Talk:Wiradjuri

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[edit] Changes

I've attempted make some changes in order to ensure the page uses non-racist language, partially capitalization of 'Aboriginal' and have made use of 'Aboriginal people' rather than 'Aborigines'. I also removed the reference to alcohol contributing to the decline in population. Not denying is was a contributing factor, I just want to find a citation before putting it back in. Fizban 14:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reversions of edits made by 203.54.186.83

[edit] Name meaning

As inappropriate as the manner in which this anon has contested the meaning of "Wiradjuri" is, I have to agree with him/her that it probably does not mean "people of the three rivers". Most peoples in the area are named after their word for "no" (e.g. Kamilaroi word for "no" is "kamil"). The Wiradjuri word for "no" happens to be wirrai, which confirms my suspicion. --Ptcamn 14:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Ptcamn, what is your ref for: "The Wiradjuri word for "no" happens to be wirrai..."??

Mathews, R. H. (Jul.–Dec. 1904). "The Wiradyuri and Other Languages of New South Wales". The Journal of the Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland 34: 284–305. 
The spelling wirai is given by Günther, James (1892). "Grammar and Vocabulary of the Aboriginal dialect called Wirradhuri", in Fraser, John: An Australian Language. Sydney: Government printer, 56–120 of appendix.  --Ptcamn 06:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

TY, TY Ptcamm. It seems there is some sense here. I think it was Howitt (or was it Prof Elkin, I'm not sure I have all their publications and papers here but lazy) waxed on re the No thing and justified it, but culturally it means other than that also. Tindale isnt really an authority apart on renaming stuff and recoding stuff, then obscuring it. The stuff he hid isnt too bad re its veracity, but the stuff he published I'd take with a huge grain of salt.

Elkin, Tindale or Howitt werent around 10 kya ago to say "These people are now named the Wiradjuri" so the sound (of the word) origin needs to be traced. I dounbt if Tindale had anything to do with the three rivers thingy. Morelike, Peter Kabiala or someone like that. Have you ever noticed a lot of location name supposedly mean 'quiet place by the river'. That is what gets told to people if they get too nosey and they go publish it. When some go wanting cultural info, they get told something, they go away happy, the real info is protected and all are happy. It works well I think. By the time anyone gets to knowing what words mean from their own cognitive ability, they know to not publish some words, so also join the 'quiet place by a river' brigade.

  • No problem, cite your source. The source, for the present meaning is I think Norman Tindale who is quite possibly mistaken but definitely an authority. There are no doubt more up to date sources. As of this morning the link to the Tindale page referenced in the article is down. However, the NSW National Parks and Wildlife service gives Wiradjuri means 'people of the three rivers', these rivers being the Macquarie, Lachlan and Murrumbidgee [1] and they are citing a printed publication: Heritage Office (HO) and Department of Urban Affairs and Planning (DUAP) 1996. Regional Histories: Regional Histories of New South Wales. Sydney. --A Y Arktos\talk 21:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I can't find a source specifically saying that Wiradjuri is derived from "no", unfortunately, but this comes close:
Fraser, John (1892). An Australian Language.... Sydney: Government printer. “Of these tribes, the Kamalarai, Walarai, Ngaiamba, Bakanji, Wiradhari, the Associated Tribes, the Ngarego, the Kuringgai, are named already established and in use; and most of them are formed from the local word for ‘no,’ and thus describe more the speech than the people.” 
--Ptcamn 06:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Wiradjuri Words http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiradjuri-Words.jpg -- RobertM 08:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Hooray for Google Books!
Jose, Arthur W. (1918). History of Australasia. “in Eastern Australia tribe-groups were known by their word for No—the Kamilaroi of the Namoi Plains using “Kamil,” the Wiradhuri of the Riverina saying “Wirrai,” and so on.” 
Frazer, James George (1910). Totemism and Exogamy. “The name Wiradjuri is derived from wirai, a word which in the tribal language means “no.”” 
--Ptcamn 03:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protection

I have semiprotected this articles as per the discussion at Talk:Gundagai, New South Wales:

I will similarly semi-protect any related articles if I notice any abusive edits being carried out from the same IP range - abusive edits refers to the tone of the edit summary as well as the actual edit itself.
All editors should be aware of Wikipedia policies and guidelines, specifically: No original research, Verifiability, No personal attacks, Civility and Etiquette. Any editors breaching any of the policies will be blocked and their contributions reverted.
Recommencing editing in less than the block period is a breach of the Blocking policy.
All editors have also been put on notice that comments on talk pages should be signed. Unsigned comments may be reverted.

Any comments about the semiprotection should be directed to the relevant Request for Comment.--A Y Arktos\talk 21:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jose

WHO IS ARTHURE JOSE? I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF HIM NOR HEARD HIM MENTIONED AS AN AUTHORITY ON INDIGENOUS LINGUISTICS/ARCHAEOLOGY/ANTHROPOLOGY - OR ANYTHING ELSE. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.25 (talk • contribs) .

  • See Jose's ADB entry for those too lazy to do any research. Why should his authority be any less credible than Sir John Heaton (ADB entry), ie Heaton, J.H. 1984, The Bedside Book of Colonial Doings, Angus and Robertson, Sydney, published in 1879 as Australian Dictionary of Dates containing the History of Australasia from 1542 to May, 1879 which the anon keeps citing? Was --Golden Wattle talk 22:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Artkos shows a lack of research skill.

Archaeology is a specialist field so for Jose to be credible, he would need to be an archaeologist and he was not mentioned when I did archaeology at uni, nor is even one of his papers on any of the 9 Australian university databases I have, or have had, access to.

In contrast, to collect a dictionary of dates such as Heaton has authored, is not much different to what happens here. Anyone can do it as Heaton did. However, getting those dates and small snippets of info from credible sources, and correct, is important. Heatons compilation checks with numerous other sources so is a very very very credible one in Australian (heritage, cultural, scientific, literary, etc etc) Studies, (that I am qualifed to comment on).

Dearest artkos, skill teaches 'conceptual analysis' or context.

Lack of academic, interpretive and analytic skill results in content being used inappropriately.

The nonsense caused by dumb ninnys here is annoying.

I checked Jose. Yes, he is a historian.

However, Jose has no archaeology quals and is not Indigenous, so can only comment as a historian which means his comments re archaeological aspects of indigenous culture or cultural aspect, are those of an unqualifed to comment person. Given I have arch quals plus some specialist as well as academic indigenous quals, I am qualified to comment on Jose's lack of quals to comment.

Get it?

Historians just as historians, leave huge gaps in all the other stuff. Bit like getting getting the local welder to do a bone graft.