Talk:William Paley

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[edit] comments

Does anyone have an arguement against William Paley? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.30.24.249 (talk • contribs) 09:12, 3 May 2004 (UTC).

What's interesting about "design" arguments are the implications on time. A "good' design points the time arrow forward and allows for an increase in entropy. Reductionist suggest everything is the result of chance mechanism, resulting in entropy decreasing. Likewise with general evolution, that is evolution of Kind, complexity increases with no explaination of system architecture authorship.

To exist, the complexity of the universe must have had a creator. However, one could argue that the creator himself must have been created, as he himself is complex. Therefore, there is an everlasting paradox; who created the creator of creator, etc? This then leads to the idea that the (original) creator cannot be all powerful, because he himself was created. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.249.155.242 (talk • contribs) 09:02, 9 November 2004 (UTC).

Paley's work fascinated Darwin, which he did not concur with. However the above suggestion that the creator was created is a fallacy because in monotheism God by definition is eternal and uncreated. To ask who created the creator involves the fallacy of the eternal regress. This problem was posed by Bertrand Russell and was answered by Frederick Copleston, and also by Alvin Plantinga. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.30.180.218 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC).

The assertion that the complexity of the universe must have had a creator is an argument from personal incredulity (as is every other creationist argument), so Paley's argument is illogical on its face. Microtonal...(Put your head on my shoulder) 19:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

A religious argument cannot be judged on whether it is logical. Rather, the question is what it inspired. Belief in a God that designed the universe is not necessarily the same thing Intelligent Design means today. The crucial question is whether his philosophy stayed within religion, or whether like today it tried to work its way into science. By the way, belief in a Creator does not in itself constitute Creationism. It depends on whether he was simply thinking outside of science or whether he was denying specific scientific claims. Please see http://www.religioustolerance.org for further information. (I have no involvement with the production of this site. I am merely someone who found it and posted a small message on the forum.) Collin239 08:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• There are numerous, see Teleological argument Sam Hayes 22:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The Watchmaker analogy is not at all a logical argument, since it assumes arbitrarily that there must be an uncreated creator. It is an argument, yes, but of the aesthetical variety, not logical. Luis Dantas 16:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This page should discuss the article not the merits of the subject. -- SECisek 18:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quote

In more modern times, William Paley popularized the design argument with his great book, Natural Theology, first published in 1802, profoundly influencing the English speaking world of his day—even including Charles Darwin! The book began with a detailed description of the "irreducible complexity" of a functioning watch, noting that even the most rabid skeptic would acknowledge that the watch—or at least its prototype—must have been designed and made by a skilled watchmaker. Just so, he argued persuasively, the much more complex universe required a universe-maker. These themes of intelligent design are compellingly developed at great length in Paley's 402-page book. [1]