Talk:Xavier School
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Xavier School was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Reviewed version: January 8, 2007 |
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[edit] Recent changes
Recent changes have been made by user Pmgomez to this particular article. The changes have added information and images. Most of the information is lifted from numerous institutional materials, leading to non-neutral treatment of the subject matter, including the addition of boosterism, weasel statements, and unencyclopedic content. See the following: WP:NOT#SOAP, WP:NOT#IINFO, WP:NPOV. Reversion will continue until consensus is reached and/or intervention is required. Rmcsamson 16:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- Specify all, please, such that consensus may be reached soon. Pmgomez 16:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
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- Changes have been made to accomodate formatting losses. Most weasel statements and usage errors have been corrected. I've also asked for a third party to look into this, so we can get a third opinion. Rmcsamson 17:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
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- As previously mentioned, kindly provide a detailed explanation for each of the edits made. This will facilitate discussion for us to reach a consensus. Thank you. Pmgomez 03:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- OK, I'm understanding Rmc's problem now. Are you familiar with WP:WEASEL or WP:PEACOCK? The idea is that you're starting to sound more like an ad for the school and trying to make it sound good. Take [1] for example. You changed "Xavier considers commitment to be" to "Commitment is", implying that Xavier is full of commitment (which an encyclopedia should not do). Also, the statement In the same way, the school is committed in supporting its student-athletes by providing the best opportunities possible for their growth completely sounds like an advertisement for the school, and is in no way NPOV. Also, some of your other editions sounded like an ad for the school, like the addition of the sports arena [2], which is probably because it was taken almost completely from the website ([3]). That's a big no-no: unless you post something directly on the site stating otherwise, it is assumed to be a copyright violation (in fact, the site itself says "all rights reserved"). Finally, we have additions like [4], where "The Xavier fight song best embodies the spirit and culture that thrives...". Again, this is more booster-sounding language that is acceptable for a pamphlet advertising the school, but not for an encyclopedia article. As a result, I have reverted your changes; feel free to add any others back in, though we might take exception to some of those as well. I hope my explanation satisfies your questions. Patstuarttalk|edits 14:56, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- I've gone over some of the recent changes and have attempted to reconcile the new information and Wikipedia standards. I think this is a better middle ground as of now. Rmcsamson 15:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- OK, I'm understanding Rmc's problem now. Are you familiar with WP:WEASEL or WP:PEACOCK? The idea is that you're starting to sound more like an ad for the school and trying to make it sound good. Take [1] for example. You changed "Xavier considers commitment to be" to "Commitment is", implying that Xavier is full of commitment (which an encyclopedia should not do). Also, the statement In the same way, the school is committed in supporting its student-athletes by providing the best opportunities possible for their growth completely sounds like an advertisement for the school, and is in no way NPOV. Also, some of your other editions sounded like an ad for the school, like the addition of the sports arena [2], which is probably because it was taken almost completely from the website ([3]). That's a big no-no: unless you post something directly on the site stating otherwise, it is assumed to be a copyright violation (in fact, the site itself says "all rights reserved"). Finally, we have additions like [4], where "The Xavier fight song best embodies the spirit and culture that thrives...". Again, this is more booster-sounding language that is acceptable for a pamphlet advertising the school, but not for an encyclopedia article. As a result, I have reverted your changes; feel free to add any others back in, though we might take exception to some of those as well. I hope my explanation satisfies your questions. Patstuarttalk|edits 14:56, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- As previously mentioned, kindly provide a detailed explanation for each of the edits made. This will facilitate discussion for us to reach a consensus. Thank you. Pmgomez 03:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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- Thank you! Great job. Now we have a consensus. :) Pmgomez 17:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Do we really need all of the pics?
Save for the logo and a neat pic of the school grounds, the pics aren't needed. --Howard the Duck 12:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- Hi. Please enlighten me. Most encyclopedias I've seen include nifty pics. :) Pmgomez 15:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- First, the article doesn't need the pictures of the three priests, Image:XS_seals.jpg (but leave the clean version), Image:XS_orgchart.png, all of the pics at the academic (the triangles, etc.) and service sections, almost all of the pics at the athletics section (leave the SMB All-Stars pic), the site of Xavier II (grassland?! lol). With all of the pics you uploaded, you did miss out an important pic, the campus layout/map. Also, did you take them yourself, or are they copyrighted by the school? You'd have know that this is an encyclopedia, not a vehicle for advertising. --Howard the Duck 16:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I've listed 8 images for deletion. They're at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2006 December 15. --Howard the Duck 15:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
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- Replied. Pmgomez 17:31, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Errors
What are the errors in this edit so that it will be fixed? Thanks. If there's an error in the current edit, it's San Juan, Metro Manila inccorrectly linked. --Howard the Duck 06:47, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- The mascot is the Golden Stallion and not Hoofy, there are papers not paper, there are yearbooks not yearbook, etc. { PMGOMEZ } 06:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- So what do you call Hoofy? IMHO, Mascot=Hoofy, athletic team=Stallion. Are there more than one official yearbooks? Are there more than one official paper? --Howard the Duck 07:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Re Hoofy, read up. Re yearbooks, yes. Re papers, yes. { PMGOMEZ } 08:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Re Hoofy, ok, so he's a caricature. I understood it. As for yearbooks and papers, there are more than one official school-wide papers and yearbooks? This includes newsletters from the various clubs (like math club, etc.). So of you'd graduate from XS, you'd be forced pay for more than one yearbook? --Howard the Duck 11:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- "As for yearbooks and papers, there are more than one official school-wide papers and yearbooks?" >>> Yes. // "This includes newsletters from the various clubs (like math club, etc.)." >>> No. // "So of you'd graduate from XS, you'd be forced pay for more than one yearbook?" >>> No one's forced to pay for the yearbooks. If you don't want, don't pay. { PMGOMEZ } 17:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Then they can be added to the newspaper and yearbook columns, they don't have to be necessarily in plural, for example, in National Basketball Association says "Country" when in fact the NBA is played in 2 countries. --Howard the Duck 03:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- Add them, then. { PMGOMEZ } 02:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
- Then they can be added to the newspaper and yearbook columns, they don't have to be necessarily in plural, for example, in National Basketball Association says "Country" when in fact the NBA is played in 2 countries. --Howard the Duck 03:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- "As for yearbooks and papers, there are more than one official school-wide papers and yearbooks?" >>> Yes. // "This includes newsletters from the various clubs (like math club, etc.)." >>> No. // "So of you'd graduate from XS, you'd be forced pay for more than one yearbook?" >>> No one's forced to pay for the yearbooks. If you don't want, don't pay. { PMGOMEZ } 17:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Re Hoofy, ok, so he's a caricature. I understood it. As for yearbooks and papers, there are more than one official school-wide papers and yearbooks? This includes newsletters from the various clubs (like math club, etc.). So of you'd graduate from XS, you'd be forced pay for more than one yearbook? --Howard the Duck 11:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Re Hoofy, read up. Re yearbooks, yes. Re papers, yes. { PMGOMEZ } 08:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- So what do you call Hoofy? IMHO, Mascot=Hoofy, athletic team=Stallion. Are there more than one official yearbooks? Are there more than one official paper? --Howard the Duck 07:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox
I do not see why there is a necessary use of a template called "Infobox Philippine High School" when "Infobox Secondary School" has been around as an available standard that is more widely used. The Philippine High School infobox template is incomplete, and is really just redundancy which serves no practical purpose. The Secondary School infobox can be used with proper adjustment to labels and information. Rmcsamson 06:54, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- I completely agree! But until such time, Infobox Philippine High School is here to stay. :) { PMGOMEZ } 06:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- The Philippine High School infobox isn't here to stay since the consensus was delayed delete until the deficiencies of the Secondary school infobox is addressed. --Howard the Duck 06:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- I completely agree! But until such time, Infobox Philippine High School is here to stay. :) { PMGOMEZ } 06:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- The Philippine High School infobox isn't here to stay since the consensus was delayed delete until the deficiencies of the Secondary school infobox is addressed. --Howard the Duck 06:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
This discussion will be more appropriate in the discussion page of the template in question. Until consensus is reached justifying the use of a new, and in my opinion utterly useless, variation, I move to stick with the more widely-used standard (Infobox Secondary School). I will be making the reversion once that discussion's complete.Rmcsamson 07:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- You see, it has been poised for deletion, but User:Pmgomez reverts every replacement of his/her (I'm not sure, please don't get offended) Philippine High school infobox with Secondary School infobox. --Howard the Duck 07:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- See history for reason/s. { PMGOMEZ } 08:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- What can be clearly gleaned from the history is that there are SMALL bits of information that end up being omitted when there is a reversion to ISS. This omission can easily be remedied by supplying the apporpirate information and tags that are provided for in the ISS template, instead of resorting to the (useless) IPHS template.Rmcsamson 08:34, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Therefore person rv'ing to ISS ought to be careful not to omit. :) { PMGOMEZ } 08:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- I've taken extra-precaution to make sure no items were omitted. If there are problems, post at my talk. --Howard the Duck 11:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Will post probs here. So far, probs I've posted haven't been resolved. { PMGOMEZ } 17:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- I've taken extra-precaution to make sure no items were omitted. If there are problems, post at my talk. --Howard the Duck 11:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Therefore person rv'ing to ISS ought to be careful not to omit. :) { PMGOMEZ } 08:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- What can be clearly gleaned from the history is that there are SMALL bits of information that end up being omitted when there is a reversion to ISS. This omission can easily be remedied by supplying the apporpirate information and tags that are provided for in the ISS template, instead of resorting to the (useless) IPHS template.Rmcsamson 08:34, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- See history for reason/s. { PMGOMEZ } 08:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I've reverted the infobox to ISS, in line with the consensus reached in the TFD page for IPHS. Practically all other articles on Philippine high schools use ISS, and this one has no reason to be different, especially since any errors can easily be corrected using additional fields provided for in ISS. Rmcsamson 05:53, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
- FYI, revert to ISS caused loss of info (eg. Director, etc). Please fix. Thanks. { PMGOMEZ } 01:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] GA Nominee
GA? I'm willing to bet this won't pass hehehe. --Howard the Duck 14:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has been stalled in GA nom. I haven't read it thoroughly, but am considering nominating. I made a few minor edits to layout. I'd like to see the following improvements first:
- Take out the CAPS. Caps are usually considered unsightly. Replace with italics.
- spread out the pictures, if possible
- Cleanup wording, some sounds as if it came directly off the school's brochure.
- work on notability. How many of the alumni are actually notable?? Provide links to wikipedia pages if they have ones already. Otherwise, you may want to remove some things.
- are GNU image licenses proper? I think so, but am no expert.
- wikification needed of most parts, especially adding a few internal links (I added one myself to "Jubilee year")
- should there be a reference to the X-Men Xavier school? See Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters.
Danski14 01:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- The so-called "GNU images" have been traced to this website and are mostly copyright violations. --Howard the Duck 09:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
This article failed GA nom, for the reasons listed above, it fails on 1C, manual of style, 4a NPOV, 6c Images are blatant copyright violations. see Wikipedia:What is a good article?. Still, this is an impressive article, (perhaps even excessive article), for a secondary school. Danski14 18:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Native name
Should it just be "Paaralang Xavier" since Xavier's a Filipino school? { PMGOMEZ } 01:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
- If Xavier School uses "Paaralang Xavier" as its official Filipino/Tagalog translation, then that should not be a problem. --- Tito Pao 22:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:XS seals.jpg
Image:XS seals.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 07:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
