Talk:Witte Wieven

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who is changing this treath for the worse leave my dutch stories where they are

They are copyright violations, as they are verbatim copies off other websites. Furthermore, this is an english encylcopedia; If you translate them into english you'll solve both problems though… --W(t) 22:06, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

they are old folk stories hundreds of years old they can not be owned you silly american

The story as a whole cannot be copyrighted, specific transcriptions are copyrighted for a fixed period since the first transcription of their publication. There's no indication that these transcriptions are that old. See Copyright for more info. Anyway, this is an english encyclopædia, so dutch stories aren't useful, please stop adding them.
Also: Please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks. And while we're at it: not everyone on the internet is american. --W(t) 20:20, 2005 May 26 (UTC)
The External links that are in Dutch make sense in such a specifically Dutch subject. Someone fluent in Dutch might use them to make a more sensible article. I'm going to restore them. --20:31, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough, but they belong on talk then. Moved. --W(t) 20:54, 2005 May 26 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] External links for expanding the article

[edit] Grammar

Is it okay to lower case witte weiven and possibly rename the page "Witte wieven"? It does not seem to be a proper name. Goldenrowley 23:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plural of dis?

Why the plural form "disen"? Is it attested? I could understand the logic, but it seems wrong using a Dutch plural form on the English Wikipedia. The common form in scholarship seems to be the Norse "dísir". 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 19:54, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I beleive all 3 should remain plurals grammatically in the sentence (disen, land wights, and/or alven), in any case it's from the source (German). Goldenrowley 03:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't mind the plural tense, just this form. What source are you using? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 12:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

Would Weisse Frauen, Witte Wieven, and Dames Blanches (folklore) combined into one triple-sectioned page make for a more complete article? Adding this to talk pages of all three, with apology. Pishogue (talk) 02:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

As separate and diverging cultures I'd keep them separate.Goldenrowley (talk) 16:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Saying that, what is your idea of "complete" mythological coverage since you think this is not? I see each as a character in a mythology of their own region and language w/o merging. To me "completing" them would be to add appropriate stories and descriptions of their appearance...which I try to flesh out when I have time... Goldenrowley (talk) 16:57, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

If my choice of words was unwise, I apologize. Perhaps substitute "useful" for "complete." What I mean to say is, the articles all treat on the same subject, the "white lady" fairy-figure (as opposed to the "white lady" ghost), and in translation all three articles would be titled "white lady." To me, the articles do not seem differentiated enough to make three separate articles worthwhile. Take the following quotations from the articles:

  • In some places they were known as Juffers or Joffers ("ladies"), or as Dames Blanches ("white woman") in French...Jacob Grimm mentioned them in the Deutsche Mythologie (1835) as the Dutch variant of the Germanic weisse frauen. (from Witte Wieven.


  • The Dames Blanches have close counterparts in both name and characterization in neighboring northern countries: In Germany the Weisse Frauen and in the Dutch Low Countries the Witte Wieven. (from Dames Blanches (folklore)


  • The Weisse Frauen also have counterparts in both name and characterization in neighboring countries: In the Low Countries known as the Witte Wieven, and in France known as the Dames blanches. (from Weisse Frauen)

All three versions of the White Lady probably derived, at one point in time, from the same Teutonic source. Their geographic sources are also quite close. The article on Mermaid covers the mermaid in cultures as various as Assyria and Britain. The (B-Class) article on Elf covers the elf in Scandinavia, Britain, Germany, Iceland, etc, with each section about as long as each of the White Lady articles. The Elf article as it stands seems to me more useful than six separate articles on elves in six separate (but related) cultures. What I propose is a merge of Witte Wieven and Weisse Frauen into Dames Blanches (mythology) or, preferably, white lady/woman/women (mythology), with a leader on their similarities and then segmentation into cultural differences. Pishogue (talk) 01:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)