Talk:World War I in Timeline-191

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Contents 1 Map 2 Title 3 Casualties 4 Peace Treaty section

[edit] Map

Why isn't Portugal colored as an Entente nation, but their colonies are?--Menah the Great 17:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know; there's no direct evidence in the series to Portugal but it would be logical that they would side with Great Britian in Timeline 191 just like the original timeline. Most definately their colonies would have the same position as Protugal itself. Jon 20:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

In addition, there are multiple errors of countries marked on the map as Entente that are netural in timeline 191. Most particularly Italy, and it's colonies. There is a direct revelence in the Great War series that the Germans won the Battle of Vurdun, France in six weeks and Italy stayed netural. (Conferedate POV char in a US camp.) Towards the end of the war Italy is even called a backsliding member of the Central Power Alliance by one of the chars when they recongize Quebec. In addition, unless the map author is claiming Japan is in control of all of China by the end of the Great War, all of China should not be marked as an Entene power; but only instead the portion that Japan had control over. The rest of China should be netural. (A few specific coastal cities occuied by European powers in original timeline could be assumed to be under such control in timeline 191, most significantly Hong Kong, but those are too small to show up well on a global map.) Jon 20:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The new map is much improved, my only question under TL 191 is had the Japense occuplied all of China by the time the Great War started? I would have thought it likely that outer less ,populated sections of China like Tibet and the desert northwest may have become at least de-facto indepedent during early stages of a Japanese-Chinese war. Both regions look like it would be much more difficult to conquer than coastal China. Jon 16:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

In Our Timeline, Korea and Manchuria had either become part of the empire of Japan or else pupet states before WWI (First Chinese-Japense war). I think it's pretty safe to assume that happened in TL 191 as well. So those portions need split out of China. I haven't seen anything refering to the rest of China being involved in TL 191s war, so I'm curious about why the rest of it is colored as being on the UK and/or Japanese side as well. Jon 17:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to on the map on Brazil place the year they joined; it's a very significant plot point that they declared themselves on the winning side very late in the war. Jon 17:27, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Shouldn't the page being called The Great War in Timeline-191 instead? All the chars in this series from that point forward are calling it that and so far none of the charachters have called this World War I. Jon 20:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Casualties

This article section was reading

"As in our First World War casualties were massive. U.S. dead amounted to one point five million, far higher than in reality but much lower than any European combatant during the real World War. German dead can be assumed to be somewhat lower as they were fighting Britain, France and Russia without American reinforcements. France's casualties were probably about the same as in reality. Britain probably took significantly higher casualties due to fighting in the Pacific and Canada that did not occur in actuality. Confederate casualties are not mentioned but assumed to be greater, porportionatily at least, than the North's. This may be due to the North's greater fire power and the fact the South had to resort to drafting Blacks."

First I think the references to "in reality" should be changed to "original timeline". I'd like to know in which book and roughly which section it specifly mentions US 5 Million dead. I think I agree with the German casulaties being lower than OTL. French casualties can probably be infered to be somewhat higher than OTL though without Germany needing to send troops to prop up Austria Hungry against Italy. Britian though is much less unclear, while in TL 191 they are heavily involved in proping up Canada it doesn't appear as if they were as involved in "liberating" the arab provinces from the Ottoman Empire nor enaged in the fiasco Greek Campaign. I think this has only relocated the section in the world in which the British had major casualties and not really changed the overall number much. As for CS casulaties, the absolute number would be less than the US, but agreed it would be proporationly higher. This would be especally so if only the white male populations were compared. Jon 18:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peace Treaty section

I'm not doubting what's listed, but I think references would be helpful. Particularly because it took until the last book in the series for Turtledove to confirm that in TL 191's Great War, Russia did lose the Baltics and other territories that they lost in ours.

We do though seem to be missing infomation with regards to the Ottoman Empire. From the Armenican Genocide references we know that the Ottoman Empire troops were occupling the area we know as Armenia. (If not annexed outright). It's also noteworthy than in our timeline, the Ottoman Empire did capture that area from Russia towards the end of WWI and only had that conquest rolled back by the peace treaties ending WWI.

The other thing relating to the Ottoman Empire end of WWI is the status of Egypt which I have been totally unable to find references in the series to what happened. Pre WWI, Egypt was technicaly a part of the Ottoman Empire but administered by the UK. When the Ottoman Empire joined the war on the side of Germany, shortly thereafter the UK declared it a protectate of the UK. Jon (talk) 18:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)