User talk:Wm

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Contents 1 howard 2 soph 3 Hi from Skud 4 ABC rewrite 5 The Honourable 6 Scott Ritter 7 Damn, you are brave! 8 It's cool 9 East Timor Cover Up 10 Re: No response to discussion 11 Prester John 12 Jimbo is coming to Sydney 13 Downer 14 David Hicks 14.1 Brick by brick... 15 Now, now… 16 reverting sexual assault material 17 Was? Is. 18 RfC SkyRing 19 G'day 20 Drinks and a wiki chat? 21 Image copyright problem with Image:Byte Front Cover April 1981.jpg

[edit] howard

those links have previously been removed. they are non-encyclopaedic. and if they were to stand, i should be allowed to put up links to liberal propaganda on mark latham's and bob brown's pages (which no-one would ever let me do). Xtra 03:40, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

FWIW, my suggestion is to make it:

In 2003 Howard denied when he had been asked in Parliament whether any communication had occurred between the government and any representative of ethanol producers prior to a granting Manildra, a major Liberal Party donor, with more than $20 million a year in subsidies. It was subsequently alleged by Margo Kingston in the Sydney Morning Herald [1] that he had in fact met with Dick Honan, the chairman of the Manildra Group of companies, on the 1st of August, 2002.

This way you are stating who is making the allegations, and you don't remove any of your material. This is proper sourcing. If you do this, then make sure you add the reference to the References section, as per cite your sources. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:14, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

hi. i don't want to get into an edit war. i just don't like wikipedia being used as a forum to push political rants. the most highly scrutinised and critisised people in the world are those who let the people see what they are doing. many things that people say about democratic leaders by oppositions shadow in comparison to what undemocratic autocrats, like mugabe, milosevic and Hussein do. people are far more careful with their words when describing such people. Xtra 13:09, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

you might want to register at Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Australia m.e. 09:52, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Don't give me that crap. You want to make sure that everyone knows that someone who critisises a left wing person is noted as right wing but you don't want that reciprocated. That is a blatant breach of NPOV. Xtra 02:06, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

i made no such claim. try to read. and learn how to aproach things from an unbiased perspective. i am on a break. don't disturb me with your spindoctoring nonsense. Xtra 12:40, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] soph

Sorry for the links I added which were somewhat off-topic, Wm. Thanks for noting that. Being new to Wiki, I wasn't sure how strict the community was on those kind of things. I'll go back and remove any others that don't exactly match the topic. Thanks again.

[edit] Hi from Skud

Hi! Just checking in. I notice you wrote Pyrmont Bridge -- I was just wondering yesterday where there was a page for that. And I was wondering about the Rocks Push the other day, too, after reading about them in a book. I have some interesting information about the styles of clothing preferred by the various gangs at that time... quite colourful! If I were to put that info somewhere, do you think the Rocks Push page would be best, or is there a more general one on that gang culture in Sydney in the late 19th century? --Skud 11:17, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ABC rewrite

Someone else did this (CyberJunkie), objecting to the instability that a major rewrite would create, and I can see his point. I'll advise him and he might debate this with you. I have no objection to rewriting in the normal location, but it's not hard to get to the rewrite: just hit 'Discussion' at top, then '/Rewrite'—takes all of seven seconds.

I'd be pleased to hear your ideas on the artice.

Tony 12:25, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I received your message, and have asked Cyberjunkie what to do, since he was the protagonist. I'm relatively inexperienced in the administrative side of Wikipedia. All I'm concerned about is that the ABC article be excellent, and in particular, comprehensive and 'neutral'. Frankly, I thought it was pretty bad, and that it probably needed to be nuked and another started, perhaps with scraps from the old article. I don't conceive it as a 'private project', as you put it, and I think Cyberjunkie just wants to avoid the messiness of work in progress in the main article.

What are your thoughts on the article?

Tony 03:17, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello Wm. The reason I created a temporary sub-page for Tony was because his rewrite was leaving the article, as viewed by our readers, in a ghastly state (refer Revision as of 23:51, 4 August 2005). It was not appropriate, in my view, to leave the article with notices such as "WORK IN PROGRESS.." placed randomly throughout. To rectify this, I created a temporary sub-page in which Tony could go about the (much needed) rewrite at his own pace. This is not an uncommon thing on Wikipedia. Users wanting to make major edits to an article, but not wishing to expose the often messy process to our readers, will create a sub-page in the user-space or of the article. This is why you will often see "temp" or "rewrite" sub-pages of articles, and "sandbox", "drafts", "lab" or "scratch-pad" in user-space.

The use of a sub-page by no means excludes editors from editing the actual article. It is the responsibility of anyone using a sub-page for a rewrite to incorporate any changes made to the article. I have changed the html comment that Tony placed in the article to reflect this. I have also posted a brief explanation on the article's talk page.

I don't believe any wiki-principles (which you seem to strongly support) are being compromised. And, as mentioned, this is not unusual. Ideally, it would be nice to have editors make changes to an article incrementally without need for a sub-page. Hopefully, however, you understand why it was necessary in this case. Tony is a newbie, so let him so leeway. If you have any further concerns, please let me know. Thanks, --Cyberjunkie | Talk 09:31, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Honourable

Hi Wm. I haven't reverted Menzies because Adam's already taken care of that one with this edit. Cheers, Slac speak up! 00:07, 9 August 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Scott Ritter

Hi Newhoggy, howz things? I've been spending some time on the Scott Ritter page which looks very messay and poorly written and maybe some POV issues happenning there. Maybe if you have some time and inclination you might like to have a look and see what you think. Cheers. --Wm 05:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi Wm, I'm not familiar with Scott Ritter, but I'll have a look at it. Another thing is that the Bob Brown has been officially elected as as the Parliamentary Party Leader, which is quite different role compared to the Party Leader of other political parties. The potential for confusion is unfortunate, but what can be done? It is the first time the Australian Greens has formalised a leadership role within the party and the wiki pages will need to be updated to reflect that. Newhoggy | Talk 11:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Damn, you are brave!

Did you really go to Cronulla and get pictures amongst the violence? I could never go there, not least because by gf's family is Lebanese (she is 100% Aussie). - Ta bu shi da yu 07:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I amnot ashamed of my gf, nor am I ashamed of her heritage. Just thought I'd clear that up. And I define my race as Australian, and I don't for one moment consider myself a jingoistic moron. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] It's cool

It's cool. I'm just a might defensive at the moment. See [2] - Ta bu shi da yu 21:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] East Timor Cover Up

You may like to comment on Proposal to delete Alleged East Timor Cover up Mccready 03:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: No response to discussion

Hi Wm,

The last time I looked at the talk page was between when Adam Carr expressed his view about the commentary section and when you replied to him. I didn't realise that you had replied to Adam. Andjam 14:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prester John

Howdy, I see we are working out the Tampa issue. I like your edits and your writing style. Peace.

[edit] Jimbo is coming to Sydney

Sorry to spam you if you aren't interested. See Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney#April 25th for more info if you are interested. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Downer

We seem to have been sparring slightly over some points in the Downer article. Your more recent edits have improved the article so I'll let sleeping dogs lie. There is more to the East Timor thing (continental shelf, legally recognised treaty etc), but it's not worth getting involved in an area that is likely to stir greater debate and is of little importance to me. I did look up some references for Steketee to prove his left wing bias, however most of them were by very right wing groups (think tanks and US based groups) and were not what I would think could be called unbiased in their own right. Ozdaren 22:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] David Hicks

I noticed your improvements to the David Hicks intro, and it is now depicting both sides of the story better. For referencing, I sometimes refer to Wikipedia:Citation templates to format the references. However, it is a painstaking process to fill in all the details of a reference, when someone could revert it (which they shouldn't). See what happens. Cheers, Lester 22:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Brick by brick...

Wm, I thought I might ask this in the relatively privacy of a user talk page, rather than the rabble of article talk page. Using this edit here by Skring. Try to look past the abrupt nature of reverts - what are your concerns? Can the stuff that Skyring removed be incorporated into a subsequent paragraph (I note some pleas bargain info already is)?

As a start, can we take Skyring’s reverted edit and drop the “for involvement with terrorism” in place of specifics of the charge and plea bargain. No, the following is not perfect would it be something that you could live with if it meant others could do the same? (yes, this is only the first paragraph – more work later!). Thus, we would have:

David Matthew Hicks is an Australian who, after five years detention by the United States government on suspicion of terrorism involvement, entered into a plea bargain on the charge of "providing material support for terrorism"; he was thus, the first Guantanamo Bay detainee to be convicted under the U.S. Military Commissions Act of 2006.

Maybe another sticking point will be "providing material support for terrorism" in place of "terrorism involvemnt". hmmm

Thoughts? If you're happy, can we propose on talk page? regards --Merbabu (talk) 02:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Now, now…

Wm, Skyring. Is a 3 revert warning from one, and a counter vandalism comment from the other really going to help? [3] Rise above it. You both need to work together on it – we all do. Notions of the all important consensus are illusive enough without such games. (comment made on both your pages) Thanks fellas. --Merbabu (talk) 03:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This edit summary was inappropriate. Please see Help:Edit summary for details of what should and should not be included in an edit summary. Just because someone's been blocked for edit warring doesn't mean that (a) they're wrong (b) they deserve to have it splashed around. Stifle (talk) 11:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] reverting sexual assault material

Please note Wikipedia's no original research (WP:NOR) policy. Please note from that page:

Wikipedia does not publish original research (OR) or original thought.

and

Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources.

Jimmy Wales in 2006 said:

Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information

My action in deleting the paragraph was to remove false information that was also original research. Please see my comments on the discussion page. Your paragraph said:

The report alleged a level of sexual abuse of overall 17% of females and 7.7% of males reported experiencing some form of sexual abuse while under institutional or foster care.

This was an extrapolation of the information provided in the source and was hence 'original research'.

As per your suggestion:

it would be more helpful to change the text so that it is, in your view, more accurate.

...I made the text more accurate by deleting it since none of it was represented in the source provided.

Sexual abuse was mentioned in the source (as you correctly identified). The points in your paragraph were not.

OzWoden (talk) 11:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Was? Is.

How does changing from government to opposition have any effect on his status as father of the house? Timeshift (talk) 16:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC SkyRing

I'm new to all this stuff, but I've reluctantly signed because it seemed like the right thing to do. However, given what appears to be SkyRing's actual behaviour, there's a likelyhood that this will merely be percieved by him as a badge of honour and an opportunity to engage in yet more of the same. I only say this because his gaming is in fact a pattern of behaviour that was identified in the 1950s by transactional pschologist Eric Berne as a way of drawing attention to onesself by making onesself the centre of an apparently 'intractable' dispute (in this case, its a version of the game called 'Yes, but ...'. Its a social formula designed to engage others in an inauthentic conversation and has nothing to do with the actual content of the discussion that appears to be at stake. Anyway, I hope this process bears its intended fruit. Eyedubya (talk) 00:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Like you, I have limited time for this sort of thing, so I guess we'll just have to see what happens from here.Eyedubya (talk) 01:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] G'day

G'day esteemed person who has expressed interest in Sydney based meetups at this page (I hope that's the correct wording for the formal greeting!!). You may have heard that Australia is to have its very own 'chapter' of the Wikimedia Foundation - and further, there's a meeting coming up to discuss / enact the chapter's incorporation (details here). I'm afraid that I don't know too much about the details of what this entails, other than having a private hope that we might get a secret handshake, and maybe cheap coffee at wikimania (this is a poor attempt at humour - I'm sure that the Chapter's do great work, and it's a good thing that Australia is to have one).

If you're interested in meeting up this weekend (the set date is the 20th) - or later, then please do head over here and sign up, or make a comment at the talk page... the drive to create the chapter has largely come from another town in Australia that I'm afraid I haven't actually heard much about.. and anything they can do.... right? - cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 11:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Drinks and a wiki chat?

G'day sydneysider - fancy a 'not quite a meetup but a few drinks' sort of thing? - We can chat about the new aussie chapter, the price of eggs and have our very own 2020 Wiki Summit! - or just sink a couple of cold ones and gass bag about the good 'ol days of wiki, when an editor could get some repsect (not a typo)! I've suggested something here so take a look and sign up if you're up for it... cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 02:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Byte Front Cover April 1981.jpg

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