Talk:Women as imams

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[edit] Title

Should the heading for this page not be "Women Imams" instead of "Woman imam".

Maybe. Does anyone have a cite for what Tabari actually said? Looking online, I see some people claiming he allowed women to lead men in prayers in general, and others claiming he only allowed this for their households. - Mustafaa 01:49, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Title: Hmmm. Female Imamath is what I'd really want to put there, but that's not fair to a global audience. Maybe Female Imams? I guess I am agreeing with you on the plural.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 03:27, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

I dunno... "Female imams" sounds somehow off to me, but I'd be fine with "women imams". - Mustafaa 03:33, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

How about "Women as Imams"?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:37, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, "Women as Imams" would work. - Mustafaa 18:34, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Featured article...pictures?

I'd like to submit this to be a W:Featured Article and then Featured Article of the Day. But it must have a graphic to go with it. Any ideas? I will ask the organizers of the NY event...Oh, and I need to add the {{Islam}} template...—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 03:42, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

This probably needs standard footnote references at the bottom to be fairly considered for FAC. How many of the sites listed under external links are references? Also, the folks at FAC unfortunately tend to frown on anything "current". I think the historical discussion could be extended more with various historical opinions, as well as the contemprary debate of ideas, rather than just specific news items of women serving as imams in the last ten years. But this article is definitely developing well, and is already quite a good resource.--Pharos 04:29, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's about the best collection on the topic that I've seen anywhere. I see several others hunting down information, too. The fact is, there really has been no one place to go for all this information. I understand the aversion to a list of newsy items, but we have covered the theology and history as well. And I have added a "See also" section.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:39, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's ready yet. Its coverage of recent events seems extensive, but there must be more information available on the history of woman-only mosques; and, though I don't have the necessary knowledge, I'd rather like to see more detail on Shia positions. - Mustafaa 18:34, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What did Tabari say?

In the comments on this article, I see some people claiming that he only said that women could be imam for tarawih (like the Hanbalis) and one adding that, actually, Tabari doesn't say so in his surviving works; rather, Ibn Jarir quoted him as saying so in a work that does not survive, Ikhtilaf al-Fuqaha, and Ibn Arabi then quoted this work. Ibn Arabi's support seems not to be disputed, but for Tabari I'd really like to see some citations. - Mustafaa 02:38, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ah! I just found Ali Gum'a's fatwa: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplication/english/display.asp?hFatwaID=122881 . It seems al-Arabiya's phrasing was misleading. - Mustafaa 02:42, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Now several sources, including this, agree that Tabari, at least, only allowed it for tarawih. - Mustafaa 03:02, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Zaid Shakir article

Anyone know a place to link to for the recent article by Zaid Shakir?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 18:57, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Found it and added.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:42, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I am moving general treatises to bottom; adding links to bio articles. Please help fix the links and otherwise make this section more useful. It is starting to become one of the best places to go on the Internet to go for a list of opinions from all sides of the discussion. Or I am hoping it will.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:42, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gay Muslim

Officially, there is no such thing as "Gay Muslim". I am a muslim and to my knowledge, no mazhabs of Islam, whether Sunni or Shi'ite recognize homosexuality among muslims. Having said that, there are of course gays among muslims but they are considered to be in a state of grave sin until they repent. Therefore, I'm modifying the relevant sections to include this view. I don't have the appropiate Quranic quotations to support this and in any case I think such quotation would get too off topic and belong in the Homosexuality article. However, feel free to modify it if you think its POV.

I reverted your edits because it's not really relevant to this article... and, we are not here to tell people what is Islam... they identify themselves as gay and Muslim... an encyclopedia needn't point out that they are called kafirs by some Muslims. gren 05:29, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Request for information

Can a few lines be put on Women as theological figures which is meant to be a general overview of the subject.

Jackiespeel 10:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


what about women giving the Friday sermon but not leading the prayer? They have been more common and I think something about that should be included.

[edit] NPOV

Could someone clarify if this is NPOV; "Traditional scholars caution against Yusuf Qaradawi's Fiqh (jurisprudence) methodology, and especially his excessive leniency to the point of laxity. He does not limit himself to the relied upon positions of the four Sunni schools of fiqh, and is notorious among scholars for his many aberrant positions. They respect him as a scholar; they are cautious and caution others about those positions of his that depart from the mainstream."

If it isn't then I recommend changing the article.84.9.160.164

[edit] Vast Minority?

The term "a vast minority" strikes me as oxymoronic. Does it mean "a large minority" - say 40% of more or does it mean "a very small minority" say 1% or less? I suspect the latter but I would not presume to change the article because it is a subject about which I know virtually nothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Majurawombat (talk • contribs) 23:39, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ghazala al-Haruriyya

Notice this:

In the early years of Islam, one sect of Kharijites founded by Habib ibn-Yazīd al-Harūrī held that it was permissible to entrust the imamate to a woman if she were able to carry out the required duties. The founder's wife, Ghazāla al-Harūriyya, even commanded troops, following the example of Abu Sufyan's daughter Juwayriyya at the battle of Yarmuk.

Totally irrelevant to the subject. the imama that Habib the Khariji meant was not leading in prayer, rather it meant leading in governance, battle and law. There is no historical evidence that states that Ghazala ever lead a prayer. Her leading an army is irrelevant because this is another subject altogether.

Also, the above quote implies that not only Ghazala lead prayer, but also Juwayriyya lead the prayer at the battle of Yarmuk - the last is actually absurd. --Maha Odeh 12:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Women as muftis and deputy muftis

Perhaps there should be a mention of the three women muftis appointed in Hyderabad in September 2003 [1], and the 450 women deputy muftis (called vaizes) appointed in Turkey [2] [3], starting in 2004/2005 [4]. These positions are I think usually considered superior to that of imam (though I guess they don't present the same theological issues).--Pharos (talk) 17:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)