Talk:Wolfgang Borchert

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Sorry, this is not my day. Could a native speaker please take a look at this? Get-back-world-respect 17:52, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Okay. Some questions as I go -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:08, 28 May 2004 (UTC):

• "which he found hard to stand" - was it his being conscripted that he found hard to stand, or conditions at the front? (I'm guessing mostly the latter) Given that probably everyone found the eastern front hard to stand, we should say why he in particular found it problematic. Didn't like military life? Found the violence sickening? Or just general worn-down by the whole experience?
• "Borchert had conflicts with the Hitlerjugend" (btw, I think I'll change that to "Hitler Youth" and link to it, as it's usually called that in english). "had conflicts" is a bit unclear - was he in the HJ and didn't like it, or was he not in it, and got into fights with its members.
• "was affected by the Gestapo": again, a bit unclear. Arrested? Harassed? Beaten-up? Spied-upon?
• "He could flee..." "and marched home 600 kilometers" I take this to mean that he did flee, and did walk home, yes?
• "a specialized hospital in Switzerland" - I assume this hospital specialised in hepatitis, and that hepatitis was also his cause of death?
• is "statements endangering the country" the name of the actual crime?
• do you know anything about his family background - I find it makes the first sentence of a biography read well if it goes something like: "Born in Hamburg in 1921, the son of a Silesian accountant...". It's not necessary, but it gives us something to write about for the first 20 or so years of his life, which (for most people) is rather uneventful.
• if I read the Esperanto version right, wasn't his first theatre in Lüneburg?
• when did he enter the sanitorium (which month)?

Pfew. I'm done, I think (sorry, looks like I took "edited mercilessly" to heart). I think it reads okay, except for the "Borchert had conflicts..." sentence, which is abominable. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:10, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help, I think you improved it greatly. Regarding the questions:

• "hard to stand" has gone, so that is solved.
• conflicts with Hitlerjugend means he was in but was disgusted by it, it was not easy to leave if you wanted but he managed to do so
• I have no idea why I wrote "affected".
• He did flee, and did walk home, yes.
• He was treated for the liver disease which was also the cause of his death, but I only know that the hospital was deemed to be better in treating the illness than others, I doubt that it was a clinic especially for people with hepatitis
• the actual name of the "crime" was "staatsgefährdende Äußerungen", which I translated literally
• he was the only child of regional author Hertha Borchert and teacher Fritz Borchert.
• As far as I know his first theatre was in Hannover and I do not know in which month he entered the sanatorium in Switzerland. Get-back-world-respect 20:42, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I think I'm done now. I chunked it up into a pre-war, a war, and a post-war paragraph, which seems like a sensible idea. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:38, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Umm... The translation for Draußen vor der Tür Should be Outside in Front of the Door or Outside Before the Door, shouldn't it? Has anyone seen a Translation fo the book that calls it The Man Outside? Not only does this translation lose the denotation, the connotation is lost as well. -- Knapp 21:52 15 November 2006.

The English translation does indeed seem to be called "The Man Outside". It is presumably trying to get across the literal meaning of the German as well as the implied alienation, being left out in the cold, almost an outcast, not able/allowed to join in. It's a long time since I read it; so I don't remember the plot very well, but I do remember that atmosphere, with the ex-POW returning home to find his old life gone, stolen, and unable to re-join society. Not to be read if you are feeling depressed to start with. --Boson 23:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I've seen that translation, but I also saw it translated to "Outside the Door" in an essay (presumable self-translated from the German). I think this hits both the literal and symbolic meaning better. Since the most prominent English translation is "The Man Outside" I don't recommend we change it, but perhaps add something along the lines of literally, "Outside the Door"? CKnapp 22:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd have no objection to adding the literal translation, e.g. "literally "outside the door", English translation published as "The Man Outside" - unless there's some established practice for book titles. Perhaps it should be policy to always state if the English is the title under which it was published in English-speaking countries or something else. Although I'm not especially fond of the "official" translation, I don't think that the literal translation gets the connotations across particularly well. To me, "draußen vor der Tür" (bleiben) has connotations of someone or something being effectively excluded or denied access (outside, in the cold), whereas "outside the door" conveys that someone or something is about to enter (or attempt entry), more like the German "vor der Tür" without the "draußen". --Boson 07:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

We could continue this conversation on the translation for a while; however, I don't think it is of much use on this page. I'm going to respond to your comment on my talk page, because I'm interested in this discussion-if you are interested in the conversation, feel free to talk. If not, no hard feelings. CKnapp 00:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)