Talk:World war

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[edit] Easy definition of World War

When the major powers in that insant resort to Total War policies. It's that simple. This "cold war" and and "terrorism" guff is nothing but bunk.

-G

[edit] ----

Just checked, Turkey did declare war on Germany in February of 1945 so the image is technically correct in listing in light green for 'those in light green entered after the Attack on Pearl Harbor' however is a bit misleading in that Turkey was neutral for almost the entire war.

The map of the participants involved in World War 2 shows Turkey as involved after Pearl Harbor but didn't Turkey stay neutral throughout the WW2???

A great many countries joined the Allies when it became obvious which side would win. --Carnildo 07:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Those who say WW2 began in 1937 or earlier need to pick up a few WW2 books. 99.9999% of them will state the war began on the 3rd of September 1939 so what's with all this revisionist history?

This is because this is the start of the Second Sino-Japanese War, which basically was WWII in East Asia anyways.

Cameron Nedland 02:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

World War - A war involving many important nations - Oxford English Dictionary Online

A world war never meant a majority of the world's nations, a war fought over the world, etc. It was always a war with the major nations involve. A war between the USA, GB, China, Russia and India fought on a tennis court would still be a world war. A war between Poland, New Zealand, Argentina and Singapore fought all over the world would not be a world war. This wikipedia article is wrong.

Tennis court, lol.

-G

Why did you revert to the last edit?

Because it's your own personal interpretation. RickK 05:35, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

What's my personal interpretation? There is an article on World War IV. I just want it to be easier to find.

OK, it's somebody else's personal interpretation. Well, I'll revert it, but it needs some changes. RickK 05:44, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

"Since the conclusion of World War II, known as "the war to end all wars", the world has generally been united by a common desire never again to have another world war. "

Uh.... huh. And which world is this? --cuiusquemodi 20:56, May 18, 2004 (UTC)

The Cold War and War on Terrorism are not considered World Wars? By whom?? This section needs deleting, many commentators call the CW WW3 and the WoT WW4 (or WW3 if they dont count the CW). They have a far better claim to world war then the "League of Aubsburg" - CJWilly

Have you read the definition of "World War" used in this article? I'd hardly call a war with casualties in the low thousands a "World War". --Carnildo 10:43, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Cold War was global, and had deaths in the millions. Two of the nations involved didn't directly fire at each other- so? It's certainly better qualified than some of the other wars listed. The War on Terror isn't "A World War" or "Not a World War." It hasn't concluded, and can't be defined yet. Alakhriveion 22:17, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What happened to my article on Global Wars... I didn't say anything about merging the topics...

The article on "Global Wars" and the article on "World Wars" covered the same ground, so I merged the two. "World War" became the introduction of the combined article, while "Global War" became the body. I felt "World War" was the better article title, so I put the article under that title, and made "Global War" a redirect. --Carnildo 21:21, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] WW3/WW4 .. cold war?! war on terrorism?!!?

guess u got know clue what u are talkin. the cold war was a war of knowledge and upgrade between russia and usa. even thinkin bout describin it as a World War infamizes millions of human beings, who died in the 2 World Wars. and who - except some patriotic american clowns - describe the war on terror as a world war - not even finished? it aint no premier if some warlords follow their own targets .. might it coz of religious, racist or inhuman reasons. so the specs and claims should be placed in a special chapter, no juggling with words to profile themselve without knowin anything bout the issue. big up myself for instructin u clowns

Is this supposed to be serious?

I'll skip the badly written post above, and propose we should at least discuss the old war as being a world war or not. There was certainly worldwide conflict and casualties. Vietnam certainly had to do with it, for example. (Maybe we can call it a cold World War?) - Redmess 14:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What this article should be

The way I see it is that this article should be, at least when listing the wars, a summary and overview for each conflict. I've created Participants in World War I and Participants in World War II which contain the info I've just taken out of this article - I don't see the need to have the entire participant list here. I've also reordered the wars to most-recent first. violet/riga (t) 23:09, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think this article should primarily discuss the elements that constitute a world war, wich wars have been declared world wars, wich wars could have been declared so but were not, and wih wars are nominated for the title world war. - Redmess 14:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Wars not considered World Wars"

This section isn't neutral or informative. It states opinions about the Cold War (That it wasn't a World War) as fact, and groundlessly judges the War on Terrorism- it can't be called a World War or not a World War until it's over. Unless someone can see in to the future, I think that's pretty slanted. Alakhriveion 18:24, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've replaced the text. I see what you're saying but think that rewording it would be better - links to those two wars would naturally fit into this page. I'll let you reword as you see fit or, if you don't in the near future, will give it a go myself. Cheers, violet/riga (t) 19:15, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Quite the contrary Alakhriveion, the "War on Terrorism" and the "Cold War" can easily be seen to be non-wars. Not only are they not world wars, they are not even regular wars. The War on Terrorism has no well-defined beginning and I would be interested to see what you would consider "the end" of this supposed war. While a third world war may be the end result of what we Americans are currently calling the "War on Terror", no actual war has yet taken place. That human interest in war-making has led to these collections of events being termed wars has no bearing on their actual status as non-wars. Dwee 25 Feb 2005

This is one opinion. It's disputed. As for the War on Terror, the Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are clearly wars. Whether or not these combat terrorism is an issue, but whether or not they're part of the war currently being refered to as the 'War on Terror' cannot be. It's beginning date could be disputed, but World War Two's could be as well.-Alakhriveion

[edit] history

I'm interested in the history of the term. When was "world war" first applied to either WWI or WWII? I think it was in the 50s, but I need some reference... dab (ᛏ) 12:04, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No much earlier. According to this page, the term "world war" was first used in 1909. The term "World War II" was first used in 1919 so the term First World War must have already been in occasional use for the Great War. The wars were called the First and Second World Wars already in 1938 in Time magazine. Rmhermen 16:18, Feb 24, 2005 (UTC)
thanks! see also the following replies and follow-up question that turned up on WP:RD dab (ᛏ) 18:43, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)


If you have access to a good dictionary - I'll have a glance at our multi-volume OED in the reference department tomorrow if I remember - try looking them up and seeing if there's a citation; I think "World War Two" was in use as early as the 1940s, possibly even during the war, but I don't know when it became the "proper name". Shimgray 16:51, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Being a little more helpful... "the world war" is used in The World War and What was Behind It (1918); it's uncapitalised, but the meaning is clear and it's definitely used as a specific term.
In January '43, FDR commented "In the years between the end of the first World War and the beginning of the second World War..." [1]; again, the meaning is fairly explicit.
The terms were still ambiguous by the early 1950s, though; my 1952 Revised Edition of Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable feels the need to note that ...in all references to the two Great Wars of this century, World War I indicates that of 1914-18, World War II that of 1939-45. (it's interesting they say -18 not -19, but I digress) Shimgray 17:31, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Why is it "interesting they say -18, not -19"? Last time I checked, World War I was generally agreed to last until 1918. Please enlighten me. Nightstallion 19:19, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Aha, but here's the rub - fighting lasted from 1914 to 1918, but the Treaty of Versailles was only signed in 1919. As such, the war was often referred to as lasting until 1919 at the time, even though there was no fighting that year; you often see war memorials referring to the "1914-1919 War", contemporary medals were often marked "1914-1919", and the like. This fell out of use over the years, and now 1918 is far more common. If you look at Google, for example, "1914-18" gets about ten times as many hits as "1914-19". (partly due to the emphasis in many countries on the Armstice celebrations, but I suspect it also had a lot to do with the growing emphasis on "social history" rather than "diplomatic history", and the reduced role of people Learning Dates Of Treaties. I haven't ever studied that, though...)
I wasn't sure when the general transition of "the correct dates" shifted, but for some reason I'd expected it to be later than 1950. Another one for research... Shimgray 20:31, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If it's any help, I am currently working with a huge collection of Archives at the New York State Archives on World War I, specifically newspapers, local histories, letters, photos, etc... of New Yorkers involved in World War I. I've found that the term "World War" was firmly in place by 1917 when the US entered the war. Many of the welcome back parties, thrown in 1919 for returning troops thank "our boys who participated in the World War" (Capitalized). Another point. 1919 was viewed by many as the end of the war in the 1920s not because of the treaty as much as that was when the Allies finally started to see their sons and husbands and fathers and brothers come home (so it's actually the social and diplomatic history that matter). Remember, there was an occupying army in Germany until the treaty was signed. Many of the service cards and service abstracts will include "Member of German Occupation Army" in the list of battles or actions participated in by the person who the card or abstract describes.Billy P 15:20, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Seven Years War

was the first ever war that wasnt started in europe

good job to whoever wrote that--JinFX HuangDi 1698 02:51, 2005 March 8 (UTC)

That is absolute bullshit. Cameron Nedland 02:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Seems unlikely to me, there were people living all over the world long before the Seven Years War. And surely there were civilizations otside Europe before that date. And surely there would have been wars between tribes ever since they started picking up rocks and throwing them at each other. - Redmess 14:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where is the article going?

I have just pilfered the introductions from the WWI and WWII pages for brif introductions to these two wars. I guess they are a bit long for this page but can be shortened later... Anyway, some things I think this page needs:

  1. Reference (page number, volume) of the Churchill quote, and I guess that the fact this is in his history of the English speaking peoples should be in the 7 years war section not the intro (but the quote itself could stay in the intro).
  2. Other historians views of what counts as a World War? With refs.
  3. Contrast with Total war - some world wars are total wars but the two are not the same thing.
  4. The Cold War / War on Terror info may be better in the Classification as a world war section.

What do you think? Andreww 01:38, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What about the Crimean war?

That conflict involved Russia, Great Britan, France, The Ottoman, Sardina and even the CSA.

That conflict within itself takes up about over 80% of the world.

  • But as "The majority of the conflict took place on the Crimean peninsula in the Black Sea." (according to the Crimean war article) so it fails the "Happened on more than one continent" test. Andreww 5 July 2005 08:03 (UTC)

How could the CSA have been involved in the Crimean War, it wasn't around yet!? Cameron Nedland 02:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Confederate army in Crimea-- more insight--Mole Man 09:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Dude, the Crimean War was in the 1850's and the CSA wasn't around until 1860. Cameron Nedland 01:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Even more candidates for World War?

I'm suggesting more candidates for consideration as World Wars simply to make it clear that if a World War can happen on one continent (As World War I did in fact) and only require participation from nation-states on other continents, but not an actual theatre of fighting, then other wars that included three continents and high civilian and military casualties but did not take place in Europe and/or with modern war equipment should definately be considered. I'm always a bit pained by the Euro-Centrism or West-Centrism in Wikipedia. Here's some suggestions:

All of these in fact do involve European powers in some way anyway, because I, being a Westerner, have been completely denied any real education about any conflicts that don't somehow involve a white person. I'm guessing there are Chinese, Japanese, Arab, Indian, and African wars that I don't even know about that might also qualify as World Wars.
Billy P 15:59, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I'll bite. World War I was of global extent, according to the article: "Some of the very first actions of the war occurred far from Europe, including Africa and the Pacific Ocean." In any case I would argue that for inclusion in our list we just need to find some reputable source who calls it a "World War" because otherwise we are interpreting history and thus approaching original research. -- Andreww 09:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] World War V?

Theres should be a article/information on World War V since theres one on World War IV.

World War IV is occasionally used as a term, World War V has never been used. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 00:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
The only World War IV I'm aware of is the hypothetical one that will be fought with stones and clubs. I've never heard of a World War V. --Carnildo 04:48, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

If The Cold War was a World War, it can be World War Three, so the next one (or current one if you're of that thinking) is World War IV. Since this is all up in the air having articles all the way up to five is unneeded. Alakhriveion 04:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Victims of holocaust

It should be cited the the num,ber of holcaust victims includes the sint and Roma. As the term generally refers to jewish victins only.

[edit] Incorrect battefield area

The area conversion between imperial and metric is wrong in the "Both World Wars in comparison" table; the conversion factor between sq. miles and km² is ~2.59 (area), not ~1.6093 (distance). Which value is the correct one? Sarke 15:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Spanish-American War

The Spanish-American War would technicaly be WW because it was fought on two continents. Cameron Nedland 01:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Err, really? The article says that it was fought between the US with the aid of Cuban rebel forces and Spain. WWs contain many more countries, as the map on the article shows. As you can see, both WWs contain countries from every continent, unlike the Spanish-American War map would.

Personally, I can't see why people keep trying to add lesser wars to the page. World War One and World War Two are the only true world wars, and the cold war and the war on terror are not WW3 and WW4.

User:The Halo (talk) 16:2 , 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The reason people are trying to add lesser wars is because the page is a merge from two pages: World War and Global War. WW1 and WW2 are arguably not the only global wars, so others should be considered.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.42.48.243 (talk) 04:37, 9 May 2006
Maybe thats an argument to, ehr, unmerge the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Redmess (talk • contribs) 14:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] I thought Italy fought Austria?

Then how can it be allied with Austria or Germany?

-G

By the end of '43, they surrendered and de facto switched sides.

[edit] Does anyone knows : During the World War 2, what had happened to Singapore?

I need to look for information. The information I'm looking for is in the Headline. I need it urgently. Thank you.

We are not going to do your homework/research/whatever for you. Try a history book on Singapore. Surely that will mention what happened. - Redmess 14:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Germany invading its neighbors

From the text of the article under "Characteristics of the World Wars":

The proximate cause of the European aspect of the two wars was very similar—Germany invading its neighbours....

I don't like the wording of this statement. Quite frankly, it doesn't make sense because they did not at all begin World War I any more than Britain started World War II. If you can say Germany invaded its neighbors in World War I, you can say Britain invaded its neighbors in World War II, because Germany was just fighting a war that Austria, Serbia, and Russia had already started. The main thing here, to my knowledge, is that Germany's was the shoulders that the war was rested on because there's no way Austria was going to be able to handle what it (or Serbia or Russia) started. D. F. Schmidt 02:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1914 - 1945 oversimplification?

The case can be made that the two world wars in the 20th century are a single conflict since you cannot tell the story or WWII without at least a very brief discussion about WWI. Whether or not WWII "may not have started were it not for the rise of Hitler" the fact remains that it DID happen. woulda, shoulda, coulda may have stopped any of the other wars as well. That "oversimplification" statement should at least have the other side of the argument or just be removed. 160.230.249.144 18:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC) Juan

[edit] Vandalism

Somebody's put LANDON IS GAY!!!! at the beginning of the article, but I can't seem to remove it. Could somebody get that? 129.237.90.54 09:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


Ok, what joker wants a citation for "Since the Second World War was ended in August 1945 by the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki". Pretty funny! 129.174.176.3 06:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The bombings took place at that time. However, how do we know that those bombings constituted the end of the war? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 15:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
It didn't. The war ended when China signed an Armistice with Japan, the day after the UK and US did. Ofcourse, when WWII began is a bigger question, since the seemingly racist answer is when Germany invaded Poland. Or whether Finland's Winter War is part of WWII ... Or if the European War and Pacific War are two separate wars that is wrongly conflated as WWII... 74.15.105.205 (talk) 06:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "War of Neoliberalism against humanity" is spam

I deleted the paragraph about the "war of neoliberalism against humanity"...if no one has ever heard of this "war," then it doesn't deserve to be in a Wikipedia article. It appeared to be absurd spam that diluted the seriousness and relevance of the article as a whole. Thus I deleted it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.186.184 (talk) 08:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there are many people who view the present conflict in Iraq as part of a larger conflict- defined as narrowly as the "War on Terror," and most broadly as including the Cold War, every conflict in which the United Nations has ever engaged, both of the commonly accepted World Wars, and really the entire process of globalization as well- which constitutes the (effort towards the) absorption of the entire human race in to the neoliberal system of representative republican federalism, wherein human rights and individual liberties are guaranteed by the total monopolization of violence by liberal-democratic nation-states, whose legitimacy is drawn from the use of a political system where localities elect representatives to the national government, who in turn appoint representatives to a worldwide federal government (The United Nations), whose power is checked by its reliance upon the individual member states to enforce its resolutions. Such a case is made in one of the External Links listed for this article, http://www.ubishops.ca/baudrillardstudies/spiegel.htm, which is I imagine the origin of the "war against humanity" line itself, where Jean Baudrillard says in an interview with Der Spiegel: "Is it not a paradox that the West uses as a weapon against dissenters the following motto: Either you share our values or…? A democracy asserted with threats and blackmail only sabotages itself. It no longer represents the autonomous decision for freedom, but rather becomes a global imperative... There is no longer a front, no demarcation line, the enemy sits in the heart of the culture that fights it. That is, if you like, the fourth world war: no longer between peoples, states, systems and ideologies, but, rather, of the human species against itself." Another well-known one is made in Hardt & Nagri's Multitude, where they argue that "War... is becoming the primary organizing principle of society" [p.12]. I could keep listing these, but my point is that while such a declarative judgment doesn't really have a place here, a section on these analyses of global conflict is, I think, necessary. Certified: the above written by S. Martin at 08:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WW4

Shouldn't mention of WWIV being in the famous quote (to paraphrase...) I don't know what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones (or something to that effect) be mentioned in the WW4 section? 74.15.105.205 (talk) 05:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)