Talk:Will Geer

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[edit] Bisexual

Is there a source for Will Geer being bisexual? I hadn't heard that one before. 23skidoo 23:40, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

He was gay — it just took him a while to come out (since it was a fairly unforgiving kind of time). Mike H (Talking is hot) 02:05, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Again, is there a source for Will Geer being bisexual? It is nowhere in the article and there is no source for the claim. Thenewdeal87 15:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I am removing all mention of this until it is sourced. TruthCrusader 21:10, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted the page back for two reasons: 1. The person who provided the 'source' is unregistered. 2. The source http://www.glbtq.com/ does not list ITS source for making the claim Geer was bi-sexual. All it is doing is making the claim without providing any hard verifiable evidence other than the claim itself. TruthCrusader 11:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

"The person who provided the 'source' is unregistered."

....So what? That has no bearing on anything. 86.42.124.92 13:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
The assertion that Hay and Geer were lovers has been reprinted widely, especially in articles about Hay:
  • "Always a leftist politically, Hay was further radicalized when he became lovers with the actor Will Geer; both eventually joined the Communist Party and agitated publicly for various radical causes." -Harry Hay: The Gay Visionary; REVIEWED BY, BOB THOMPSON. San Francisco Chronicle . San Francisco, Calif.: Dec 2, 1990. pg. 5
  • "Hay credits a young actor whom he became lovers with in the early 1930s as being his political mentor. Together, Hay and Will Geer (later Grandpa Walton on "The Waltons") journeyed north to participate in the seminal 1934 strike, which shut down San Francisco for days and energized a generation of labor activists." Ever the Warrior / Gay rights icon Harry Hay has no patience for assimilation; Dan Levy, Chronicle Staff Writer. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Jun 23, 2000. pg. 8
  • "Radical Faeries recognise no leaders, but acknowledge that they were probably brought into being by Harry Hay, who founded the original gay rights group,the Mattachine Society, in the Fifties. His first acolyte was Rudi Gernreich, inventor of the topless dress and topless bathing suit, and one of his lovers was the actor Will Geer (best known as Grandpa Walton in the TV series The Waltons)." Faerie, faerie, quite contrary, Iain Finlayson. The Independent. London (UK): Apr 12, 1998. pg. 4
  • "The people in Hay's life haveincluded then-lover Will Geer, the actor who later played TV's Grandpa Walton and who, in 1934, brought Hay to San Francisco to take part in a maritime strike that had paralyzed ports along the West Coast." This warrior still battles for gay rights At age 84, Harry Hay is going strong; JIM SEAVOR Journal-Bulletin Arts Writer. Providence Journal - Bulletin. Providence, R.I.: Oct 13, 1996. pg. E.01
  • "[Hay] was famous not only as a founder of the gay rights movement, for his one-time relationship with actor Will Geer (who played Grandpa Walton on The Waltons TV series,)..." When Nancy Met Harry, By Jeffrey Lord The American Spectator Published 10/5/2006 12:08:06 AM [1]
  • "Remember The Waltons? Did you know in real life Grandpa Walton was a pioneer gay activist? Will Geer, the man who portrayed white-haired, mustachioed Zebulon, was, from the time he was young, a radical activist with boyfriend Harry Hay, who in 1950 founded the Mattachine Society, a gay rights group in Los Angeles." Have a gay ol' time with the family on TV. By GINA VIVINETTO, St. Petersburg Times, Published June 22, 2005 [2]
Independent of Hay is a book by Boze Hadleigh which gives quotes by various Hollywood celebrities gossiping about each other. Apparently Forrest Tucker is quoted as calling Geer gay:
  • "Subtitled "Stars Gossip About Other Stars," it has everything from Vivien Leigh's comments on Clark Gable's denture breath and Billy Wilder's assessment of working with Marilyn Monroe in "Some Like It Hot" ("breasts of granite and a mind like Gruyere cheese") to whole chapters devoted to famous ex-spouses having a go at each other, and gay gossip (the only surprise names for those of us out of the loop were Mary Martin, Richard Deacon of the old "Dick Van Dyke Show" and, according to Forrest Tucker, Will Geer -- Grandpa Walton)." AND MALICE FOR SOME SHARP TONGUES AMONG THE LITERATI; JEFF SIMON News Book Reviewer E Edmund Wilson started. Buffalo News. Buffalo, N.Y.: Jul 17, 1994. pg. G.6
This article does not attribute its assertion:
  • "Grandma Walton (Ellen Corby) studied meditation with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and Grandpa Walton (Will Geer) was a gay rights campaigner blacklisted in the McCarthy era. " The Critics: Television - The tools of US foreign policy: two teenage belly-buttons; Matthew Sweet. The Independent. London (UK): Jul 28, 2002. pg. 12
In this quick review I don't see any assertions that Geer had other relations with men besides Hay. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
So basically one guy, notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, has verifiably stated that this guy was his lover. Such encounters are generally uncorroborated by a third party, in the nature of things. If we report who said this, and when, in a neutral tone, I think that is fine. What we cannot do is use weasel words to express our own personal distaste for the claims. If this is notable enough to be included here, we must report the sources neutrally and dispassionately. Neither do we report negatives like No one else has ever come forward claiming to have had a bisexual relationship with the then deceased, family man Geer. Our readers are not stupid; our job is to report the facts and let them make up their own minds about the sexuality of the subject of the article, in my opinion. --John 05:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Three points: Forrest Tucker, who was married four times with children, reportedly said that Geer was gay/bisexual. So it's not just Hay. Second, the allegation from Hay has been adopted by numerous reliable secondary sources. So The Independent has called Geer bisexual, as have the San Francisco Chronicle and others. It's not just a single quote by a single person in a single book. Lastly, assertions about Geer (and Hay) do not apply to others. It is not a BLP violation of Geer's children or widow to say that Geer was bisexual or communist. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Interesting further info. I agree with you. Include it in a NPOV way; BLP quite clearly doesn't apply here. Although I don't think with this level of verifiability we'd be breaching it even if it did, thinking about it. --John 05:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
(It's not "new" info - I posted it here days ago.) I think we should briefly summarize the sources listed above. We don't need to make a big thing about it. In the chronology of his life we should simply say that while he was hanging out with Hay they had a brief relationship. That's about all we know and we should leave it there. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 06:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

As i read the above sources, Hay's claim to have been Geer's lover first surfaced in 1990, which was 12 years after Geer's death. Furthermore, all sources cited after that date, including Forrst Tucker, point directly back to Hay's 1990 claim. I am not saying that its revelation 12 years after Geer's death makes the claim suspect, but it certainly leads one to wonder why Hay waited so long to tell this story.

My immediate curiosity next falls on Herta Ware, Geer's long-time wife, who died in 2005. During the 15 years between when Hay made his claim and Ware died, did she voice an opinion? She did not know Geer back in the early 1903s, but did he tell her anything about having had a relationship with Hay? Given the couple's political sensibilities, it seems unlikely that she would have suppressed the information if she had it -- but none of the above articles quotes her or either of Geer's children -- or anyone except Hay.

cat yronwode

[edit] Zeb Walton's death

With a 'varifiable source', it should be added that the character 'Zeb Walton' was written out of the Waltons (via heart-attack), due to Geer's death. GoodDay 22:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)