Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wine

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The current Wine Improvement Drive subject is French wine. Feel free to contribute to this article to help bring it up to GA status!

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WikiProject Wine (Rated NA-Class)
	Wine Portal WikiProject Wine is part of WikiProject Wine, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of wines, grapes, wine producers and wine growing regions. Please work to improve this article, or visit our project page where you can join the project and find other ways of helping.
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Contents 1 Wine geeks give advice on where Wikipedia can improve its wine coverage 1.1 Capitalized grape names or not 2 Upcoming Wine Blogging Wednesday 3 Micro-winery 4 Wine producer vs. Wine company vs. Winery 5 Dumb phase: neologism or wine term?

[edit] Wine geeks give advice on where Wikipedia can improve its wine coverage

Keep an eye on the developments of this thread for areas that wine geeks think needs more coverage on Wikipedia. (And yes, I'm going back to finish the Corsica wine article :p) Agne^Cheese/^Wine 16:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalized grape names or not

One of the "Vayniacs" of the thread asked this: "One little thing, why does the Wikipedia use inconsistent capitalizing? It should either be pinot gris or Pinot Gris, but not Pinot gris. The Pinot Blanc article is internally inconsistent in capitalization." I'm not sure I agree that Pinot gris is an impossible form, but I have also noted that our articles are inconsistent.

On this matter, Oxford Companion to Wine in the article "Vine varieties" on p. 745 (2006 Ed) explain their own policy in this way: "Not least because this is what usually appears on wine labels, this book uses the convention of adopting a capital letter for each word in a vine variety’s name, even though ‘Pinot noir’ may be botanically more correct than ‘Pinot Noir’."

Do we need a project guideline for this? And if so, can we just adopt OCW's position on the matter? Or is this case somehow similar to the BrE and AmE matter where editors can choose but internal consistency is recommended? Tomas e (talk) 18:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Somewhere there is a discussion from around 15 months ago that basically came to consensus that grapes are generally capitalize, unless the the second name is color related. So Cabernet Sauvignon is all caps but only the first word of Pinot gris or Pinot noir is. I'll have to poke around in the archives to see where it is. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 18:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

hmm, apparently the conversation took place off the project page. I'll have to try and remember where. I did find the post that started the discussion. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 18:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

See Talk:List_of_grape_varieties. Agne remebers correctly. (We should allow google to search talk pages ...) --Stefan ^talk 00:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Upcoming Wine Blogging Wednesday

Will be White Rhones. So who is up for some work on Condrieu AOC, Grenache Blanc, Marsanne, Roussanne, Viognier, Bourboulenc, Château-Grillet AOC, Saint-Péray AOC Clairette Blanc, Muscat Blanc a Petits Grains, Picardin, Picpoul,Ugni Blanc and others? :) Agne^Cheese/^Wine 05:35, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, considering I'm blasted on some mind-blowing Turley Zin right now, I'm going to go make an article on Turley Wine Cellars... this will be an interesting test that should measure how the ability to write articles degrades (improves?) along with the consumption of alcohol. (Anyways, sorry for hijacking your thread... you're right most of those articles need work, primarily along the lines of improved referencing.) - Merzbow (talk) 05:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

• Off topic but related While working on the White Rhones article, I was surprised that Marsanne went to a disambig page when the grape is pretty clearly the primary topic. I put in a move request at Talk:Marsanne (grape). Agne^Cheese/^Wine 03:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Well Marsanne has been taking care of. I was thinking of requesting Grenache Blanc to be moved to the lower case "blanc" but in light of the conversation about caps, I'm not sure if this would "uncontroversial" or not. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 19:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I didn't follow up the thread above, but I think it's possible to make a case for both Grenache Blanc (which would be my OCW-following preference) or Grenache blanc (which I suppose is the French way). Tomas e (talk) 11:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Micro-winery

Would an expert please look at the article micro-winery. It looks like a neologism to me, or a topic that could be merged with winery. Thanks --Thetrick (talk) 13:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Or indeed with Négociant, in a way - I'd support merging it into both of those.FlagSteward (talk) 13:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I like Flag's idea of merging it with Négociant. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 19:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I had never heard the term before, and it uses a very strange comparison to microbreweries. Have you seen many large-scale industrial breweries situated on the edge of a piece of farmland they use to grow their raw material? I'm not convinced of the encyclopedic value of the information included. Tomas e (talk) 11:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wine producer vs. Wine company vs. Winery

From looking at the categories Category:Wine producers, Category:Wine companies, Category:Wineries I am unclear on what is the difference between them - all wineries are wine producers, some wine companies own multiple wineries, some wineries are are set up as companies, etc. Is there a way to either consolidate the categories or explain their differences? Arguably wine producers could contain the other two Thanks --Thetrick (talk) 13:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Wine companies go way beyond mere producers - there are many companies which are identified as "wine companies" that are principally distributors of other people's wine. Winery primarily refers to the physical site of production, but has come to mean a company producing at one site. It is very much a New World term. Given the amount of wine production in English speaking Europe and Asia, one might argue that it's not much of a WP:CSB problem, but USians should be aware that it isn't a universal term. Wine producer is pretty self-explanatory. So a winery category is perhaps redundant with wine producer, but that's as far as I'd go.FlagSteward (talk) 13:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dumb phase: neologism or wine term?

I was thinking of creating an article on the term "dumb phase" but was surprise when I couldn't find any authoritative reliable sources, outside of blogs which really aren't that great. I could possibly put together a piecemeal article but it might be at risk of being AfD as a neologism (even though it really isn't new). Do you think its worth trying to make an article or should we just make an entry at Glossary of wine terms and leave it there? My main concern about the later is that eventually someone is going to come around to these glossary articles and either start demanding sources for these types of articles or AfDing them because "Wikipedia is not a dictionary, glossary or something". I'd rather not leave semi/important wine terms only existing on those kind of pages. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 21:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

My gut feel is that it shouldn't be a standalone article. At the very least it's got WP:CSB issues, this side of the pond we'd talk about a wine being "closed". I'd suggest a broader article on "wine maturation" or something similar, which would allow you to talk about more tangible things like the polymerisation of tannin molecules and the like, rather than a purely subjective, sensory "experience". You could also incorporate otherwise stubby definition articles such as Bottle-shock, and talk a bit about barrels and what not as well. FlagSteward (talk) 23:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm often going through dumb phases myself, but I would more commonly call a wine "closed". Could it perhaps go into wine tasting? Tomas e (talk) 11:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)