Wikipedia talk:WikiProject user warnings

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[edit] Warnings

Note: Always remember to substitute user warning templates. For help on user warnings, see the WikiProject on User Warnings.
Older warnings may have been deleted, but are still visible in the page history.
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[edit] March 2007

warning warning block warning

[edit] Possibly useful?

Hi folks! I'd like your opinion on something. Recently, I've been having some success with my own combined {{uw-test1}} and {{welcome}} template. Of the hundred or so people I've used it on, virtually all have stopped (same as happens with test1, I'd imagine) but some have gone on to be surprisingly productive good-faith editors. Also, some clear wrong 'uns, who I'd've expected to breeze through the uw-tests in quick time have stopped dead on getting it - and that surprised me.

The template is as follows:

[edit] Question

What is the difference between the template {{uw-v4}} and {{uw-bv}}? They both seem similar since both of them could function as final warnings. Could these two templates be merged together? I asked something similar to this elsewhere but nobody could come up with an answer. Cheers. Trance addict - Tiesto - Above and Beyond 06:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

{{uw-v4}} is intended to be used after {{uw-v3}} (which should come after {{uw-v2}}, which should often come after {{uw-v1}}). {{uw-v4im}} could come after they've already had a block for vandalism. {{uw-bv}} is for cases where you would normally use {{uw-v1/2}}, but the person is being so bleeding obvious that that would be dumb. The threshold for this is in general up to the editor leaving the warning, and for WP:BITE reasons is often quite high. Anomie⚔ 10:54, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Speaking as an admin who pulls WP:AIV duty every day, the 4im warnings are used incorrectly or inappropriately so often, we have a special {{AIV}} template for it:
User has been inappropriately warned. 4im warnings are appropriate for severe vandalism and defamation only.
So my best suggestion is to only use a 4im warning in the most egregious cases. --Kralizec! (talk) 12:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Cheers. Trance addict - Tiesto - Above and Beyond 03:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Level 4 warnings

I started a thread here describing what I think might be a good modification for level 4 warnings, but thus far the proposal has not received any attention. So I figured I's mention it here. Please comment over there if so inclined. Yilloslime (t) 00:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Layout warning {{uw-layout}}

Since a lot of people arent following the warning layout, I made a layout template @ uw-layout. Now we can encourage ppl to use the layout. Stupid2 (talk) 01:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Since when is that layout mandated? IIRC, it was added to this page only because some wanted to see if more people would use the recommendation if it were displayed more prominently. Anomie⚔ 01:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, having just received one of Stupid2's "warnings" I have to say its spectacularly ill-conceived. Apart from the obvious misnomer of "mandated", I think this approach is entirely the wrong way around. If you look at how user warnings are actually used, its obvious that almost no-one uses the layout proposed by the WikiProject. The layout clearly doesn't work - the de facto consensus is to interleave warnings with other messages on talk page. I have yet to see an example of a separate warnings section. I very occasionally see the use of numbered lists, but even then that is the tiny majority of the use. The standardized user warnings are very useful, but the layout guidelines are not. The project would be much better served if it rewrote its layout guidelines to reflect actual usage instead of trying to beat the dead horse of the current guidelines. Best, Gwernol 01:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
<edit conflict>No, it's not mandated... and evidently higher exposure hasn't succeeded in getting more people to use it. I myself have mostly abandoned it since I started using tools like Twinkle and Huggle which are non-compliant with it. It would really make things neater and easier if the layout were to be more widely used. The only other thing I can think of would be to invite the input of the creators of the various anti-vandalism tools and bots about whether they could implement the layout into their code. I'd be happy to undertake such an invitation if no-one objects. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 02:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, bad word choice. Can someone make it asound more natural and less forceful? Making the bots and tool automatically follow the layout will make more people adopt it so lets do it. Stupid2 (talk) 03:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Truth be told, I can't think of any way to salvage the template. WP:UW can't make arbitrary guidelines for all editors to follow all across Wikipedia, so even a template saying "please follow the suggested layout" would really be pointless. Getting bots and tools to use it would help increase usage, but it still wouldn't make it a guideline. You could write up a proposal at WP:VPR to try to get a real guideline made, but I rather doubt it would pass. Until then IMO the best thing would be for you to {{db-user}} the template. Sorry. Anomie⚔ 11:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to say this, but I can only see this template annoying alot of editors. The layout is a guideline, we cannot enforce how anyone leaves messages on talk pages and if you look through the archives there have been alot of previous discussion on this subject, and it always draws the same conclusions in the end, it's the individual editors choice. This template has not been discussed, and usually before a template goes ahead with the uw- prefix means it has been sanctioned (for want of a better word) either here or by UT:UTM before it goes live. May I suggest you don't use this again until other editors have had their input please? Khukri 05:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
The bigger issue is why do the vast majority of editors ignore the suggested layout? Its because the layout doesn't work in practice. I have never seen a separate Warnings section on a talk page. I'm sure we could find some examples out there but I don't recall ever having seen one, and bear in mind I have more than 30,000 edits to user talk pages.
I do occasionally see numbered warnings. In almost every instance there have been one or two warnings left with numbers and the rest without. Numbering makes little sense to me. It is visually unattractive and implies to the user that their warnings reset on the first of the month. It makes it very hard for users to respond to the warnings without breaking the numbering. Most importantly, what is the positive benefit of numbering warnings? I can't see any reason to do it, and it adds complexity and clutter to the recipient's page.
Wikipedia rules are generally descriptive rather than prescriptive. It would be much better to rewrite the guidelines to reflect the common usage, rather than trying to enforce a guideline that almost no-one uses. Gwernol 10:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wording on {{uw-v4}}

The second sentence Any further vandalism will result in your being blocked from editing Wikipedia. seems a bit awkward and grammatically incorrect, especially the part your being blocked (or you being blocked if it is a typo). This sentence should be reworded to something like Any further vandalism will result in a block from editing Wikipedia or Any further vandalism will result in a revocation of editing privileges. Cheers. Trance addict - Tiesto - Above and Beyond 00:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

That is odd. I've copied the wording from {{uw-v4im}}, how does that sound? Anomie⚔ 01:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
The change was proposed in WT:UTM#Proposed changes to level three and level four templates, based on several earlier comments. The main idea was to try to switch to "vandalism" instead of "vandalize", because the latter is jarring to our colleagues who use British English spellings. That being said, I can't say I disagree that the wording was a bit awkward--Kubigula (talk) 03:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you think we should still try to use "vandalism" in uw-v4 now that the template uses the word "vandalize" again? I'm ok with the way it is right now, but I think some editors might want the results of the discussion incorporated into uw-v4. Cheers. Trance addict - Tiesto - Above and Beyond 05:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Consensus

I am trying to determine if consensus exists to TFD some uw templates. Please comment at Wikipedia talk:UTM#Requests for Consensus. Thanks. Anomie⚔ 21:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] current Tfd's

is anybody still using those templates? Agathoclea (talk) 11:29, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stale warnings

With the rather large number of rollbackers and huggle users that are reverting and dolling out warnings, I'm starting to worry about all the old stale warnings being left on IP talk pages. It's more than likely they are driving away some potential editors/readers, but it'd be impossible to judge how many "some" is. Simple scenario, anon goes to the Wiki to read up on some subject, sees they got a message, reads it and the threatened blocking for something they didn't do 3 months ago. After that they usually either then go to the warner and/or leave the project. No matter how well the editor explains to him, they're prolly gonna end up with a sour taste of the Wiki. It'd probably be too impractical to remove all the old warnings now, but what about the possibility of amending the current warnings to say something along the lines of "after X months this warning can be considered invalid/stale" or whatever warning would be appropriate. This little bit wouldn't be applicable for recurring vandals, just those that get 1/2 message and leave. Anyone else's thoughts? --ÐeadΣyeДrrow (Talk - Contribs) 23:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I rather doubt it's that big of a problem. Every IP user talk page has a notice at the bottom stating that it may be shared by others and that you an avoid it by creating an account. If such a message would be implemented on the templates, you would first have to figure out some parserfunction to make it only appear on an IP's talk page and not on a registered user's talk page to have a hope of getting a consensus for it. If anything, you might have better luck either getting a similar automatic notice added to the top of the IP user's talk page (ask at WP:VP/T) or designing a template to put such a thing there manually (if there isn't one already). Anomie⚔ 00:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uw-canvass

Discussion is ongoing on a rewrite of {{uw-canvass}} at Template talk:Uw-canvass#Uw-canvass. tgies (talk) 05:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)