation and Wii pages (Template:PlayStation, Template:Wii). -th1rt3en 04:11, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The Dedicated one should be moved below to the external links section, besides messing the format, it has nothing to do with the references. It may fit a See also section, but certainly not the references. As for the Xbox, up to the editors of this page. I am moving the Dedicated one somewhere else as it works against the usability of the article. -- ReyBrujo 05:42, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Recent anonymous edits

To the recent (non-vandal) anonymous editors: please put SOMETHING in your edit summaries to explain the changes you are making. I'd leave this message on individual talk pages, but there are quite a few different anons. - (Nuggetboy) (talk) (contribs) 03:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Decision to go PowerPC

Has it even been revealed why MS chose use PowerPC processors in the 360? Was it simply price? performance? to reduce x86 hacking? Seems like they paid a high price of breaking hardware backward compatibility by going PPC. --72.202.150.92 02:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The architecture of the consoles are COMPLETELY different, a similar CPU wouldve hardly helped considering how much more licensing they wouldve had to get on top of that.

Nonetheless, they were specially made out-of-order chips so they would be best for gaming and a lot cheaper than traditional in-order. Going PPC was DEFINITELY the right decision —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.201.233.200 (talk) 12:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Actually, there is no difference between execution speed of the process versus in or out of order. The original RISC computer solved this problem by having the program compiler optimize the code for in order execution and pipelining. Out of order execution only improves performance when the machine code is copmmpiled for hardware non-specific platforms, unlike the xbox 360 whose hardware set is static, which means there is no performance hit as the code is already optimized at compile time. PPC is MUCH simpler than x86 and hasn't been retrofitted to work over the past 20 years like x86 has. PPC also has a native 64-bit instruction set. There are many other reason but research Reduced Instruction Set Computing, and Pipelining, as well as Instruction Set Design for more information Pdpyromaster 17:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe the reason that Microsoft chose to go with a POWER chip instead of another X86 chip was costs. Specifically, they couldn't own the rights to manufacture the X86 chips, and thus they couldn't take the design to another foundry, meaning they would be stuck to the initial vendor to provide the chip over its lifetime, leading to a much slower drop in costs. By going with a custom-designed Power chip, and buying the IP rights from IBM for the design, it cost a little more to start, but now they can go to another foundry (IE: Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing, like they already have for the 65nm process shrink) to save money with a newer process, meaning each chip takes up less silicon, and each wafer yields more chips, et cetera. So yes, it's 'costs' in a way, just not "Power chips are cheaper than X86". -FrYGuY 09:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Live Trial?

In the table comparing the Premium and Core systems, it says that both come with a one Month Gold subscription. I recently got a Premium 360, and after rummaging through the box, leafing through all the pamphlets, and reading the outside of the box it no where mentions or includes a 1 month Gold subscription. Can someone find a source that says this subscription is included? It doesn't even mention it on the official website. Couchpotato99 08:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

From your link.Meow07 11:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Game online over Xbox Live Gold**
** 1-month trial of Xbox Live Gold included
Not that this is source-able, but I can vouch that I just set up my Premium system and when I created a Live account, it asked if I wanted a one-month Gold subscription for $0.00. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.51.111.1 (talk) 20:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
Ah, I see. Sorry, I didn't even check my own source :(... I was looking for a card or something, but since I just downloaded a gamertag I created on my computer instead of setting one up on the console I guess it never prompted me. Thanks for the clarification. Couchpotato99 21:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Xbox Live - Video

Although correct in stating what the service offers, it is ambiguous in mentioning that this is only open to US users, and is not on offer currently to the European market.

Made note that it was launched in the US, and it's open to US users.Meow07 23:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I think they got rid of the cards, because people who were banned on xbox live would use them to play anyways 161.97.4.149 19:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sales figures

Sales have slowed down for the X306.

End November 2006, Xbox 360 sales were behind all major consoles except the PSP. Source: [3]

the statement that Xbox 360 sales were behind all major consoles isn't supported by the source cited, neither is the statement that sales have slowed, even if it is true.Spaceman99 17:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

In Japan, the Sony PSP3 sold 190,000 in one month since launch, compared to Microsoft's Xbox 360 180,000 units for the entire year. Source: [4]

Tom1974me 12:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Your clearly quoting things in a biased way. From your source it looks like Gears or War was the best selling game of the month, and that the Xbox 360 not only outsold the Wii, but it more than doubled the console sales on the PlayStation 3. Not to mention that “The 360 accounted for about 26 percent of total hardware dollar sales.” Meow07 23:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Microsoft said that they would sell 10 million units by the end of 2006. Did they do this? Is there a place I can get that information?

Seems they hit 10.4 million, wait til CES for an official statement.Meow07 04:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup, it hit 10.4 million according to CES. Just saw it on the live feed.

Just added it too, watching the feed also.Meow07 03:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Woo, little mistake there. Microsoft didn't sell 10.4 Million units. They SHIPPED that much units. Their goal was also about shipping and not selling. 213.157.11.227 09:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I assume they are rounding the numbers but 1.5 + 1.7 + 1.8 + 0.9 + 4.4 = 10.3 nutcrackr 06:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Microsoft tend to take units sold to mean units shipped while most everyone else accepts units sold in the literal sense. Since the source for the 10.4 mil figure is an MS employee (Robbie Bach) I don't think it should count as an unbiased independent figure. A more independent figure is here: http://www.vgcharts.org/. It says that the 360 is only at 9.77 mil on March 31, 2007. I think an independent source is better than info from a PR rep. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jordinho (talk • contribs) 03:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

This is in reference to the statement at the end of the first paragraph that the Xbox 360 was the best-selling console of holiday season 2006. According to a NY Times article, that distinction actually goes to the PS2. The PS2 sold 1.4 million units in December, while the Xbox 360 sold 1.1 million. Also, if you look at the source cited in the Wikipedia article, it says Xbox 360 was the best-selling next-generation console, not the absolute best-selling console (although the title of the page doesn't include this qualifier).

I'd make the change myself except that I'm rather new at editing Wikipedia and I don't know how to properly add and link to the source. So I'll be back to make sure someone took up the issue. ;) --Skylights76 10:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I saw this too and made the change. It had been moved to the Sales section. Good catch Skylights. BTW, try messing around in the Sandbox to get used to the wiki markup. Davidyorke 00:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

CNBC sales figures are wrong

According to Gamedaily, NPD informed them that several sites are wrongly crediting the sales figures from the CNBC report to NPD, and furthermore the actual NPD report will be released on January 11. [5] Dionyseus 13:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

CNBC figures aren't used in this article, so that's not very relevant.Meow07 23:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Technical Issues

I added an external link to the Xbox 360 technical issues wiki page. It could provide some minor support to those searching for it.

--Chicito21154 21:19, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Except that wasn't an external link. It was an internal link, and had already been linked from the 'Warranty' section in the article. I've removed it from the external links. Syrthiss 21:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see my mistake. Thanks. --Chicito21154 01:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Price In Australia

The retail price for the xbox premium system in Australia is $599.00, not $645.00.

No, it's $649.95, just like the article states. Meow07 18:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

No dude its $599.99 you both are wrong!

Its 649.95 and the Wii is the fastest launch in australian history, It is still the fastest to reach the 100 000 mark but due to sales it doesnt look like it for long

360 Zephyr

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6567

Its on the interweb, it must be true. --75.2.65.131 05:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Engadget just announced a new Xbox 360, codenamed "Zephyr." We should fit this in somehow into the article, maybe as a rumor or anticipated retail configuration. 120GB hard drive, HDMI port, etc. Possible HD-DVD built in (not confirmed on Engadget, but a nice little rumor at that). --CanesOL79 14:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You're right, I read about this new version of the Xbox 360 here. It also uses a 65nm processor, replacing the 90nm IBN Xenon PowerPC processor used in the current version. Information seems reliable, and it should be added to the article. Don't know how or where though. ← ANAS Talk? 16:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
The HD DVD will never be included in the console, Microsoft has said this dozens of times.
The bigger hard drive rumor comes up ever week, until Microsoft announces something, it's just a rumor.
The HDMI rumor is still just a rumor, this is the second time endgadget has said this and given a picture. The fact that their previous article (Which also has pictures) doesn't match the current should be proof enough that their articles relating to the matter are unreliable.
The 65nm CPU was confirmed by Microsoft, and it already in the article.
Most differantly does not belong in this article, remember Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Meow07 16:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm just saying, is it worth putting up into a rumor section. That's what I want to know. I mean, There's a picture in the article, and it looks legit, but I'm not too sure yet, nothing has been announced. Given that, I think it's worth putting into a possible rumor section. I won't add anything until we all agree on it, because, well, that's the way to go. --CanesOL79 17:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Saw a few stories online about an Xbox 360 with a built-in HD DVD drive: not true. We have no plans to release an Xbox 360 with an internal HD DVD. What we showcased at E3 was an external HD DVD drive, and we're sticking with that. We've always had a games-first emphasis with the Xbox, but some consumers can build on the platform - like by adding a Windows Media Center Edition PC. By keeping the drive external, we're offering consumers a choice in creating their own hi-def experiences. So: no plans for an internal HD DVD.

—http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/06/30/536031.aspx
Don't add internal HD DVD rumors.Meow07 18:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

the reference to a 100 GB hard drive in a recent presentation in Korea has been misleading and in fact we have no plans to bring a 100GB hard drive to the market. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

—http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12056/Microsoft-Addresses-Xbox-360-100-GB-Hard-Drive-Rumor/
Don't add larger HDD rumors.Meow07 18:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The original chip uses a 90 nanometer process, although a 65 nanometer process SOI revision was originally planned for early 2007, it has been delayed until mid-2007.

—http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12487/Sources-65nm-Xbox-360-CPUs-Delayed-Until-Mid2007/
It's not a rumor, and it's already in the articleMeow07 18:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Microsoft has not announced any additional support beyond component video for HD output. MS is watching the market closely and they will continue to evaluate any options in the face of consumer demand.

—http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/05/rumorang-xbox-360-hdmi-cable-officially-yanked/
Don't add HDMI rumors.Meow07 18:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

There's Microsoft quotes to dispell any rumors from that article, the one non-rumor is already mentioned under the CPU section. Wikipedia is not a place for rumors, so don't add them. If any of these rumors turn out to be true, then add them, but not until.Meow07 18:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, I added it today, but someone seems to have deleted it. If you actually look at the engadget article, it's not just a rumor- there's a picture of a 360 with an HDMI port on it. Also, Microsoft and its partners have publicly acknowledged that they are moving the 360 CPU to a 65 nm process. M412k 02:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
    • And if you look here, you'll see a differant photo which Engadet claims to be legit, from 6 months ago. Anyone with 5 minuts and Photoshop can send a dark, low quality, blurry photo to a website claiming that it's real. Unless Microsoft announces it, it's a rumor. And as for 65nm, it's already in the article.Meow07 03:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
      • I see your point, and I'm not going to argue to put it back into the article, but honestly, if I had to put money on it right now, I wouldn't bet against it. Also note that in the older article, it is explicitly marked as a rumor, whereas the newer one has more info. M412k 04:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

in the article under revision, it says "Xenon" when it should be "Zephyr"... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.72.124.205 (talk • contribs).

Even you, Meow, must admit that it's looking pretty real. I don't think personally that an official announcement is the minimum necessary basis for suitability to be posted, but I'm not going to add it to the article yet. As you said, CES is upcoming, and I expect the announcement. By the way, you should consider investing in spell check. M412k 18:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Did u see this pic? here, Ya i dont know what it is but i just felt like contributing lolThe Ravager 19:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree with what has been said before; it's probably true, but not encyclopedic until confirmation or proof.Ethan Duffy 20:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Not to be an ass or anything, but I think you mean not verifiable until confirmation. There is, however, already proof. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 00:26, 7 January 2007

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEylpyZkVpwzemjZKk.php here you non belivers, look at the video on the bottom of the page. If this isnt proof I dont kn0w what is.

We should wait until the official announcement. I've heard that Microsoft might make an annoncement on Sunday, perhaps about surpassing the 10m sales mark. Dionyseus 05:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure whether this may have been mentioned before, but I thought it should be added - Xbox-Scene.com has a claimed video of a prototype 360 console with the HDMI port - looks fairly legit to me, but then i'm far from a video doctoring expert. You can see it here: [6] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Colds7ream (talk • contribs).

NO FREAKING RUMORS!!! Anyways they DID announce something, but its not HDMI, which IMHO can be used with a converter wire with pre-existing models of the Xbox 360. Its IPTV. Wikipedia has an excellent article on that, so troll about rumors there. And proof can be faked, so if its not from Microsoft, its not true. - Thekittenofterra 04:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I watched the IPTV bit during the feed, but didn't pay attention to if it was an extension of Xbox Live Video or a seperate part of Live. If someone could find out I'd be a great addition to the article.Meow07 04:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Here's a response to the rumors.Meow07 05:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so we've concluded that we will not have a rumor section in this article so that we preserve its quality. I think that's a good choice. I haven't checked the article yet, but we should consider adding CES information on it, considering the IPTV news and other such things. We'll get around to it eventually, but I don't want to do anything until we're all okay with this. Oh, and good work blocking the unauthorized edits, smart move. --CanesOL79 17:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I've made a note of IPTV, not much information was given, so I only added that the ability to stream video would be added. Meow07 23:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
That wasn't much of a response at all. All it says is that they haven't announced anything. We already knew that. This means nothing. Of course Microsoft is going to hold off on announcing it- if they announce it, the news will get out to more people and sales of the 360 will drop as people wait for the new version. I'd say this is more than a rumor. We have moderately strong confirmation, just no official word. M412k 18:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I keep hearing people bitch about not adding rumors. For gods sake half of this freaking site is nothing but rumors, so whats wrong with a rumor section? zabbethx

The black 360 with a larger HDD may be a possibility but HDMI? Nope. The Xenos was optimized for Analogue. They arn't gonna revise the architecture of their GPU to incorperate this, it'll never happen unless it's in the form of an adaptor...172.212.103.159 23:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

January 2007 Dashboard Update

Has anyone else noticed a Dashboard update from 2.0.4548 to 2.0.4552? I wonder what it includes. 203.214.114.182 13:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)devoidx360

Just some minor fixes--BoricuaPR 21:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Here are some of the changes in this update:

  • Improvements to the Xbox Guide.
  • Option to retain your saved games when you delete a profile.
  • Increased accuracy of "last time played."
  • Network configuration improvements for Xbox Live® members in the Netherlands.
  • More detailed messaging for unreadable disk or region errors.

From xbox.com.70.101.203.208 14:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

That was an update in January 2006. Not 2007. It was incorrectly reported by 1up I think. Momo Hemo 10:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Number of Controllers

The page says that the Xbox 360 can have 4 wired or wireless controllers. This is not true. Since there are only 3 USB ports, you can have 3 wired or 4 wireless.

J3r3my 05:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)j3r3my

Yes it is possible to use 4 wired controllers if you plug the HD DVD add on in any usb port the HD DVD add on has 2 additional usb ports on it.

Brad425 22:25 , 12 January 2007 (UTC)Brad425

I believe you can also use a USB hub.

24.220.159.126 10:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

How ghetto, why did they cheap out on USB ports?Pumapayam 17:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

so u will spend 10 more bucks to buy the wireless controller. Neodarksaver 07:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Xbox 360 core version in brazil.

There IS NO core version in Brazil. The only Xbox 360 launched in Brazil officially is a pack with premium version + 3 "free" games. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.43.193.77 (talk) 14:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

This is true. There is no "Core" version being sold in Brazil. I'm changing this right now. --Ciao 90 18:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Ring Of Death

Xbox 360 encounters the Ring Of Death

One of the biggest catastrophes ever found on the Xbox 360. Professional Gamer 01:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

There some articles writen about this [7] [8] IGN's Matt Casamania has 4 broken 360s.. I think is very difficult write something about since any console can face problems and this article is spoted by Microsoft Fanboys. The Ring of Death can be turned into a nice article as Blue Screen of Death. --Ciao 90 12:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
The guy is now on his fifth XBox. Its pretty suspect which is probably why most neutral people are skeptical. You mention "MS fanboys", but I think its mainly "MS destractors" that revel in this kind of hearsay. I dont consider some unknown guy who works for a marginally impt website to be some kind of unimpeachable authority. Matt Casamania either has the worst luck in history, is doing something (deliberately) wrong, or the XBox 360 is one of the worst pieces of hardware ever made and has a huge percentage of failure. The last one simply isnt true. Annectdotally, I dont know *anyone* who has had one fail. There are no mass reports from industry analysts of higher than trend failure rates, there is no consumer affairs investigation of MSFT for a fundamentally flawed/defective product and there are 10M+ and growing out there with increasingly good attach rates for the new hot games like GoW. So really... What's the story? The only way someone can have FIVE of one product fail, statistically, is if the product is a disaster, or they are repeating the SAME destructive action over and over and refusing to even consider user error. Either that, or he's lying... Take your pick b/c the XB360 simply does NOT have such an outrageously high failure rate - its in line with what is typical for game consoles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.107.67.247 (talk) 09:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC).
As 70.107.67.247 says, this appears to be a unique case. Of all the people with 360s I know, not one has failed, but as with any console, there is presumably some specific behaviour that promotes hardware failure which that person is just repeating over and over (much like tipping the console with a disc inside scratches the disc), such as keeping it in an enclosed space (would you do that with a PC?). - Davidjk RC Patrol 12:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
When someone's game console fails, they get on the internet and complain. However, if everyone who had a perfectly fine working 360 got on the internet and said that their 360 worked fine, then all the failing console threads would become flooded with working console threads. --Can Not 22:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

True or false, the complaints should at least be mentioned. At least more than a dozen gamers have had this type of problem despite being meticulous (or so we read on the message boards) Dibol 1:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[9]

I think this deserves a section in the Techincal Problems section of the article. I myself have a 360 which has put enough scratches on my Gears of War disk to render sections unreadable, which results in me dropping from campaign and multiplayer maps when it tries to stream certain parts. I've had the disk replaced, and the problem isn't nearly as bad when the console is horizontal, but it is still picking up scratches. Keep in mind this console is brand new, and has never once been moved while in operation. It's on a very surdy surface, and is played almost exclusively at night when most of my family is asleep, so the console is not being effected by any outside source. The problem is that the disk tray doesn't prevent the disk tilting on the spindle, which means that even the vibrations from the case fans can potentially put it off-balance, and cause it to grind the laser housing assembly. Regardless of the actual "failure rate", this is a well documented issue that affects a great many poeple, even if you assume half those on the xbox.com forums are liars or idiots.

I think it should read something like: "A number of Xbox360 owners report circular scratches on their disks (link to xbox forums), caused by the disk tilting inside the DVD drive(http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/Xbox-360-Game-Disc-Scratched.htm). These scratches are capable of rendering the DVDs unreadable. As per the previous link it is possible to prevent the disk tilting in the drive by installing a buffer in the lid of the DVD drive, opposite the laser assembly." I think that's sufficiently NPOV, uses sources, and informs potential buyers of a "feature" that they should be aware of before investing in a console that may damage their software. BOMBkangaroo 16:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The "Ring Of Death" is very similiar to the "Blue Screen Of Death". Professional Gamer 14:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The Ring of Death doesn't come out of the blue. It starts off as just a few glitches here and there. You'll be playing a game and after about a half-hour into gameplay your screen buzzes and freezes. At first you pay it no mind. You simply turn off your console and turn it back on. Problem solved. You may have lost a save point but most of the time you won't get too frustrated. After a few days you'll start to notice that it's happening more and more often until, eventually, your xbox 360 turns on, displays the ring of death, and freezes on the load screen. Solution? Well if you're within warrenty you pay to have it shipped over there in McAllen Texas(around 13 bucks at 7-8 lbs) and wait the 3-5 weeks for them to either return your last console or send you a new one. If you're not lucky enough to have the warrenty, you'll need to shell out $140 US and wonder if you made a wise purchase. The only thing I'm quite unsure of is if I receive a new 360--does it come with a new warrenty or is it merely a refurbished older 360? These are the questions that will plague you for the next 5 weeks. The really bad news? While you wait you'll need to get a new hobby. "The punnishment for defying the law of gravity is hanging" 07:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The Ring Of Death appears with 3 red blinking lights, and resseting it will only get worse. In order to solve the real problem, the Xbox 360 must be returned and get a new problem-free Xbox 360. Professional Gamer 15:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge

Examples of multiplayer features can be merged into the appropriate section(s) on the Xbox360 article. Otherwise, it's not good to have a page like this. — Deckiller 00:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm against the merge. The list of multiplayer features should be just deleted. RobJ1981 00:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, it's not good to have a page like this to begin with. There are going to be hundreds upon hundreds of X360 games, maintaining a sourced and verifiable catalog of their "multiplayer features" is a mammoth and largely useless undertaking. Then you also have WP:NOT, etc. etc. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 01:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The idea is to take some examples, such as multiplayer in dead or alive, and merge that information into the game articles (that is, explain the multiplayer features in the article), and provide a few examples within the prose on the 360 page (that is, providing examples of a couple of the games that use certain features, etc). I'm an advocate of redirects when any information is preserved (I'm big on edit history, but not really because of count), which is why I suggest it as a merge and not delete. — Deckiller 01:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Game-specific information should probably be preserved, but I consider adding an example section to the main X360 article to be a liability. Choosing specific games for these types of sections is a largely arbitrary process, and editors will continually add (often superfluous) information on their favorite games. Discussion of the generalities of multiplayer modes should take place at multiplayer game, or, at most, Xbox Live. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 01:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, Xbox Live is a much better option. I do agree that it can be arbitrary unless the said features are only used by a few games, or if we have a criteria to display examples of only the most well-known (statistically) games so that it's fair. To clarify, the idea is to say something along the lines of "Games that use online co-op include Gears of War, Ghost Recon, and Saints Row", or "This game supports online co-op, link cable, etc (although this will probably either already be explained or converted to the infobox). The major concern I have is that if this is (or needs to be) done, that the edit history be preserved to show the origin/evolution of the information as it was presented on Wikipedia. This usually means a redirect to, say, Xbox Live. Perhaps we should change the proposal to Xbox Live instead? — Deckiller 01:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure. Keeping the list as a redirect will maintain the game-specific information accumulated thusfar. Online co-op gameplay is not exclusive to the X360, however, and there are dozens of X360 games that have such modes. I agree that coverage of multiplayer game mechanics is lacking on Wikipedia, but focusing on only one console's implementation is unfair and including such a section in every console article is redundant. An article on the history and evolution of multiplayer gaming would be the best option. (multiplayer game is grossly inadequate right now) ˉˉanetode╦╩ 02:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
That's a great idea. I'm not a big multiplayer gamer myself, so I can't help out there. — Deckiller 02:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
If you have decided not to merge, please remove the tags. I don't think the article needs to be deleted, but perhaps it could list things categorically, e.g. 2-4 maximum players per match: <list of games>, 5-8 maximum players per match: <list of games>, etc. Also, including Xbox, PS2/PS3 games, and PC games would make it more relevant. --gatoatigrado 05:27, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm assuming the debate is continuing as the tag's still there. I'm against the merge. The multiplayer article is fairly big, adding it to the Xbox 360 article would be impractical. --Oscarthecat 20:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm also against the merge, this article is already too long any Xbox 360 related should be splited in separated articles. --Ciao 90 12:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
The Xbox 360 article is too long to consider a merge. As per gatoatigrado's comments, reworking the list article is the best idea. - Davidjk (msg+edits) 00:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I am against the merge. This is a great resource for XBOX360 gamers - garethrees 13:21, 4 February 2007 (GMT)
I'm still tempted to AFD the multiplayer features page: it's an article better suited for a fan wiki. There is no other multiplayer articles like that (that I know of), why should it be an exception? I see no "single player" features article or "co-op" articles. It's a very broad subject. Obviously it can't be merged into the Xbox 360 article: that would make the article way too big. It really shouldn't exist as a list page either. All systems have multiplayer games, there is nothing more notable than Xbox 360's than any others. The whole saving "the edit history" isn't a big deal here. Non-notable information (just for the sake of people looking at what it previously was) isn't needed.. if the multiplayer list would be changed into a redirect. From the sounds of it, people aren't leaning towards a redirect to me at least. RobJ1981 06:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)