Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wine/Archive 8

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New conversion template unit

I nearly missed it, but the nice User:Jimp has implemented a unit with high wino-relevance to Template:Convert, with new unit winecase ready for translation into any applicable units, it displays case (no abbreviation) linking to Case (goods) & conversion is to litres by default. So, testrunning: I'd like 72 cases ({{Convert}} no longer accepts 72 as code. Please use 72*0.009 instead. Please refer to {{convert}}'s talk page for the reasoning behind this. Sorry for any inconvenience.) (expressed: {{convert|72|winecase|cum }} or: 12,500-case (112,500.000 l/29,719.356 US gal) production (expressed: {{convert|12500|winecase|l USgal|3|lk=on|adj=on}}.. although not with hL in triple conversion it seems to work, subject to verification :^) MURGH disc. 05:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Jimp has also opened up triples with a host of possibilities. Ex: 1,750 cases (1,575.000 hL/4,160.710 U.S. gal). MURGH disc. 21:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Cabernet Sauvignon now GA

As was noted here some time ago, Agne's expansion and overhaul made the Cabernet Sauvignon quite an impressive article, so I went along and nominated it for GA status yesterday. Despite the ominous warnings on the heavy backlog of the nomination page, it only took a few hours for it to be passed! Since Cab is rated Top level for importance, this actually meant a 33% increase in the number of "upper left corner" articles, i.e. Top/GA, although this fact hasn't been picked-up in the assessment log yet. I think this calls for a toast - excellent work (again) by Agne! Tomas e (talk) 22:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Cheers! MURGH disc. 22:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Wow...that was quick. Thanks :) Admittedly I've been slacking in my work on the other Top importance article. "Off Wiki" Life slapped me upside the head with my car getting stolen :{ Been going through the motions dealing with police reports/insurance and shopping for a new car. It is nice to get a little good news after all the headaches. Thanks for the nom. AgneCheese/Wine 00:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Congrats, Agne :) I'll drink to that this evening!!! --BodegasAmbite (talk) 09:29, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting article about tasting wine

Courtesy of the ebob board Check out this Washington Post article and the "budometer" test. I'm wondering if there is any material here that maybe worthwhile for our wine tasting article. AgneCheese/Wine 22:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Shiraz or Syrah, that is the question

I have now entered my request that Shiraz (grape) be moved to Syrah, and you can add your opinion here. Tomas e (talk) 18:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Old World Cabernet Franc

Looks like April's Wine Blogging Wednesday will be Old World Cabernet Franc. No date has been announced yet. In preparation we'd obviously want to polish up the Cabernet Franc article but some Loire wine regions like Chinon, Saumur and Bourgueil (which doesn't have a wine sub article yet) are other candidates to work on. Any other "Old World" regions that have significant Cab Franc plantings that we may want to take a look at? AgneCheese/Wine 05:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Are there perhaps any Right Bank Bordeaux wines with an unusually high proportion of Cab Franc, i.e., more of this variety than Merlot? I suppose it might be an idea to check up if Cab Franc's role in Bordeaux is adequately described in the Bordeaux-related articles. But I'm not sure if I volunteer, because I never expect greatness from Cabernet Franc. Tomas e (talk) 11:54, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm no help with region though Château Cheval Blanc ought to be counted as a nice marriage of CF and Merlot (a pro pos above alluded lovable character). Le Dôme of Teyssier is the most CF dominant Bdx I've seen around but.. never tasted. MURGH disc. 02:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Wow, i just looked at the Château Teyssier article. Nicely done. AgneCheese/Wine 20:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Wine GA candidate currently on hold for improvments

I've placed Beaujolais wine on hold for some necessary improvements during it's GA nomination. The requested changes are relatively minor; please feel free to pitch in. Thanks, VanTucky 21:57, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Ach, I've a ton of photos of the Beaujolais vineyards at harvest time which I still haven't got round to sorting out, plus some nice ones of Duboeuf bottles - another one for the todo list, I'm still deep in the Italy stuff at the moment. But I did notice that someone was actually questioning the notability of André Simon (wine writer) - so I've done a bit of a job on him. It's not exactly a FA, but it's at the stage where with some more eyeballs on it (and a photo - there's probably a better chance of finding one via US copyright than UK, hint :-)) ) it might be a GA candidate. Might even be worth splitting out dedicated articles on the IWFS (I sense it's a bigger deal Stateside than here?) and the book awards, if anyone feels keen. Oh and some little things - I've added Satyr's short "todo" list to the right panel of the project page, and Agne, could you sign your deliveries of the Newsletter - it breaks my archiving otherwise? Not a biggy, but it would be one less thing to worry about, even if you use <small> tags. Oh and I had a little go at sorting out Wine label - I lost the worst of the weasel words, but it almost needs a full rewrite to clean it up and properly globalise it. FlagSteward (talk) 19:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello VanTucky, could you elaborate on why you failed the article less than one day (20:49 to be more precise) after putting a note here encouraging people to pitch in? While I notice that you and Agne (who has contributed most of the article's contents in its present shape) didn't agree on some points, there are quite a lot of other editors around. Given that some of us work once in a while, we're located in different time zones and so on, less than one day seems way too short. Tomas e (talk) 11:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll take some of that blame Tomas. Once it became clear that VanTucky and I were at a standstill in our views, I told him if he couldn't pass it in good conscious then that is okay. But I agree, especially since I wasn't even the nominator, that I was being too forward and should have recommended more time for other editors to get involved. However, there is still a Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Beaujolais wine/1 going on and any editor that wishes to participate is free to. For myself, I'm going to take a backseat for this (and probably future GA nominations) and focus more on content creation. My off wiki work life is really hitting overdrive with expanding and remodeling the shop so I'm having to prioritize more. Please feel free to respond to the GA review anyway that you see fit. I won't step on anyone toes. AgneCheese/Wine 19:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Notability tags

The Notability Project has been identifying articles with notability queries - André Simon was the only European one covered by this Project (Agne - if you want a DYK, the Simon quote about not leaving wine in your cellar might work?), the remainder are all Californian wineries/vineyards, so I'm happy to hand them over to the other side of the pond : :-) Bien Nacido Vineyards, Shenandoah Vineyards, Firestone Vineyard, Hatcher Winery, Meteor Vineyard. I've certainly had Firestone wines in the UK, and Bien Nacido is definitely notable, but I'll admit that I've never come across the others. Meteor has a COI flag, and Shenandoah was started by a KSobon so probably deserves one too BTW. FlagSteward (talk) 19:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Already nominated and yes, that quote jumped out. :) Great work on that article. AgneCheese/Wine 19:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Update I've removed the tag on Bien Nacido, the abundance of reliable sources already in that article should be a surefire indicator of notability. I agree that Firestone is notable but it is currently written like an ad and would need a lot of work. The others are more "iffy". Though I will freely admit that I'm a bit more strict in notability assessment of wineries than others might be. AgneCheese/Wine 19:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Wine being just about anything with alcohol?

Not every editor of Wikipedia seems to bother to read even the first sentence of the wine article before expressing their views on what the definition of wine is. Take part in Talk:Chinese wine if you have any views on whether to keep this common mistranslation for a random collection of fermented and distilled beverages. Tomas e (talk) 20:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wine Collector 200

I tagged this article with your project. APK yada yada 16:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Languedoc or Languedoc-Roussillon ?

The article Languedoc wine is in fact an article on the entire Languedoc-Roussillon wine region, and no other enwiki article covers this region, which BTW is the largest in France in terms of vineyard surface. Therefore, the need for a name correction seems obvious to me, but since it is a GA and therefore has gone through some kind of review I have proposed a name change at Talk:Languedoc wine rather than just changing it. Tomas e (talk) 20:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

CellarTracker

Surprised there wasn't an article on this awesomely popular site already, so I made one. Woot. - Merzbow (talk) 08:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Considering that we miss articles on entire regions in the biggest wine-producing countries, Corsica wine comes to mind, and that more than 50% of our articles are stubs, often without sources, I'm not that surprised... Sensmorale: good work and there's still a lot of things to do and add! Tomas e (talk) 17:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Okay...okay. :p I finally broke down and started the Corsica wine article. :) AgneCheese/Wine 05:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, this area of Wikipedia definitely needs to be given more attention. I'll do what I can. - Merzbow (talk) 17:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 1.0

Found this link that is quite interesting. Suprising that e.g. French wine would not make it, but it is B class now so should pass the limit I think. According to the list we have 34 TOP class articles, 21 would make it and the more important of the failuers are already upgraded from start to B since lat the bot ran so they should probably be included next time. --Stefan talk 14:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually French wine is still Start-class within this project, although Wikipedia:WikiProject France classifies it as B. I think it needs significantly more referencing, some additions to e.g. the history section and perhaps some copyediting before I'd feel comfortable classifying it B. In general, it seems that writing good country articles have been slower and more difficult than writing good articles on individual notable regions and grape varieties. Also, French wine is perhaps the second-most wide-ranging subject after the big article wine itself. Tomas e (talk) 16:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

What does Moldova have which makes France, Spain, Italy and so on envious?

Well, apparently the country's wines has its entirely own Wikipedia project on enwiki. Check out Wikipedia:WikiProject MoldovanWines if you want to be slightly astonished. You may recognize a few features on the page, so to speak. I stumbled across it when I was checking out a large number of Moldovan winery stubs which had been tagged for our project, apparently added by User:Serhio. My problem with them was that all but one of them contained no information whatsoever to establish any notability, so I wanted to give him a hint that much more solid articles than his have been marked WP:AfD over time. I have no idea what to do about the whole thing, but someone else may want to check into it. Tomas e (talk) 19:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Also check out Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion regarding Template:Moldova-wine-stub. Tomas e (talk) 20:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Ummmmmm....I appreciate the enthusiasm but I think the Moldovan project is a bit of an overkill. It definitely falls within the "too small" scope of the Wikiproject guideline. I would encourage Serhio to focus on improving Moldovan wine articles within the WP:WINE umbrella. There is simply no benefit to this existing as its own project. AgneCheese/Wine
Agree; perhaps Serhio can be convinced to make his project a Wikipedia:TASKFORCE within the Wine project instead. - Merzbow (talk) 04:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I had the same thoughts; it would probably fit better as a taskforce rather than as a project, provided he'll able to recruit some additional people. Both the guidelines and the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals seem to exist to assist people in making suitable choices. Tomas e (talk) 12:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Wine photos

Hey, browsing Flickr I recently came upon some neat photos of a grape harvest in california. Do we need these, or are there a lot of photos like these already? VanTucky 23:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

They defintely look good! I don't think we have an overabundance of free images related to the wine production process (as opposed to photos of wine bottles or barrels), and especially not long sequences of photos. If you upload them, could you please put them on Commons rather than enwiki? It's practical to have all images in one place! Off and on I try to keep commons:Category:Wine and some of its subcategories in some semblance of order. Perhaps you could make a page of them, or create a special subcategory somewhere? If the grape variety/varieties could be identified, and not just the winery, that would be even better! Tomas e (talk) 10:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Another milestone

I just noticed that with the last update of the assessment log, we're now above 2,000 articles - at 2,015 to be more precise. That must be seen as a milestone of sorts! However, since many of the recent additions were winery stubs, the number of stubs is now 1,045, after having long hovered around or just above 1,000, which is 52% of the total number of article. I've never seen the proportion of stubs go below 50%, but that is a future milestone which I wouldn't mind seeing. On and off, I've been biting into a few mid/stub articles and expanded them into mid/start, but there are still 235 left in that category... Tomas e (talk) 12:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Advice on naming a category

Off and on I've encountered articles on a couple of beverages made from a wine base and realised that there seems to exist no category for them. This has led to some of them being put into inappropriate wine categories. (Wine + something else = no longer wine.) But Category:Alcoholic beverages seems to broad to put everything of this flacour into, its subcategory Category:Premixed and RTD alcoholic beverages probably more refers to Gin & tonic in a can, and Category:Cocktails with wine, sparkling wine, or port refers to things mixed in the glass or in a shaker rather than arriving in a mixed state.
Adding a category and knowing how to categorise it is not my problem, but I'm not quite sure what to actually call this category. Some thoughts could be:

  • Mixed beverages made from wine
  • Mixed beverages including wine
  • Beverages produced from a wine base
  • ...?

Two articles I would want to put into this category are wine cooler and Buckfast Tonic Wine, if it helps the inspiration. Also, not everything now found in Category:Fortified wine is really what I would call fortified wine. I also remember the bum wine discussion some time ago. Perhaps some of those articles could also fit inside such a catgeory. Tomas e (talk) 08:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Category:Wine-based beverages? AgneCheese/Wine 08:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
A few existing categories that may be useful are : Category:Cocktails with vermouth, Category:Cocktails with wine, sparkling wine, or port, Category:Fruit wines, Category:Vermouth, Category:Wine cocktails I personally wouldn't get too hung up on the distinction as to whether something is made at home or comes prepackaged - by the time it's in your glass it's all the same stuff - and for instance would you particularly want to distinguish wine that can be bought en vrac and in bottle from the same place? OR home-made bread from bakery bread? There's a horrible EU phrase, "Aromatised wine" which covers stuff like pre-packed sangria, which might be appropriate, but I'd have thought that the existing cats probably cover things pretty well. For instance, I suspect that Buckie is technically a vermouth (although I'm not quite sure what goes into it - possibly it's a premixed wine cocktail, but you could also view it as a Category:Patent medicines or a 19th century Category:Alcopop - I've gone with the last two for now), and I don't see what's wrong with sticking wine cooler in the Wine cocktails category. Must admit though, I feel that this kind of stuff is really best covered by sister Projects such as WP:MIX, and a few that fall through the gaps like Buckie probably belong in our parent project Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and drink. We've got our hands full as it is just coping with the mouldy grape juice articles - adding sugar and brandy counts as wine, but anything more takes it out of our remit IMO. Sorting out the whole fortified wine thing was one of the more pressing things on my todo list - I'm still a bit tied up with the Italy Project at the moment, but the end is on sight on that front.... FlagSteward (talk) 14:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Don't misunderstand me - I don't plan to spend much time to cover these mixtures, I just wanted a suitable place to "pour them out" when I find them in "real" wine categories. Tomas e (talk) 17:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Some awesome praise for Wikipedia's wine articles

From the Business Standard "The Internet is a pretty good place to start — just Google the subject and there's a wealth of information available. Wikipedia has some of the most authoritative articles..." Great work everyone. :) It is good to know that this stuff is being found useful. AgneCheese/Wine 08:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

One more interesting link. At least they're offering their Wikipedia Wine Book for free. :) AgneCheese/Wine 08:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)