Talk:Wilhelm Reich

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[edit] Einstein and orgone

The following statement in the article appears inaccurate. "Einstein observed a rise in temperature, and confirmed Reich's finding.[32] Reich concluded that the heat was the result of a novel form of energy—orgone energy—that had accumulated inside the Faraday cage. However, one of Einstein's colleagues at Princeton interpreted the phenomenon as resulting from thermal convection currents. Einstein concurred that the experiment could be explained by convection." This text erroneously suggests that Einstein first nodded and then changed his mind after discussing the issue with a colleague. In fact Einstein addresses the issue in his letter to Reich of February 7th, 1941. Describing his attempt to verify Reich's claims, Einstein writes that the "box-thermometer showed regularly a temperature of about 0.3-0.4 higher then the one suspended freely", therefore confirming the raise in temperature observed by Reich. Right after that, however, in the same letter, Einstein writes "One of my assistants now drew my attention to the fact that in the room (...) the temperature on the floor is always lower than the one on the celing". Starting from that, Einstein describes how he modified the experimental setting and, on the basis of what he observed, reached a conclusion:"Through these experiments I regard the matter as completely solved". Hence the current text in the article is misleading and should be modified. First, it was Einstein's assistant (and not "one of Einstein's colleagues at Princeton") who made the first crucial remark, second and most important, it was Einstein himself who, after modifying the experimental procedure, came to the conclusion that settled the problem for him. Einstein's letter is published (both in the original German and in the English translation which I quoted) in "The Einstein Affair", Orgone Institute Press, 1953. Stammer 13:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

On this matter, I can't believe that the control thermometer was placed on the ground. Surely it is elementary to place it above a "dummy" non-accumulator such as a plain wooden box? Also, Einstein mentions a thermometer "suspended" which would imply it wasn't on the floor to begin with. How did he "modify" the experiment? MegdalePlace 20:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

// I agree, I also cannot see the logic behind that reasoning. The text says that (control) measurements were taken inside, outside and above the "real" "accumulator", and then inside a "pseudo" one, i.e. mere metal box. So please, what have bottom and top-of-the room temperatures to do with it ? The one thermometer "suspended freely", at which height above ground in that room would it take the measurement, and how would that compare to the height above room floor of the one inside the accumulator ? - And then, another question comes to mind, why didn't they use a LARGE, multi-layered accumulator, to increase any effects (if they should occur), and compare that measurement again with those outside any box and inside a metal-only box with equally thick walls ? If both considered the question so important, at least initially, and if a not jobless famous physics professor would spend his time anyway, why not use such a set-up, for the sake of clarity of results ?

Regards, Sophophilos: 147.142.186.54 (talk) 15:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

All of Reich's experiments can be read about in detail as he carefully repeated them under various different circumstances and wrote extensively about them all. You can read his journals if you want to follow his own personal communications, such as with Einstein, and how that evolved. Reich in fact had no intention of using "The Einstein Affair" or Einstein's name to promote his work; he only made it known after others claimed that Einstein had denied his results, which was untrue. This subject is only a mystery if you debate how it sounds to you without actually reading Reich's writings. SO, why debate something about which you know nothing? Start by reading the Function of the Orgasm and the Cancer Biopathy, both written around 1940. At least then you have a foundation in your acceptance or rejection of Reich's theories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.78.190 (talk) 09:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

To "Stammer": It is nice that the letters have been published. Only it will be difficult to get hold of a copy (I do not assume many liraries in either the USA or Germany or elsewhere will hold a copy), and then you indicated yourself that sentences are missing (at least one, which will raise the question "...how many more?"). It would be much nicer if from reading this article here one would get an idea of the actual experiment, procedures and how Einstein came to his negative conclusion. This is, so far, not the case. It is not clear; "some modifications" can mean all sorts of things; I want to understand his reasoning. The article section is a disappointment, because it first goes into some detail, so you expect to gain clear insight from reading it, and then it does not provide crucial information.
To the Anonymus of February 1st: If the quotes in the article are correct, then what you wrote is plain wrong; read those and either correct them, in case they are wrong, or learn from them, in case they are correct, that Einstein did clearly state that he considered Reich's theory contradicted by the results of his own experiment. Also you seem not to have noticed that here we do not discuss the validity of Reich's ideas, which you seem to want to defend, but the logic behind Einstein's experimenting and reasoning. I have indeed read a good deal of secondary and also some primary sources on Reich's work, including what some modern experimenters did (the latter in German language mostly). Instead of admonishing us to "first read before debate", which is superfluous, you had better enlighten us about the aspects that have so far remained unclear, if indeed you have such insight.
Sophophilos: 147.142.186.54 (talk) 14:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cloudbuster

It may be a minor point but I'm not clear from the text - If "designed" - was it built? The photo indicates so of course but was it tested - Did it work in any real sense of the word? Rrose Selavy

Reich used the cloudbuster to conduct dozens of experiments involving what he called “Cosmic Orgone Engineering (C.O.R.E.).” One of the most notable occurred in 1953. During a long drought that threatened the Maine blueberry crop, several farmers offered to pay Reich if he could bring rain to the parched region. The weather bureau had forecast no rain for several days when Reich began his cloudbusting operations. Ten hours later, a light rain began to fall. Over the next few days, close to two inches fell. The blueberry crop was saved, and in local newspaper articles the farmers credited Reich.

http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/biography.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.233.181.193 (talk) 02:21, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

Are we quite sure that no other photo of this guy exists? Yes, he is a criminal, but that label alone does not quite convey who he was.--03:29, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Note: I did not remove the mug shot. SlimVirgin did.--SallyForth123 12:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a relatively good photo at http://www.netspirit.dk/new/?page=859 that I found, but I am not sure if it can be used under fair use or whatever. Since he is dead, maybe you could just add a rationale and where you got it from? the article needs a photo, just not the mugshot. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.186.172.75 (talk) 15:52, August 21, 2007 (UTC)
Hey Babe, this guy like you said, is not a criminal. Read a bit more and you will sound less like an idiot. -- Yalla 17:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
He was convicted and put in prison, and this would seem to qualify as a criminal in the eyes of most people. 70.186.172.75 10:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
hmm, conversely, George W. Bush is not (yet) a declared criminal and yet in the eyes of many he is judged to be one. Is the U.S. government and FDA infallible? Try to be more objective and research both sides before you use ad populum arguments. --kimslawson 14:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems incredible that there is no quality photo of Reich to insert in this article. If nothing else the mug shot would be all right. As for stating that Reich was a criminal, well, that's absolutely preposterous.Orlando F 22:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

The FDA action against Reich is what was criminal, and it was directed by the interests of the medical profession, especially the drug companies. Reich had found a humane, non-invasive method of improving the body's resistance to disease, of strengthening the immune system. And he published the method to build his devices for all to read. Repeat: he gave away the directions to build orgone accumulators, for free. What could possibly have been his "crime"? Read the Reich files at the Freedom of Information Act section of the FBI site to see how badly they hounded him and how desperate they were to find anything against him. It is a very sad and shameful chapter in American history. He was railroaded by collusion between big business and government. All this information is readily available, so learn it before you slander the guy.

[edit] No reference to The Wilhelm Reich Foundation

It seems strange that there is no reference in the article about the existence of The Wilhelm Reich Foundation and The Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust and its trustee Mary Boyd Higgins.--Orlando F 18:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Just do it. :-) Sincerely. -- Yalla 09:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crowd psychology

Wilhelm Reich was into crowd psychology as you can see in the bibliography of the article. The Mass Psychology of Fascism was one of his most important works. --mms (talk) 10:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

That book has nothing to do with crowd psychology. __meco (talk) 10:10, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
It is listed in the bibliography of the article crowd psychology. See yourself! This topic has bothered Reich in other works, too. For example Listen, Little Man! (1948) and The Murder of Christ (1953). --mms (talk) 10:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influence of Max Stirner

Wilhelm Reich wrote in his personal journal:

“ Max Stirner, der Gott, der 1844 sah, was wir 1921 nicht sehen!”

Wilhelm Reich[1]

Reich also listed The Ego and Its Own in the bibliography of The Murder of Christ. Reich also referred to Stirner in a talk at the Wiener Psychoanalytische Gesellschaft in 1920.[2] I think this is enough evidence that Reich was greatly influenced by Stirner. --mms (talk) 10:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Then please provide a reference so the rest of us can evaluate the context of this statement. In the books by and about Reich that I have read I can not remember to have come across his name, at least not in the way that you suggest: as an important influential figure. __meco (talk) 10:24, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I pushed the button too early. Even so I can only provide three references Reich made to Stirner, I think one can judge that he was strongly influenced by him. Reich must have recognised that Stirner was a name a psychoanalyst should not mention. --mms (talk) 10:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] German studies

The article claims that "a double-blind, controlled study of the psychological and physical effects of the orgone accumulator was carried out by Stefan Müschenich and Rainer Gebauer at the University of Marburg and appeared to validate some of Reich's claims", and gives references to a paper in German. Are there any German-speaking editors who can comment on the status of the journal in which it was published or, better still, have access to the paper? I ask because one quite often sees papers being cited to support pseudoscientific claims when, on examination, the papers have little or no relevance to the claims being made. LeContexte (talk) 14:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


// Hello there,

There seems to be a slight error on your side. There is, as far as I can see, no "paper" - if "journal article" is what you mean by that - in German mentioned in the article. Both, the one by Mr.Müschenich and Mr.Gebauer (done collectively) and the one by Mr Hebenstreit, were doen as THESIS to obtain a University degree, both at psychology departments. One, the former, was then also published in a reworked version in book form by a "Pro-Reich" book publisher (probably a small one - I think they publish/ed some "Reichian" journal as well). I have not seen either of these. I have written further comments on those papers, the Universities, and the availability on the discussion page for the article on Orgone, where you may continue reading (section 15).

Regards, Sophophilos: 147.142.186.54 (talk) 18:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redundant section

The first three paragraphs of "Later Career" are borrowed from the beginning of the article. I propose deleting them, as their repetition does not seem to add anything.

[edit] spam somewhere?

If I try to edit the page (I'm not adding any link) I get this message

"cannot be saved as it contains a link to a site which is on the spam blacklist -lulu". I can't personally find the link to lulu- can someone spot it and remove it? special, random, Merkinsmum 21:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed. It's definitely not on the page. I'll ask an admin to fix it. --Karuna8 (talk) 22:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, it's fixed. --Karuna8 (talk) 23:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Corrington stuff should be better presented

I originally entered the following on April 16:

Theologian Robert S. Corrington also emphasizes Reich's unusual thinking power in his 2003 Reich biography. He had an almost unparallelled ability to synthesize knowledge from vastly diverging fields "simultaneously maintaining several seemingly incompatible conceptual horizons in one expanding categorial and phenomenological space, while also making continual reconstruction and reconfigurations that correspond to an expanding phenomenal data field."[1]. Corrington asserts that while Freud at best could work out one or two categorial horizons simultaneously, "Reich [...] could hold a number of horizons in his mind while reshaping each one under the creative pressure of the others, [...]producing a rich skein from the game stragies of (1) transformed psychoanalysis, (2) cultural anthropology, (3) economics, (4) bioenergetics, (5) psychopathology, (6) sociology, and (7) ethics."[2]

This was severely trimmed to the point, I feel, that the significant elements got lost in the process. Perhaps this segment is too long for it to be in the introduction, however, I'd like a version of this that is closer to my original one than the current bland mention to appear somewhere in the article. __meco 23:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Again, Robert Corrington's overall assessment of Wilhelm Reich intellectual prowess has been removed without the consideration for the possibility of making this a communal decision. I can agree with SlimVirgin's position that the lead was too long. Her opinion that Corrington is a marginal figure with respect to being a source for this assessment of Reich is something I feel ought to be discussed, as I have previously encouraged. Robert Corrington's psychobiography is not a work to be taken lightly, in my opinion, and I would be intrigued to read the rationale of someone who would assert that. I believe the above should have its place in the article. __meco (talk) 22:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Areas of possible improvement in article

The 2nd paragraph of the lead appears to be word for word repetition of 2nd paragraph of Section:later career. Leaving the 2 paragraphs in the lead to summarize the rest of the article.

The phrase “joy of life [was] shattered, torn apart from my inmost being for the rest of my life!” is repeated and attributed to 2 different references each claiming to be WR writing about himslf - one implies the phrase relates to fear of being "gotten rid of" by his mother and her lover, whereas the other reference states that the phrase relates to the effect that the affair had on him. Necessary repetition? Confusing?

"Creme claims his primary contact today with these beings is with one known as Maitreya who is "soon" to appear as a world-wide saviour preparing the way for his master also known as Lucifer" - this is not notable in relation to the topic of this article and is better removed.

I am open to discussionon any of these observations. SmithBlue (talk) 06:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

At this occasion I think it's appropiate to remind interested WPns to some earlier efforts of mine to improve this article — which were tenaciously counteracted by Slim Virgin (a „very influential wikipedian“ — as I was told, and as I experienced):
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Changes_to_intro as an IP
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#.22intro_restored.22
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Lead
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#FYI_from_a_psychology_professional
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Einstein_episode_overstated
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#A_long_standing_revert_war
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Inappropriate_structure_of_the_article_.28moved_from_subpage.29
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Proposal_of_a_new_structure_of_the_article
Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Anybody_around_there_who_cares_about_the_Reich_article_.3F
Instructive are the corresponding history files of the article from end Dec 2005 and from end June 2006 to Dec 2006.
--Nescio* (talk) 12:44, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Areas of possible improvement in article #2

Hi, I'm a different user than the person above, but I just wanted to mention that the Gansevoort Incinerator (where Reich's books are said to have been burned) is not on East 25th Street or the Lower East Side (and, as a side note, East 25 st. is not in the Lower East Side, it's in Midtown), but there is a Gansevoort incinerator (now defunct) on Gansevoort Peninsula on the West Side of Manhattan just south of 12th street, in Greenwich Village. I didn't change it because I wasn't sure where Reich's materials were destroyed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.2.156 (talk) 02:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Cloudbusting.jpg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --00:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)