Talk:Xbox 360/Archive 3

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Contents

Xbox360Forum.com

What are your thoughts about adding Xbox360Forum.com to the external links? I am a member of the community and it has grown to over 4,000 members. We have been around for almost a year and it's a great place to discuss the Xbox 360 and ask questions.

So I'm submitting the Forum for peer review in accordance with the Wikipedia:External links policy. 66.98.152.31 01:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Oppose- It's not notable, adds nothing unique to the article, and fan forums are treasure troves of unverified junk information and speculation. Seraphim 06:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Hey gang. This is Omar, the Admin at Xbox 360 Forum. While I respect your opinion Seraphim, I don't think that fan forums are junk information. What we've got going at Xbox360Forum.com is similar to what's going on in this discussion page (and I don't think anyone would call this page 'junk').
The value-add of the forum is that it lets people follow up after they read a wikipedia article. For example, I read the Xbox 360 Wiki page then I get to the bottom and I want to start discussing and asking questions about the Xbox 360. I think that forums (not only mine, but also Teamxbox.com, etc...) are a great place to continue the discussion.
But regardless, Wikipedia's rules are pretty clear on 'no external links to fan forums' and I respect that. Thanks to the member who asked for our site to be considered for submission (even though I don't know who you are!). Cheers. 128.189.130.102 23:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
The "junk information" line comes from the fact that people that post on those sites are inherently POV in nature and will discuss rumors and speculation as if they were facts. A great example is the "Playstation Life" stuff that PSM recently put out. People are taking complete rumor and presenting it as fact without any official confirmation. Seraphim 23:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: Procedural Synthesis

Shouldn't the sub-section 'procedural synthesis' be removed? The paragraph reads like an advertorial for MicroSoft XBox360 - any computer can do this and the technique is neither new nor exclusive to this console. VRken 21:26, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it seems to be almost a marketing section. I'm not sure if we should remove it, however. Even though procedural synthesis isn't specific to the Xbox 360, it is being promoted by Microsoft for the X360. The design of the triple-core processor platform, combined with the XNA development environment, will allow developers to utilize the power of procedureal synthesis algorithms that are difficult to do on single-processor PCs that do not have well-developed APIs that support this concept. Just my two cents. Defkkon 21:41, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
The infomation supplied is interesting it would fit nicely into a separate wikipedia section on "Proceedural Synthesis on different Computer Architectures" but as such a page doesn't exist I can't really ask for it to be moved there. Also the second half is replicated in the proceedural synthesis section. It's definately in the wrong place - after all this is a subsection to software developement but the section in question tells me "what and why - procedural synthesis" plus info about the harware implementation. I'd like to remove this but I don't want to leave a hole. Maybe the originator will reconsider?HappyVR

Game Prices

The article states that games like PDZ and PGR3 will 49.99$. I am fairly certain this is false because i preordered PDZ and was told it was going to be 59.99$ not to mention that all game sites uote the games as being 59.99$. I will look more into and make the changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.156.43.6 (talk • contribs)

No, the article is correct. On xbox.com, Microsoft-developed and Microsoft-produced games are $49.99, while third party games (EA, UbiSoft, etc) are $59.99. I think, though, that Microsoft is using their $50 pricing plan to ease the consumers into the new generation of pricing, so that they aren't hit with obserd prices all at once. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.208.17.115 (talk • contribs)
The Xbox.xom site also has PDZ for 60$ but its for collecters edition, didnt know it that was worth mentioning68.153.29.23 20:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
The above is correct, if you were charged 60 then it was for collectors ed.

System Bandwidth

The 360's GPU is a custom 512MB graphics card with 48-way pipelines,and 525Mhz clockspeed made by Microsoft&ATi. System's CPU runs at 512MB/s GDDR3 Ram (700Mhz). Total system memory bandwidth is 278GB/s a/sec. with 21.6 frontside bus,and 32GB/s backside bus, 10.8GB/s southbridge memory up&downstream. Total TFLOPS is 115.2TFLOPS. Which makes the graphics and computer much powerful than any high end PC to date, and the 360 is exactly what people want to see in graphics,memory,CPU's,entertainment,online,etc. seven years from now. It has the exact mathmematics of a supercomputer easily. With real-time graphics that look 3x better than ps3's CGI, what more could you ask for from this multi-media machine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.139.13 (talk • contribs)

I agree (but opinions don't matter, the facts are right there). The Xbox 360 is a supercomputer, at least by its technical specifications. If only Microsoft marketed it as a "regular" PC and gave it some killer OS software, it would be a huge development for computing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.208.17.115 (talk • contribs)
More powerful than any high end PC to date? What people want seven years from now? Yeesh, tone it down a little. There are many areas of the XBox 360 that do not match up with a modern PC, though there are of course many areas where it competes quite well. In seven years, though, the XBox 360 will certainly be very outdated. --Yamla 18:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Now that I've double-checked, the total theoretical speed of the CPU is approximately 115 GFLOPS (not 115.2 TFLOPS, as claimed above). Compare this to the information given in the Supercomputer article and you will find that this is theoretically equivalent, though slower than, a supercomputer from 1994. Impressive, certainly, but much less than one one-thousandth the power of a modern high-end supercomputer. And remember, this measure of floating-point performance of the CPU is theoretical. Most of the first round of games will only use a single core. Even a program making efficient use of every single core is unlikely to hit 115.2 GFLOPS on the XBox360. --Yamla 20:01, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

GPU and DirectX support

As I recall, the X360 XDK is using a customized DirectX API, thus comparison with DirectX version seems pointless. And that DirectX 10 would be renamed as WFG when Vista is out, I believe. Any comments? 71.109.0.182 23:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC)71.109.0.182

Graphics

i have heard that the graphics of the X-box 360 are so advanced that one can see the pores on skin. is there any truth to that? -J.L. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.10.61.86 (talk • contribs)

J.L., it is time that you discovered the magical world of texture mapping: Image:Tekken6.jpg --anetode¹ ² ³ 00:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
good point, though this image is pre-rendered CG. 71.109.0.182 23:11, 29 January 2006 (UTC)71.109.0.182

J.L., As reported on KATU.com (the ABC affiliate in Portland, Oregon) the graphics are so good that you can "actually see Russian soldiers exhaling as they battle Nazis on frozen battlefields" in "Call of Duty 2," the WWII first-person shooter game. 360 and several other games were test-run by Matt Slagle, an AP Tech Writer. M.M.

I own Call of Duty 2, and I have noticed an effect similar to the one you lot have described. Not on skin, mind, but on cloth, walls and ground, it puts this sort of "grainy" mesh over it when you get right close to it. It's a nice effect, rather than just having a blurry texture of some kind (albiet, the textures are quite hi-res anyway).

Time Article

In the time article on Xbox 360 there is a quote from Bill Gates that gave the impression that Halo 3 was comming out on the PS3's release date. It might be important to note that Microsoft made a retraction notice. http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61132 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grzesik (talk • contribs)

It's not a retraction notice per se, more of a clarification. I've added a link to your source in the main article. --anetode¹ ² ³ 02:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Remove and merge xbox screen of death link

user Mateusc created the xbox 360 SOD page and linked it to this article at the bottom, i dont think it warrents its own page and should be merged/ added somehow to this article.Tik 21:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Since the Xbox360 is based on the Microsoft Windows kernel, wouldn't the information fit better at BSoD? --anetode¹ ² ³ 22:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

yeah thats what me and a couple others think as well, theres a discussion about it on that page.but i think the verdict is going to be merge the 2.Tik 15:22, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Lounge pics

I really don't have an interest in the Xbox 360 or video games in general, but I found myself across the street from Tokyo's Xbox 360 Lounge on Sunday night, and tried out my new HDV camcorder on it. Some frame captures are below, if anyone thinks they're appropriate for the article

Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan

Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan

Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan

Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan

Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan

--Calton | Talk 20:52, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

That's pretty cool. Kinda wish they'd add one to Tampa, Florida. CanesOL79 18:51, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Clean Up!?

Great works on the articles boys (is there a girl?)

anyway, good job
Although, lets just say i am a customer, who is looking for info on xbox360, me browsing thorugh wiki, and searched for "xbox 360"
Luckliy i got what i wanted, now to look for all information i need,
Looking at that articles, seems like reading a newspaper, i need something easy, so i can read the information without scroll down
The task for you guys (girls?) is to pack the information together, like pack it in a box
  • The images, are just packed everywhere, why don't you all add them to the Image Gallery
  • Some information needs to be seperated into another article, for less Contents
  • The pricing and Packaging, shouldn't that be in a different article? like Chrome/Prenuim/Xbox 360 and Core System, Prices for each they should be togethr in another article, so people can know what the differences instead of packing all information just in one article
  • The componements and Acceroies, should also be in a seprate article (remember ariticles are kb, accept the lenght/data packed in the article) so don't be afriad to do to many, do has much has you like.
  • The "Hardware specifications-Viral advertising and alternate reality games" can stay. Remember the article says Xbox 360, it has to be about the name and console, and Components and accessories, or anything outside xbox360 should be a link to the article

Rememer, always listen to what the customer says, to make a better improvments.

if you don't listen to me...fine it's cool

>x<ino 03:14, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Agree, also did you notice LINK city at the bottom? that needs to be cleaned up. minor problem though Tik 15:25, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you to an extent. The introduction definitely needs to be cleaned up and beefed up, so random customers and google-redirects are given a quick and factual summary. However I think that images should be used primarily to illustrate the pertinent sections, grouping them in a gallery would strain the fair use rationale. The article is getting quite large, but the hardware specs and official components and accessories really should be the pillars of the entry. The marketing info, launch title lists, and release info could easily be combined and exported into a Launch of Xbox 360 article. The Xbox Live service already has its own article as well, so that section could be merged away, and the links should be trimmed. These changes would cut the article by about a third. --anetode?? 15:58, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Number of Registers?

What's the total number of registers in the xbox360? the article states:

  • Two hardware threads per core; six total.
  • 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread.

So is that 6 * 128 = 786? What ever the case it needs to be clarified. 68.183.29.123 18:10, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

There is also a set of floating point registers per thread. Suffice to say that the total number is pretty large. --anetode?? 02:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Who actually gives a damn about these useless specifications anyway? Do people say "I want an Xbox 360 because it has 768 VMX-128 registers"? --Optichan 18:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
The VMX-128 unit contains a 128×128 register file (128 registers, each 128 bits wide). One VMX-128 execution unit per core times 128 registers is 384 vector registers. Note that this is not the total number of registers in the CPU, just those used exclusively by the 360's SIMD units. I've clarified this a bit in the article. -- uberpenguin 14:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Oh, for anyone who wants a reference for this justification, Jeff Brown's presentation at the last Fall Processor forum (titled "Application Customized CPU Design for Microsoft XBOX 360" [1]) is very good since it is directly from the lead IBM engineer on the Xenon project, and hasn't been systematically filtered through Microsoft's marketing and a thousand fanboy sites. Some of the highlights were posted by Brown on this blog. Scan the section on the design of VMX-128 briefly; it makes it pretty clear that each unit only has one register file. I'd definitely go by the engineer's reports rather than MS' confusing press release. -- uberpenguin 14:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Faked Undersupply

Is there any point of this? Come on, tell me that you can just walk into a store and buy one right here, right now. If not, then there you go. This thing sells like hot cakes, MS will probably ship under the projected 2.5~3 mil units in the first 90 days, now tell me, is there any business sense to do a "fake undersupply?" You try to sell as many as possible to get ahead of competitors.

how often is hardware said to be undersupplied and it turns out not to be? other than the PSP launch (but it wasn't AS touted as undersupplied, IIRC, as the xbox 360 is being...) i pulled up no articles googling the topic. well, not under the search "xbox 360" fake undersupply. any other thoughts, search ideas, sources? Plonk420 07:24, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

  • [2]12.220.47.145 00:18, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Real or fake, it caused one to go for $3450 on eBay. --badlydrawnjeff 21:42, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
  • just like all the other eBay auctions you see on the news (xbox360 eBay media hype) with huge dollar values, that one is fake. The user's feedback is now private, and got -1 from the seller.WiZZLa 16:29, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
    • It's my opinion that the private user who won the bid actually tried to scam the seller. Google for david_lascar (anagram of rascal) and check out his modus operandi on a previous scam involving a dog. That's what you get for being a greedy fuckhead trying to sell something at ten times it's price - you become a honeypot for real grifters, even if they are half-arsed. --81.178.239.207 17:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I dont think calling names is very mature, even if i agree that selling a 360 at 5k on ebay is not very respectable, however it is pretty smart for those people wanting to make a quick buck and not at all illegal, the fact that people actually buy them is what fuels this kind of behavior. But please do not use profanity in these discussion spaces as it is not professional or mature. Tik 15:18, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

"Fake undersupply" is a method used to inflate demand. When done correctly, this marketing tactic can realy help increase the demand for a given product (see below under "Inflate Demand"). So YES, there is some business sense in it (when done correctly). As for Microsoft doing it on purpose or not, I (and perhaps no one) will be able to tell at least for now. But what I find funny is that Microsoft says that no one will get prefferential or "VIP" access to Xboxes 360, and that even the Microsoft directors will have to pay to get their own XBoxes 360 (so, what if they do? I don't care). However, if you go to the Microsoft campus in the UK (at Thames Valley, Reading), there are loads os Xboxes 360 sitting in the caffeteria. Again, I don't care if Balmer gets a Xbox 360 before me, but to say that not even Balmer will get it in order to justify a shortage, whilst there are some Xboxes 360 lying around in their campus, I find it amuzing... --Pinnecco 12:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore American actors and actresses got their Xbox 360s for free at an event a full week before the launch: http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/Xbox360_Launch_Party/Atmosphere_Caulf_6543611_600_400.jpg. Even Paris Hilton got a free one: http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hilton/ParisHilto_Caulf_6543975_600_400.jpg Dionyseus 19:12, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Supposedly Best Buy stores got 20 about a week or 2 ago, however, i dont remember hearing about any other stores getting 360's, and also not one store is getting 'weekly' shipments as peter moore has stated. I think the the truth is being bent somewhere.Tik 15:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Well i just got my 360 3 days ago, perhaps MS will start coming through on its promise to ship more units. i just hope everyone who pre-ordered one gets it. (also on a fancruft note: i played PDZ, NFS:MW, Q4, and CoD2, i am impressed so far). Happy New Year!!! Tik 14:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Today, Jan 27th, 06, MS announced that Australia and New Zealand launch date is pushed back from 3/2 to 3/24 due to shortage, so there you go, this is like what the Mythbusters would say, definately busted.

Xbox 360 Degrees

Is it ok to put a link up to the site http://www.xbox360degrees.com/ the site seems to be kept up to date, and has helpful and useful news. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kittydog17 (talk • contribs)

It is sometimes appropriate (see WP:EL for more information) to put up as many as one such site. Please justify why this article should link to xbox360degrees and not to any of the other sites that fit into the same category. --Yamla 00:09, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Well from my experience of using the site it does seem very quick with news, they have recently put up the list of backwards compatible games, and the confirmed launch titles, the news seems very regular and informative, I just felt that it was looked after enough to have the privilege to get a place on the Xbox 360 page on wikipedia --Kittydog17 07:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The Xbox 360 was officially unveiled...

Important: 4 hours before the MTV program in United States the OurColony just placed the final challenge that reveal this Xbox 360 video. --Mateusc 23:19, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Grammar changes

Why points inside brackets? IMHO this isn't grammatically correct. --KuSh 08:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Graphics Chip Picture

I have uploaded the image Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg. This is an image of the R500 Graphics Processing Unit of the Xbox 360. Can someone change the image size and correctly insert it into the picture? Thanks. --CanesOL79 15:29, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The image has been cropped, inserted in the article, and relicensed. --anetode?? 16:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Universal Remote

At IGN, they showed the real picture of the xbox remote, it doesnt look like this, this is a protoype

the real one, looks Universal, please look to it
both pad an;t the same, the real on has something at the bottom middle, and some glowing green lights, while the one you got on this article is plain

>x<ino 02:48, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Tables

I've totally redone the "Retail configurations and pricing" and "Launch titles" using tables. It better shows the comparisons, and I hope it doesn't make the code too difficult to read. violet/riga (t) 23:43, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

great works on that >x<ino 05:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Xbox.com is down

Anyone know what's up with that? — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 00:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

it isn't down to me >x<ino 02:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
It is down for me. I am guessing a lot of people want more information because it was recently released and also it is to be released in other regions soon. --Thorpe 20:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

guys, this isnt a message board, stuff like this doesnt belong here. please remove it. Tik 16:33, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Xbox.com is an extremely unstable site. --Vironex 19:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

10 reasons why to buy Xbox 360 and 10 reasons why not to buy Xbox 360

Maybe it’s a good thing to have this kind of information available. For a user his/her wikipedia goal for this specific subject, is to find out what the Xbox 360 is and if he/she will buy it or not. I was able to find a couple of topics on the internet about this subject. At ign.com I found these two topics: 10 reasons , 10 reasons and pc .ShotokanTuning 13:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Freedom and Microsoft? Lol, don’t make me laugh that’s the worst example ever. The topic about the pc games is very interesting. How come some of the reasons at Xbox 360 actually root against the Xbox 360 if you think them trough? I demand better reasons to buy a Xbox 360 and I want them now! Or I’ll wait until the PS3 comes out (hoping Xbox 360 has a few games worth playing by that time…) and make a decision. I won’t just make a wild move like last time with the Xbox... Don’t tell me that GTA4 rumor is true!137.120.12.17 13:13, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn’t able to find better reasons why to buy the Xbox 360, maybe somebody else had more luck? Thanks. The GTA team had a bias for Sony, why would that change? GTA never was that good anyways, it's only by GTA3 they got the hang of things, maybe GTA4 is nice.ShotokanTuning 13:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

This kind of topic is POV based though, would be hard to sell unless you found a way to Neutral it. But see what you can do. Tik 16:36, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

North American launch

Anyone want to put in some details about shortages, errors and robbery of Xbox 360s? Not looking so good. Xbox 360 has rocky start at retail —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thorpe (talk • contribs)

XBOX 360 bloggers swamp the web...Microsoft XBOX 360 Blog —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.139.53 (talk • contribs)

I live down the st from where a women got robbed at gunpoint for her 360 she was buying for her son for christmas on launch day, absolutely rediculous. the good news is that the store owner and employess pitched in to buy her a new one, good people exist in the world after all!! Tik 16:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Worst launch ever?

Someone added that section. It was obvious written by a fanboy (in example, calling Xbots to the Xbox fans). While I agree there must be some section about the launching problems, it is too early to cite sources that base their reports in blogs and forums. -- ReyBrujo 13:06, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

yea, but fanboys know more!:D any way... " Immediately after the launch, isolated reports about the new machine's technical glitches started coming out. Some reported that the Xbox 360 "crashed", some reported the hard drive did not respond at all while a few others reported unusually fast overheating. Microsoft has stated that they will look into the reports and has offered assistance reachable by phone. "DAMN! that is what i have to say!, i pity those fools, when they call for assitance, Microsoft will get extra money, when those fools waste money over the phone. >x<ino 14:35, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
This is bad... Microsoft is starting to disappoint me now. ShotokanTuning 07:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Seems like a shitty console to me.. with all those overpriced, uninspired gamez, and overheated screens of death. imo,a no go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.70.252.138 (talk • contribs)
^ seems like a fanboy to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WiZZLa (talk • contribs)

i changed a little of what the report section said, after reading gamespy, there blip on it made since in that the tech problems are not uncommon, and arent rampant, i personally dont know anyone who has had any problem myself, so it would seem like they were pretty isolated. I think that all this propaganda is from fanboys exaggerating and Sony using people to discredit 360 since it is the only competition. Tik 16:54, 4 December 2005 (UTC) Edit: also ino, if you call microsoft with your problem regarding 360 they will send you a shipping box and ship u a new console, in return for the defective one, thats fair.

Microsoft stated only about 3% of the released machines had problems. That amounts to little over 13,000 (if they did release between 400,000 and 500,000 units). Since game communities are online and with a great technology knowledge, it is understandable they would make noise in the internet. -- ReyBrujo 17:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

For Japan, I think one can safely argue that Xbox 360 does have worst launch titles, in the number at least, compared to Europe and US. I'm not exactly sure why MS is doing this, but having only a part of other countries' lineup will make it look like MS isn't making a serious attempt in Japan. As a side note, I have a feeling that MS did a market study and believes it can ignore Japanese market and still be succesful. MS is running a series of TV advertising right now in Japan and it's horrible copy of i-Pod, catchy (or supposed to be) American music, short (and unispiring from my view, having played demo version) segments of game video, and not showing anyone actually playing it. I still can't believe they couldn't find or tried to use a Japanese singer to sing in ads... -- Revth 01:44, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

First two days passed here in Japan (or Tokyo where I live) and I had previously believed 50,000-75,000 sales on the first week was possible. I believe the number will be less than 30,000. I will add how many actually sold with verifiable sources on the next weekend. -- Revth 10:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Although a blog, some information can be extracted from Kotaku. Except on the official launching place, it seems sales are going slow in other places. This week Media Create should be posting numbers from up to today, so we may get real numbers for this launch. -- ReyBrujo 14:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
About the 3% figure, that's only the number of incidents that have been reported directly to Microsoft, and does not include the number of defected units that will be discovered in the morning of Christmas Day. Most polls showed over 15% defect rate, but of course online polls aren't scientific, but I must say that I have never seen so many reports of defects being reported in the Gamefaqs forum before. Looking at the insides of the Xbox 360, one gets the feeling that the design has major flaws that must be looked into, too many components packed together so closely and an inefficient air cooling system is asking for overheating nightmares. Dionyseus 15:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Um, Dionyseus. The number I gave is the "estimated total number of Xbox 360 sold in Japan on the first week". Nobody in Japan is talking about how defective Xbox 360 is because nobody cares. There is an unofficial countdown thread at 2chan counting down how fast 310 Xbox 360 will sell at Sofmap's online store. The number is currently down to 304 and that's $300*300=$90,000 or about $100,000 worth of Xbox 360 (not including anything else) rotting on the shelf. Retailers are going to kill MS for Nintendo and Sony simply because they want to destroy Xbox 360s that's clogging up their storages. I'm refraining from writing that Xbox 360 was a total failure in Japan because I need numbers to back me up. -- Revth 01:28, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Numbers are here and yes it's a disaster. I didn't add because I couldn't even care less to find out the actual number but the original Xbox sold about 120,000 units initially (to 500,000). I feel sorry for whatever is going to happen to MS Japan. -- Revth 02:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Revth, my post was directed to Reybrujo, not you. Dionyseus 08:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Sorry. :( -- Revth 23:04, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Lock the Page

Should this page be locked due to the massive amounts of vandalism that are happening right at the launch date of the system? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.185.84.246 (talk • contribs)

I agree, After the "worst launch ever" section was added and deleted i think the page should be locked until things have calmed down. ~pure inuyasha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pure inuyasha (talk • contribs)
I strongly agree. The page should be cleaned up, then quickly locked. The vandalism is out of control. - RedHotHeat 17:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

External Links

The list is unbelivably long, and please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a link depository. I have allready removed many of the links, but the whole "futher reading" is huge and should be toned down a lot. Havok (T/C) 09:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

There is no point to having all the links that are there. They are mostly lame articles written to get attention for the author's website. I came to add this, which is an entire wiki dedicated to the article. If anyone agrees, add it to the list. --169.244.143.115 13:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Wiki360 actually needs some help, so if anybody wants to add some info, we (the staff) would really appreciate it. --Vironex 00:36, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

This is an excellent link: http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page it is a project towards porting GNU/Linux, BSD, Darwin and related open-source operating systems to the Microsoft Xbox 360 video game console. I think it should be posted. --CBW 22:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Premium Hard Drive Size

The size of the 360 Premium's Hard Drive is 13 GB, not the originally advertised 20 GB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.182.193.154 (talk • contribs)

Wrong. It's 20 GB. --Brazil4Linux 03:28, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Well there is only 13 GB available to the user, as the rest is partitioned off for other purposes. Could make a note you only have 13 for personal purposes ie- game saves, music, movies, demoes etc. Taladar 10:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Correct me if I am wrong, but perhaps the missing 7 GB is being used by bundled content such as backwards compatibility with previous games, demos, videos etc. Could someone comment on this? --Pinnecco 22:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually the missing 7gb is reserved for game saves, and swapping. Dionyseus 00:12, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Should it be mentioned in the article that only 13GB are available for use. In my experience many people belive that Microshaft( I couldn't resist) has shafted(sorry again) everyone by giving out a 13GB drive not a 20GB. Very few people who have noticed the avalible amount of space seem to grasp the concept that part of the disk is not available for their usage. Most people don't belive me when i tell them that either. So what do yall think? Brokenscope 01:37, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't think it's necessary. A 512MB RAM computer after loading Windows XP will probably have ~300MB of physical RAM left, are you suggesting that computer retailer need to point that out? That doesn't seem too logical.

Crashing in Europe?

I'm living in Ireland, and have seen kiosks of the new console (out 2 Dec for me) but have heard nothing of it crashing. If it is power supply related, it is possible it won't affect Europe (I added that to the article) but, does anyone know for sure? Has anyone heard of it crashing/overheating on the European ones? Or does anyone know for sure, the opposite, that it doesn't affect Europe? - RedHotHeat 15:06, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Microsoft will replace it for free, including the express shipping to and from the factory, there is nothing to worry about.

Official name

The official name for their first console was "XBOX" (note the capitalisation) as mentioned in the documentation which came with the console.

Is the official name for this new one actually "Xbox 360", or are people on Wikipedia just mangling the name to make it look "better"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.55.251 (talk • contribs)

Actually, it seems it does not make any difference. Note how Microsoft refers to both XBOX 360 and Xbox 360 [3]. -- ReyBrujo 01:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
"XBOX 360" is just the logo for it. I'm taking graphic design and logos and stuff in school, and one of the things they teach us is to make the name stand out, and if there is a logo, don't use lowercase lettering. Same applies for Xbox 360. --CanesOL79 05:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Dead or Alive

Dead or Alive is not going to launch in Japan. Someone please fix that. Wisnodew 02:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

we need proof, resources, backupinfo or link to the site stating it, an article stating it or news >x<ino 03:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Just read it through RSS. [4] It seems it will debut on December 17 instead. -- ReyBrujo 03:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Title North America Europe Japan
Dead or Alive 4 No No No
I assume that this means it can be removed from the list? I'll do it. --Sum0 20:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

HD DVD?

Does the Xbox360 have HD DVD? The article is unclear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.85.24.83 (talk • contribs)

No, the Xbox 360, at launch time, does not come with it. And although Microsoft stated that a new version of Xbox 360 may be launched in the future with HD-DVD or (or maybe even Blu-ray) support, that technology would not be used for games, in order to keep the compatibility between the original Xbox 360 and future released ones. -- ReyBrujo 16:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
If Microsoft wants to be top-level competitive, shouldn't they do a rerelease and use Blu-ray for games too? With all the overheating and freezing of my Xbox 360, I vote for a new release anyway. Right now the hardware problems are maintained, not solved. :( ShotokanTuning 07:24, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, but this is impossible. The choice was definitive and if Microsoft migrate your games to HD-DVD it will crash the installed base. --Brazil4Linux 02:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The Xbox 360 has a DVD 9 drive (a double layer DVD with a capacity of 9.4 GB), Microsoft has said it might incorporate HD-DVD in the future, but for movie playback only, not games. There is no chance of Blu-ray as Sony is developing it, so either Microsoft won't use it or Sony won't let them. Blu-ray (27 GB/layer) discs have a bigger capacity of both HD-DVD (15 GB/layer) and DVD (4.7 GB/layer)but at the time of release for the PS3 (which uses Blu-Ray) the read times for them will be much slower than DVD's so there will be longer load times for the PS3.

The PS3 will not have slower load times using blu-ray disks, in fact DVD's are much slower than bluray disks. Bluray has a read speed at 2x of 72Mbps while DVD's have a max data transfer rate of 16Mbps at 12X even at 1x bluray is as much as 3X faster
You need a math lession. (Note: I'm using MegaBYTES over MegaBITS in this comparison) Blu-Ray 2x = 9MBps, 12x DVD-ROM = over 16MBps (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd#Technical_information). Xbox360 therefore has higher max transfer rates than PS3. -anon
The anonomous guy is right. Even if if the PS3 uses Blu-Ray 2x (which is still about 50/50 right now) DVD-ROM is much faster, especially when you realize how much stuff is going to be stored on the BDRom uncompressed.
Blu-Ray speed in PS3 is a speculation at this point, it could be 1x, 2x, 3x, or 4x. Drives with all those speeds should be ready by the time console is released, it's a matter of which will be adopted. In case of 1x and 2x speed, the transfer rate will be less than that of 12x DVD drive in Xbox 360. In case of 3x and 4x speed, transfer will be close to or higher than 12x DVD drive. Regardless of Blu-Ray speed, the drive will be reading DVDs too, so if the Bly-Ray transfer rate ends up being too low, the DVD transfer rate should at least match that of 12x DVD drive, and the games can be delivered on DVDs. If this seems confusing, remember that for example, drive in PS2 reads DVDs at a 4x speed, but reads CDs at 32x speed. Same kind of operation will hold true for Blu-Ray drives.

Seraphim 20:04, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#1.7 -anon

SIGN.........YOUR......POSTS.......!!!!!Tik 14:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Aaaand once again I was right. Gosh this feels good!

--Pinnecco 09:19, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that in an recent magazine article, (i want to say gates stated this, but i dont have access to it from here) microsoft said that if they lost the format war they would switch to blu-ray. thought it was interesting...Tik 14:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

It was Peter More the one who stated that. [5] -- ReyBrujo 16:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
yeah, i shoulda known, he says a lot of stuff he shouldnt.....Tik 16:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Connectivity

I've asked this before, but now that it's out, could someone fill in this table below with {{yes}} and {{no}} to tell me what X360 can and can't do? I'm not saying to use it for the article or anything though. Even if you only know one, fill it in.

Windows XP Windows Media Center 2005
Stream Video
Stream Audio
Copy Audio from
Copy Video from
Copy Audio to
- RedHotHeat 16:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps this would be better suited in the Reference desk — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 03:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
A great idea! --Brazil4Linux 02:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

i have a related question. if i convert a video into wma format, can the 360 read it from a standard burnt dvd? if thats the case it will be so much easier to watch home movies. Tik 15:55, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

(In case anyone else is wondering I know the above answers now) Assuming you mean wmv, then unfortunately no. I have tried this and it refused to play (I think). Actually I can't remember for sure if I tried a CD so I will now. - RHeodt 12:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Record from your TV?

Is it possible to record TV shows to the xbox 360 hard drive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.252.72.10 (talk • contribs)

It depends. If the xbox 360 can record video games, yes it can record tv shows, but you need to start buying connection cables & wires:P >x<ino 11:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

LOL, you are kidding right? my god.. LOL --Brazil4Linux 01:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
No, the Xbox 360 can't record your TV shows, though it does function as a Media Center Extender. Meaning that, if you have a Windows Media Center PC with the proper connections, you can record TV onto your PC and later play it back on your TV using the Xbox 360, along with any other videos you might have on your PC in compatible formats. Without a Media Center PC you are only able to stream Music and Pictures to the 360.--Arcaynn 19:58, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Lounge Accident

On the opening day of the Xbox 360 Lounge in Japan, one guest (a pop singer, will get his name if it's important) invited to the opening ceremony got hit in the head by a standing light fixture that somehow fell down. He got a bump on his head and it wasn't serious. Should this information be included or would this be too trivial? Some people will take this as a bad omen. --Revth 01:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I think is more interesting talk about PGR3 crashes. And Final Fantasy XII waiting by the 99.8% by japaneses gamers. --Brazil4Linux 02:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that's too trivial, Revth. The fact that no RPGs will be in the Japanese launch, and that Ninety Nine Nights has been delayed until Spring 06, is more pertinent. Dionyseus 10:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Fanboys blanking?

Some Fanboys are blaking my contributions (Technical Issues/DVD Movie/Huge Power Suply and Energy Hungry). It's sourced and all true and confirmed by reliable tech site Ars Technica and CNET. I ask for Microsoft Xbox Fanboys stop make this. This isn't MSN kids. This is open-source information. No Censorship. --Brazil4Linux 13:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

You contributions are fine and shouldn't be removed, but I think all the criticisms should be moved into one section and rephrased for clarity and flow. Having several small two-sentence sections that describe one problem or complaint with the device is pretty ugly looking. Don't get offended by major rewording of what you've added, but you can pretty safely just revert any wholesale blanking; especially by anonymous users.-- uberpenguin 16:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
First of all, I am not a fanboy. Second, I believe this is one of the first times I revert something from you, so don't threat me at my Talk Page, as if I had been reverting all your changes like GoldDragon. From my point of view, I followed the rules where it states that blogs are not good sources. You should follow the rules in a civilized way, not just insult me.
If CNET blog is fine, just tell me and be done. You have a very childish behaviour. As you said, This is open-source information. If you don't like a change, discuss, don't threat. Who do you think you are? -- ReyBrujo 22:36, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
He overreacted, you should have been more careful about wholesale deletion of content. Be the bigger person, let it go, and concentrate on making the information more accurate rather than simply removing it. -- uberpenguin 23:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
CNET is a blog? Ars Technica is a blog? LOL Fanboys are fun. --Brazil4Linux 01:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, to be correct... The article you linked on CNet here says directly at the top 'The CNet Blog'. So while it is CNet... it is also a blog. --Syrthiss 02:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
You are right, Uberpenguin. Brazil4Linux, I am sorry if you felt your edits were given no proper judgement by me, it was not my intention. As I said, assume good faith, don't threat, don't call people stupid, and everything will go fine. From my part, I will try to understand a fanboy better. -- ReyBrujo 02:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey, don't mind those fools

all you have to do is..revert your contribution

>x<ino 16:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't been "blanking" but I do disagree on the inclusion of the "large power supply". The 360 is essentially a high-end gaming PC from the hardware standpoint, and that means large power consumption, and the space needed to convert and distribute that power. All other consoles have a power supply as well - usually inside the console. I will admit that the 360's PS is large, but it's not a technical issue in the sense of a design flaw.--Arcaynn 20:02, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Burn in

I removed the small section on Burn-in, as this is a universal happening in all CRTs and any other type of display that I know of. It is not isolated to the 360 and I do not believe has a place in this article. --Arcaynn 07:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Burn-ins do not occur in CRTs, LCDs, or DLPs. It only happens in older projection TVs and plasmas

Burn-in certainly DOES occur in CRTs; I have several lying around here with very severe burn in. Newer ones are much harder to burn in than the old green phosphor screens used in dumb terminals, but it can still happen. -- uberpenguin 20:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Rumours and WikiPedia

I've again removed the section on "Project Light Flame" since it is nothing but a minor rumour at this time. The section references this article on some console game fan site (herein lies credibility flag number 1). The site states that some other site has found some sort of evidence (nature unspecified) of the described campaign. It also cites yet a third site as ITS source (third-hand information? credibility flag number 2). Visiting the third-hand source that the '360monster' site cites, we find this notice "EDIT: It has emerged that shortly after we published this article, 1UP.com removed the source from their website. No reason was given; although subsequent reports suggest questions surrounding the validity of their source. We apologise for any confusion." [6] This (third hand) site now reports that the (second hand) site has taken down the original information because of "questions surrounding (its) validity." Ladies and gentlemen, kind sirs, this is what is known as an internet rumour. Totally unverified information that is circulated on every single game-related blog is unfit for inclusion here until it can be verified by a reputable news source (and is one good reason not to even use blogs as a source for an article).

See how much trouble and dialogue we could have saved if everybody kindly checked their sources and attempted to only use first-hand sources from reputable news outlets? -- uberpenguin 04:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I must say that, according to Wikipedia inclusion policy, The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. So, even if it is a wild rumour, if it can be verified by visiting a site like 1Up or IGN, it can be accepted into Wikipedia. I am not referring to this article in particular, but as a general rule. -- ReyBrujo 13:01, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, of course, but balance this information with the suggestions in Wikipedia:Reliable sources and my point still stands. -- uberpenguin 13:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I never disagreed with your point. I was just saying that if the "Project Light Flame" is stated in IGN as a fact, or if they suddenly say something wild like that you will be able to download Zelda games from the Xbox Marketplace, since it is a reliable source and is verifiable by going to an IGN link, it can be included in the article. Just wanted to prevent a generalization by others that might read these comments. -- ReyBrujo 13:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
IGN is still, AFAIK, always a second-hand source. If IGN is reporting on a verifiable story that has a trustworthy cited source like a company press release, then of course that information can be added here. However, the source cited here should be the original press release and not IGN's reporting on it. -- uberpenguin 21:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

External links section

Just how many editorials, fan sites, blogs, and game news sites do we need to link? According to policy (Wikipedia:External_links), we really should only be linking to one notable editorial dump/fansite/blog/game review site, not ten. My personal feeling is that these links are unneccessary in the first place since one doesn't have to go far out of their way to find one of the bajillion gaming related blog-o-editorial-sites out there. Of course this is contestable, but I'd like to see at least some discussion on what site in this category SHOULD be linked and why, rather than simply tolerating a big mess of various sites with almost identical content. In general, we want to include links that provide a significant informative experience beyond what we can cover here, and endless editorials about one person's view of a console and/or the ever-dreaded ill conceived and poorly backed console comparisons just don't qualify as a "significant informative experience" in my mind. Therefore, I've removed most of the external links section and left only what I felt are really worthwhile reading and actually relevant to this subject matter (i.e., not just one of the plethora of general game culture and game review sites). I've also added a link to an IBM DeveloperWorks article that provides a useful (albeit regrettably basic) overview of the design of the Xbox 360 CPU. I left the "Related gaming articles" section in tact largely because I didn't want to cause anybody too much mental shock, but I think its contents should likewise be evaluated.

Comments are appreciated. Remember that Wikipedia articles aren't directories or link dumps, so any links we consider adding should have their value critically examined before they are included in the article. -- uberpenguin 14:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

How about we only list sites used in creating the article. This way we can be 100% sure we are only listing useful ones. --Vironex 19:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Dashboard

Being that the dashboard is such a critical part of the XBox360, should a section be made in this article about it or put on it's own page? Drakino 19:00, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so...

It should need more information about it, or els it will be a stub.

The only information about it is, the 5 selection, Market Place, my Games ect Let's see what wiki has to say >x<ino 19:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I've started a section on it in the main article. I'll try to add more later, and also will try to find some good screenshots that aren't from an early beta to use. Drakino

Hey!, great work on it:P

I also added some info for you:D

>x<ino 00:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Xbox games that will not work on the Xbox 360

A list of Xbox games that will not work on the new Xbox 360. Please ad any title that will only be usefull on the first and original Xbox console.

Microsoft is adding emulation profiles all the time [supposedly], I would check back often. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 03:19, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
This is rather pointless as anything that's not on the compatibility list should not be playable on the Xbox 360.

John Porcaro's blog

http://www.johnporcaro.com/

He is a marketing manager for the 360. It has some interesting info, might be good to incorporate some info in the wiki, or use it to substantiate/cite facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.109.76 (talk • contribs)

After reading through it, no. When he gets fired for incompetence in trying to sell Xbox 360 to Japan, yes. -- Revth 13:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


No Sales Data For The North American Region Released By Microsoft

Anyone else surprised that Microsoft hasn't released any sales data yet? We quickly got the data for the Japanese launch, but nada for the North American region, this is unheard of. It is typical for sales data to be quickly released within days of openings, which is obviously helpful for consumers and potential stock holders. Perhaps the launch in North America wasn't as good as Microsoft expected, and they decided not to release sales data? Who knows... Dionyseus 20:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

They are waiting reach 1 milion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.29.243.175 (talk • contribs)
It is a technical problem. In Japan there is a sotisficated network where each retailer is connected to a central database. When you buy a console or game, the retailer registers your console or game into the database before giving it to you. [7] Thus, Media Create is able to have exact numbers. As you have noticed, Sony and Microsoft only release information about shipped consoles, because those are the numbers they have: they know how many they have shipped only. And since Xbox 360 sold out, the amount of shipped consoles should be slightly above the amount of sold ones. They will surely release numbers once they have shipped enough consoles so that there is no shortage. -- ReyBrujo 17:55, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
0.9 million units sold, released on Jan 26th 06 with the MS quarter report.
You generally won't see sales figures released outside of quarterly reports unless sales deviate significantly from projections or if the figures are otherwise noteworthy. The shareholders get kind of pissy otherwise. 24.18.202.92

Inflate Demand

Any reasons why the following was removed with regards to criticism to Microsoft by consumers?

"[...] and by consumers that Microsoft is adopting a tactic to inflate demand on the console"

this doesn't mean is the absolute truth, but people are indeed taslking about the possibility of Microsoft forcing a "selling out" of Xbox 360

--Pinnecco 00:00, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Internet rumours spread to blogs the quickest, and the Google test is not generally a very good measure of the truth of something. There is no concrete evidence for such a tactic, just random musings and speculation. Now, if you have some articles that cite respectable sources and give REASONS why this might be the case, rather than simply guessing as to Microsoft's motives, then by all means post them here. Otherwise this information has to be considered unencyclopedic. -- uberpenguin 00:30, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
If the opinion of stores complaining of not enough consoles being supplied to them is published, why not the opinion of users? Anyway, this is a common tactic and I will repeat what I said above:
this doesn't mean is the absolute truth, but people are indeed talking about the possibility of Microsoft forcing a 'selling out' of Xbox 360 --Pinnecco 12:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Do you really expect a company to give a press statement confirming a controvertial marketing tactic?
Retailers in the land of King Herald V are each being alloted a supply of 20 consoles, 6 core editions and 14 premium versions. But there is a catch: In order to get all of them, each shop or chain has to sign an agreement saying that they will sell out of all 20 consoles on the release date (which is December 2 over there). On top of that, the retailers must agree to sell a minimum of 2 games per console.

--Pinnecco 12:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Phrases like "opinion" and "people talking" all smack of rumor. Microsoft is a favorite target for rumour, and all a person has to do to start a plethora of MS gossip is throw up the 'anticompetitive' or 'greedy' tactics flags, and what do you know, all the blogs on the internet start buzzing, and all kinds of stories appear that seem to support the idea appear. Again, the only evidence for this rumor so far is one or two unsourced anecdotes. If this really IS happening, more people and more reliable sources will come out with statements in the near future. One of the very sources you cited states that their sources are unreliable and should be taken with a grain of salt. That in itself is a very good reason not to include the information here. Wikipedia isn't a blog or a rumour/gossip mill; it's not going to kill the article if we delay inclusion of highly questionable material for a while to see if it is indeed reliable. -- uberpenguin 12:42, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Agreed --Pinnecco 23:58, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Why the name?

What does the "360" represent in the XBox 360? Why not the XBox 2? -- Creidieki 05:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

If Xbox 2 was the final name, it will represent that it is behind PS2, and ps2 is adhead with ps3. Because ps2 are moving to PS3. And xbox is better than ps2, so if it is called xbox 2, xbox are behind. I don't fully know what the 360 stands for, but i know this Xbox 360. >x<ino 06:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Great question! 360 can mean you in the center of all media convergence, or to see and to feel the console for all the angles possible and the high-3D powe capabilities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.29.23.206 (talk • contribs)
Another possible reason is that the Xbox is a full 360 spin from what we're used to. There may be various reasons for naming it such. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 23:57, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Xino. That's exactly what I thought (I think). I can't be sure, since I think the way you phrased it was a bit messed up, but the way I see it is: They needed to skip 2, to catch up with PS3, and they couldn't call it Xbox 3, since there was no 2 and it would look like a series number like PS2, PS3. So, instead they decided to use 360 since its a well known number and people wouldn't question the fact that it was 3 instead of 2, since it would actually be 360, but that subconsciencly they would. Like I said, that's just what I think - RHeodt 12:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
If you watch some of the PR videos microsoft put out (I believe it's mentioned in the ourcolony video) they explain that there are alot of reasons for the 360. One of them is of course not wanting an xbox2 vs a ps3 on the shelves. However they like the idea of a circle because it represents community and togetherness, and at the same time 360 = a revolution which ironically is the codename of the new nintendo system :)

Japanese Pricing

The article makes mention of a Japanese price cut to ~$100 implying this is due to poor demand. Whilst it does rightly mention that this price was tied to a 2-year broadband deal, it fails to note that this kind of deal is quite common in Japan with all consoles. The pricing had little to do with demand. I would suggest that this comment be removed as it has little actual substance upon proper analysis and only served to provide an amusing news story for certain websites that catered to anti-Microsoft readerships. -- Walshicus 29/12/05 15:57 GMT

Instead of removing, it could just be added in that this behavior (about pricing and broadband deals) is common and does not reflect the popularity of the console. That would probably make it more NPOV. Also, i think the japanese have spoken for themselves about how much they like the console, there were plenty still left on store shelves on launch day. But honestly who can blame them, they got shafted with only a handful of games and some games that SHOULD have been available were not i.e. DOA4, if more had been provided then it probably would be a different story, i think though that with more releases 360 will fair better later on.Tik 14:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I already started to do that. If you look at the section you can see that I rewrote some of it. If you can come up with better wording please change it :) Seraphim 20:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Wiki360.net

Can we include Wiki360.net in the external links since it is mostly an extentsion (yet underdeveloped) of this page? Linking it on wikipedia would give it more exposure and therefore more information would be added which would end up in a more detailed version of the wikipedia page. It could also work as a community support thing as well. --AGruntsJaggon 10:09, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that would be rather tacky. Mark1 12:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree with mark, why would wikipedia link to another wiki? SeraphimXI 05:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
For an extension/expansion of wikipedia's documentation. --AGruntsJaggon 09:25, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Power supply section

Obviously this is not a real technical issue, even the section says so. But it needs to be adressed in the article because it is an issue with the system, however a general critizism section might get too messy. Anyone have any ideas? SeraphimXI 05:43, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I say create a section about what the box contents are, with a small descriptor about the power supply. To me it really doesn't seem very noteworthy.--Arcaynn 07:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
It should include something about the Power supply needing to be off the floor and getting good ventilation to reduce the risk of overheating. --AGruntsJaggon 09:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Playing DVD movies

Article contains text Universal Media Remote: allows the user to play DVD movies and music - unclear whether this means you've got to have a universal media remote in order to play movies. Don't know myself, truth be known. Anyone know? --Oscarthecat 21:50, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

You don't need the remote to play DVD movies. Seraphim 22:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, page updated. --Oscarthecat 22:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Dont need it, I play movies with the wireless controller all the time. Also the bonus remote is different from the store sold remote. I noticed the store ones have a number pad. --AGruntsJaggon 09:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


Updating needed

Much of the text in the later sections of the article that refers to the launch of this console is in the future tense. Sentences read "the console will support emulation of 200 games at launch," when they should read "the console supported emulation of 200 games at lanuch" or "the console currently supports emulation of 214 games." I posted an "update" tag on the article to bring attention to this problem.

--Quintin3265 21:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

HD-DVD external drive

Bill Gates announced today in CES an HD-DVD external drive accesory and Street Fighter 2 disponible in LIVE Marketplace in 2006. Someons update...

The HD-DVD part was already added. I added in a section on Live Marketplace and Arcade in general. Since Live Arcade already has it's own page, I don't think that individual games need to be added here. Joe McCullough | (talk) 15:41, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Another thing: watch the MS CES conference (found in torrent sites) and see the point Gates says that nothing hinders the release of Xbox 360 games in HD-DVD in the future.
It would be a contradiction with what has already been stated. But, in this world, everything is possible. -- ReyBrujo 18:04, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
He didn't said nothing about before, only Japan/Xbox officer said an opinion and the gaming press take as a final decision. Remember that for Microsoft this is crucial to push HD-DVD in the war format against Blu-ray. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.29.27.18 (talk • contribs)
It is still a contradiction. It was the Xbox chief in Japan who said that, not some unknown guy. And although Microsoft pushes for HD-DVD, they will adopt Blu-Ray if it becomes the standard too. Either this Xbox chief lied so that people would buy Xbox (had Microsoft stated they would be releasing a new Xbox with HD-DVD support in 2006, they would have not been able to sell as many 360s as they had done), he did not know about these plans (something that could be possible, given Microsoft faltering interest in Orient in general and Japan in particular), they decided to add it before but kept that information for the management only, or they just added it on the fly, just like Sega decided to create the 32X, and Nintendo the 64DD. -- ReyBrujo 02:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Various sources including Maruyama (the japanese head) and Peter Moore has clear up that games will not be released on HD-DVD, so this is settled.

Updated this section a little. Also removed a duplicate section later in hte article. Not sure how well I did it so help me out. --Arcaynn 20:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Anyone know if the Ethernet cable is a stared Patch or if it's a cross over? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.20.145.241 (talk • contribs)

As far as I know, it is a straight through. I could be wrong though, I honestly haven't used mine. when I go home tonight, I'll check it out.--Arcaynn 20:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Microsoft abandoning 90 day sales goals

The source cited for this sentence contains inaccurate information and uses out of context quotes to imply statements made by company officials were answers to questions not asked. It is not an accurate source and should not be used.

Inaccurate NG source material: "In a report in today's Financial Times, the company shifted its attention to the longer-term target outlined at CES last week. The firm now says it will hit sales of 4 million to 5.5 million by the end of its financial year, in June." [10]

Source quote inaccurately relays sales June sales target announced at CES as 4 million instead of 4.5 million. There is no 4 million figure cited in the FT source article used by NG. Transcript of CES speech cited by the NG article:

"Let's fast-forward to Xbox 360. We're quickly moving from thought leadership to market leadership. And tonight I'm pleased to announce that Xbox 360 achieved an unprecedented global launch for the world of videogame consoles. In the first 90 days we will have launched Xbox 360 in nearly 30 countries, and Xbox 360 is on track to ship between 4.5 and 5.5 million consoles by the end of June." [11]

The 4.5 to 5.5 million console target by June 2006 is not a revised target estimate. Published articles can be found stating this target prior to the console's launch. This quote was published November 8th, 2005:

"The 90-day sales target totals more than half of Microsoft’s target of selling between 4.5 and 5.5 million Xbox 360 consoles by the end of the current business year to June 2006." [12]

Other misc points of note:

  • At no point does a Microsoft official acknowledge missing 90 day sales targets. It cites analyst estimates, omission of a 90 day sentence in the CES speach, and the "shortage" as probable evidence of missing a 90 day sales target.
    • "[Microsoft] is now expected to miss its target of shipping 2.75m-3m ..." [13]
    • "Analysts estimate shipments at 1.3m worldwide by the end of 2005, with shortages predicted for January." [14]
    • "...Microsoft did not reiterate its 90-day target..." [15]
  • The NG article uses a quote from the FT article out of context, using it to imply that a Microsoft official was explaining why sales targets were being missed. The FT source article contains a quote acknolwedging production "glitches", though no data is associated with the impact of those glitches.
    • Out of context quote:
"Analysts believe sales of the console had hit around 1.3 million by the end of the Holiday sales period. But as January moves along, retailers have yet to see evidence of shortages easing."
"Xbox 360 chief Peter Moore explained, 'Nothing's perfect - you've got a complex piece of hardware that includes1,700 different parts. Every now and again the line will slow down because something's happened and there'll be a component that didn't make it that morning.'"
    • In context quote:
"'Celestica coming online makes us feel real good about our ability to do 4.5m to 5.5m, and June is important because it's our fiscal year,' he said."
"'As interesting as data points of how many are shipped on launch day are, they're immaterial to the bigger picture of the life-cycle and the overall effect for Microsoft.'"
"Mr Moore said there had been production glitches: 'Nothing's perfect - you've got a complex piece of hardware that's got 1,700 different parts in it, every now and again the line will slow down because something's happened and there'll be a component that didn't make it that morning.'"
"But he insisted: 'That's just the way of the beast, particularly when you are ramping up factories from ground zero all the way up to full capacity.'"
  • The addition of Celestica as a hardware manufacturer is not in reaction to a shortfall in production. Celestica was cited as a third manufacturer as early as November 8th:
"Microsoft has contracted with three electronics manufacturers to build the Xbox 360: Flextronics International Ltd, Wistron Inc, and Celestica Inc. The Celestica plant is expected to come online in early 2006." [16]

As far as I can tell, all of the information cited from Microsoft officials has not changed since before the console launched. As such, I don't see how a reasonable person could conclude that Microsoft is making any acknolwedgement that their 90 day targets have been missed. 24.18.202.92 12:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC) mirobin

Be bold and change it. However, note that you can't put the Financial Times link directly, as it needs suscription and may not be a good reference. Maybe this link would be better instead of Next-Gen one? -- ReyBrujo 12:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I did change it, but I wanted to put my (long) justification in here to refute the source (as most 'versions' of the story I've seen have the same issues present), in case someone got upset about it. The FT website is a little wierd. For awhile I was reading the page in a search engine cache link, then the page was pulling up fine without registering, and now its back to the registration required page ... *sigh* I found this article on gamespot; that pretty much hits it home.  :) 24.18.202.92 13:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)mirobin

New Site Resource for "External Links"

I would like to ask for consideration of a new resource for the Xbox 360 page please - Planet Xbox 360

It is a complete all round resource for the console, and contains everything from the hardware specifications and technical discussions, to game previews and reviews. It is not a simple hobby site, but one of the largest and complete Xbox 360 dedicated websites on the internet, and is certainly on par with some of the other articles/links posted on the main Xbox 360 page.

I feel that the inclusion of Planet Xbox 360 would be very useful to people looking for information on the console.

Entrep1 02:11, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm against adding it. Right now the external links section is very small, and already contains IGN's xbox 360 page for news. If I were to add another news site i'd problary add either xbox-scene or gamespot's page first.
More points get taken off of the planetxbox360 site for having a TON of advertisments on the sidebars. I don't really feel it would add anything to the article, since it isn't well known.
I must add they do have alot of news postings, which is good, however some of it isn't very NPOV and with the extremely high standards put on the external links section in this article, a fairly unknown website just doesn't belong there, sorry.Seraphim 06:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
That is exactly the thing - all those bigger sites dont cover all the news, nor necessarily have ALL the best information and articles. I also think you'll find it has approximately the same amount of ads as those other sites you mentioned, it may just not look as pretty.
Planet Xbox 360 is also extremely well known among gamers and has broken stories such as the advertising brochure leak and kiosk machine glitch errors. I thought the article was to provide useful information to people looking for information on the Xbox 360, not how (currently) well known a site may be.
Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Entrep1 (talk • contribs)
The thing about the bigger sites is that they have to make sure what they report is accurate. Also the site is not extremely well known about gamers. I've never heard of it, and the forums for it are quite small. Also according to google the highest ranked site that links to the page, is dreamstation.cc which is an advertising company, and then after that the majority of the links are websites that are listed as an affiliate or internal website links, if we add the link this will be the highest ranked google page that links to the website. Nothing points to the site being "extremely well known" among gamers.
I simply don't see any reason to add that link over the IGN link. They both cover the same stuff. Seraphim 18:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Also against adding it for cited reasons... The advertising assault and the overlap with the content of other already linked sites. I see no merits on adding this link over the current news site. -- uberpenguin 18:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

First Display of Xbox 360 Power?

Here is the image of Fight Night 3

Picture 1 Picture 2

yes, those are ingame. there is no HUD in the game.

Backwards compatability Wiki-template?

No idea where to request one or even to see if there is one, but would it be feasible to create a template to stick on Xbox game Wiki articles to say if they are backwards compatible or not? -- NeoDude0 04:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Transistor count

Where does the figure 337M come from?

We know the parent die is 232M transistors - confirmed by ATi officially [17], but in a recent interview with ATi they said the daughter die was only 90M, which is likely an approximation [18].

100M was an old guess based on the DRAM taking 80M transistors, so the AA/logic may have taken another 20M. 322M is the best figure we have at this time, without official confirmation of the daughter die. ElWarri 07:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

This very concerning, as ATI has gone on record saying that the daughter die has 90M, 100M and 105M transistors. I wish we could get an accurate figure on it. It would appear that at least 10,485,760 transistors (10.48M) would be required for the eDRAM, leaving 80-90M for logic? Perhaps the 90M figure excludes the transistors used for the eDRAM? --Thax 20:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I just made a big mistake, I used bytes, so 83886080 bits which means that 83.88M is used for RAM leaving 6M-16M for logic. Anyone have a picture of the actual die to see surface areas? --Thax 20:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
I have found a picture of the die surface area, less than 1/2 half is devoted to the eDRAM. Although eDRAM is substantially more dense than the logic, it is unlikely that the logic is only 6M transistors. I am currently trying to get an authoratative response. --Thax 17:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
The latest offical transistor count is still 105 million, that count comes from ATI engineering as per the following discussion: Beyond3D discussion. I will do some additional research, if I cannot find a more authoratative response then I will revert the transistor count back to 105 million. --Thax 18:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Alright, Daves word is good enough for me. ElWarri 00:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Clean up

This article needs a major audit. Portions of it are well-written, but others are sloppy. They lack consistent voice, are worded in an unencyclopedic fashion, or have spelling, grammatical, capitalization, or punctuation errors. The worst sections are "Dashboard" (use of second person), Xbox Live, "Technical Issues" (which seems to be written as if it were a conversation describing how to fix all the problems), "Xbox 360, Linux and DRM", and "Modding the Xbox".—Kbolino 07:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

If you really believe so, tag it with {{inappropriate tone}}. That should bring attention from normal editors immediately (nobody likes that tag ;)). -- ReyBrujo 16:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
That "Modding the Xbox" section and the Linux section got dropped a few days ago, as part of an edit. I've reinstated them because I feel it's a genuinely interesting section, and one that's likely to grow as time progresses, just like on the Xbox. Popped the inappropriate tone tag on, thanks for the tip. --Oscarthecat 14:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Oscar the reason I dropped it was because it is pure speculation. Right now there is no way to mod the xbox360 therefore the section is pointless since it's expected behavior. If they do manage to mod the system then it will belong in the article. But not right now. Seraphim 21:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Xbox delayed for aussies

Geez, does anyone know why the xbox360 was delayed for THREE WEEKS!

So you have boxes on the shelves for more than 5 minutes.Seraphim 05:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
That's not the point, I pre-booked it, screw all those people who didn't prebook. Zhanster 02:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

VIP Pack + Australia/New Zealand Launch

Anyone else think the VIP Pack information should be moved from Technical Issues? I'd say create something like an 'Australasian' or 'Australia and New Zealand Launch' under the Console Launch heading, and then include the information on the VIP pack following the Aus/NZ launch details. Riff 15:46, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

done.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.0.182 (talk • contribs)

Adding Sales Data Section

I'm suggesting to have a dedicated section for total sales data. I don't think that's part of the original Xbox page, nor on the 360, but I think it should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.0.182 (talk • contribs)

done.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.0.182 (talk • contribs)
If your going to suggest something, it's customary to wait for imput before adding it. The word suggestion implies that your suggesting that you add something, not are going to add it 30 minutes after you suggest it with no discussion. In the future just say that you added something :) Oh and sign your comments! Seraphim 03:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about that. I was waiting for the discussion, but I suppose the sudden urge just got me. 71.109.0.182 09:17, 29 January 2006 (UTC)71.109.0.182
It's ok :p I just got confused lol, looked at the article first, saw the section, then saw you wanting discussion here :p Seraphim 09:47, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Xbox360 Linux/DRM Modding and Kiosk Disc Boot section removal =

I do not believe that these sections do anything but add extra length to this article. All game consoles use some sort of DRM system, ever since the NES came out and started require liscencing, it's expected behavior, if it did not use DRM then it would be notable and need to be included, the fact that it doesn't allow unsigned code to run is expected behavior and doesn't need to be included.

As of right now it is impossible to Mod the Xbox 360 there is nothing we could add to a section called "modding the xbox 360" since it is currently impossible. The text that was in that section was xbox relevant not xbox 360 relevant, saying that it is possible to mod the xbox 1 is irrelevant in this article.

The kiosk booting was way overhyped. They never got any unsigned code to run on the systems using it, and now it's been fixed. It's more like a random trivia question then a section in this article.

Once/if something is actually accomplished it will become relevant to this article. But for now all this will become is a way of adding links to various hacking communities, since all they would need to be included in the article is to claim that they are working on it. I say we leave all this modding stuff out of the article untill there is actually some good content to add, instead of pure speculation which is not encyclopedic. --SeraphimXI

I thought the section interesting, having first seen details of the hacking attempts on BBC News [19]. If I am in the minority, fair enough, let's keep this hacking stuff out of the article. I'm sure it only upsets Microsoft, and we don't want that. --Oscarthecat 22:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
If anything it makes Microsoft happy, since the hackers have had access to the system for about 2 months now, and they still can't find any way to mod it. Usually systems are modded almost instantly, and then the softmod comes later when they find an exploit. IMO the fact that a system hasn't been hacked isn't news, since that's expected behavior. It becomes noteworthy once the system is compromised. Seraphim 22:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Introduction Reconstruction

I wasn't too happy with how the intro sounded, so I chopped and changed it a bit, I personally think it's more 'introduction-like' now, explaining what the 360 is before it goes into when it was/is to be released. Third paragraph, the one detailing the two kinds of 360 packages, needs work, though, anyone is welcome to tackle it, or revert if you don't like the new style. By the way, the wired controllers have a break-away feature, what does that entail exactly, and should it be included? Riff 03:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

If it's the old breakaway feature, it's a small connector designed to come apart with less force than it would take to slide/tip the console, and it can be reattached easily. Tehoretically meaning that if someone accidentally walks into a cable, it unsnaps and not only keeps your console safe, but usually can't exert enough force to actually trip someone (because it just comes apart). Gspawn 23:45, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

How did it come up with the name Xbox 360

Why not xbox 2?

Pece Kocovski 08:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It's bad marketing to have an Xbox 2 up against a Playstation 3. Seraphim 09:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I think I remembered them mention they you can do what you want with it, you can go in any direction. So, having 360 will explain this since 360 is a full circle meaning you can go in your own direction with the console. --Thorpe | talk 10:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
A LOT of reasons, and this has come up before on this talk page (see above). Some reasons: A circle is traditionally seen as the perfect shape, and this matched the console's roundness over the Xbox. The circle represents a community, of which you can be a part of through Live. The full revolution stands for Microsoft looking at all the options, evaluating the project from every angle, and continuing in the direction that Xbox was going. And also to take a notch out of Nintendo's Revolution, in a "360 made a revolution first!" kind of way. Just for starters. ALSO: Focus groups just preferred the name. They said it sounded more "next-gen" than other options. Gspawn 23:31, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
The 360 got it's name without knowing that revolution was the code-name for nintendo's next system. Yeup that's right code-name. Revolution is not the name of nintendo's next system, they have confirmed that it's only a code name. Dolphin anyone? Seraphim 23:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/powerplay.htm
By now you've already heard how Xbox 360 puts you at the center of the most powerful games on the planet—hence the "360," as in 360 degrees (geometry students will recognize that as the number of degrees in a circle). To accomplish this feat, Microsoft® has brought together a full circle of powerful factors.
McDonaldsGuy

Link directory

Instead of putting loads of links in can we put in the directory of links? [20] --Thorpe | talk 10:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely a good idea. However, it's better to use DMOZ, with the handy dmoz template. For example, {{dmoz|Games/Video_Games/Console_Platforms/Microsoft/Xbox_360|Xbox 360}} becomes:
Xbox 360 at the Open Directory Project.
Haakon 11:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Keep the official ones in the article, and put a link to a directory instead of putting fan links here. -- ReyBrujo 18:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Physical Characteristics - 360's Weight

Could someone, possibly whoever first wrote it, specify under what conditions the 360 was weighed? ie, was it with/without HDD? Don't know how heavy the HDD is, but specifying might be a good idea. Riff 08:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Music games?

A comment about how the requirement for custom soundtracks might affect the business model for music video games was removed for "cleanup". Why was this done? I've strengthened its wording and re-added it. If it was removed for a good reason, please say so, and I may stop reverting. --Damian Yerrick (☎) 14:59, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Although I'm not the one who removed it, I can see why it was. The custom soundtrack will not affect games that rely on music, since developers can easily disable the custom soundtrack. An example is the game Condemned: Criminal Origins. At certain points in the game, the music plays a major part in the story and mood. At those points, your custom music is shut off and replaced with the in-game music. In fact, the "Select Music" option in the Xbox Guide is completely disabled. This same method can be applied to games based on music - the developers can simply not allow it to be replaced. Defkkon 15:11, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
One comment I forgot to make - some Microsoft reps have been quoted as saying something along the lines of "Users can always replace the music in their games". This is misleading, since as I mentioned, the developers can override this. Defkkon 15:15, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
OK, so it would appear that Microsoft has backed down from its hardline stance. So has Microsoft publicly stated under what conditions it will approve a game that disables custom music? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 18:28, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Microsoft has never addressed under what conditions the music will be allowed - which leaves me to believe that its up to the discretion of the developers. Technically, all games do support custom music since this is actually a function of the Xbox Guide, and not code within the game. This is similar to the online chat abilities. The game doesn't need to support the chat, since this is a function of the Guide. Its simply up to the developers to decide whether they want to disable the music or not. I'm sure Microsoft has guidelines or recommendations for developers, since they wouldn't want them disabling the custom music outright, unless it detracts from the gameplay. Defkkon 18:49, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Developers have to add extra code to disable the custom soundtracks, unlike on the regular xbox where they had to add extra code to enable it. MSFT's requirement is part of their liscencing requirements, unless the developers have a good reason for disabling the custom soundtracks microsoft won't let them distribute the game. Seraphim 21:07, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
By rocking out to Metallica during a crucial game moment, you might miss the tone of the scene or even be unable to hear parts altogether. This SHOULD be up to developers, and it is. This is similar to how Itagaki is still allowed to bind game saves to profiles- you can't transfer saved data in most Team Ninja games (console will refuse to copy to a memory card). This is mostly because Itagaki values how your accomplishments should be your own, so you're not allowed to import data. Again, something left up to the developer, as it should be (even if it is annoying somtimes). Gspawn 23:37, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

DirecTV

New section looks out of place. Is there a better area in the article for it? --OscarTheCattalk 22:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe a Dashboard -> Planned Features sort of section? Gspawn 23:40, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't get a section untill it's official. Seraphim 23:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually when you think about it future dashboard blades may not be a bad idea because there may be more added after the DirecTV dashboard. McDonaldsGuy

AV connection cables

This section was removed earlier by new user User:88.108.136.14. I've since reinstated the section, suggesting we discuss here. --OscarTheCattalk 14:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

There's nothing to discuss it was just blanking vandalism. Happens all the time Seraphim

Reliable xbox 360 cheat sites

Has anyone been able to find any reliable, non-spammy xbox 360 code sites?

I found this Xbox 360 cheats site but I'm looking for a few more that list all games.

Anyone know of any solid cheat code sites? 64.92.167.26 06:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Xbox 360 galaxy link...

Csmaster (as 128.62.82.24) wanted to add a link to [21] in the external links, but said he had trouble adding it to the talk page after I reverted their link addition. Per Csmaster: I just added it because it is another great resource, similar to IGN and gamespot. In my opinion, having IGN and Gamespot there already gives us enough examples of fansites...but figured I would assist them in adding a request in case someone felt differently. Thanks! --Syrthiss 17:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Somewhat uncharitably I'd like to vote NO to this and all other similar requests.HappyVR 18:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

hmm what exactly is the issue with it though? It's like saying we should only post IGN and not gamespot, since IGN has everything gamespot has and more. It's just another good resource, and from what I've seen, usually posts news BEFORE gamespot and IGN do. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry to say no, but what about these? :
http://xbox.gamespy.com/
http://www.xbox365.com/
http://www.xboxaddict.com/
http://www.planetxbox360.com/
http://www.oxm.co.uk/
http://www.teamxbox.com/
http://www.talkxbox.com/
http://www.xboxmagonline.com/
http://www.xboxsolution.com/
http://www.xboxcore.com/
They all seem to offer similar things. Should xboxgalaxy get a link because...
Personally I think it's probably unfair that gamespot and ign get refs. but not others. Looking at a wiki page for an established console (ps2) I notice it has no links to any commercial sites - except for specifically interesting articles - so I'd say - no and no to ign and gamespot too. (Its not as if people can't type xbox 360 into a search engine is it.)HappyVR 23:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Comparing The two different versions

 On the check list, it says that the core version does not ship with an ethenet cord, while in the picture it shows this?

Page long suggest archive

Apart from the above section "Comparing The two different versions" all issues have been resolved? The page is now very long and I suggest archiving it quite soon. o.k?HappyVR 17:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)