Talk:World Mission Society Church of God
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The purpose of this Wiki article is to put a definition as to who or what the World Mission Society Church of God is. Who they are as a church is defined by what THEY believe in not what other people believe about their beliefs. This page is not an attempt to persuade nor dissuade one from believing what the World Mission Society Church of God practices or believes. One believed it was a good Idea to include the World Mission Society Church of God into the definable realm of Wikipedia and now the mission stands clear as to state a NPOV definition as to who the World Mission Society Church of God is by stating the churches verifiable beliefs and practices. Making sure this page reflects the beliefs of World Mission Society Church of God, not individual opinions.
To ensure that what is written is factual information about the foundation and beliefs of the World Mission Society Church of God. I have included the name of the chief Pastor, that it was indeed founded by Ahnsahnghong in 1948 in Korea. It is in fact an established church that is in every nation on this planet as of 2007. I have included what the church three movement beliefs are, and that they do in fact believe in Father and Mother God. I have included the system of religious practices the church follows. I have included a member count and number of established churches. These things are all factual information about the church of God which can be easily verified by hundreds of Korean websites and ROK governmental agencies if you read or speak Korean of course. What should be included by definition when something is included in an encyclopedia. And there is no need to put the anti-sites on this article that violates the NPOV guidelines for Wikipedia, the Church official website is all that is needed. We are not trying to use Wikipedia to promote or ruin the church, we are only providing the information as to who and what this church is. There are plenty of other places suited to dispute whether one should or should not follow the beliefs of this organization. So I have changed the information once again to reflect the encyclopedic definition of what the World Mission Society Church of God is. To clarify this article is not written like an advertisement, its just that statistical documented beliefs of the World Mission Society Church of God. Angel
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- "It is in fact an established church that is in every nation on this planet as of 2007." This deserves to be in the article if it can be verified. Please verify it. I would also suggest changing the last line to get rid of weasel words, saying exactly who accuses the WMSCOG of being a cult. Otherwise, as the article stands now, it appears to be neutral. Wyote 04:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Additional info
What happened to this page? Wikipedia is not for you to promote your religion. See the NPOV guidelines. Wyote 18:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
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- I've restored the page to its prior condition. Wyote 18:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
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- This is a ridiculous justification. Notice how "Angel" refers to the editor(s) as "we", suggesting a non-neutral viewpoint coming from the church itself (my own interpretation). The article was written as a BLATANT advertisement; I've fixed most of it, but it was reverted. I'm continuing to watch it, for concerns make note on this page. - DMCer 07:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Angel, you have reverted the World Mission Society Church of God article twice now, despite two editors requesting that you first discuss your feelings on the talk page. Wikipedia is not a place for you to promote your religion. I have reverted your edit. Some of what you added would be legitimate if you include a source with your claim. See Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule - DMCer 17:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
This being the talk page. It is clear to see that referances have been inserted. Neither of the two editors requested anything of me. Wyote just reverted the page as you did. My feelings have been posted each time. If you would like to delete this page completely then do so but as long as its on Wikipedia then it will reflect the beliefs of the church, not yours or mine. No where does this article say nor invite anyone to belong. Its just what the church belives in. Your intent is to do harm to this orginization which is clearly seen by what you write. I have stated the source, month, and year to verify the statements. Feel free to look them up and verify them. You one the other hand have stated nothing but your opinions with no source document at all, its DMCER who has reverted this page twice calling it ridiculous justification, thats just your opinion.Angel 17:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
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- There are no opinions in this article, until your repeated reverts. This is an encyclopedia, accusations of "harm" are unfounded and the way to deal with your concerns is NOT to revert the entire article to undo others' edits. If you care about the quality of the aticle, you may fix glaring mistakes such as, "The Church holds three "R" movements “Restore the Faith of the Early Church” movement, “Restore the Truth of the Early Church” movement and “Save the Whole World.” How is this THREE R's? I coun't two. Also, in your template, the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph is very unclear and poorly produced (it runs on). Most importantly, you claim that you are attempting to reflect the views of the church. This is noble, however, you cannot be subjective about this. You are deleting truths such as the Church's prayers to the founder that belong in an accurate article. Lastly, please see the citation guidlines for the proper ways to cite sources. You can't write,"acording to a MBC broadcast," because no one knows what that is. There's a proper way to list references at the bottom of the article. If reverts continue, I will bring this to the attention of an administrator and the page will be locked. I've included some of your neutral edits into the article, please make sure that any additions are grammatically correct, as many previous ones were unclear. Thanks. -DMCer 19:04, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
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- I have attempted to correct the glaring mistakes, I didnt revert the entire article this time, but tried to expound and clarify what might seem confusing, while leaving others edits included such as the truth about the members praying in the name of Ahnsahnghong, I removed the part about them not praying to God as no human can prove who God is or isnt, i believe its a good comprimise of which i am tring to do make this a good source of encylopedic information. I would like to thank you all for helping me learn this wiki system, and of course improve my ability to effectively commumicate. Angel 00:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
- I've formatted the source (although it doesn't turn up in an online search) and have made some minor edits to reflect the tone of an Encyclopedia. Your additions have not been touched.-DMCer 01:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
- I have attempted to correct the glaring mistakes, I didnt revert the entire article this time, but tried to expound and clarify what might seem confusing, while leaving others edits included such as the truth about the members praying in the name of Ahnsahnghong, I removed the part about them not praying to God as no human can prove who God is or isnt, i believe its a good comprimise of which i am tring to do make this a good source of encylopedic information. I would like to thank you all for helping me learn this wiki system, and of course improve my ability to effectively commumicate. Angel 00:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Fundamental Truths
I added Fundamental Truths as found on their website at usa.watv.org. Although I personally disagree with the beliefs of this church, I hope I have represented them fairly - please review and neutralize as necessary. Rj141 04:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
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- This should not read "truth", but rather "beliefs", as Wikipedia does not endorse religious beliefs as truths. I've slightly modified recent additions conform to WP:NPOV. *Reliable* third-party sources on this organization are very scarce; therefore, it is important to watch for dubious statements in support or against this group. Any additions reading like an endorsement, advertisement, or material from the church itself attempting to pass as fact, will be promptly removed. Obviously, this does not apply to the beliefs section, but even that can (and has been), tweaked towards a biased view in favor of the church.-DMCer 17:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC
[edit] A Personal Experience
I originally posted this story in the main body of the article but it was removed. Although the poster did not state the reasons for the removal, there is some justification for removal as it does come from an unverifiable source. It is also a little colorful, but mildly so considering the author's point of view and connection with the church.
Because this account is the truth, and I want it to be written somewhere, I wish to repost it on the talk page. Please do not remove this without good reason.
- I have a step-sister who has been a member for several months. She is drifting away from the family and is refusing to celebrate holidays with us. Her mother and I attended a cookout and church service with this group to show her that we still want to be a part of her life, and as a result I learned a few things about the Church of God.
- 1. This is a doomsday cult. This is a common theme in the world of Korean Christian sects. Specifically, they believe the world will end in 2012. (This is a correction from the originally predicted date of 1988.)
- 2. They believe that on the end day, 144,000 people will ascend into heaven without experiencing death. They are among the 144,000 because they follow the "true" interpretation of the bible. They cite Revelations 7:1-8 and 14:1-5 as proof. For the exact text of these verses, see the following link.
- http://www.apocalipsis.org/144000.htm
- 3. This "true" interpretation rests predominantly on their Saturday Sabbath, their abandonment of bread and wine communion, and their celebration of Passover. (I remarked to the Pastor's wife that since Jewish people also follow these rules, don't they qualify to ascend into heaven, too? She replied: "But the Jews do not believe in Jesus. In fact, they killed Jesus. They are nonbelievers." Well, so much for them I guess.)
- 4. The members refer to each other as 'brother' and 'sister'. They say that the love between "spiritual siblings" is greater than the love between physical siblings.
- I also observed other practices and beliefs that are mentioned in other sections of this article, such as the wearing of the veils, the belief in Ahn Sang-Hong as Christ, and the worship of the Heavenly Mother. Late in the afternoon while we were eating burgers at the park, I expressed my concern to some of the group members that my step sister has been around less often, and seems to be drifting away from the family. They didn't share my concern, but instead replied with the comment, "She's only drifting towards the Truth." This particular member then went on to tell me the importance of becoming part of the Truth myself.
To avoid risking any harmful exposure to these members, I will say only that this is a start up group in a major east coast city. It's leaders are from the New York church, and are good orators and strong believers in the religion's core beliefs. I wish to present as factual an account as possible, so I will not make any more personal commentary on my experience.
Please feel free to reply to this entry. I will stop by periodically to address any issues you have with my experience. I will not respond to "you can't verify this" or other such criticisms, and if you delete it, you better give a good, long reason.
Other sources:
- Korea has a habit of embracing these types of churches.
- http://www.factnet.org/headlines/korean_cults.htm
- Mainstream Christian Koreans consider this church to be heretical.
- http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refworld/rwmain?page=country&docid=42df611d20&skip=&coi=KOR
Jason Gradin (talk) 20:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
