Talk:Winnipeg/Archive 1

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Archive 1
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Contents

Winnie the Pooh

I plan to remove the redirect from Winnipeg and make it a disambiguation. Winnipeg is also the name of a bear on whom the Disney character Winnie the Pooh is named. Jay 16:18, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It didn't make sense to make Winnipeg a disambig page as there are 100+ articles that link to it. It would make sense to redirect Winnipeg, Manitoba to Winnipeg. Jay 05:07, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Winnipeg the bear was named after Winnipeg the city in any case,so a disambiguation page is not really needed. A redirect from Winnipeg to Winnipeg, Manitoba would be a good idea though. -- Derek Ross

Winnie the Pooh is not a "Disney character", no more than is Snow White Leonard G. 20:07, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Derek. And anyway, nobody calls the bear "Winnipeg the Pooh" --Munchkinguy 21:02, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Disambiguation would make sense if it possibly had in brackets stated what Winnie the Pooh was. But Winnipeg is the bear's -real- name. So, I vote for a disambiguation page. Disinclination 03:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

For the sake of political correctness...

For the sake of political correctness... Please "disambiguate" the minority groups "chink" and "indian". Since 'Native' is already mentioned, I assume East Indian is the group in question? "Chink" is just rude. Daryl S.

Of all the Wikipedia articles for Canada'a major cities this one is the least detailed and the least flattering. Even the article for Hamilton, Ontario is far superior and has detailed history and even a section on the city's streets. Toronto has separate articles for each of its streetcar lines and major streets and highways! I plan to add a section on the physical description of the city in the near future. The article needs improvement, definitely!

Golden Boy and Legislative Building

The original link to the "Golden Boy" was to a Wikipedia article about a Japanese anime series titled "Golden Boy." This has nothing to do with the statue on the top of the Manitoba Legislative Building. I changed this to an external link to Manitoba Provincial Government (Canada) page talking a bit about the Golden Boy, with pictures and information about its restoration.

I also added an external link to the Manitoba Government's Legislature page so people could see a photograph of the Legislative Building.

Renaming of City

I removed the sentence that Winnipeg was named in 1835 because I am quite confident that Winnipeg was not officially used as a name in 1835, rather Fort Garry or Red River Settlement would have been used. The Post Office only officially adopted the name in 1876. --CWood 02:38, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Winnipeg did not come into general usage until the 1860's when a general store opened at the corner of the Portage Trail and the Selkirk Highway (Portage & Main). It was distinct as it was close to one mile away from the heart of the Red River Settlement which was Upper Fort Garry (near the Forks). Winnipeg was incorporated as a city in 1873 and had at the time fewer than 2,000 people. Its original boundaries were the Red River on the east, Aberdeen Avenue on the north, Mc Phillips Street, Notre Dame Avenue, and Maryland Street (then called Boundary Road) on the west and the Assiniboine River on the south. The post office was clearly quite late in making the change. Prior to 1876 letters were postmarked Assiniboia not Fort Garry or Red River Settlement as indicated above.


Architecture?

In the Architechture (sorry if I spelled it wrong) section, it says:

"The City of Winnipeg is located at the junction of the Red and Assiniboine Rivers, almost at the geographic centre of North America. The name Winnipeg has its origin in the Cree Indian name given to the lake 40 miles north, meaning "Win", muddy, "nipee", water."

Should this really be there?

I agree - I think that this should be removed - I'm going to do this and see if I can find a new home for this info somewhere in the rest of the page. CWood 23:30, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps it should go in the introdution. --Munchkinguy 21:07, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Corey Koskie???

Corey Koskie is from Anola,Manitoba not Winnipeg. If this is talking about Manitoban athletes, Carmen,Manitobas Ed Belfour and Russel,Manitobas Theoren Fleury should be included, among others.

Find out who added that one, and leave a message on their talk page. --Munchkinguy 20:02, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) I added it --Puckeater8 03:08, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Anola is 14 miles from city limits, but I believe it's in the Metropolitan area now.

Mondragon et al?

The Arts and culture section seems a little odd. Why spend a whole paragraph describing the contents of 91 Albert Street? Should that be cut down? Or should we add a whole list of local businesses?

That was just plain spam for a block of businesses, not "arts and culture". I've removed it. —Michael Z. 2005-03-25 19:54 Z

Temperature

According to BBC weather data[1], Winnipeg's annual average temperature (adding up each month's low and dividing by 12) is -5.49 Celsius. The same number[2] for Irkutsk is -6.92 C. Novosibirsk may also be colder[3], and there may well be others. Niteowlneils 19:41, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why would you use lows to calculate an annual average temperature? Daily lows are usually reached just before sunrise at a time when most people are sleeping. More explanatory to use daily maximums or daily average temperatures. Using your system of measurement the average annual temperature in Phoenix, Arizona is a chilly 13.4C. That temperature hardly reflects the typical average temperatures in that city, or how people would experience the local weather. Winnipeg's overall average temperature calculated using daily average temperatures, ie. the mean between the maximum and minimums is +2.6 degrees celsius.

Average daily temp. for Winnipeg over the year given by Environment Canada is 2.62 Celsius [4] Average daily temp. for Irkutsk given by what looks to be a Russian website is -1.08 Celsius [5]

I'd thought the population of Irkutsk was below 500,000. Well, actually, when I'd heard the "coldest city in the world" trope it was. I stand corrected!

Irkutsk, Yekaterinburg, and Novosibirsk (all in Russia) are all colder than Winnipeg. Moscow's average winter maximum (Dec, Jan, Feb) is slightly warmer at -7C vs. -10.7C for Winnipeg. For comparison purposes, London's is 6.7C and New York City's is 3.7C.

I have added the average temperatures for Winnipeg for each month of the year. The original description of Winnipeg's climate makes the city sound like it's Winter in Siberia year-round. The temperatures give a climate picture in an objective rather than subjective manner. Yes, the winters are cold, but -10.7C for an average daytime temperature temperature during the winter months is far from bone chilling and record setting. As far as this "arctic trough" nonsense I didn't remove it, but it would be more accurate to simply inidcate that there are no nearby mountain ranges or bodies of water to ameliorate the winter climatic conditions and that Winnipeg lies exposed to numerous weather systems including bitterly cold Arctic high pressure systems. By the way, I have known temps in excess of +10C in both December and February,+8C in January, and temps well above 20C in both November and March.

I think the original idea of "coldest city" nickname was "coldest capital city" The idea of "bone chilling cold" is realative. I have friends all over the country and when I tell them the daily temps. durring the winter I almost dont need a phone to hear their scream. I've lived in places where it never gets colder than -10C and comapre that to a -40C +wind cold snap and there is no comparison. Thats where the idea of "bone chilling cold" comes from I think --Captain433180 02:08, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

No one is denying that the winter and even late autumn and early spring can be very cold, but the original text led one to have the impression that it was bitterly cold throughout the entire winter, which I think is a false impression as there are many winter days when conditions are actually quite moderate. In any event, this has now been corrected. Also, coldest capital city? Where, Yellowknife is colder than Winnipeg. Are you saying coldest provincial capital? This is an encyclopaedia, so let's stick to what is FACT, one of the coldest large cities is not misleading.--142.161.176.147 17:42, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

So why is Winnipeg known across Canada as WINTERPEG? It has a richly deserved reputation as the coldest, most miserable place in Canada in winter, and the hottest, most miserable place in Canada during the summer, due to its infestation with all sorts of different bugs, and its mid 30s high humidity temps. Give me Ontario any day, its been 10C here today, and all our snow is gone!! 05:18, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Southern Ontario has far more humid, and miserable summers, compounded with smog. Last time I was in Algonquin Park I got eaten alive by mosquitos. Where are you, on the 30th floor of an apartment tower? Yes, all Canada has had a very mild winter in 2005-2006, even in Winnipeg the average January maximum was -3C. As to the "reputation", the fact that it exists, I agree, "richly deserved", disagree. Give me Manitoba any day, I like the four seasons, and to me -3C and lots of snow is excellent for winter sports. Enjoy looking at your brown grass, and get your oxygen mask ready for the summer.--207.161.47.89 01:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It isn't much different here. Now, add mosquitos, those worms that hang from trees, and this odd infestation of wasps recently, and its horrible to go outside, depending on what section of town you live in. St. Vital isn't so bad, but places like St. Boniface and other parts have a horrible infestation of mosquitos and worms. Disinclination 03:43, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I've hardly seen a mosquito all summer and I spend several hours per day outdoors, at least. There have been more wasps than usual this year but they generally don't bother you unless you are eating something they are interested in. Also, don't panic and swat them and they won't bite! I think the point was that Winnipeg's climate is not as severe as the reputation would lead some to believe. In fact in Calgary today it was only 7 degrees (45F) with a forecast for snow tonight. In Winnipeg, by contrast, it was sunny and 30 degrees (86F), just like yesterday and the day before; the day before that I was at the beach, and the water was gorgeous. Imagine that, in mid-September! --207.161.33.36 05:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the wasps were nasty this year. But are the above calculations from the start of this section factoring in Wind Chill as well? It just seems that 10.7 is off way too much for me. Last winter, I remember it being alot colder. What year is that average taken from? Edit: Whoops. I forgot to click the cite. That seems to be pre-2000, though. It seems to have gotten alot colder in these past few years, tho.Disinclination 04:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The average winter maximum temperature, that being the average daily maximum for the months of December, January, and February, is -10.7 degrees Celsius. No this does not include windchill. No calculation of average temperature will include windchill (or humidex in the summer months). Just for the record last year was a mild winter. The average highs were as follows: December (-5.4C), January (-3.3C), February (-10.2C), for an overall winter average of -6.2C or about 4.5 degrees warmer than normal. The normals are calculated by data collected every year up to and including 2005, they are not pre-2000 and in contrast to what you have asserted, the winters (and the climate in general) have in fact been getting milder in the last decade or so. Since 1990, only the winters of 1995-1996 and 1996-1997 have been normal or below average. My source is Environment Canada (www.ec.gc.ca) for the Winnipeg International Airport station. Note as well that the airport in generally colder than central city locations. I would also suggest that as we get older we feel cold (and heat) more intensely. When I was a child the cold did not seem to bother me but now anything below -10C (or 0C should it be windy) feels bitterly cold and very uncomfortable; is this because adults tend to bundle up less as well? Also for those who say "there is usually snow on the ground at Hallowe'en", this is patently false. The last time this occurred was 1996, in fact it is far more likely to rain, the average temperature for 31 October being 7C(45F). --209.115.235.79 23:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

If you go to this chart for October, check all of the boxes and redraw, you'll see that on Hallowe’en the average high and low are about 5° and -5°—easily cold enough to let snow stay on the ground overnight, and probably remain for a few days if it gets colder than average.
I think many of us feel colder as we get older because we don't spend as much time outside walking to school or playing. One gets used to the cold after a few days, but if you drive everywhere and only play at the office, you'll keep being wimpy about the cold.
Winterpeg's reputation must come from several factors, including:
  • A dry, still -20° day in Winnipeg might be more comfortable than a humid, windy minus five degrees in Halifax, but think of how awful that figure must look to the suffering Haligonian who reads it on the TV news.
  • It does stay cold enough for snow to remain on the ground continuously over much of the winter (or it used to), so it keeps piling up and looks very wintery.
  • It is far from everywhere, and in the middle of the flat prairie, adding to the impression of a northern wasteland in Canadians' imaginations (even though we're on the edge of the cozy boreal forest).
 —Michael Z. 2006-10-13 00:53 Z
Im out for an hour or more outside a day. So Im not 'wimpy'. It was also on Global yesterday that snow has come 3 weeks earlier, and Im pretty sure that it will remain snowy until Halloween. I guess time will tell. Disinclination 04:33, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The average temperatures for 31 October are high 6.5C (44F) and low -3.5C (26F). The mean is 1.5C (35F)which is above freezing. By my calculation having reviewed the climate statistics for the last 67 years, Winnipeg has about a one in ten chance of having snow on the ground at Hallowe'en. Again, the last time this occurred was in 1996. The snow that Winnipeg received on the night of the 11th of October 2006 was early but not all that unusual as we had snow in 2005 in October and there have been occasions where snow has fallen in late September. The snow this year stayed on the ground for less than 24 hours. Who knows what the weather will bring in the next few weeks. It is forecast to remain below normal for at least the next 10 days followed by a warming trend. I remember mowing the lawn in a t-shirt with a temperature of 17C (63F) on Halloween five or so years ago. Winnipeg's reputation as Winterpeg stems, I think, mainly from the fact that in the past, when Canada's major cities consisted only of Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Winnipeg, and Ottawa, Winnipeg was by far the coldest, and the fact that Winnipeggers when traveling elsewhere have a rather perverse habit of boasting about how cold the winters are here. We do have to endure the coldest winters of any large English-speaking city in the world however some of the exaggerations can become rather annoying, such as the winters are nine months long and it is 40 below for eight months solid. In fact the winters typically are four months long, and as indicated above the average winter maximum is -10.7C, which is cold, but far from 40 below.--209.115.235.79 23:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, alright. I take it back, anyways. All the wind blew it away. Does anyone know what the average wind speed that occured over the last week? I heard it reached 90 km/h. Disinclination 19:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Population

This article says about Winnipeg: It is the province's largest city, with 702,400 people (Statistics Canada, 2004 est.) in the metropolitan area. Unfortunatley, the "Winnipeg metropolitan area" that Statistics Canada talks about includes Selkirk, Manitoba and Springfield, Manitoba, along with all sorts of other towns that are not actually in Winnipeg. I'm trying to find a better statistic, but so far, no luck. --Munchkinguy 22:44, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Using "city proper" statistics dilutes the meaningfulness of the article. Yes, technically the City of Winnipeg has X number of inhabitants, but are most people outside of the area going to consider places like Selkirk anything other than neighbourhoods? One could say New York City has 8 million people, but that masks the 20-million megalopolis surrounding it. Using Metropolitan statistics gives everyone a better idea just how large of a city it is. Mincing words and using legal technicalities is the place of lawyers and public administrators. --Alexwcovington (talk) 23:00, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

No, this is very important. I found the statistic. Winnipeg has a population of 619,544 according to page two of City of Winnipeg Census Data. That's a difference of 82,846 people. And I don't think the people of Selkirk would like to be told told that they live in Winnipeg. --Munchkinguy 23:07, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

No one is saying that. But Selkirk is a part of the Winnipeg Metropolitan area.

Compromise: We could have both statistics... --Munchkinguy 23:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Selkirk is positively not a part of Winnipeg, not a neighborhood; there's a good 20 km of rather open countryside between the two sets of city limits. People who live in Selkirk can comfortably go for weeks at a time without visiting Winnipeg, though there are also a fair number of commuters, of course. There's even a little bit of hostility between the two cities; when Selkirk was having trouble getting enough water for their municpal system, they used to pump river water...which is downstream from the outlets of the City of Winnipeg. --Wtshymanski 01:15, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Quite open countryside? Anyone who has driven north on Highway 9 or Provincial Road 204 (Henderson Highway)between Winnipeg and Selkirk will be able to see that there is fairly continuous residential and commercial development along and around the entire stretches of both routes. The entire region comprises numerous bedroom communities for Winnipeg.

I agree. The larger figure from Statistics Canada is for the CMA (census metropolitan Area), which goes far beyond the city or even what you would call "bedroom communities". Selkirk is not a neighbourhood, a suburb or a even a town; it's a separate city. The CMA includes Grand Marais, on the edge of Grand Beach, about an hour's drive after you completely leave Winnipeg's city limits, the perimeter highway, and any built-up areas. By the way, Winnipeg's city limits are pretty much in open countryside. Headingley and East St Paul/West St Paul might be considered satellite communities, but they're not suburbs, and Selkirk is much farther. And I don't think the CMA is the same thing as the commonly-used term "metropolitan Winnipeg".

FYI, CMA stands for Census Metropolitan Area, that term and Metropolitan Winnipeg are used interchangably to mean the same thing. Simply because there are some rural areas in a Metropolitan area does not remove them from the area. Every CMA in Canada without fail is comprised in some part of rural areas.

The figures for Census Division #11 might be a useful second figure, for considering population growth. It includes the Rural Municipality of Headingley, which used to be part of Winnipeg. But using the figure for the CMA is not a compromise; it's just plain misleading.

The Winnipeg Census Metropolitan Area does not include Grand Marais, however the Capital Region does and no population figure is mentioned for the Capital Region. I would estimate it to be in the neighbourhood of 850,000. As is typical of Manitobans you're missing the point completely. A metropolitan area is a region that has strong economic and social interconnection between its various communities. Thus Selkirk, East and West St.Paul, Springfield, Lorette, etc. are clearly part of Metropolitan Winnipeg as most of the residents in those communities work and shop in the City of Winnipeg. East and West St. Paul are clearly suburban municipalities. Have you been there? How is Bird's Hill different from Charleswood or North Kildonan? Indeed some of the St.Paul's lie within the Perimeter Highway. Yes, Selkirk is a separate city, and one could stay in Selkirk without ever needing to venture into Winnipeg, but Oakville,Ont. is also a separate city with it's own amenities, yet it is clearly still a part of the GTA (Toronto Metropolitan Area). Similarly, Surrey, B.C. is also a separate city (and still has some rural areas within it) but you'd be laughed out the door if you suggested Surrey is not a part of Greater Vancouver! The Metropolitan population should always be used as the central city population seldom gives an accurate portrayal of the size of an urban area. Would anyone say that Vancouver is a city of half a million or Minneapolis a city of 350,000? Of course not, this would be "just plain misleading". Vancouver has two million people and Minneapolis nearly three million; the figures for the metropolitan areas are used. Using your logic Winnipeg is larger than Minneapolis and St.Paul combined. Anyone who has travelled there would know that this is absurd; that the statistic makes no real sense. Again, when speaking of population USE METROPOLITAN AREA STATISTICS. The City population is for use at City Hall for budget determinations, etc.--207.161.47.89 01:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

To see the extents of the area, select an area in the pop-up and click "map" on the StatsCan page. You might also get an idea of the urban limit looking at the Google map (click "satellite" to see the farm fields). —Michael Z. 2005-05-17 04:16 Z

Sorry that I wasn't clear before, but theCity of Winnipeg Census Data sheet contains population information of only Winnipeg, so it can be used as a source for the population. For more information (including the population of the CMA) see this site --Munchkinguy 19:06, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


West St. Paul is part of winnipeg. East St. Paul is'nt. i agree with city school district lines. in te st. paul area within one block kids on one street are traveling 45 minutes in one diirection while kids on the other are traveling 45 minutes south

Neither East or West St.Paul are part of the City of Winnipeg; both are rural municipalities in their own right. Both, however, are part of Metropolitan Winnipeg, and are included in the population figures as they are essentially low density suburbs of Winnipeg. Excepting the slightly larger lot sizes, Bird's Hill (East St.Paul) or Middlechurch (West St.Paul) differ little from much of North Kildonan, Charleswood, or other suburban locations. This is the definition of metropolitan area in Wikipedia's Metropolitan Area page: "A metropolitan area is a large population center consisting of a large city and its adjacent zone of influence, or of several neighboring cities or towns and adjoining areas, with one or more large cities serving as its hub or hubs." Winnipeg serves as the large city in this context and East and West St.Paul are the adjacent zones of influence. The fact that some kids travel one direction to go to school while others travel in a different direction is absolutely irrelevant. Note, once again, that St.Andrews (Lockport), Selkirk, Stonewall, etc. are all part of Metropolitan Winnipeg as they are socially and economically tied to Winnipeg, they are all within Winnipeg's zone of influence. Also from Wikipedia's Metropolitan Area Page: "Census population of a metro area is not the city population. However, it better demostrations the population of the city. Los Angeles may only have a city population of 3,000,000, but have a metro population of over 12 million because of its connection to Hollywood, Long Beach, Anaheim, and many other sub-cities." Hmmmm.....It's really not a terribly difficult concept. --206.45.164.161 14:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

A. E. van Vogt

I fixed the red link, but can anyone verify where he was born? One reference [6] says on a farm south of Winnipeg, and moved at the age of 10. Any van Vogt scholars, please advise. --Wtshymanski 30 June 2005 19:06 (UTC)

This page [7] looks pretty plausible and says vanVogt was born near Morden - so I've moved the entry. --Wtshymanski 30 June 2005 19:33 (UTC)

I think is ridiculous to use 619,000 as the population figure. If you looka t the Vancouver site they put both Vacnouver and its surrounding. If they simply used Vancouver the population would be listed as 545,671. Why are you argung with Stats Cans figures. Thats ridiculous

No one is arguing, that's why both statistics are in the article; city proper and metropolitan area.--207.161.47.89 01:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)