Talk:Wyoming (schooner)

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[edit] France Part Deux

Doing a bit of checking, I guess there was a seven masted schooner that was bigger with a metal hull that was built in New England. However the biggest wooden schooner ever I think was the "France II" built in 1911. The "France II" was 150 meters long, or an incredible 492.13 feet. There is no English article but there is a French Wikipedia article at France II. I find this sort of amazing if it is true.--Filll 21:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if it floated for very long? Orangemarlin 23:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

It eventually went aground in the south Pacific and was used for bombing practice by the US Air Force in World War II, and destroyed in 1944.--Filll 00:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Claimed "worlds longest wooden ship"

  • Danish Fregatten Jylland 71 meters, 233 feet
  • French "France II" 150 meters, 492 feet (wooden decks, the rest was steel apparently)
  • Kuwaiti "Al-Hashemi-II" 83.7 meters, 274.6 feet (will be used only as a museum and will never put to sea)
From CNN :Construction work began in 1985. But a lot of research was needed. No one has built such a ship with gigantic dimensions before; no designs were available. He was treading on unknown ground, comparing himself with Noah when he began building his Ark. But was the Ark that big? He was not alone.[1]
  • Swedish "Gotheborg" 61 meters long
  • Chinese Zheng He treasure ship replica 71.1 meters long (under construction)
  • As planter for flowers in flower garden, Chinese Expo 99 site
  • SV Tenacious 65 meters
  • Baron of Renfrew disposable ship
  • Rochambeau formerly the USS Dunderberg, built in New York (1865-72). 115 m 377 ft 4 in
  • Great Republic built in 1853 334 feet or sometimes 325 feet is claimed.[1]
  • HMS Orlando and HMS Mersey, about 340 feet[2] (plated with 4 inch armor)[3] From BBC:Although only 335 feet long, they suffered from the strain of their length, proving too weak to face a ship of the line in close quarters.
  • Appomattox 319 feet
Didn't know you were a boat kind of guy. Anyways, the Wyoming may not be the best example, but I think the point of the boat is that it huge, and despite having technologies unavailable to Noah, the boat could bare keep afloat. How can an Ark built of gopher wood do better? Orangemarlin 23:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

What is interesting about all these examples is that they ALL had problems with seaworthiness problems when read the references and their histories. And all were braced with iron (except maybe the Chinese treasure ships, but those might have been mythical). Here is a great site that explains how Noah did it:[2] --Filll 23:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you (or someone) check out all these claims: my belief is that the ships which appear to have been longer than the Wyoming were either not wooden-hulled (e'g' the France II), or never put to sea (e.g. the replica of the Zheng He treasure ship - the sources for the length of the originaL Zheng He ship are very dubious). I'm editing the Noah's Ark article to say that the Wyoming was the largest documented all-wooden ship ever, but I want to be sure that's true. PiCo 05:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I have looked at a bunch and I am going to write a separate article with sources. All the wooden boats over 300 feet had severe structural problems, apparently. And many that have wood components have iron plate hulls, or steel hulls, or iron braces, etc. A pure wood ship that is over 300 feet long with no problems does not appear possible. And you are right; no one has ever proved the length of the Chinese treasure ships. --Filll 06:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

  1. ^ http://web.mit.edu/museum/exhibitions/clippership2.html
  2. ^ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sultan/archeology2.html
  3. ^ http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A538030

[edit] Start of a fork article

Can be see at Talk:Wyoming (Schooner)/largestships--Filll 06:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I knew you were going to do this. This will be tons more fun than the Evolution stuff. However, it will be nice to reference the article from Noah's Ark since one of the Fundie claims is that there were wooden boats the size of the Ark, especially the Chinese one. This will help dispel that myth. Orangemarlin 07:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

It makes it a bit tougher to argue in the face of a bunch of articles with references. They basically have to shut up.--Filll 07:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP MOS

One actually needs a LEAD with with no section heading I think--Filll 01:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious

http://home.houston.rr.com/bybayouu/Noahs_ark.html is a dead link,, appears to be a self-published source. See WP:RS, WP:NOR, etc. Moon Daddy (talk) 20:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The link works. IrishGuy talk 20:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
http://home.houston.rr.com/bybayouu/Noahs_ark.html appears to be a self-published source. See WP:RS, WP:NOR, etc. It self identifies as "by gallo BY BAYOU UNIVERSITY Your Diploma Mill on the Web" Moon Daddy (talk) 20:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Should a self published source be used in this context?

The source at http://home.houston.rr.com/bybayouu/Noahs_ark.html appears to be self published. It self identifies as "BY BAYOU UNIVERSITY Your Diploma Mill on the Web." This source is being used to advance a point that Noah's Ark could not have been engineered well, contrary to Wikipedia:SYNTH#Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position, WP:RS, and WP:UNDUE. 20:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The whole section has been removed as a comparison to the theoretical floatation of Noah's Ark is completely irrelevant. IrishGuy talk 21:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks, I agree. Moon Daddy (talk) 21:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)