Talk:William McMahon
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[edit] Image orientation
The Wikipedia Manual of Style says: "Articles with a single picture are encouraged to have that picture at the top of the article, right-aligned, but this is not a hard and fast rule. Portraits with the head looking to the right should be left-aligned (looking into the article)."
That's why I changed Billy to the left - it looks better. Pete 11:18, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Eric's edits
TIRED OF... Surely 'becomed disillusioned' is more accurate and felicitious 'tired of.'.
Further, Im not sure what 'a homosexual' is. As a noun its is too vague whilst 'homosexuality' is a direct and accurate description.
TIRED OF...2 As a fact, he had three children which clearly places him outside of the category of 'homosexual'. Thus I belive there were rumours of his 'homosexuality'. which is far more accurate And further the phrase 'tired of.' at the end of a sentence is ugly: 'grown disillusoned' is, as Ive stated before, more accurate and better language.
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- If you're not sure what a homosexual is, I suggest you get out more.
- Oscar Wilde was married with children too. There is no necessary contradiction.
- In any case, the article refers to the content of the rumours, not the facts. I have no idea if McMahon was homosexual. I do know that he was widely rumoured to be, and that's what the article says.
- My main problem with your edits, however, is that that they are nearly always mis-spelled and ungrammatical, and add little of value. I suggest that you find a topic in which you have some expertise in and write about it, and leave other articles alone. Adam 06:08, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
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- Moreover, Eric, the effect of your edits is to completely change the sentence meaning. By writing "his homosexuality" you are implying that he was, without doubt, homosexual. This was never substantiated. And I suggest you read the last sentence of the last paragraph properly, too.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 06:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
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- I might add, however, that I am not opposed to changing "a government the electorate had grown tired of" to "a government the electorate had grown/become disillusioned (or some synonym) with".
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"Disillusioned" is a dreadful journalist's cliche, and implies that the electorate was previously in a state of illusion, which is an opinion for which no evidence has been produced. The fact is that in 1972 the electorate was simply tired of the Liberals, and I used that phrase quite deliberately. Adam 06:38, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
- Then I relent. I am not fond of the word "disillusioned", but I did, to an extent, agree that "tired of" sounded infelicitous. Now I fear I've added fuel to the flame. Sorry, --Cyberjunkie | Talk 06:43, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Adam. - Aaron Hill 11:44, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
Then please rvt his last edit - I am over the limit. Adam 12:12, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
- I support a revert.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Rumours again
The following ancedote is somewhat relevant to the discussion of McMahon's sexuality.
From The Bulletin magazine, 09/07/2005
The dishonorable member By Tony Wright
"Billy McMahon was much given to nakedness, too: former senior public servants recall McMahon when PM in the early 1970s would rove the men’s dressing rooms at the old squash courts in Manuka. Wearing not a stitch, he was in the habit of approaching other men and virtually demanding they engage in long, often meaningless conversations. He seemed not to know the meaning of private space, according to one who always felt there was a peculiar nature to the approaches. The only newspaper report was a picture of McMahon with a black eye, which he said occurred in a game when he was hit by an opponent’s racquet."
This is not the first time I've read stories of his behaviour at the courts. According to one old journo he used to hang back until most people were gone and then lurk round.
I will continue to revert vulgar gossip about dead people from disreputable rags like the (current) Bulletin. The article says all that needs to be said about the political relevance of McMahon's personal life. Adam 12:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Tony Wright is a reputable journalist and The Bulletin is hardly a 'disreputable rag' -- as you, if you are an Australian, would well know. A extremely facile comment. (Where would that place Wikipedia -- below pond slime, I expect.) The quote is also hardly "vulgar gossip"! (Such sensitivity suggests either dowager prudery, or that it could be a little too close to home for you.) Homosexuality can be extremely difficult to substantiate in historical figures. Reports such as this of transgressive behavior can be the best one can do, and therefore have their place...especially when heterosexuality is taken as a given and sustantiation is never demanded. The Bulletin report is not gossip: it's reporting direct observations. Perhaps mention could be made of the Melbourne "Sunday Observor" tabloid's notorious front page of the 70s with its picture of McMahon in a white suit and the banner headline "Billy Is A Poof!" The jocularity certainly demonstrates the commonality of the rumor. -- TJ
I don't dispute the rumours - I wrote the original version of this article which mentioned the rumours and their political significance. There is however no direct evidence that McMahon was in fact homosexual or bisexual. These rumours were frequently circulated about Liberal politicians as a political tactic (this was at a period before the left had embraced gay rights). From the point of view of McMahon's political biography, the only relevant fact is that the rumours were circulated. The truth of the matter, even if it could be known (which it can't) is not relevant. The Sunday Observer headline, by the way, was in fact: "BILL'S NOT A POOF!" and was a report of Sonia McMahon's denial of the rumours. Anonymous editors should check their facts before skating on such thin ice. Adam 11:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I was wrong, you're absolutely correct about the headline. And since it's probably the nadir of the media mockery that accompanied McMahon in his latter days, it's almost worthy of a mention. -- TJ
[edit] McMahon and free trade
It's important to note that while McMahon had "differences" with others over protectionism he was not a tarrif buster like Whitlam etc. PMA 11:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually I think in private he was, but of course the Bush Socialist Party had the Liberals by the gonads, as they still do today, which is why we have no bananas in our shops. Adam 12:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Gay haunting
We say McMahon was "haunted" by rumours about his sexuality. What exactly does this mean, and what is the source for this? I think the relevant fact is that there were rumours; whether he was personally haunted by them is not for a POV-free zone like Wikipedia to say.
On a slightly related matter, the late David Widdup campaigned against McMahon in Lowe in 1972 (I think). His slogan was "Vote for the acknowledged homosexual candidate!". JackofOz 13:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- "haunted by rumours..." is, I think, just a figure of speech, in the sense that the rumours every now and then surfaced and (perhaps) caused him political damage. I agree it would be good if it was reworded. Rocksong 12:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
