Talk:William Rodriguez
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I hope you dont afd this guy, im sure it will be hard to claim his nn...--Striver 14:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Do you have any real (as in not Alex Jones nonsense) sources for this?--Jersey Devil 20:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
- Alex is real. --Striver 01:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Strange edit
There is no citation on where specifically Rodriguez has altered his story from 2001 and 2002 from 2006 (even though the article declares it as if it were fact. This leads me to believe that the 'registered users' are indeed the people vandalizing the page. Rodriguez himself makes this claim, and you can see this evidenced in the following video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXU4IBSFnfM As a point of reference that is not cited here, making me challenge it's neutrality is the simple fact that a number of witnesses corroborated Rodriguez, including the building manager. This is easily found in a simple Google search, under API, and other easily accessed sources. The fact none are referenced, again leads us to the easy conclusion that there is no neutrality in this article, but instead, it is intended as a hit piece to the Truth movement. You might wonder why the fact that he was directly responsible for the saving of over 500 lives takes second seat to the 'controversy' that he supposedly changed his story, yet you can't even be bothered to cite when it happened! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.126.54 (talk) 18:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean with this? --Striver 17:52, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
If you are looking for truth I expect you will leave the truth that he changed his story shortly after becoming a media star in this bio. He did not always say there were bombs in the building and the "TRUTH" should not be edited out of his bio.
I'm not even including the fact that he changed his story after media attention and his law suit. You people like to look for motives for the government to lie but never anyone else. Is Walter and/or Chavez paying him to change his story? Did he change his story to sue? These are questions which should be raised as someone seeking truth.
- Im sorry, but i dont get it. could you be more specific? If he truly did change his story, that would be notable (if sourced, no OR), but i fail to see how he changed his story. Could you give specific references? Thanks --Striver 14:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
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- If he changed his story and if that fact is not in the article, then the article is completely worthless. Hi There 17:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
If you can prove he changed his story then present the evidence of it. However, there are countless other testimonies that agree with explosive noises coming from the buildings. His claim is well supported by other testimony; there is little reason to doubt it. Kevin77v 15:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
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- You may or may not think this is it:
"William Rodriguez worked on the basement level of the north tower and was in the building when the first plane struck his building.
"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said"
From CNN http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/ IceHunter 18:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
- You may or may not think this is it:
Makes me cringe. Someone is pooping stinky crap because he or she works for the disinformation agency. Get out of here, disinfo agent, you're reaking up the place! No one appreciates your pro-war, 911 lying crap. Take it somewhere else.
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- Shouldn't nonsense from disturbed anons like that be deleted? IceHunter 18:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I have a friend who believes not only in 9/11 as a conspiracy, but also JFK, the Moon Landings and a couple of other high profile situations all under the guise of State subterfuge. I think that there is a case of mass hysteria that goes on and people are gullible to the point of beleiving anything that makes them feel that 'the other' is to blame.Ricoyote 01:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] fact
The lines is already sourced, see the link at the end of the line? --Striver 15:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] fact error in article
I want to submit a notification about a fact error in the first paragraph of the William Rodriguez article. It says that he alleges government involvement and coverup concerning 9/11. As a reporter who interviewed him and asked him specific questions about his beleifs when he came to my community of Eau Claire, Wis., I can say that is only half true. Mr. Rodriguez specifically told me he doesn't necesarily think the government was involved in the attacks. He does think officials are withholding considerable information, and that they may be complicit in the attacks by failing to take warnings or intelligence seriously. But he specifically said he doesn't think there was a specific government conspiracy related to the attack's cause, even if the government is withholding information and the media is failing to expose that. It's easy to assume that he thinks the government is specifically involved, since he is a part of the truth movement, segments of which do beleive that. Many people around him have said such things, and his words could be taken to mean that. But as of Friday, April 20, he said he doesn't think the government was involved in executing or organizing the attacks. It's an important distinction. I can supply my news article chronicling this if need be.
Brian Reisinger —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.188.246.98 (talk) 21:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
The government is too big of a body to enact such a conspiracy. Too many people would know the secret and it would soon get out. If the conspiracy were to hold true, then the group would have to be a "tight knit" select few who knew the "big picture" and everyone else would have to know only their job and not realize that they are even playing a role until the events unfold. After the fact, who would want to be named as the one who did it? Silence is essentially assured. The government cover-up/misinformation could easily have been created to hide the fact that the intelligence community got caught with their pants down. After all, who wants to claim that their highly prestigious organization (CIA/FBI/ATF) was completely caught unaware when they are supposed to be the best in the world? This was not a "government conspiracy" but a few people in high positions declaring war on the US to further their own interests and assure their own fortunes.208.254.130.235 (talk) 12:47, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] poor sourcing
It seems that everything in this article is sources to very marginal and questionable 9/11 conspiracy outlets.
It really lacks credibility at the moment.
HOW SO? HAVE YOU READ THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS? THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO HEARD THE SAME THING.
John McAdams —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.48.30.18 (talk) 21:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
It seems to me that "prisonplanet" and "google video" are not appropriate sources according to the Wikipedia guidelines and that perhaps the references to them in this article should be removed. Jazz2006 02:53, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
to have this whole page hijacked by jazz2006 to post a whole Rico Lawsuit, is ridiculous. How can we ban this LasherL from this?
- The RICO lawsuit section was part of the article, and I have merely added some factual content to that section. In doing so, by the way, I have merely scratched the surface of that lawsuit. Did you miss the part that tells you that the lawsuit is 237 pages long? I have simply distilled that 237 pages down into an easily digestible summary. It is hardly "posting the whole lawsuit" but it does give context and factual content to the section.
Jazz2006 00:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Plagiarism?
Not only does his biography sound like a terribly written press release, but major portions seem to be, ah, lifted from here:
http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/Rodriguez.htm
This article needs some serious work.
--John
I have seen that a page with my name has been extremely vandalized by a user named jazz2006. This person goes with the name LashL on the James Randi Foundation forums and have been attacking Mr. Rodriguez personally on their threads. It is obvious that he intents to make me look like a conspiracy nut without noting that he is not part of the 9/11 truth movement even though he have done speeches in many events by them. Also by implying libelous positions he has not have not taken or have removed himself from. With the amount of interviews he does in a week this las 6 years, it will be impossible for him to correct each one of them. Jazz2005 has actually used the same articles that Mr. Rodriguez has attacked on radio and TV to imply that he support them. Is there is anything I can do to revert to serious info and to lock the page from more vandalism?
- What are you talking about? This isn't vandalism. I have simply added factual content and context to an existing article. The documents are a matter of public record, having been filed with the court. The facts that I have posted are easily verifiable - all you have to do is follow the links and read the publicly available documents for yourself. Since you have not signed your post, I have no idea who you are or what you are talking about when you claim that my intent is to make you look like a conspiracy nut. How could I when you are an anonymous person posting on this discussion thread? And, in any event, all that I have posted are facts which are, again, easily verifiable. How on earth you think that is somehow wrong is beyond me, I'm afraid. Jazz2006 00:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Minor Change
There was an inappropriate "reference needed" following the mention of the National Hero Award. This award and the subsequent reference to the founding of an organization are both documented in the cited article from the Christian Science Monitor at the end of the sentence. Wowest 07:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- So it is. Although I didn't see it at first (note to self: get Firefox or some real browser with working search functions). — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 13:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Thank you. :-) It's nice when someone steps up and admits to an error. I had no idea who put it there, and didn't really care. ... What browser are you editing with now? Wowest 05:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
added links to Speakers Bureaus and also to International Travels. Linked to John Schroeder info on the web as well.Wtcsurvivor (talk) 09:33, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Removals
During the course of vandal patrol, I reverted an IP that was blanking referenced content without an edit summary. I thought it was plain old vandalism, so I reverted it and warned the user. They left me a note on my talk page saying that the content they were removing was "character assassination". I agreed to look at it, and when I did, I realized that there were indeed a lot of problems with the sections they had been removing. So I went through and did the best I could to remove the parts I thought were particularly bad without mangling the entire article or removing referenced content that wasn't defamatory. I probably did a pretty bad job of it, so I invite others to review my edit and fix my errors (though please don't revert me wholesale, since I made some copy edits and fixes in the same edit).
The specific problems I thought existed with the content included original arguments that seemed like they were pushing a particular point of view, as well as more mundane problems such as focusing way too much attention on tiny details. I hope folks can discuss here and come to an agreement about the material! Thanks all, delldot talk 21:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Removed American Free Press for unreliable source, Christopher Bollyn the reporter quoted was fired for writing made up stories. Rodriguez also spoke against his articles and how he changed his words around. Funny how the writer goes and quotes all the unreliable sources to fit her message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrandi (talk • contribs) 05:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- It was not me who added the AFP sources. They were added by a Rodriguez supporter a long time ago. You can check the history of the page yourself to verify that. Also, Rodriguez's trip to Venezuela was arranged by Bollyn and funded by AFP and he only distanced himself from them after public criticism for being in so tight with blatant anti-Semites. {Jazz2006 (talk) 19:39, 28 November 2007 (UTC)}
Obviously a lie from Jazz2006. Rodriguez was invited initially by AFP and instead went with Jimmy Walter who paid for the whole trip. Also Rodriguez cut ties with Bollyn due to his visit to Venezuela. Bollyn acted against Rodriguez's recomendations while speaking against zionism. Rodriguez openly called him an anti-semite and expose him as a liar. Source? Rodriguez, Walter and Bollyn himself. Jazz, do your research, email Rodriguez. Your hate is obvious. Wtcsurvivor (talk) 02:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
- Excuse me, "wtcsurvivor", or should I call you "jrandi"? You would do well to read the rules of this site and not go around calling people liars or making wild accusations such as those above. I have not told any lies whatsoever, and I harbour no "hate" for Rodriguez. You should look up the rules about editing articles without providing proper reasons and without providing proper sources. You should also look up the rules regarding "original research" and the rules regarding civility while you're at it. Jazz2006 (talk) 01:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
You are excused, should I call you Lashl? I read the rules and have stated that it is a false statement coming from you since I called Mr. Rodriguez himself, then called American Free Press and finally got an email from Jimmy walter to call the statement you posted incorrect. Have you called any of them? Wtcsurvivor (talk) 20:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
- You claim that you have read the rules, but you clearly do not comprehend them. I have made no false statements whatsoever, and your false accusations to the contrary carry no weight or substance whatsoever. Again, I suggest that you review the rules regarding civility and the rules regarding "original research" as it is blatantly apparent that you do not understand them. Jazz2006 (talk) 06:59, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Added the National Latino Pride Award with link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrandi (talk • contribs) 06:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Removed biased indications that his story changed when he joined the 9/11 truth movement. Many interviews in Spanish that does not points to his involvement later on to the movement.Wtcsurvivor 04:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The troll-guard/spam-guard should be reinstated on this page.
Obviously, it was necessary and useful, as evidenced by the recent spate of vandalism since it was lifted.
Alternatively, perhaps the page should be put up for deletion again.{Jazz2006 (talk) 06:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)}
I reiterate what I said back on November 28. This article has been bastardized beyond recognition and in violation of so many of the Wiki rules and guidelines that it has become utterly meaningless and useless. It seems pointless to waste time trying to make it accurate and meaningful when any idiot with an agenda can come along and edit it willy nilly without discussion, without providing verifiable sources, without truthful content, and without giving so much as even a wink and a nod to the Wiki rules and guidelines. Jazz2006 (talk) 01:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
You should refrain of calling members that do not agree with your POV, idiots.Wtcsurvivor (talk) 20:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
- Please point out where I called any particular member here an idiot. I am quite sure that I have not done so. My post was referring generically to "hit and run" idiots with agendas who sign up for the sole purpose of furthering their agendas, without bothering to familiarize themselves with the rules and guidelines of the site, and with total disregard for the rules and guidelines of the site. Do you not agree that such posts and such posters are a detriment to the integrity of Wikipedia as a legitimate resource? Jazz2006 (talk) 07:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Lawsuit
I think this might be better summarized into a few (2-3) paragraphs. Alternatively, a much shorter list of bullet points. I'm not sure that a long list is suitable here. --Aude (talk) 20:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- The reason for the list was actually so that the points could be easily verified at the source in light of the great length of the lawsuit. However, I agree that it is lengthy and will attempt to summarize it into a few paragraphs. {{Jazz2006 (talk) 20:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)}}
[edit] WTC Janitor?
WTC Janitor may be technically a job description, but it belittles Rodriguez' actual position, whatever it was. I find it very odd that just a "Janitor" is arranging press conferences for the state governor. Just a "Janitor" is given master keys to the entire building? It would be more accurate to state Rodriguez' actual job title and then the biography would then follow the timeline from being just a "Janitor" to whatever position he actually held on 9/11/01.208.254.130.235 (talk) 13:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, it appears that his actual position was that of a janitor. That's what Rodriguez says himself, and that is the only job title that has ever been connected to him with regard to his work at the WTC. In one part of the article that I edited a long time ago, I used the word "custodian" rather than "janitor" but I don't think that his actual job description can "belittle" him. That was his job, after all, and there is nothing wrong with being a janitor - heck, the world would run a lot less smoothly without janitors. {Jazz2006 (talk) 23:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)}
[edit] Notability
I have tried doing some cleanup, removing uncited material, etc. But, I still think this article is highly problematic (see WP:BLP) with some material not cited with good, third-party, reliable sources. Many of the sources used here are self-referential to William Rodriguez's websites or other such sources. There are some good sources, but I'm concerned that enough good sources will turn up to really make this article work, get it neutral and adequately sourced. Since this article was created, Wikipedia's policies and attitude toward biographies of living persons have evolved. Wikipedia is less accepting of biographies with marginal notability, and particularly biographies of individuals notable only for one event (even if that event is 9/11). In short, I don't think this article belongs on Wikipedia and recommend it be put up for deletion, per WP:BLP. --Aude (talk) 06:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Noted that Kate in the past tried to do a biased editing. POV has been masked many times by LashL and Kryptos. Now you do not think this belong on Wikipedia based on the fact that Mr. Rodriguez has marginal notability? Do a search on google ounder William Rodriguez 9/11 and see the hundred of thousands of hits. Not to mention the huge popularity he has in many international countries. Mr. Rodriguez is not only notable for the event of 9/11 but also on working on behalf of the vicitms, first responders, on legislation and on other disaster events not related to 9/11. As noted on the article he has been recognised as a Latino leader and has worked un tirelessly for the immigrant community. Wikipedia has many people on their biographies that have not done as much as Mr. Rodriguez wether you like it or not. Call Telemundo Network in NY, Call Univision Network in New York or Miami, call TVE (Television Espanola) call El Diario. I have, and they have only respectful words for him. Wtcsurvivor (talk) 01:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
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- Oh, please. Stop making unfounded accusations against others, already. If you have any legitimate evidence in support of your repeated spam and vandalism, cough it up already and others will be pleased to look at it. All you have done so far is spam and vandalize this article without any legitimate supporting evidence whatsoever. Frankly speaking, I think that William Rodriguez is a blatant liar and fraud and I think that is only because of Wiki's very open parameters that he is even mentioned here at all. He certainly would not garner even a footnote in a legitimate, properly resourced encyclopedia. But you don't see me editing the article to say that, do you? That's because I stick to the rules even though I think the man is an obvious liar and fraud. You should similarly stick to the rules even if you disagree with parts of the article. Frankly, you should consider yourself fortunate that the article wasn't turfed long ago - as it would have been if Wikipedia standards were not so open to baseless speculation and self-serving nonsense such as that which you have contributed to date. It's spam and vandalism such as yours that lessens the credibility of Wiki as a whole. {Jazz2006 (talk) 05:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)}
- I'm not saying he's not notable, but you've removed his initial story, and falsely claimed he speaks on "disaster management". He speaks on 9/11 conspiracy theories. The "22 floors" is completely unsourced. Some of your edits are improvements, although I fail to see why removing details of what he said, when sourced, is an improvement. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Falsely claimed he speaks on "disaster management"? Hmmm does posting articles in Spanish accepted in an English Biography? If not , please explain. Wtcsurvivor (talk) 10:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
It is obvious your rage and hate, also obvious your BPOV for everybody to see. Also demeaning that because you are a lawyer and he is a custodian, he is not in a better position to lecture on Disaster Management. Again your hate is evident.If you have a problem with the article then have it removed completely. Are we asking you to remove your personal pages on the lawsuit and Pacer? In according to the rules, now that you mentioned it, may I point to you also that if you are a member of the JREF it is also a conflict of interest. Bias. My sources are there and you just want to eliminate them. Frankly speaking you complain of him garnering footnotes but you are one of the people recognising him as part of history for good or bad. Stop your nonsense.Wtcsurvivor (talk) 06:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
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- First, I harbour no "rage" against anyone. Never have, never will. So, it's kind of silly for you to make such baseless accusations and more than silly for you to try it on as rhetoric.
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- Second, I harbour no "hatred" toward Rodriguez whatsoever, despite your very strange and unfounded accusations to the contrary.
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- Third: It appears quite obvious that you have serious issues that preclude you from being neutral and unbiased on the topic at hand.
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- Fourth: Please seek professional help. There is no shame in doing so.
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- Fifth: I make it a point not to engage with people who have serious psychiatric issues that preclude them from engaging in legitimate discussion, as doing so only seems to hurt them rather than help them. So, I will now bid you adieu, and wish you all the very best. I genuinely hope that your treatment is successful. {Jazz2006 (talk) 06:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)}
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- First, Idon't believe you on first.
- Second, your hate is obvious and your point of view as well.
- Third, I think you are talking about yourself here.
- Fourth, If I ever need it I will get it gladly, sadly your sarcasm and poking fun on anybody that do not share your views shows how bad your ego and drive is in the middle. Since you think everybody is below you. Since you think that a "janitor" like Rodriguez is incapable of training for other professions. There is shame on your comments. Like in your practice. I hope I never need a lawyer like you.
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- Fifth: I wish you get your rage and hate back in control, maybe Anger Management will help. Arrivederci LashLWtcsurvivor (talk) 07:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
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"I make it a point not to engage with people who have serious psychiatric issues..." Like your past insults to people on wikipedia, calling them "idiots" remember? Wtcsurvivor (talk) 08:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
"Frankly, you should consider yourself fortunate that the article wasn't turfed long ago " Noted again your NPOV.Wtcsurvivor (talk) 06:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- Notability is not the best word, but it's used on Wikipedia - see WP:NOTABILITY - to help guide decisions on what to include in Wikipedia. Willie Rodriguez is notable, but I think the level of notability is still marginal on the scale of things on Wikipedia. The standards for inclusion have changed as Wikipedia has matured, out of concerns for biographies of living persons. For such articles, we need to adhere to higher standards of sourcing, WP:NPOV, etc. However, this article falls well short of acceptable standards. These problems must be addressed. If they can't be, then deletion is an option of last resort. Removing sources, "citation needed" tags, and such edits are not acceptable. As well, comments above fall well short of Wikipedia's expectation that all editors remain civil, assume good faith, and adhere to acceptable standard of conduct. --Aude (talk) 11:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
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- Actually, using article in Spanish as a source is permitted. But we are less aware of what the unreliable sources are in Spanish; tabloids and press releases are just as unusable in Spanish as in English. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 13:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
- As for your latest addition, that he spoke at the Global Peace & Unity conference is sourced at that web site, although it wasn't easy to find. That he spoke twice, and who introduced him, doesn't seem to be available at the site. It may very well be accurate (I wasn't there), but we would need a source for that information. I'm not sure that entire section is notable, though. Perhaps the list of locations, but I've spoken at more math conferences than that, although only "invited" twice (there are "invited" talks and "contributed" talks) and there's little evidence that he spoke for more than 10 minutes at the Unity conference. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 14:00, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Removed POV of edit warioress Jazz2006 who went on to try to indicate not related info from John Schroeder. She forgets the page is about Rodriguez like she said in the past , in reference to edits about lawyer Phil Berg. The source is a radio show and it is available on this page.
Re-added the sorced material of International Bureaus, a quick translation from those pages will indicate that he is doing speeches of motivation. at least for the companies mentioned in the Countries sourced.Wtcsurvivor (talk) 04:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
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- What are you talking about? It wasn't me who added anything about John Schroeder. I simply reverted the edits that you made to restore it the prior versions by Aude and Arthur Rubin. You really need to calm down, read carefully, and edit even more carefully. {Jazz2006 (talk) 23:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)}
[edit] Protected
Due to recent edit-warring, this page has been protected for a week. Please take the time to come to a consensus on what should and should not be included. You can continue editing once the protection expires; use {{editprotected}} here to request an urgent edit to the page, or make a post at WP:RFPU if you come to a consensus before the protection expires. Stifle (talk) 15:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] "Key of Hope" ,saving 15 people and memorial
Could somebody add "Key of Hope", saving 15 people and memorial etc, if they know about this stuff. Chendy (talk) 23:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Minor Edit- He stated on the CNN link provided "We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off." clearly establishing 2 events. we should not indicate it is a fireball since it creates a NPOV.Sharphdmi (talk) 09:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)