Talk:X-23

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WikiProject Comics
comics
Portal
This article is in the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! Help with current tasks, visit the notice board, edit the attached article or discuss it at the project talk page.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. Please explain the rating here.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the X-23 article.
Article policies

As far as I know, X-23's skeleton was not laced with adamantium (because her bones are presumably still growing). I "silently" made this edit recently, and would like the "Notable powers" portion of the entry to be accurate.--Galliaz 22:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Made this minor change to the entry: deleted "skeleton &" from the "Adamantium laced skeleton & claws" phrase.--Galliaz 16:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] X-23 in MC2?

If X-23 were to appear in the MC2 continuity,would she be Rina (Wild Thing) Logan's half sister?(Rina has a half brother,Sabreclaw) - R.G. 05:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Nope, she would be Rina's Pseudo-Aunt, being a clone of her daddy and all. WookMuff 22:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redeemer

Huh. I always thought she was based on the girl from Elektra and Wolverine: The Redeemer. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 02:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I edited your post, CyberSkull: it's Elektra and Wolverine; not Wolverine & Elektra. --Kozmik_Pariah

[edit] Claws Quote

  • We need to provide a citation to this direct quotation: does anyone know where it appeared?
  • The quote is too long and needs to be edited down.--Galliaz 15:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Claws

  • "However a promo art picture for Exiles issue 86, showing several Wolverines from other dimensions, presented also a few female Wolverines in the crowd who all sported triple claws at the hands, while one of the male ones had two on the hands."

That part in the Claws section doesn't make sense. If they are from other dimensions, they're going to be different, so it makes sense for a female to have three claws like Wolverine, and a male to have two claws like X-23.--Vynn

Do her foot claws retract into her calves, or into her feet? If the latter, I suspect that would interfere with her feet flexing properly when walking. If the former, she'd have to point her toes and feet to extend or retract her claws.

I was just thinking the same thing. Considering she's supposed to be a -clone- it's pretty odd that her claws would end up not-exactly-the-same as her genetic identical twin (minus a very small chromosome).. I think X-men Evolution was not very intelligently written (I remember a promo referring to Wolverine's claws as 'surgical steel') and so anything based on it is allowed to kinda not make sense.
I don't know how the claws from her foots retract, but I have an explanation why two are in her feets. The article said Rice extracted the claws, and re-inserted them. He could have moved a two of them, too.
An alternative idea would be that Wolverine has recessive genes for claws in his feet which are suppressed by his Y-chromosome, or that it's an X-linked mutation in this dimension.
Yeah, the gene for their claws is clearly sex-linked.--Galliaz 13:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Condense

Is there any hope of condensing the information on this page? Her comic biography is way too long. Kusonaga 13:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to attempt to condense the information in the Innocence Lost and Mercury Falling sections. --156.34.71.188 00:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Toxic Adamantium

If adamantium is truly indestructible, it would have to be chemically non-reactive, and therefore non-toxic. It also shouldn't leave "traces" of any kind. This is basic logic. Chaotic nipple 00:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You win a No-Prize! Morwen - Talk 15:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Wolverine has both true adamantium and adamantium beta in his body, both are referred to as adamantium, true adamantium could cause adamantium poisoning as a catalyst, and adamantium beta could cause adamantium poisoning as a catalyst and/or a reactant. If adamantium beta is the sole cause of adamantium poisoning, this would explain why characters without healing factor are unaffected by adamantium poisoning. -- Gordon Ecker 08:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Costume

I read on some ebay listing or something that X-23's first costume, or at least the one on the cover of UX451 was an old wolverine costume, but the only time i have previously seen that costume was on Lynx, a feral character who wolverine and nick fury met in Marvel Comics Presents 123-130. Anyone know anything more about that that can be added? WookMuff 22:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Self Harm

It says in the artice that her scars from her self harm don't seem to heal up, but so far we've seen nothing in the art that puts it down in solid. It could be that the 'X's we see on her arm following her cutting herself were simply in the process of being mended... it is more likely to be artistic license must be taken to give that aspect of her character some impact.

-Rexregum —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.186.8.11 (talk) 20:54, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree and have removed that part.Lipperman 03:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geech Link

This link doesnt go to a comic character named "Geech" Could somebody add an entry for him?

[edit] Character History

The end of the Comics section goes in to way too much detail for each issue (of the type: "and then the character leaves the school and gets some coffee with a friend"; as the charcter develops this will become much too unwieldy. Now is the time to condense this section to only the most pertinent details.

Also the tenses shift throughout the later paragraphs. Can we stick to one tense? Past tense?

[edit] X-Men Movie

Was that her fighting Wolverine (in whichever movie it was, I or II)? --Johnny (Cuervo) 20:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

X-23 does not appear in any of the three X-Men movies. The woman with the metallic claws is a mutant version of Lady Deathstrike. Dragei 22:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistencies

Earlier I added a small bit of information to the Inconsistencies section which was deleted as speculation. And that's true, it was somewhat speculative. However, so are various other comments such as: "(It's clear that these storytelling liberties were taken in order to establish X-23 as an addition to the New X-Men cast for new readers.)". That in itself is speculation unless it's ever been expressly stated in an interview.

In fact, my addition was far less speculative. It was based on existing scenes from certain issues, that establish Laura's seclusive nature. In Uncanny X-Men she spent the majority of her time stalking and watching Logan from a distance. Then in Marvel Team-Up we see her sitting alone watching him sleep through some security monitors. In addition to that her seclusive nature has also been shown in the fact that prior to being made a part of the New X-Men team, she went on most adventures alone.

But I digress... while noticing this it dawned on me that the entire section has become somewhat moot. It's dedicated to inconsistencies in continuity that no longer exist due to retconning. I move for deletion of that part of the article, as it now serves virtually no purpose. No other article would focus on prior inconsistencies such as these. You may argue that the section is historically significant to the source material, but ultimately, it's not. If we were to document every single retconned continuity issue in comics... well, there wouldn't be enough space on the internet for such a thing. --156.34.67.34 19:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree.--Galliaz 20:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

In accordance I removed the section. However, the Target X section will require updating in order to reflect the story developments/retconning that made removal of the Inconsistencies section possible. Oh, and on a different topic, someone should add information on X-23's appearances in the "X-Men: The End" books to the Alternate versions category. --156.34.67.34 22:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I added X-Men: The End, but I'm still doing work on it, so I'll continue to tweak it. And I'm also trying to track down an image of X-23 from said books. Also, my mistake on the quotations bit, I wasn't aware of that distinction. --156.34.67.34 11:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
No worries. I hope you don't mind that I went ahead and tweaked the X-M: The End info you added.--Galliaz 14:57, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I don't mind at all, in fact, you saved me the effort. I was going to trim it down a bit after I looked through some X-Men: The End issues, so thank you. In addition to that I wasn't sure if I should add the note which you removed to begin with, as it was relatively unimportant. Now, as it stands, I seem to remember something about X-23 being sent to track down Sage in the book(s), but as I mentioned before, I'm looking through some of the material to confirm. --156.34.67.34 12:05, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's that. I've updated the information for The End. Now only a handful of problems remain... The Target X section needs updating in a big way, it's a couple of issues behind. And the Mercury Falling section could use a trim, as we don't need a play by play of every scene, after all. --156.34.67.34 16:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Overly long

This article is way long for a character who's only been around for four years. It seems good, but maybe you could condense the plot section down a bit? :) Paul730 20:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Yup, don't worry, I'm working on how to do that at the moment. It's as simple as re-wording some areas, and cutting out others, but that's more work than you'd expect. It all comes down to deciding which bits of information are important, and which are just bloating the article. An example of the best this article has to offer is the "Uncanny X-Men" section, in which 4 stories-worth (IE 11 issues-worth) of content is condensed into 4 small paragraphs. --156.34.95.142 03:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, I've done a great deal of trimming, shifting, and minor edits as well. I'm still not entirely happy with the Mercury Falling section, but it's better. I more-or-less just edited out the fat, leaving only the bare bones. I didn't do a lot of re-wording to that section as I'm quite tired at the moment. The problem with that section is that because it's so X-23 centric, a great deal of it is important. Later on I'll be working on the Innocence Lost section, but again, like Mercury Falling, that's going to be tough due to a great deal of important information being included. --156.34.92.174 17:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Nice work!--Galliaz 18:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate that much of the information is important to the character, but the article still seems a little long. Compare it to someone like Wolverine's, who's been around much longer than X-23. The UXM section looks good, but the Innocence Lost part looks very long. While in-depth plot summaries may seem important to fans, they can be a little overwhelming and confusing to people unfamiliar with the character. Like you said, try to stick to the bare bones instead of getting swamped with details. Right now, I'm trying to condense the character histories of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer characters, and I understand how hard it is to shorten things down to a reasonable length. I feel your pain! ;) Paul730 00:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Ha, well, I'll begin work on the Innocence Lost section tomorrow/later today (as it's 1AM), and I also have some additional plans for the article that should reduce length and give the whole thing a better flow. --156.34.83.183 04:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Done, I overhauled the Innocence Lost section per what I said before. I may do more work on it later however. Now I'm going to make those additional changes I mentioned before. As I had to cut a substantial amount of useful information regarding her personality, relationships, training, etc, I'm going to add a new section.
The new section will be called "Attributes", and will replace the current Powers and abilities section. It will also have a number of subsections, "Powers and abilities", which will deal with her powers/abilities and training, "Personality", and finally, the new addition, "Relationships" which will go into limited detail about her evolving interaction with other characters. --156.34.73.190 16:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Annnnnnnnnnnnd done. I'm sure I'll continue to make little changes here and there, but as of now everything is looking good. The new section even allowed me to cut out additional useless bits from the biography. --156.34.73.190 18:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Well done. The article looks much better. Paul730 00:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, although admittedly, I didn't put as much effort into the Attributes section as I could have. It's pretty good, but I'm sure it could be better, I was multitasking when I slapped it together. Now all that really needs to be done is some updating to the Target X section, and I haven't yet decided if I'll do that or not. --156.34.80.96 03:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Fantastic work Galliaz, you've made some great changes that really help streamline the article. I did however re-add one bit of useful information, the fact that X-23 mysteriously leaves the X-Mansion off-panel between Uncanny and New X-Men. I believe it's just something that should be kept as it's not explained why she left in the actual source material, nor is it explained in the article. Which in turn adds a certain level of disconnect. I imagine as someone not familiar with the character they would see that X-23 "returns" post-Decimation, and wonder where exactly she's returning from. --156.34.87.107 00:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

This makes perfect sense. (And thanks!)--Galliaz 01:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, the article finally feels somewhat complete! It's definitely much more natural, it has a nice flow, and it reads well; giving you the whole picture yet only including the bare bones of the information. I did some additional editing, and yes, I think this is shaping up to be a fine article indeed. --156.34.86.50 13:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's much clearer. However, I'd like to point out that Kimura seems to come out of nowhere in the article. It's like, blah blah blah, X-23 is tracked down by Kimura, blah blah blah. What? Perhaps an earlier explanation about Kimura would be of benefit. If at all possible, perhaps instead of doing a publication separated history of X-23, we could combine the series that outline X-23's early life and then move on from there. This is because the two series that outline X-23's early history really overlap to such an extent (with flashbacks) that separating them really makes the beginning of the article really choppy. Yes, it's clear, but it read like a computer wrote these entries. This again comes back to the Kimura example. Yes, Kimura only appears in the X-23: Target X series for the first time, but she was there during the X-23: Innocence Lost and not to discuss that in X-23's origins and then to have Kimura magically appear in X-23: Target X (especially since the two series were written by the same people) gives causal readers a "what?" moment. So perhaps we can combine X-23's early history/origin story before her appearance in NYX so that it reads more easily and not so choppy. Remember, we're not Tarzan. [[RossF18 02:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)]]
I added phrasing to explain who Kimura is. It's been a while since I read Innocence Lost, but I actually don't remember Kimura appearing there. She may very well have been created in Target X. On your main point, Ross, I think the entry should delineate what occurred by each series/title: this helps the reader get the sense for when certain plot and character elements were added, and by what particular team of creators.--Galliaz 13:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, you're right and I do not mean to suggest that the entire article be merged into one narative. I was just suggesting that the Origins part of the X-23 story be created that includes both Innocence Lost and Target X. Both of these were created by the same writers (Craig Kyle and Chris Yost) who also created X-23 in the first place so having their stories which basically outline X-23's origins do make sense. As I also point out in my post, no Kimura was not in Innocence Lost but Craig Kyle and Chris Yost, again writers of both series, wrote her in as being there out of frame in Innocence Lost because in Target X we see Kimura in X-23's flashbacks to her time in the Facility -- the time outlined in Innocence Lost. Also, thank you for adding that Kimura language to Target X part but while it now better explains who Kimura is, Kimura still appears out of nowhere in Target X. Yes, you would also be right to point out that this actually the way Kimura is introduced by Kyle and Yost in Target X -- out of nowhere. But for clarity's sake, I still propose that merge just the first two stories (again, I never suggested merging the entire publication history part of the article). This would also help alleviate some length issues since while we're OK at this point, thinking of future story lines, it's better to start being brief now instead of deciding what to cut when X-23 goes on to participate in hundreds of story lines. (RossF18 20:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC))

Well, make it brief, since Kimura has an article of her own. Also, it's rather simple how we can do this without merging the Innocence Lost and Target X sections: simply start the Target X synopsis the way it's presented in the book. Meaning start it out with something along the lines of; "the story begins with X-23 telling Matt Murdock and Captain America about her past". And then present the rest as a flashback narrative, the way the source material does. "She then tells them how Kimura was involved in her training", etc.

It would be easier to do it that way, definitely. That way we don't confuse people as to what event takes place in what book, as Kimura was retroactively added to X's history in Target X. Oh, and P.S., I was tired so I only skimmed the above post, so if that idea was presented before, sorry. Heh. --156.34.83.102 04:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Random question, but is it pronounced "Ex Two Three" or "Ex Twenty Three". My friends and I always call her Ex Two Three, but I just watched her Evolution episode and they say Twenty Three. Mind you, I also say "Nahmor" instead of "Naymor" and "Shier" instead of "Shee Ar", and they're both wrong. Oh well... Paul730 03:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It's Ex Twenty-Three. And while this isn't really the place, I believe both Naymor, and Nahmor are acceptable, I personally use a combination of the two: "Nahymor". Almost a silent nay, but not quite. --156.34.83.102 04:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] X-23 images...

What on earth? Why is it that both of the main X-23 images used in this article were deleted? Both the Skottie Young one, and the one we used prior to that of her in her original New X-Men costume. I had no idea either of those images was on the chopping block, but regardless, we need to get the Skottie Young one back. Chances are it was only deleted because someone didn't give the proper information required by Wikipedia when they uploaded it. --156.34.84.5 23:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Galliaz, we need a different picture than what's up currently, it's not in the least an accurate representation of the character. Not only is that not X-23's usual uniform, or even a variation thereof, but it's also an image of her as a little girl. --156.34.64.55 06:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I think, given the circumstances, that this image is acceptable. The image is the cover to the first issue of the character's most recent mini-series, and is therefore an acceptable fair use image, (avoiding the problem encountered with the Scottie Young image that was deleted). Regarding her age, her depiction in the image makes her look like a teenage girl, which is the character's present age in the Marvel universe.--Galliaz 13:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to disagree with you on this one, if only because in that image she'd pictured as being 11 or 12. Whereas now she's 17. And if my suspicions are correct, those two images I mentioned above were only deleted because someone didn't give a proper fair-use rationale. --156.34.73.185 03:32, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

It's standard practice to use a cover image from the character's most recent series as a main entry image. And though I disagree about how old she looks, I think it's a waste of time to argue about how young/old a character has been drawn to look on a comic book cover.--Galliaz 03:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

True, true. However, while it may be standard practice to use a recent cover, it's also standard practice to use a more recent portrayal. In that regard it's not about how old she looks, it's about how old she is on that cover. Take the Bucky Barnes article for example, the main image used isn't of him as a child. It's of him as the Winter Soldier, while the young Bucky is seen lower on the article. That would be like, for example, using a picture of a young James Howlett from the ORIGIN limited series (which details his past) for the main image on the Wolverine article.

I'm arguing against this image for many reasons: it's not her standard uniform, it's an image of her as a child, it's not even of her present look, and because of all of those, it's not high-profile enough a look for the character to keep as the article's main image. --156.34.73.185 05:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)