Talk:Witold Pilecki

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Featured article star Witold Pilecki is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 24, 2005.
January 3, 2005 Featured article candidate Promoted
Peer review This History article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia. It has been rated FA-Class on the assessment scale (comments).
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Contents

[edit] Stub?

this page could do with more, but it doesn't seem to be a stub any more since it covers his life and greatest deeds. What's missing? Can we delete the stub notice? 08:00, 2004 Jul 22 (UTC) (no comment will be taken as agreement :-)

I am just a perfectionist, so I tend to leave big stubs everywhere, bit I guess you are right, this is not that stubbish now. If you have time, do browse the external links and add some more info though, they still have some interesting details. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 08:40, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] References and peer review

This needs references. Any other ideas for improvement before I submit this to Wikipedia:Peer review and eventually Wikipedia:Featured article candidates? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:06, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I never thought this article will reach that far... Halibutt 00:19, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)
I think it can make it. It is well written, very interesting, and featured article don't have to be very long. Witold already has over 2 screens, which make it long enough IMHO. So, are you up to putting finishing touches on it? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 12:59, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Some questions:

1. Could you provide IPA pronunciation for Witold Pilecki's name?

Ummm. How do I make it?
No problem Halibutt

2. What is the Russian spelling of "Oloniec"?

No idea. I have seen English spelling Oluniec as well. I believe text from Polish sources is most correct and so I chose Ołoniec.
Olonets is the transcryption I used somewhere in the wiki Halibutt

3. Is "Jozef Pilsudski" correct? Any relation to the Marshal?

Ops, my (?) mistake. Jozef Pilecki.

4. What is "primary trading school" in the original Polish? "Podstawowa szkola zawodowa"? What is it?

Szkola Handlowa w Wilnie in Polish. I doubt English term is much valid, but considering the age Witold graduated (13-14 years) it looks like a type of primary school.

5. What were the "commandos" ("kommandos"?) at Auschwitz?

Ummm. Who do you mean, exatly? I wrote about Cichociemni's only, and I can't find any mentions of commandos in Auschwitz in that article (of course, many commandos were imprisoned there, but this is another article, I believe).

6. "night of April 26 and 28th": do you mean "26th and 27th"?

Yes, fixed.

7. What is the original Polish of "Great Bastion of Warsaw"?

I am not sure, it comes from English source only.
I'm sure I saw it once, I'll check that. AFAIR the Polish name was much less pompatic... Halibutt

8. Is the Polish original "Wiezienie rakowieckie"? What does "rakowieckie" refer to?

In Polish orginal, "więzienie mokotowskie". Englis sources mention "Rakowiecka prison". I believe the terms refer to the same place and the second name is more popular?
I prepared a decent article on Mokotów prison (Rakowiecka Street) once, but my computer crashed before I saved my work... Halibutt

9. Why wasn't I able to get these questions to stay on your user page? Logologist 09:02, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No idea. Wiki has been acting a bit laggy past 2 days, maybe it some engine fault? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:10, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Kommandos

You write: "At Auschwitz, while working in various kommandos and surviving pneumonia..." A "kommando" would seem to be some kind of organization or work detail. I would, however, keep the wording as it currently exists. Interesting article! Logologist 23:40, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

AFAIK it is German word, meaning "team" or something similar. Pibwl ←« 17:24, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two points on translation

Rendering Krzyż Walecznych as "Cross of the Valorous" is, in my judgment, an example of excessive metaphrasis ("literality"). A more proper English equivalent would be "Cross of Valor."

"Prusy Army," which I gather in the Polish original reads "Wojsko Prusy," is an example of the opposite phenomenon: inappropriate paraphrase. I am confident that, in a competently edited English-language history, this military unit would appear (metaphrastically) as "Army Prusy." Logologist 20:07, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

During September Camapaing, Polish forces were organised into many 'Armia (Regional name goes here)' units, like 'Armia Prusy' (not 'wojsko'). I also think that better translation would be 'Army (name)'. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:34, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
As to the 1939 Armies - we've started similar discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Polish Army. As to the Krzyż Walecznych - for me Cross of Valor is too ambiguous. It might refer to: Krzyż Walecznych, Krzyż za Odwagę, Medal za Odwagę, Za Dzielność and Krzyż za Męstwo - all were military decorations used on Polish lands (although most of them in tsarist times). I'd leave it as it is, without making it too easy to read and too difficult to distinguish from the rest. Or, alternatively, we could simply leave it without any translation. Halibutt 02:23, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Second Corps

Why is Poland's "Drugi Korpus" rendered on the Wikipedia as "2nd Polish Corps" instead of--as seems to me more accurate--"Polish 2nd Corps"? Logologist 01:27, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Captions

I think it would remove a certain cut-and-paste quality, if fresh captions could be made for three photos:

1. Gate to Auschwitz Concentration Camp (1941), with German motto: "Work liberates."

2. Auschwitz Concentration Camp photos of Pilecki.

3. Photos of Pilecki from Warsaw's Mokotow Prison (1947).

Logologist 08:20, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] To elope

Rich Farmbrough is right: "eloped" can mean running away to get married. It can also, in a second, equally valid sense, mean simply "to run away; escape; abscond." It was in the latter meaning that I wanted to use "elope" in this article, to avoid verbal repetitiveness. As it was, I used "escape" twice within the span of four sentences. Unfamiliarity with a meaning is not synonymous with the meaning's illegitimacy (the latter word not to be confused with "bastardy"!). And an unfamiliar application can sometimes breathe a useful whimsy into a text. Logologist 04:43, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Style isn't always easy! Websters says "To run away, or escape privately, from the place or station to which one is bound by duty; said especially of..." so I would avoid elope. Abscond implies wrong doing, as does absquatulate, which is also obscure. Somtimes repetition is best. I have changed the first occurance of escape to "break out", what do you think? (Change it back if you like.) Good article by the way. Rich Farmbrough 13:14, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Break out" does read well. Thanks for the suggestion. Logologist 18:57, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations

on well-deserved Featured Article recognition today. Logologist 04:41, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yup, congrats to all who contributed to this article! Halibutt 05:42, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
One of the most interesting feature articles ive read, esp the stuff about the ZOW. The bellman 04:52, 2005 Jan 24 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiquote?

Great article, thank you very much. Is it OK that the wikiquote link points to an empty page? BACbKA 06:37, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
sorry for interfeering with this nicely laid out discussion page... but why is there a link to wikiquote from this article? There don't seem to be any quotes from pilecki there!

Good point, fixed (added some quotes). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:56, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Further Congrats and Vandal Report

Excellent work! His story deserved to be told a long time ago.

There is a vandal who has been adding lines about Pilecki being a pedophile. Someone else has been reverting to the unvandalized version, but the vandal may be back. I add this article to my watclist so I can keep an eye out, but I don't know how to revert to earlier versions.

Is there any way to appeal to the Wiki staff to block the vandal's IP address?

Try WP:ViP. BTW, would you like to form a user account? Example (talk · contribs) 09:55, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)ou considered adding a link to Norman

I too want to congratulate you all on such a superb and entertaining and colorful article. What a beautiful job and excellently done. Bravo to all!WHEELER 14:25, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations to all involved in putting this excellent article together, have you considered adding Warsaw Uprising in "see also" I know it is linked in the text. Norman Davies newly published '"Rising '44 : the battle for Warsaw": Norman Davies: Viking Books, 2004.'or 2004: Rising '44. The Battle for Warsaw. London: Pan Books. ISBN 0-333-90568-7 in this work Davies highlights the lack of support for the Polish resistance shown in this article re; liberation of Auschwitz "British authorities refused the Home Army air support". The importance of this storey cannot be underestimated, this is possibly seen in the despicable vandal attackNigel Savage 06:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personal life, wife, children?

There is no mention in the article about him being married, yet there is a picture of his widow's tombstone. I believe that a paragraph would be warranted regarding his wife, whether or not he had any children, and what became of them. -- James Teterenko (talk) 20:23, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the note, it should be covered now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:28, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Related Article: Rotmistrz

I don't know how to properly pluralize rotmistrz. I used "rotamasters" in the article when I started a section on notable holders of the rank. I have Pilecki for the modern era --- maybe someone conversant in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth history knows of a few medieval guys to put in the list?--Jpbrenna 00:27, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Michal Grocholski, Prokop Sieniawski, Franciszek Sebastian Lubomirski and Zygmunt Szendzielarz (modern era)--Emax 00:48, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

The link to Murnau should be disambiguated to point to Murnau am Staffelsee, since Murnau itself is a disambiguation page. -- Dominus 19:21, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the note, fixed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:55, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Escape from Auschwitz conflicts with Cyrankiewicz

The Józef_Cyrankiewicz article says that Pilecki escaped by faking Typhus. This one says that he overpowered a guard at a bakery. Am I missing something?--Medicmann 20:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Probably one is incorrect. It has been close to a year since I read stuff on it and wrote the article. IIRC the bakery is the correct version, and the typhus may be a failed attempt - but sb needs to go over the sources. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

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  • This article needs footnotes, preferably in the cite.php format recommended by WP:WIAFA. Simply, enclose inline citations, with WP:CITE or WP:CITE/ES information, with <ref>THE FOOTNOTE</ref>. At the bottom of the article, in a section named “References” or “Footnotes”, add <div class="references-small"><references/></div>.
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[edit] Scouting

[edit] Contradiction?

The last section seems to contradict itself. If "he was ordered by General Władysław Anders to return to Poland and gather intelligence to be sent to the West. He went back and proceeded to organize his intelligence network..." and "Pilecki was accused of having spied for the Western Allies and General Anders", than how come "Pilecki's conviction was based on false charges..."? Either I don't understand something, or one of those three fragments is incorrect. With respect, Ko Soi IX 04:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC) Thank you, Piotrus. One small question though, why did you change "probably forged" to simply "forged"? With respect, Ko Soi IX 05:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)