Talk:World Vision

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[edit] Historical background

This article's historical background seems a bit too good to be true. I already revised it to make it seem a little more encyclopedic in style, but I'm still not sure about the factual accuracy. World Vision's official site says on their about us page [[1]] "Dr. Bob Pierce began World Vision to help children orphaned in the Korean War. To provide long-term, ongoing care for children in crisis, World Vision developed its first child sponsorship program in Korea in 1953." However, the article as it stands first says that WV was founded in 1950 in the U.S. and then in the history section that it was started by Dr. Bob Pierce in China. Also would it be bad etiquette to remove the irrelevant material below this on the talk page? Edonovan 04:29, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Clarified the organizational beginnings, and removed non-historical material from the section. Tomh009 01:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments about the value of the World Vision mission and organization

I've removed all comments on THIS PAGE (Talk) about how cool World Vision is, how important their mission is, etc. The purpose of a talk page is to discuss what should and should not be in the article, when someone has a question, or something is controversial. Wikipedia talk pages are NOT intended to be message boards. John Broughton 17:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Conspiracy theories

While it is reasonably neutral to report that there are conspiracy theorists who think that World Vision is a CIA front, the statement "These claims whilst outrageous, do make logical sense..." is an opinion and also not NPOV. Thatcher131 02:58, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

While attemping to present a balanced article we must still be careful to present an accurate perspective. reasonably/neutrally reporting that consipiracy theories exist may ultimately distort the perspective. for example, some may believe that the United States of America has been infiltrated by Aliens. however in the article on the United States, this information would be considered unverifiable, and would not be considered relevant by a reasonable person. Clearthinker00 20:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

The official name of the organization is World Vision International so the main article should be at that page with a redirect from World Vision Thatcher131 02:53, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

  • The problem is that World Vision International is the proper name of the organization, but there was already a stub there. If I cut and paste this whole page into that one for the sake of using the right name, I would be trashing the talk and history pages. So I redirected World Vision International to this page. Thatcher131 02:48, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scandal in World Vision Austria

At the personal page of Karl_Habsburg-Lothringen some notes about the World vision scandal in Austria are mentioned. Could somebody please add additional information about it?

I also followed the link to learn more about the Austria scandal, but found nothing. Leaving out a scandal that resulted in jail time for the country director smacks of POV.--Counsel 20:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Without a verifiable reference we cannot overcome ambiguity: is the World Vision referenced in this article even the same as the international relief/development organization? where did the author get this information? Clearthinker00 19:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is, I noted multiple articles in the Austrian press about it at that time, I will search at the Austian news papers web pages, so I might find an article or two ... --Dabese 18:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
the German Article has plenty information + credible sources on this.

[edit] Details

"Quick&Dirty" translation: World Vision has been active in Austria since 1976. The first Group to do so, World Vision Österreich - Christliches Hilfswerk, was closed down by World Vision International after massive criminal activities of its Austrian CEO. A second organisation called World Vision - Gesellschaft für Entwicklungshilfe und Völkerverständigung was founded after this in 1998 and has been working there ever since.

  • World Vision Österreich - Christliches Hilfswerk (until 1998)

The first structure „World Vision Österreich – Christliches Hilfswerk“ was shut down in November 1998, after internal checks of World Vision International had found irregularities in its bookkeeping and the documentation of its child sponsorship-programm.(Source: Austrian Development Agency: World Vision Österreich: Kofinanzierte Projekte in Afrika. Archive 04/1999.(German))

The media response to the scandal was quite high in Austria since the grandson of Austria's last emporer was involved. Karl von Habsburg who was also a Menber of the European Parliament at that time was a Member of "World Vision Österreich"'s board. Two investigations ("peer reviews") by World Vision proofed irregularities. An investigastion by the Austrian police showed lateron an massive embezzlement of funds by its CEO Martina Krones-Taurer. While the investigations still were ongoing the Groups rights to use the name of WV were revoked and a new structure founded. ( resume in the magazine "Datum" (German)). Investigations by KPMG auditor proofed financial transactions to the International Paneuropean Union using funds for the EU-election campaign 1996. (hagalil.com: „Unkorrekte Geldflüsse“ - Nach Prüfbericht steigt Druck auf Habsburg) (German). Martina Taurer-Krones (Die Presse: Betrugsprozess: Krones-Taurer erneut angeklagt. 26.01.2007) and her husband went to trial and were accused among other charges to have embezzled 1,1 Millionen Euro in funds for privat purposes like vacations and sportscars. Following long investigations the trial started in November 2003. She was sentenced to 3 years prison in September 2004 (no probation), her husband as a complice to 2 years (probation granted).

"World Vision - Gesellschaft für Entwicklungshilfe und Völkerverständigung" started its activities in 1998. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nemissimo II (talk • contribs) 09:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC). --Nemissimo II 10:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use of 2005 figures

I think it is wrong to use $1Bn the 2005 figure for two reasons: (1) the auditted accounts aren't signed off (2) there is a lot of exception tsunami income which inflates things compared to a typcial year. Anyone agree? --BozMo[[user_talk:BozMo|talk]] 14:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

According to World Vision financial statements, $1bn is far below the 2005 partnership-wide financial figures. Also, the 2005 figures were audited by PriceWaterhouse Coopers. According to the most current financial statements, since 2005 World Vision's non-disaster income has also risen so that $1bn is still a low and innacurate figure. Clearthinker00 19:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Could you give me a reference for that? Also "partnership-wide" including 100% of income with goes through partnerships or just its proportionate share? --BozMo talk 19:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Vision engages in coercion

The following statements were removed for verification: "Yet, World Vision is not respectful of other faiths. It engages in proselytism and religious coercion."

These statements could be quite harmful to the reputation of the World Vision and hinder the efforts of this and other charitable organizations. They should only be reinserted into the article if accompanied with a verifiable and reputable source.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) .

Well proselytism is given. Its a missionairy org. Coercion up for discussion.Bakaman Bakatalk 13:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

According to World Vision, their organization does not proselytize, nor does it coerce. Additionally, World Vision does not claim to be a missionary organization. Identifying them as such seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the history and mission of the organization, or perhaps a simple misunderstanding of what constitutes a missionary organization. The speculative reference to proselytism and coercion should be removed from the article unless verifiable references are provided.

According to the Dictionary.com definition of Proselytize: To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith. To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine. To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.

According to the World Vision Partnership Mission Statement: ""World Vision is an international partnership of Christians whose mission is to follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in working with the poor and oppressed to promote human transformation, seek justice and bear witness to the good news of the kingdom of God.

World Vision pursues its mission through integrated, holistic commitment to: Transformational development that is community-based and sustainable, focused especially on the needs of children; Emergency relief that assists people afflicted by conflict or disaster; Promotion of justice that seeks to change unjust structures affecting the poor among whom we work; Partnerships with churches to contribute to spiritual and social transformation; Public awareness that leads to informed understanding, giving, involvement and prayer; Witness to Jesus Christ by life, deed, word and sign that encourages people to respond to the Gospel.""

There is no alignment between World Vision's mission statement (i.e. practices), and the definition of proselytizing.

Clearthinker00 19:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I love the (i.e. practices) after the mission statement. No organisation or organization on earth of this scale can really identify these too so accurately --BozMo talk 19:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality badly needed

  • While of course outright, unverified statements of criticism have no place in this article, it should also not read like a World Vision brochure. External links and article links should include at least a few that are critical of W.V., if any exist. Sentences like "Each national office enjoys an equal voice in the organization's governance, erasing traditional distinctions between the developed and developing world" are blatant promotions of this organization. Please remember this is an encyclopedia, not a free advertising space.

Escheffel 20:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Much of the article must rely on information provided by World Vision, as it is the most qualified party to describe the body of work of the organization. Criticism of that provided information must be done through verifiable references, or not done at all.

Clearthinker00 19:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Forgive the comparison, but that's like saying an al-Qaeda website is the best source of information on al-Qaeda. Obviously any organization's website will be self-complimentary, and therefore biased.

Instead of links to World Vision's offices in every corner of the globe, why not a few links to news stories about W.V., and to verifiable studies by charity watchdogs on what percentage of the group's funding goes toward administrative costs, etc.? Escheffel 23:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Though your followup analogy utilizes an extreme (an important distinction is board oversight, independant financial audit and regulatory/governmental accountability) I do acknowledge the fundamental assumption of your point: the need for any editorial or interpretive writeup (positive or negative) to be independantly verified, or verifiable. I'll look into watchdog and other independant analyses of World Vision's activities.Clearthinker00 23:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks. Escheffel 01:58, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Almost all sources (in google search) are other evangelical church orgs extolling the "bringing of Jesus" and things like that. It's nearly impossibleto find anything middle of the road and hard to find critical articles.

Bakaman Bakatalk 02:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The following points show World Vision has evangelical roots, but that doesn't prove that the organization is overtly evangelistic or coercive. Though the two terms are often confused, evangelicalism is different from evangelism. That's why each has a separate article on Wikipedia. Mdmcginn (talk) 17:53, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Robert Pierce founded the Organisation when he was working as an evangelist for Youth for Christ in China and Southkorea about 3 months after the beginning of the Korean War. Finaly he had to leave it after fundamental discussions over the organisation's missionary mission, later he founded a second "international Christian relief and development organization" named Samaritan’s Purse which is openly evangelical. Its President since 1979 is William Franklin Graham, Son of Billy Graham.

Richard Stearns, „President of World Vision USA“, is a member of (ECI) and describes himself evangelical(see Evangelical Christians and Israel/Palestine and Evangelicals for Social Action).
Bob Seiple has been „President of World Vision USA“ for eleven years (until 1998). He founded the World Visions Institute for Global Engagement (IGE) on the campus of the Eastern University, St. Davids Pennsylvania which is considered the organization's international Think tank. The organization has been offering an „Global MBA in partnership with World Vision“ together with „Eastern School of International Leadership and Development“ since the 90s and is although considered to be evangelical on a regular bases.

  • This article still reads like someone from Wold Vision wrote it. I need to find published references, but I know from two first hand accounts by highly respected scholars that they provide aid in Mongolia to converts only. Aid is the carrot used to get people to convert. They don't advertise this, of course, but this is what's going on. I'll try to find references for this. --Joechip123 (talk) 02:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FWIW

I happen to think (as someone who works for a non-religious relief organisation of a similar size) that the article isn't that bad. I also quite like World Vision though (and we partner them in some places so I cannot claim to be NPOV). A few queries though: last time I checked although World Vision had a mission to help everyone you could only work for them if you were a committed Christian. Is that still true and is it true everywhere? Seems pretty relevant to me. Also I have noticed on the Google Video Tony Campolo advert for Compassion that Compassion promises to "evangelise" every child they sponsor (and Tony says "I just know she'll love the Lord"). Despite being a Christian I found that deeply disturbing. Can we get a position on whether WV does this (which I think is of interest given the vulnerable position of a sponsored child ref the organisation they are helped by)? --BozMo talk 19:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

According to World Vision, employees in context-sensitive countries (Islamic Republic's like Mauritania, etc) are frequently of other faiths such as Muslim. However, outside context-sensitive countries, employees are required to sign a Christian Commitment statement. In most countries (United States and UK for example) World Vision is legally a church, and are protected in their employment practices. Clearthinker00 00:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

In regards to the query on who can work for World Vision, I know that employees of World Vision Australia (The 2nd largest member of the World Vision Partnership), despite not being located in a context-sensitive country, are not required to be Christian or sign a Christian Commitment statement, but rather need to agree only with the values of the organisation, one of which is "We are Christian". World Vision Australia is not a church, and abides by equal opportunity laws. It is my understanding that each member of the World Vision Partnership that makes up World Vision International decides on its own employment policy. --Sand82 08:39, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I work for World Vision in New Zealand and I've never signed or heard of a "Christian Commitment statement", and not all of my co-workers identify themselves as Christian (besides, to anyone who reads their Bible, Christianity is about actions, not beliefs). This "Christian commitment" thing seems to be unique to the US - I've editted the page based on evidence from NZ and Australia (if anyone can clarify further, please do). 203.109.237.60 (talk) 08:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I have issued a massive clean up to this section of the article as it was just getting excessive and not consistent with WP:NOT. All country sites can be accessed via their international portal, so there is no use linking to each individual country site. thewinchester 13:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger of World Vision Australia and World Vision India into this article

I have proposed the merger of articles World Vision Australia and World Vision India into this article. These articles in their own right add little information about themselves, and would be best treated within this article under a new section titled global activities. From there, the activities of these two areas and many more can be documented better. Discussion is being transcluded to the talk pages of the other two articles to ensure all interested parties can be made aware. thewinchester 13:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The articles says "World Vision International operates as a federation of interdependent national offices, each overseen by their own boards or advisory councils." That the office in each country has its own board should be taken into account. Perhaps this makes them too independent to be combined? Also is there a page for the US World Vision Office, or should that be merged in here too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.100.82.59 (talk) 03:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

  • The World Vision Australia page should NOT under any circumstances by merged with the Main/American World Vision Page, they are completely different cuontries and contain separate information that should not be merged together. Cheonge 01:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I agree - this article should NOT be merged. Each of the WorldVision organsiations works in collaboration, but is yet an completly independent entity, often with a fairly different ethos and approach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.20.253.5 (talk) 06:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)