Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/Archive 2

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Contents 1 National parks 2 Somerville Ecovillage 3 Interwiki 4 Proposal for new articles 5 Rockingham 6 UWA Philosophy 7 Writers 8 Opposition leaders 9 Perth Wikimania bid 10 [[Western Australia]] on Commons 11 Vincent Serventy 12 Portal 12.1 Duties 12.2 Portal tags 12.3 Suggestions 13 Kalamunda Zig Zag 14 Afd 15 Clickable Map of Western Australia 16 Clickable railway diagram 17 Bored at Battye? 18 Biographies 19 Protected areas infobox 20 For the geographically challenged ... 21 Greg Conway 22 WA 23 WA on Commons 24 Federal divisions 25 Hill River (Western Australia) 26 Fremantle Cemetery 27 Southampton homestead 28 WA Tactical Response Group 29 Haylie Ecker 30 Glen Eagle 31 The London Gazette 32 Renamed electorate 33 John Winter (athletics) 34 Colin Jamieson pic 35 State Library of Western Australia 36 Mandurah Rail 37 Fonty's Pool 38 City of Fremantle 39 Edward Scott (Australian politician) 40 Fortuyn 41 Kalgoorlie photos 42 TfD 43 {{fact}}ed articles 44 New town locator maps 45 Wittenoom, Western Australia 46 Kenwick Pioneer Cemetery 47 Clarence 48 Murdoch POV 49 Stephenson Report 50 WP:Perth/WP:WA 51 Photo request 52 Incorporation of WM Australia 53 Graphic overload 54 Thanks u guys for makin me feel bad 55 Jlong2008 56 The West Australian 57 Aboriginal history of Western Australia 58 Transperth train line map 59 Portal - changes possibly needed 60 Perth, Western Australia 61 Trouble at Perth Mint? 62 Perth Stations 63 Signpost 64 Gliding 65 article 66 Anyone? ( rather than putting in a to- do somewhere) 67 Heritage Council of WA website 68 Biogaphy issues - other opinions sought 69 Photographs 70 Classical/Popular distinction 71 WA Portal

[edit] National parks

I'm hoping to make a concerted effort in coming weeks to improve our articles on national parks, and have found some good sources. Using the 1980 book by Jenkins (p72-73) as an initial guide for which ones to start with, and collecting gazettal information, Green Book information (1974) and stuff off Naturebase as well as any specialist material. The first ones out of the box will probably be Alexander Morrison National Park, Tathra National Park, Cape Range National Park, Kalbarri National Park and Millstream-Chichester National Park. If anyone has any suggestions apart from the above to improve these, feel welcome to offer them :) Thanks Orderinchaos 12:47, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Nambung National Park

v • d • e National Parks of Western Australia Alexander Morrison · Avon Valley · Badgingarra · Beedelup · Boorabbin · Brockman · Cape Arid · Cape Le Grand · Cape Range · Collier Range · D’Entrecasteaux · Drovers Cave · Drysdale River · Eucla · Fitzgerald River · Francois Peron · Frank Hann · Geikie Gorge · Gloucester · Goongarrie · Gooseberry Hill · Greenmount  · Hassell · Hidden Valley · John Forrest · Kalamunda · Kalbarri · Karijini · Kennedy Range · Leeuwin-Naturaliste · Lesmurdie Falls · Lesueur · Millstream-Chichester · Mirima · Mitchell River · Moore River · Mount Augustus · Mount Frankland · Nambung · Neerabup · Peak Charles · Point Coulomb · Porongurup · Purnululu · Rudall River · Scott · Serpentine · Shannon · Sir James Mitchell · Stirling Range · Stokes · Tathra · Torndirrup · Tuart Forest · Tunnel Creek · Walpole-Nornalup · Walyunga · Warren · Watheroo · Waychinicup · West Cape Howe · William Bay · Windjana Gorge · Wolfe Creek Meteorite Crater · Yalgorup · Yanchep Protected areas of Western Australia

petedavo 03:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somerville Ecovillage

Needs attention if anyone has time. —Moondyne 15:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki

We should probably keep a watch on what goes up on the other wikis, but I noticed Cossack is up for deletion on the Italian Wikipedia - it's basically the first line of ours. Anyone know Italian? :P Orderinchaos 02:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I actually dont think we should, basically it.wiki has its own requirements and if an article doesnt meet them then it'll get deleted. Unless your a contributor there it's be inappropriate to voice opinions at deletion discussions there, as would the be the case here. Gnangarra 02:48, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I actually meant improve the article to a standard beyond which AfD would be necessary. Orderinchaos 10:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Just an update - it seems to have been resolved by User:Frazzone who added two paragraphs to it. Rather than using the en- version it actually seems to have taken a different path, which isn't a bad thing. Orderinchaos 07:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for new articles

• Andrew Forrest

  Y Done —Moondyne 04:32, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

• Fortescue Metals Group

  Y Done by User:Hartz 88 - was already at Fortescue Metals Group Ltd.. —Moondyne 13:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

petedavo 03:35, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rockingham

I've added some pics and other content to Rockingham and would welcome more [non-vandalistic (:-))] additions. Cheers Bjenks 11:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UWA Philosophy

The bottom par at Australasian_Journal_of_Philosophy may interest some project members. Bjenks 04:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Writers

I was just having a look around the W.A.-related material on Wikisource, and noticed that there is was no category structure in place there for the works of Western Australian authors. This got me wondering about Western Australian writers that died before 1954, and hence have public domain material available for upload to Wikisource. Naturally I came here to Wikipedia to check, and to my surprise I found that we do not yet have a category for Western Australian writers category, despite having a very well populated and subcategorised Category:Australian writers.

What do you guys think? Isn't it time we rolled out Category:Western Australian writers or Category:Writers from Western Australia or something? I would do it myself, but I don't have time to think it through and follow it through this month, and besides, deep down, I just don't give a care about literature all that much. Hesperian 11:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Hheheh I do care quite a lot the way they are diminished or marginalised by goggle obsessed globalists who cant find them listed there, and have a collection of their works to boot. I would consider Category:Western Australian writers - but limited time to work on the cat for the moment. vive the obscure west australian poets that dont hit oggle and its attendant lackeys! long live lillian wooster greaves memory - and all the rest of them! :) SatuSuro 12:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Take that! I liked that latter as it just seems to read better for states like NSW. Populate at will. —Moondyne 14:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I see you've created categories for all states except Tasmania (Apparently all Tasmanians are illiterate, hey, SatuSuro?) Well done. Hesperian 05:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe. But the real reason was I couldn't think of one to kick it off. —Moondyne 06:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Have made the category a sub cateogry of people from western australia which means some writers article have both categories- will clean up later when i have time - cheers SatuSuro 10:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Good move adding that Cat, but I don't see a problem with both cats being in an article. —Moondyne 08:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Um 'writers from western australia - and people from western australia - isnt that discrimination that suggests that writer need to be qaulified as people? :) SatuSuro 08:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opposition leaders

Presently working on articles for Colin Jamieson, Ron Davies (both Labor opp leaders during the Charles Court era) and Barry MacKinnon (Liberal during Burke/Dowding) - if any of you have or know of any source material I can use, would be happy to hear about it :) I have access to the Biographical Register, regularly visit the Battye and have a few books out on loan, and will probably get copies of the "Political Chronicle" from the AJPH for the relevant period as well. Orderinchaos 06:49, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I recall reading some sparse biographical detail for MacKinnon in the WA Inc/Kennedy Royal Commission report which is available online somewhere or other. —Moondyne 06:55, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I actually do feel sorry for MacKinnon in a way. He was just there at completely the wrong time. Orderinchaos 11:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Add Bill Hassell and Ian Taylor to the above list. Would also seem that Malcolm Bryce (deputy Labor leader under Jamieson/Davies/Burke) deserves the research necessary to get an article happening - seems like a thoroughly interesting person! Orderinchaos 05:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I remember Mal Bryce leaving the state in a hurry during the course of the WA Inc inquiry. Here one minute, gone the next. —Moondyne 06:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Wikimania bid

(Crosspost from WP:PERTH)

The bids are about to close. Per [1], if anyone is of a different opinion to me that we are not ready to bid and wants to improve the bid to an acceptable standard (I'm inclined to support Melbourne in their bid at this stage), please fix it within 24 hours, or it will not be made official. I would hope that if this occurs, that the bid be of a professional standard that does our city proud. Orderinchaos 03:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware when I wrote this that Melbourne hadn't made one. Oh well. :) Orderinchaos 04:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] [[Western Australia]] on Commons

Do you guys know that [[Western Australia]] is a red-link on Commons? Sure, we have Commons:Category:Western Australia, and it is getting nicely populated. But no-one has attempted to make a gallery.

What would you put in a W.A. gallery? It makes for quite an interesting challenge, does it not? Bear with me while I think this through James-Joyce-stream-of-consciousness style.

It starts easy: a good map, the flag, the coat of arms, the floral, faunal and ornithological emblems. After that, it gets a lot harder.

Iconic places? - Perth and the Swan from Kings Park? Cable Beach? - there's a fine line between iconic and cliched. Valley of the Giants? Karijini?

Politics - Carpenter if we had a picture. Government House. Forrest? Curtin?

History? - a good pic of an indigenous Australian to represent original custodianship. A picture of the Batavia to represent early sightings. The Foundation of Perth 1829. That famous montage of the original Legislative Council. Forrest. Something to represent the gold rush. The pipeline. A digger or two. The wheat belt. ...

Natural history - a photo of each of the Major Vegetation Groups to occur in W.A. should capture the overall feel of the place. Some good coastline pics. Maybe a cave.

Industry - Lots of natural resources stuff - e.g. an offshore rig. Perhaps offset with a picture of some Burrup rock art and a trogloditic mygalomorph ;-)

Culture: The WACA. Dennis Lillee. Northerly. Winton.

And so forth.

Any interest in continuing discussion, and/or being bold and making a start?

Hesperian 05:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like an idea, I've created the page Western Australia, will populate with pictures. I think it should be divided into major regions then we can build specialised galleries for each region as the amount of images increase. Gnangarra 06:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

After quick few edits it has more images than Victoria :) Gnangarra 06:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I've done some formatting, stop by and make any suggestions Gnangarra 13:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Urban bushland after a fire would be informative. And some fire. Coastal and marine activities are an angle worth exploring. Fishing, (Marroning too, btw), a very long beach, are the sunsets notable? Events too, a land speed record attempt comes to mind, founding of the colony, et al. Yagan (Statue), I will work up the tram angle. Cygnis insignis 18:46, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

When I get my cameras back I might try and photograph the Star Swamp area properly. It had a really bad fire about a year ago. Orderinchaos 04:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vincent Serventy

Has apparently died a couple of days ago. —Moondyne 00:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's a notice from today's Sydney Morning Herald --Melburnian 01:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

And page 18 of today's Worst. Hesperian 01:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Very sad. A great loss. —Moondyne 02:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I read one of his books once, was a real insight. RIP. Orderinchaos 04:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Portal

I propose to delete Portal:Western Australia, on the grounds that

1. No-one uses it;
2. No-one maintains it; and
3. No-one gives a toss about it.

Your thoughts right here please. Anyone who suggests I take this to MFD will be subjected to a geriatric rant about what Wikipedia was like in the good old days when a quorum of interested persons could actually make a decision, without needing a pointless bureaucratic process to ratify it. Oops, too late, you got the rant already. Hesperian 02:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I never even knew it existed :) Delete... -- Longhair\^talk 03:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so sure.

1. No-one uses it;

   How do you know and why do you care?

2. No-one maintains it; and

   Well, the articles it links to are maintained

3. No-one gives a toss about it.

   see 1. above.

—Moondyne 03:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I don't know. Disabuse me of my ignorance. What function does it serve, and for whom? Hesperian 04:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know either, I'm asking you (and I asked first).

But seriously, my understanding of portals is that they are for readers as opposed to editors, so I do think we need to look at it from that perspective. I am sure that you have by the way, but just wanted to make that point. You ask what function does it serve? I say what harm does it do? —Moondyne 05:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that the very raison d'etre of portals is to be fresh. This requires constant maintainance. An unmaintained portal, always with the same selected article, the same selected biography, the same selected image, the same do you knows, and a news section that begins "26 May 2007 - Three people died when there Piper Arrow crash near the town of Esperance." is pathetic. I fervently hope it isn't used by readers, as it would be an embarrassment to us. I think I've responded adequately to your "what harm does it do" question? But all of this is of course no longer relevant, since SatuSuro has indicated his willingness to take it on. Hesperian 06:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm neither for nor against. I'm happy for it to stay, but I don't use it myself so would have no opposition to its deletion. Orderinchaos 04:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe most of the current existing australian projects belong very close to the same status. I havent seen delete the project delete project attacks yet. I believe the originator of the portal should have beeen contacted for his opinion before any of this started - he is still around and put the effort in. Going public first is a bit of a furphy. If he cannot/unable no longer interestd - then it should be put to all wa/oz eds as a space needing tlc. Then maybe advetising possible chop, not before.

Dormancy should have a time stamp on it rather than whims - like untouched for 6 months - check with originator/participant, give them a week to respod. silence. check for any new help - if silence - then chop SatuSuro 04:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Object - having gone pulled some more weeds and thought about it, and some other things carefully - if there is no other candidate to - pick it up again - I will start working on the portal regularly after next weekend (ie the 17th Sept 07) - and would welcome any clues/help/advice/etc - I do happen to think it is a useful lead into more than the wa project - and am prepared to pickup where the founder left it off - and hope to disprove 1,2,3, above - however if after a period of time any of the 1-3 items or real life at my end becomes problematic again - I'm out. However until then I would prefer support rather than delete notes. SatuSuro 05:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

If someone's willing to take it on and make it useful, I'd happily change my fence-sitting vote to a support. Probably the best place to look at what works elsewhere is the Australia portal (featured) which seems to be maintained by CJ, he has weekly articles and pictures etc, with a script that determines the correct name so the main page rarely needs changing. One advantage of this approach is you could presumably create a whole heap of them in advance if you know you're going to be busy for a certain time. (Might also be worth asking him for tips) Orderinchaos 05:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

If it is kept, IMHO, the to-do section is inappropriate there - it belongs in the project page (only). —Moondyne 06:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

SatuSuro: okay, that's fine. So long as it is being maintained, I'll withdraw my request to delete it. Hesperian 06:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

My decision to delete the portal was based very much on what Hesperian had to say above (I just didn't have the time to rant it all up here before heading for the door). Stale information (like recent news) does nothing to promote the portal, and does everything to reduce it's usefulness. I too am happy to see it maintained by interested editors and will happily change my decision towards keeping the portal if it can be maintained regularly. -- Longhair\^talk 07:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

IMHO the WA project is a good example of a project that should have as many ways of showing other states and projects that it can evolve over time - regardless of eds coming and going and life getting in the way. I can see very clearly that 'news' that is older than a week or two is a very bad sign - I have too regularly come across websites of organisations with low levels of labour with 'last updated June 4th 2004'. While I am on - no such thing will happen. Other than that I cannot promise too much - but will try. Any advice on or off wiki will be greatly appreciated. cheers SatuSuro 08:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Would it be possible to create a portal that wouldnt require much maintenace? IMO, by simply removing the "News" section, we can have a low maintenace portal. The rest of the information/selected stuff will only need to be changed every month or so, and im sure someone will be willing to do that? Twenty Years 09:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm happy to look after News. I read a wide selection of online news every day, so it's not a huge imposition for me. Orderinchaos 09:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duties

Sounds good. Lets allocate some responsibilities so it isn't too much of a burden on one person. Add your name next the the section you'd like to be responsible for (more than one person for each is fine).

1. Lead article and general layout: —Gnangarra
2. Selected article: —SatuSuro
3. Selected pictures: —Gnangarra
4. Did you know: —Moondyne
5. Selected biographies: &mdash:SatuSuro
6. News: Orderinchaos

2, 3 and 5 are selected randomly from a pre-made list, so its just a matter of populating the lists. —Moondyne 09:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

For 2 (and maybe 5), we can probably just go through all B, GA, A and FA articles in Perth and WA and then just filter out any we genuinely don't want for whatever reason. (As an aside, as I believe editors should only self-rate to Start class, what's the best way of getting an independent rating from the project for any articles I complete?) Orderinchaos 09:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

(re: aside) I'm afraid I'm doomed to disappoint you then; I have every faith in my ability to self-rate all the way up to A-Class, and routinely do so, and intend to continue that way. I wouldn't trust some users to self-rate past stub, but I trust your self-ratings. Too bad your belief binds you, who doesn't need to be bound, and not those who do. The world would be a much better place if competent people like your good self showed a little more hubris, and the less competent a little more humility. Alas, the opposite is true. :-) Hesperian 11:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Just ask some one Gnangarra 10:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I'll probably wait till I have a few finished rather than a slow drip feed. Orderinchaos 10:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Cripes go out into the rain to transport the teenager to something and suddenly there's all this - umm.... Thanks guys - I thought it was gonna be a quiet solitary exercise but wow - hey thanks for the moral and literal....

[edit] Portal tags

One issue is at what point do we assign portal tags to articles - I have had various ideas re the Indonesia project and I suggested there that we never assign a portal tag to stub arts there - would that be the same here? SatuSuro 11:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

When you say "portal tags", are you referring to the usage of {{portal}}? See Flywheel_energy_storage#See_also for a live example. If so, one reason not to do this is that the link to the portal is effectively a cross-namespace link (which I remember we discouraged, but I can't seem to find information pertaining to it). Cross name-space links on Wikipedia break links on mirrors if that particular mirror isn't using anything more than the mainspace. -- Longhair\^talk 12:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengkulu - is a recently edited item that has the portal tag towards the lower right hand side - are you saying it is better not to have them? SatuSuro 12:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

That's them. They function fine for Wikipedia, but when taken outside, things break very quickly. The smarter mirrors around, like Answers seem to have worked around the problem, but a lot of others don't fare so well. -- Longhair\^talk 12:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

OK so it sounds as if its best to leave em off - even remove them from West Oz articles for the moment as a matter of principle - thanks longhair for the advice SatuSuro 12:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I hope what I'm saying makes some sense. I'm trying to find some examples of broken mirrors but this computer is giving grief at the moment. I'll try again after a reboot. -- Longhair\^talk 12:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

makes complete sense to me - best to leave em off - sure others will agree on the advice SatuSuro 12:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

No problems. Perhaps you could send over some of that rain though. We're begging for it here. -- Longhair\^talk 12:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

Will there be a system whereby users can suggest pictures (etc.) for next months selected picture (etc)? this feature would help increase community involvement in the portal, and therefore increase participation. Thoughts? Twenty Years 12:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

See Portal:Western Australia/Nominate/Selected picture. —Moondyne 15:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kalamunda Zig Zag

I had a nice email from a member of the Kalamunda Zig-Zag Railway preservation site [2] He's basically offered to help with any information there that can be used on our pages. So if there is anything specific either let me know and I'll pass it on or contact him per the contact link on that page. —Moondyne 01:10, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

We have little or no info on the various pages about the early stages of the canning mills timber railway operation - or the light lines that went out as far as (or further) than bartons mill - and each stopping place on the line usually would have opening and closing (some before 1949 for instance) dates and other bits and pieces - thats for starters SatuSuro 01:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

useful also would be the allowed/restricted locomotive types allowed on the line - I am sure there were quite a few loco types not allowed to traverse the zig zag SatuSuro 01:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Afd

• Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Great_Walk_Networking_(3rd_nomination) may interest some SatuSuro 13:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • This has been closed now. Hesperian 12:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clickable Map of Western Australia

Hello fellow Perthlings (and Westerners). I have made a semi-detailed, clickable SVG map of towns in WA, which you can see at User:Mark/temp Template:Map of Western Australia. My question is what should be done with it? Put it on Geography of Western Australia? Give it its own page? It could be scaled down, but would be mostly illegible. - Mark 11:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Please dont scale down - there are enough geographically challenged wikipedians as it it - please put in the Geography article. - I would even hazard a guess at the portal and the project pages as well - go for it! SatuSuro 12:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've left out several towns which probably should be on there, e.g. York, Bridgetown, Narrogin etc. I'll probably do a separate map of the Southwest. - Mark 12:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Though why not add the main route numbers which link to those articles, ie Highway 1 (Australia), Great Northern Highway etc. this really great idea I wonder if it could be place on the portal/project page as well Gnangarra 12:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

maybe make a smaller version for article pages with just the 20k plus towns, Gnangarra 12:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, those are good ideas. I'll do that tomorrow. Maybe set it up to replace the bitmapped town location dot maps we have, too. - Mark 12:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Fantastic work, and thanks - the sooner we get rid of the ugly bitmaps the better :) Orderinchaos 13:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I definitely think it should be on a template (so it can easily be used and can't be vandalised). It looks really good. I don't know if it would qualify for WP:FP because it's the image map that's so great, but it's definitely very encyclopedic. James086^{Talk | Email} 14:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've put it in a template at Template:Map of Western Australia, mostly so I can start using my sandbox for the next SVG/image map I'm fiddling with :) This is quite fun. - Mark 15:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clickable railway diagram

I've also created Template:Perth railway map which might be useful for suburban railway articles. - Mark 08:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bored at Battye?

This is a bit cheeky, but it is almost impossible for me to get to the Battye Library these days, so I'll put it out there:

If anyone finds themselves in the position of being simultaneously (a) bored; (b) rich; and (c) at the Battye Library, I require a copy of the journal of Archibald Menzies; or rather, the 30-odd pages of his journal pertaining to his visit to King George Sound.

Battye has two documents. One is a photocopy of the handwritten diary. This has the best provenance, but I don't know how hard his handwriting will be to decipher, and it is kept in the private archive stack, which means you would have to have a researcher' ticket to access it.[3] The other appears to be a typescript transcription, which would be better for me for most purposes, and is kept in the regular stack, so can be accessed by the average Joe via a stack request.[4]

I don't really expect anyone to help me out here, so feel free not to. If you do, I'll gladly repay your photocopying costs in cash or in kind.

Hesperian 00:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

responded by gmail to this can do in short term SatuSuro 01:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks! Hesperian 02:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biographies

Working on a draft at User:Orderinchaos/Colin Jamieson, about to start on the political career, but is that too much, too little or about right detail for personal? (I can expand a bit from the Bio Reg if needed). I'm not terribly experienced with the biographies, so I thought I'd put it out there. Orderinchaos 10:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a pretty good length, as long as you're going to go into his political career in some reasonable depth. It also might be worth, once that's written, shifting the paragraph about what he did afterwards to a new section. Rebecca 04:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that :) Will be writing the political today - although it presently has a big gap from his election in 1953 to his becoming a minister in the newly-elected Labor government of 1971. Two resources I haven't checked yet are transcript of a 10-tape interview he gave to someone at the Battye, and the Labor Party themselves (who I'm hoping can help on the photo issue), so might follow those up. Orderinchaos 05:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protected areas infobox

Most of the articles in Category:Protected areas of Western Australia and Category:National parks of Western Australia have Fact Sheet sections that need converting to Template:Infobox protected area of Australia. TRS-80 06:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For the geographically challenged ...

1. Is Wongong, Western Australia the same place as Wungong, Western Australia?
2. Was Halls Head, Western Australia named after William Shakespeare Hall?

(there is a tenuous link between the two questions). —Moondyne 12:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I have seen Wongong (Near Kelmscott) in a 1909 Government Gazette, it seems the name persisted for a while in the name of the brook which goes past it. That being said, doesn't necessarily mean that it was the same place. Landgate claims HH was named after Henry Hall who had land there in the 1830s, and was named in 1970, but Landgate have been wrong before or presented an authoritative answer when there is actually some controversy in the literature, so I don't take that as gospel. Orderinchaos 13:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greg Conway

Is this guy notable or is this the work of bored schoolkids writing about their teacher? I have never heard of the guy. Orderinchaos 04:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Never heard of him either. Looks like just a popular school teacher: [5] --Zamphuor 05:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Check the edit history - it was suspected of being a hoax way back - it is anyways but they get away with it too easy SatuSuro 06:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the smiley face and 'né burns' are telling, but vandalism or hoax? Cygnis insignis 06:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

• For the information of editors to this discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greg Conway Gnangarra 07:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WA

I just discarded ten minutes of my life by wandering back through the history of Western Australia (not the history of Western Australia) looking for the last time it got a serious edit, not vandalism, not reversion, not dicking around with the taxobox. I had to go back to this edit by an anon on 20 August. Before that: this edit, also by an anon, on 22 May. I gave up looking for more in late-April. Only two real edits, both by anons, in six months. What does it all mean? Hesperian 05:30, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

You should never ask questions like that - someone might respond :) SatuSuro 05:32, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it means the article is in perfect shape with nothing more to change or be added. —Moondyne 05:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I am curious to see what taxon it is - when I'm back on. Until then ... Cygnis insignis 05:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Touché. Hesperian 05:43, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

It is ironic though, you make a excellent point and we should make a concerted effort.Cygnis insignis 06:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WA on Commons

In September this discussion took place about creating a gallery on Commons for WA. The result is this please add and modify as necessary, further galleries like Perth are now being made. IMHO I have too many images in the gallery and would appreciate if other alternative images could be found, to provide differing perspective. Gnangarra 02:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Excellent! Reminds me I need to upload my Geraldton pictures. :) A free photo of the Francis Xavier Cathedral would be a good icon for Geraldton. Will look into over the coming week. Orderinchaos 03:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I added a few. SeanMack 16:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Federal divisions

With the federal election now upon us and Wikipedia receiving a lot of attention, I've decided to make the WA divisions look somewhat more professional than previously. Could someone have a look over Division of Moore and see if I've missed anything, if any of the detail seems irrelevant, etc, as I intend to use it as a base from which to launch articles for all 15. As some of you are aware, the current ones were essentially plagiarised off Antony Green and don't really tell the reader anything they couldn't find on either his site or the AEC's. Orderinchaos 05:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd say the geography consider multiple columns for the list of burbs reduce white space. Gnangarra 09:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Not a bad idea - will do that. Orderinchaos 10:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hill River (Western Australia)

Should the above article be split between the river and the town? -- Mattinbgn\^talk 12:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

"Should" is probably a bit strong. Having a single article for two co-located geographical entities of the same name is reasonable, until such time as someone has plenty to say about both. At the moment, Margaret River, Western Australia is a stronger candidate for splitting. Hesperian 12:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable, especially as I could not find much information on the town for use in an article. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 12:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The town is negligible in size, so while it exists, we're probably better having a redirect to the river article for it. Orderinchaos 22:02, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fremantle Cemetery

Anyone likely to be near it with a camera any time soon? (This is for an actual drive in the cemetery, not a gravesite.) --Orderinchaos 08:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually I'm planning on being there on Tuesday for an hour or so. ;( Anything in particular in mind? —Moondyne 11:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that. :( Yeah, there's a drive to the south of it called Colin Jamieson Drive (yes, my former opposition leader again, who was actually chair of the Fremantle Cemetery Board for a few years after his time in politics, hence the choice of name). The idea is to have shots of the two places named after him - I got the Welshpool one a bit over a week ago. Orderinchaos 11:29, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Image:Colin J. Jamieson Drive, Fremantle.jpg should win an award as the most boring picture in Wikipedia. In hindsight if I'd only moved the wheelie bin out of the way ... —Moondyne 04:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, Gawd!! But, somewhere, I have a nice pic taken in about 1979 at Wickham of Jammo with Paul Keating and other ALP chaps, all looking like taxi-drivers in their cardigans! Must dig it out.--Bjenks 04:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Brian, if you or Jean have any pics of pollies you want to share, please put 'em up, they're scarce as hen's teeth. —Moondyne 04:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, we'd much appreciate it! All I have is a fair use image badly scanned from a book. And thanks very much Moondyne, that should go well with my Welshpool shot :) Orderinchaos 08:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Southampton homestead

Hi all. Some of the editors here may have more idea than myself on the notability and/or categorisation of the above article. There is nothing provided in the way of sources at present. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 23:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

It's heritage-listed,[6] therefore notable. For heritage-listed places, the assessment documentation is usually an excellent source. Hesperian 23:40, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - I used one of those at Wollaston, Western Australia as they give a lot of useful background information about the locality and history. Orderinchaos 08:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WA Tactical Response Group

I've commented along the lines that this article seems to have been created and managed by Big Brother. Since this is a civilian police unit, it surely warrants some further explication about, eg, its role in managing peaceful protest (as per the recent Sydney APEC fiasco in which they no doubt participated as a training exercise) and the occasional excesses of gunfire (eg, one past execution against the WACA wall). Any comments or suggestions, friends? --Bjenks 04:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember details, but I remember the TRG had a very bad rep in the early 90s. Sort of like the Breaker Brothers kind of reputation. I was in my teens then and only caught glimpses of it on my journeys to/from school on headlines. Orderinchaos 08:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I've started some work on the article and also on Police Tactical Groups. Cheers, Bjenks 03:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Just a comment on one past execution against the WACA wall it wasnt the ideal action in the situation but it wasnt an execution either. Gnangarra 04:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Haylie Ecker

has been taking a hammering from a series of new and anon accounts, some of which look conflicted of interest to me. The most recent edit deleted her date of birth, for reasons unknown. Does anyone care? Can't say I do. Hesperian 23:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It on my watch now, I've welcomed the last one to remove the information and asked for an explanation under WP:BLP unsourced controversial material should be removed on sight so I've assumed good faith and ask for an explanation as to its removal. I've also restored the removed information as nothing in it s appears to be controversial. Gnangarra 00:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Glen Eagle

Had a look at Geoscience Australia and could not find evidence of existence for this locality. Locals will know if this place exists better than I do. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 23:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I take that back - here it is! Next question, is it notable and what should it be named. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 23:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I have moved it to Gleneagle, Western Australia. No comment on whether it is notable. Hesperian 23:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I would be inclined to suggest that it is notable. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 23:32, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Glen Eagle very easy to cleanup with the help of henrietta - gotta get off - someone needs to do a cleanup at Oldbury, Western Australia - needs similar treatment - wikify project tag and some refs - etc etc SatuSuro 01:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The London Gazette

Is now mostly digitised and has an online and free keyword search facility[7]. For example, did you know that the Rottnest Island Lighthouse flashing pattern was changed in 1895?[8] —Moondyne 03:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renamed electorate

As I understand it, the Electoral district of Mitchell (Western Australia) was effectively renamed to Electoral district of Leschenault with minor boundary changes in 2001(?). Do we list Mitchell as abolished or just make it a redirect? I suppose what I'm asking is, what does "abolished" actually mean? —Moondyne 02:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it depends upon whether the change was gazetted as an abolition and creation, or as a rename. I believe this information is in the yearbook. I'll have a look for you this evening. Hesperian 03:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Winter (athletics)

I heard on the radio this morning that he'd died recently, but cannot find any news stories to verify. Has anyone seen anything? —Moondyne 01:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Obituaries now found. Thanks anyway. —Moondyne 09:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colin Jamieson pic

Some time ago, somewhere in discussion, I promised to dig up a classic photo of Jamo and the lads. In the days when Hawkie was Caesar, I showed it to some Parlt House press gallery mates, and it brought tears to the eyes (mirth, of course!). Well, here it is for your consideration. Cheers Bjenks 04:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've incorporated it into the Colin Jamieson page which I intend to finish soon. BTW I'm going to be working on heaps of mostly historic WA politics stuff in the near future, so if anyone has any books or information I may not necessarily have ready access to which can be used as references, I'd be thrilled to hear from you :) Current focuses are:

• The Nationals Western Australia (what name should this article have? I've gone with their website)
• Western Australian general election, 1977
• Western Australian general election, 2001
• Colin Jamieson (will be the first to go as I have most of the info for it)
• Brian Burke
• Mal Bryce

Orderinchaos 06:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] State Library of Western Australia

I was shocked by the inadequacy of the article on this important topic and have registered on its discussion page an offer to take it on and improve it (in time). Are there any other takers, please? As a guide, the State Library of Victoria has much better coverage. Bjenks (talk) 04:14, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mandurah Rail

When looking through articles about the suburbs in particular the southern burbs of Perth please adjust any discussion about the Mandurah to indicate it has opened. Also most bus routes and numbers in the southern areas have changed as of the 24th, please check this information as well. Gnangarra 07:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fonty's Pool

User:Somno has given us this gem which has been on my to-do list for yonks. If anyone's going down that way, please take a photo and upload. —Moondyne 01:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] City of Fremantle

I've managed to get a complete mayors' list from the Fremantle Library's historical section staff. Could someone please look through the unlinked ones (they take the form A.B. Surname)? I don't know enough about the very early history to determine who they are, but many of the names look familiar. Orderinchaos 13:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There's a complete list in Appendix 5 of The Western Gateway, but in the same form. When I have time I'll rifle through the pages and see if I can pick up full names from the text. Hesperian 00:01, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Any idea who would have been mayor of Perth 1909-1911? (Trying to do succession boxes for Thomas Molloy.) Orderinchaos 20:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

That would be Richard Paul Vincent. Hesperian 00:23, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) Orderinchaos 05:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edward Scott (Australian politician)

Just did this one - as I'm fairly inexperienced at biographies I'd like someone to look this over and see if it can be improved. I'll probably be doing a lot of them in the near future so I'm quite happy to pick up what I can with these early ones. :) Orderinchaos 18:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fortuyn

Fortuyn and Fortuyn (ship) need merging. —Moondyne 15:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Should they be merged into 'Fortuyn (ship)', with 'Fortuyn' serving as a disambiguation page between the ship, Pim Fortuyn and Fortuynists (when there's an article written about that - seems to be a Netherlands political thing related to Pim Fortuyn)? Somno (talk) 02:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Moondyne 04:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, so if I had 'been bold' and done what I'd suggested, I would have been correct? Cool, next time I'll just make the change. Thanks. :) Somno (talk) 03:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah what I usually do with something not terribly controversial like that is post a notice on the talk page, and if I get no response within a few days, just do it. If it's absolutely uncontroversial, just do it on the fly. Distant-past edit history and a blank or almost blank talk page are typical signs of low controversy, though not always reliable. Orderinchaos 04:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kalgoorlie photos

I went out very early this morning to get some photos of the railway station, Mt Charlotte reservoir, Mt Percy reservoir, bit of original pipeline etc for the railway related and pipeline articles. Unfortunately the early light doesn't enhance signage and I might have another go tomorrow (Monday, 28/1) if it isn't still too hot. Any requests while I'm out and about? •Florrie•leave a note• 06:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

both of these are probably a bit far out Gnarlbine Rock & well, closer in White Peaks Tank, for the article on Charles Cooke Hunt. Gnangarra 07:30, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Too far, too hot for tomorrow, definitely. I do have some photos of Gnarlbine, Burra and Victoria Rocks as well as Hunt's Well. Problem is finding them. If not, I'll mark it down for a drive in a few months when it's cooler. I don't recall White Peaks Tank. Is it on the Nepean Road? •Florrie•leave a note• 09:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

re:white peaks I'll need to look at more detailed paper maps, all I can get is its eats of coolgaride sth of kal Gnangarra 11:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Our current photo of Paddy Hannan Memorial dates to 1948; It would be good to get a modern day pic. Also a photo showing how wide the main street is would be real nice. Finally, any native plants - trees, flowers, whatever. So long as it is native, not some imported garden plant, I'll have a go at identifying it and, if necessary, write an article about it. Hesperian 10:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I took two pics of Paddy this morning.[9],[10] It's nice to compare the street background of the 1948 pic to now. Also grabbed a pic of what I thought was salmon gum while I was doing the Curtin uni. Now that I've looked online I'm not sure - could be any one of a few different gums that have gorgeous salmon covered trunks. [11],[12] If I don't have to worry about identifying them, I'll get pics when I can of trees in natural surroundings (not a CBD street). •Florrie•leave a note• 12:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that's a Salmon Gum all right. Identification is pretty easy because the only gum trees in Kal are the Salmon Gum, the Gimlet and the Cue York Gum. It ain't either of the last two, so it must be the first. Re: natural surroundings, be aware that most of the eucalypt forest around Kal was cut over last century, so many trees are coppiced. Hesperian 12:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TfD

What happened to the XfD announcement section on the noticeboard?! Anyhoo, Category:Public servants of Western Australia is at TfD. Hesperian 01:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

that was me I removed the whole section in December as it wasnt being maintained, feel free to restore it. Gnangarra 02:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

No thanks, then I'll have to maintain it. ;-) Hesperian 03:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I will attempt to maintain the section, can someone let me know how?

Here is another thing that may be deleted; Image:WA-1995.gif, which is used at Black Swan emblems and popular culture‎ and elsewhere under 'fair use'. BTW, the article was recently nominated for promotion. cygnis insignis 07:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Did a quick and nasty rationale for it. Orderinchaos 09:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{fact}}ed articles

In case anyone is looking for something to do, the following are all the articles with {{fact}}, {{who}}, {{citation needed}}, etc, tags in the Western Australia category tree:

Aboriginal history of Western Australia — Alinta — Anigozanthos manglesii — Applecross Senior High School — Australian Railroad Group — Australian Raven — Batavia (ship) — Batavia Road (boat) — Bentley, Western Australia — Bluff Knoll — Brad Hardie — Broad-billed Sandpiper — Broome Regional Prison — Budgerigar — Bunbury, Western Australia — Busselton, Western Australia — Busselton Jetty — Cadoux, Western Australia — Cape to Cape Track — Carine Senior High School — Cartman (band) — Cockatiel — Cockburn Sound — Colin Barnett — Common Pheasant — Convict era of Western Australia — Cosima De Vito — Cottesloe, Western Australia — Currambine railway station, Perth — Dampier Archipelago — Daniel Chick — Daniel Kerr — Dave Warner — Dawesville Channel — Division of Hasluck — Division of Kalgoorlie — Division of Swan — Dowerin, Western Australia — Eastern brown snake — Edeline Islands — Edith Cowan University — Exmouth, Western Australia — Frederick Clause — Fremantle, Western Australia — Girrawheen, Western Australia — Golden West Network — Hal Gibson Pateshall Colebatch — Heathridge, Western Australia — History of Western Australia — Houtman Abrolhos — INXS — Jamie Coyne — John Molloy — John Rivett-Carnac — Julie Bishop — Kent Street Senior High School — Kim Salmon — Kwinana Freeway — Lakeside Joondalup Shopping City — Leatherback turtle — Loggerhead Sea Turtle — Mal Brown — Mallard — Mandurah railway line, Perth — Margaret River, Western Australia — Martha Rendell — Martine Locke — Mary Anne Group — Merredin, Western Australia — Mitchell Freeway — Mount Augustus National Park — Mount Henry Peninsula — Murdoch University — Murujuga — Northbridge, Western Australia — Northern Suburbs Transit System — Nullarbor Plain — Ocean Reef Senior High School — Perth, Western Australia — Perth Airport — Perth Glory FC — Port Hedland, Western Australia — Principality of Hutt River — Queens Park, Western Australia — Red Knot — Riverview Church — Rottnest Island — Ryley Dunn — Scotch College, Perth — Scott Gumbleton — Showgrounds railway station, Perth — SmartRider — Snowman (band) — Sooty Tern — Stirling Range — Sunset Coast CLC — Suze DeMarchi — Swan River Colony — Swinhoe's Storm-petrel — Thornlie, Western Australia — Transperth B-series train — University of Notre Dame Australia — University of Western Australia — Victoria Park railway station, Perth — WOW (TV station) — Wagyl — Wembley Downs, Western Australia — West Coast Eagles — Westrail — White-throated Needletail — Whitfords railway station, Perth — Willagee, Western Australia — Willie Wagtail —

A. O. Neville — Adam Gilchrist — Adam Selwood — Alan Fletcher — Alexander Heights, Western Australia — Alfred Bussell — Arthur Marshall (Australian politician) — Baldivis, Western Australia — Banksia prionotes — Banksia rosserae — Beaconsfield, Western Australia — Ben Hollioake — Brad Hogg — Broome, Western Australia — Canning Highway — Cephalotus* — Chris Rogers (cricketer) — Christabel Chamarette — Cockatoo Island (Western Australia) — Curtin University of Technology — Dirk Hartog Island — Elizabeth Jolley — Eucalyptus marginata — Eucla Basin — Flatback Turtle — Fourth Floor Collapse— Fremantle Arts Centre — Gemma Ward — Geoff Gallop — Geraldton, Western Australia — Great Egret — Haylie Ecker — Hazelmere, Western Australia — Heath Ledger — High Wycombe, Western Australia — Hopetoun, Western Australia — Hungry Jack's — Jamie Harnwell — Jeff Farmer (footballer) — John Butler (musician) — Joseph Schwab — Judi Moylan — Judy Nunn — Justin Langer — Kalgoorlie, Western Australia — Karrinyup Shopping Centre — Kate Beahan — Kingsley Fairbridge — Luke Pomersbach — Madura, Western Australia — Magpie-goose — Methodist Ladies' College, Perth — Michael Warren (Australian rules footballer) — Mullaloo, Western Australia — Murdoch College — Nik Mrdja — Nikolai Topor-Stanley — North Island (Houtman Abrolhos) — Outcome-based education — Parkwood, Western Australia — Peter Walsh (federal politician) — Portulaca oleracea — Post Newspapers — Prosh (University of Western Australia) — Quindanning, Western Australia — Quinten Lynch — Rally Australia — Richard Trowbridge — Rolf Harris — Rove McManus — Shire of Ngaanyatjarraku — Simon Colosimo — South Beach railway station, Perth — Southern Boobook — Southern Cross, Western Australia — Thorny Devil — Walter Lindrum — Western Shield — WestNet Rail — Woodlands, Western Australia — Yokine, Western Australia

*contains a {{Howto}} tag

Feel free to move this list to a more sensible place, if you can think of one. Hesperian 03:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

• Bingo - could probably take two weeks no big deal - i never see anyone else ever adding cites so my hand is up! SatuSuro 13:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
• Oh well before I start there is someone else working on it - thanks for that - glad to be contradicted :) ! SatuSuro 06:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Mostly Somno. Hesperian 06:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
    • I'll burn out sooner or later. ;) Somno (talk) 06:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for what you are doing - oh and we all do that - some of us return - others dont :| SatuSuro 06:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New town locator maps

I spent a couple of hours picking apart the vector map of WA I made several months ago, to create individual locator dot maps of the towns on the map. They're in this category on Commons. I was almost finished doing it when I was reminded by someone that you can do dot maps using templates and a base, blank, map nowadays. Bummer. But at least this one is labelled and also marks where Perth is. Are they worth putting into articles, perhaps to replace the ones like this? Either way, they're there to use if anyone wants to. There were a lot of places I left off that original vector map (e.g. Narrogin, Dwellingup...); I can do dot maps for those with a bit more effort if anyone is interested. - Mark 05:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd much rather we standardise on using parameter driven dot maps using a vector map background. Like what you did at {{Map of Western Australia}} but necessarily quite as elaborate and not in a template. I like Image:India-locator-map-blank.svg. See for example Pune. —Moondyne 11:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not objecting but I'd like to note that the inability to frame/thumb/caption these as with other images, makes their layout frustrating. Hesperian 23:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

That could probably be done with some css hacks, but I suspect we'd have to make it a parameter-driven template with options for framing and captions etc. - Mark 23:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wittenoom, Western Australia

Picked up some questionable editing loading the article in a particular direction which actually seems to be coming from a state government department (User:Dlgrd). I've tried my best to fix the thing, but with few sources, it's difficult - but I do know from people who have had dealings up there that there are serious questions as to the Government's case on this one, and having the government turn our article into a safety warning is not entirely appropriate. I'm going to be insanely busy this week so would appreciate a few watchful eyes on this one. Orderinchaos 18:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. As we all know, the government's role in the town is highly political and entries by apparent role accounts promoting a certain POV must be supported with citations and give due consideration to WP:WEIGHT. —Moondyne 09:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kenwick Pioneer Cemetery

I'm starting on this, will be going to take photos etc in the coming week or so. Are there any people of interest, memorials in the cemetery that would benefit from specific photos. Gnangarra 00:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clarence

Clarance WA, folks to watch out for its the settlement started by Peel, in dec 1829 until may 1830. [13] will need an article if you see any refs please drop me a note or link at User:Gnangarra/Clarence thanks. Gnangarra 01:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

That's the one near Spearwood? Orderinchaos 02:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I understand that the WA Museum is doing archaeological work wrt Clarence and its finding its exact location which is apparently still undetermined. Suggest checking there. There was a local news story abt 12 months ago regarding this. —Moondyne 02:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Found it [14] —Moondyne 02:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Q: were Clarence and Mount Clarence, Western Australia both named after the Duke of Clarence? —Moondyne 02:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

A: dont know, but will endeavour to find out more. Suprised by the way they are talking in the interview given that people Buried in Clarence cemetery were re interned in the Fremantle cemetery. Gnangarra 05:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a biography of Peel that I've never gotten around to reading. One would hope that this would shed some light on the matter. Will check tonight, if I remember, which is by no means a sure thing. Hesperian 05:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

"Captain Stirling could be very persuasive when he liked. The Murray River began to gleam with the allure of far waters, and the proposed townsite, for which two names were suggested — either Georgetown (for the present king, George IV), or Clarence (for the heir apparent) — sound both dignified and agreeable."

—Hasluck, Alexandra (1965). Thomas Peel of Swan River. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 75. 

Hesperian 10:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks Hesp, I added this to User:Gnangarra/Clarence looks like this may be gathering momentum, . Gnangarra 12:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I went to Woodman Point jetty recently and found they have recently re-sealed the paths along the ridge above the beach, and installed a plaque which, if I recall correctly, referred to an old settlement in the vicinity. I wonder if this is Clarence. My memory is a bit hazy. Either way, I'll eventually get around to going back and taking a photograph of the plaque. - Mark 15:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

There are also two "1836 Clarence Maps" here. I'm not sure which parts of them correspond to the township of Clarence, though, and I suspect that if the answer to the location of the town was as simple as looking at old maps, then the archaeologists wouldn't be scratching their heads wondering where the town was. - Mark 15:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Murdoch POV

Bradley John Murdoch needs to be moved to Bradley John Murdoch was wrongly convicted and should be freed immediately. Hesperian 23:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah the dingo did it? all the same stuff (either way) as the lindy versus the dingo did it? SatuSuro 23:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't care how much controversy there is, so long as we give a balanced report of it. "Murdoch was arrested primarily because he was found to have left Alice Springs at a time and in a direction that may have led to him being at or about Barrow Creek at the time of the alleged offence" is not balanced. And the link to 4 January is almost certainly a novel synthesis. Hesperian 00:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Ahem. As well as Bradley John Murdoch, we have R v Murdoch, Peter Falconio, Joanne Lees: Murder in the Outback and Joanne Lees. Hardly in the spirit of WP:BLP1E. As for content, legal cases really need to steer clear of attempting to summarise prosecution and defence cases. This trial ran for 2 months: it seems dangerous to selectively grab quotes from parts of the presented evidence. —Moondyne click! 01:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I've removed a large chunk of the article anyway, due to BLP concerns. - Mark 02:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I was in the process of doing the same, so endorse that cut. I had a bit of a tidy up at the telemovie. cygnis insignis 02:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

ok dingo wins - thanks guys for your work SatuSuro 02:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stephenson Report

WAPC has a resource of maps from the above.[15] which may be useful for more broad Perth articles. I reckon under the PD rules these maps are allowable as public domain, as I rationalised at Talk:Gordon Stephenson. Any comments there. —Moondyne click! 03:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Perth/WP:WA

Note:message left at both WP:WA, and WP:Perth

I am here to propose the deletion of the WP:Perth project. My reasons are as follows;

• It appears to be un-used: no edits to talk page since Jan 18th [16]
• Any collaboration efforts can be more centrally managed through WP:WA.
• Most contributors (or previous contributors) of WP:Perth, have since moved to WP:WA.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks. Twenty Years 16:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Reasonable proposition I think - WP:PERTH seems to have unfortunately died, whilst the talk page for WA (the newer project of the two) is used informally as a noticeboard by members on both Perth and WA Wiki topics, and has been for over a year. Originally the idea was to wait till other states became organised, but it may be an idea, as we were with having a state project to begin with (which every state now has), to set the way for others to follow :)

The way we normally do it is tag the old project historical, remove its subpages and move the articles across under WP:WA (this can be done with a flick of the templates so doesn't really need major AWB work or anything - we can talk to Longhair if there's any issues, as he understands these things far better than I do). This would allow us to centralise our ratings system, which at present is split between two counters (Perth counter (841 articles) and WA counter (2400 articles)).

Question then is - would Perth articles be better off, worse off or the same being under one roof with WA? A combined total of 3,200 articles is not unreasonable, and with the category and template systems (eg for train stations, suburbs, roads etc) I think it will change very little in practical terms for users. That's my thoughts anyway :) Orderinchaos 17:17, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

One question that came up before - WP:PERTH is a descendant project of WikiProject Cities. There was some question of us losing this if we lost Perth. However I note in the time since, WP:CITIES has changed its scope quite substantially and that Cornwall, Devon, West Midlands and North East England to list just four now come under it. Orderinchaos 17:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. —Moondyne click! 02:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. Hesperian 02:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Too many wikipedia projects start and fade away - some do have poor patches - and a month or two is neither here or there - irrelevent when you see some projects on wikipedia - however the process of change should allow for some delay before it happens - I would not support sudden change on this SatuSuro 03:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

• I think its a good idea to combine them, maybe WP:PERTH could become a Task Force. That way we retain article activity(enough to keep them scotlanders off the name) but move the bureaucratic activity into WP:WA, until in the future its redevelops critical mass for independence. Gnangarra 05:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll see what I can find out about task forces - that's probably the best solution. (And whatever way, we must keep WP:PERTH as a lot of links outside of our project go to it.) Orderinchaos 06:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Keep, if that decision is ours to make ... It is conceivable that some editors would only be interested in the scope of that project, just as I have an interest in the 'Western third' of Australia. I rarely use the resources of WikiProject Australia, nor would I be interested in contributing to its talk page. WP:Perth's talk page is a useful resource, especially for new editors - it was for me. The scope of WP:WA may be too large for contributors focused on the Perth region, I do not consider this project to be a sole parent (or antecedent). The point raised about WP:Cities is worth considering, most people live in metropolitan areas (cities) - the scope of state projects is the bit they fly over to get to other cities. I think it is reasonable to suppose that other editors will invest time in that project, there is plenty to do: Flora of the Perth region anyone? cygnis insignis 06:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we're agreed it was useful but no longer is - its talk page is chronically inactive for a project with reasonable scope, and most of the key work gets done through here. It appears the consensus is not strongly in favour of staying where we are, but is in favour of keeping Perth as a separate category within WP Western Australia. It's been suggested that a task force is the best way to resolve this. As such I propose to relocate WP Perth to Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Perth task force, redirecting WP:PERTH to that location also, and reserving WikiProject Perth in the event that demand later requires it. I'm happy to put in any work necessary to resolve any incongruities. Orderinchaos 23:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photo request

I'm looking for a photo of a car registration plate that says "Home of the America's Cup". There must be some still around. —Moondyne click! 02:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye out while driving around Gnangarra 05:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

What a perplexing claim to fame, we should explain that it was due to our "State of excitement". cygnis insignis 06:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Can you imagine what it was like to see advertising with the phrase Relax in a State of Excitement did for us at the time?

As for the number plate I would estimate about 5 percent or less of cars on the road in the metro area would still have that horrible 'auld mug' number plate - and they would be showing signs of wear and tare by now :( SatuSuro 08:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

If this is still needed, I came across one on Flickr with a CC licence: [17] Somno (talk) 06:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Added to Vehicle registration plates of Australia and 1987 America's Cup‎. 10:55, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

A very belated thanks!. Moondyne 09:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Incorporation of WM Australia

Per m:Wikimedia_Australia/Incorporation#Incorporation_meeting, they're proposing to hold an incorporation meeting on either Sunday 13 April or 20 April. Some suggestion of meetups around the country for this. Can we get some Perth people together on one of those dates? (It's literally just before I leave for Melbourne again, so I'm free.) Orderinchaos 14:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Graphic overload

Hi we have an issue at some of our railway line articles where there is now more graphic material than we can cope with - and not a ref or cite in sight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle_railway_line%2C_Perth

I believe as a project we need to have consensus as to graphic information and where we have a limit or not - comments please fellow project lurkers SatuSuro 07:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

One of the images clearly had copyright issues so I removed it. Orderinchaos 08:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

A big problem is the enthusiasm to put duplicate graphic information as well as blocks of info and not one cite or ref is there - SatuSuro 08:07, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Geelong railway line, Victoria is a good example of where the Fremantle railway line, Perth article is heading. Not that I find these articles useful in any way... but they do grow over time. -- Longhair\^talk 08:19, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks u guys for makin me feel bad

Hi Jlong 2008 here!!! the Creater of that map on the fremantle line... Thanks for making a 13yr old's feelings hurt... i put lots of effort into that! There is no coopyright issues in it i think... The bus logo i made my self. The writing is just random writing i found on my puter, i got the colours as close as possible and also... it was made originally for an english assignment! I got lots of praise from my computer teachers and art teachers for that!... they watched me make it!!! so anyway... now I've made ones for all the transperth and transwa lines for no use now! plus i was just making the pages a bit more attractive. One user from the perth thingy said that it would be a great idea for me to make one for every line... which i did! i even made the station signs to go on the station pages.. but who care bout that... now i feel bad bout wat i did... BYE! --Jlong2008 (talk) 08:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Please note that just because you make some images - does not mean they might be - suitable without going through a process to make sure they are ok - there is nothing to feel bad about - you just have to be a bit more patient rather than saying bye - you have to understand there are things about online encyclopedias more than bit more attractive - there are processes to understand what is already in an article - and what can go in and what cannot. If you actually hang around a bit longer than a day - and actually readup - you could well find other areas that your obviously good computer skills could be put to use - just because a couple of us have an issue - does not mean you might not be able to help in other areas - change your mind - stay around and have a look at a bit more - you might be suprised to find there are other area where your skills could be of great help! SatuSuro 08:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It looks good, and you've done a great job with them - nobody ever said otherwise. You've clearly put a lot of work into it. The problem though is that when you upload images to Wikipedia, you're "publishing a work" as far as the law is concerned (whereas with an English assignment it doesn't generally go beyond the school), and once you get into publishing, that comes under laws which say that you cannot exactly copy a corporate symbol, even if you draw it yourself and go to some effort to do so, and then claim it as your work - it still belongs to the company that designed the symbol and they have to give Wikipedia permission to republish it, and to allow others to republish it from Wikipedia. Wikipedia being as big as it is (it's the 8th biggest site in the world according to one of the rankings) can theoretically get sued by copyright holders, and so Wikipedia has come up with a copyright policy in order to protect itself, so that it can remove images which violate that policy and can defend it against claims. That is what has happened here. Like SatuSuro said, there's a lot of different areas to work on and we'd love your help (there's never such a thing as too many volunteers). There's a lot of articles where images are sub-standard or an image is needed where none exists - some of these are listed at Wikipedia:Requested pictures. Orderinchaos 09:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jlong2008

I was thinking about starting again - i thought of making station signs like they do on the sydney and brisbane ststions... is that a good idea?Or Not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlong2008 (talk • contribs) 02:05, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The West Australian

Increasingly cites from wikipedia and this morning (Saturday 15th) - edition an article is written with a refutation of the wikipedia version of west australian political history - it is clearly we are now 'open game' for the journalists of the west to either play with (using full grabs for their info please page)or bat against.

So suggestion - is anyone for a sub page of this project to tabulate hist and misses by local media? It is interesting to note as the West is only local daily neswpaper they even now channel corrections (page 3) - as if they know what they write about - their lifting material from wire sources no longer gets cited (cf the australian) and they write as if they do not have to tell us their sources - perhaps we need to keep them in check when they cite us :| SatuSuro 04:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

What page? Hesperian 05:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

West Weekend Magazine, 15th March 2008, article titled 'Left, said Fred' - first two paras - Wikipedia states that... then second para Fred Riebeling knows better SatuSuro 06:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Page 8. Refers to 2nd sentence in Joseph Gardiner. Big deal. Firey Fred has some inside dirt (apparently unpublished) on Gardiner's motives for departure, but that hardly refutes the article. Also, I think its stretching it to see that as an attack on WP. —Moondyne click! 06:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I never stated specifically attack on wp - more a use for a story starter - SatuSuro 06:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I misunderstood. —Moondyne click! 06:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

No problems, the way I wrote above could be easily taken that way - I still think a sub page on their use of WP in any sense would be an interesting exercise SatuSuro 06:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The thing is, if the West want to use WP, all power to them. Thats what the encyclopaedia is for, after all. —Moondyne click! 06:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Spooky. I knocked this out on thursday. cygnis insignis 07:45, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

---

Okay, I'll try to deal with this in some detail, since I'm the one being quoted. For those who haven't seen it, the article is question is a Len Findlay profile on Fred Riebeling, one of the longest serving members of Parliament in Australia, who is about to retire. The opening couple of paragraphs read

Wikipedia states that Joseph Peter Gardiner's "sudden and still unexplained" departure from WA in 1914 was an important factor in the collapse of John Scaddan's Labor government.

Fred Riebeling knows better.

The longest-serving Speaker in a mainland State Parliament has on his office wall a beautiful picture of Gardiner with his new fiancee, Mary Alice Holman, taken in 1913 when Gardiner was the member for Roebourne. The pair married on May 9, 1914 but never lived together. Riebeling explains: "Her father took Gardiner aside and told him, 'I don't like you and next time I see you I will probably kill you.'

"Gardiner shot through and Labor lost the subsequent election.

The disappointing thing about this is that a superficial read will lead to the impression that Wikipedia doesn't know what it is talking about. However, a more thorough read reveals that Riebeling's position is consistent with ours in asserting that Gardiner's sudden departure was an important factor in the collapse of the Scaddan Government. The only point of difference is that Riebeling reckons he knows why, whereas we claim that it is "still unexplained". Findlay is therefore not saying that the article is wrong. He is trying to show us how Riebeling knows all sorts of stuff that is not mainstream knowledge. In doing so, he holds up Wikipedia as a bastion of mainstream knowledge, and shows how Riebeling knows stuff that even we don't know. I'm prepared to take that as a backhanded compliment.

Secondly, if Findlay wanted to give an example of the insight into WA political history that Riebeling has by virtue of being a long-serving minister, he could have done a lot better than choose an event that happened nearly 40 years before Riebeling was born, and nearly eighty years before he won a seat in Parliament. Findlay insinuates that Riebeling has privileged information, but Riebeling certainly does not. Riebeling wasn't there; he wasn't even born yet. And he doesn't have any privileged access to archival material that isn't also available to the WA parliamentary historian David Black, who writes of how "the governement lost Roebourne to the Liberals on November 17 at a by-election brought about by the mysterious and still unexplained departure from the state of the sitting Labor member" (A New History of Western Australia, p. 386) and how "the Labor Member for Roebourne, J P Gardiner, left the State in mysterious circumstances" (The House on the Hill, p. 100). The fact is, Riebeling is here dealing in parliamentary scuttlebutt, scuttlebutt that Black didn't think worth repeating.

Finally, I see that this has already been added to the article. I agree that it merits adding, but it needs to be done carefully, so as not to attribute Riebeling with more authority on the topic than he actually has. Also, if we're going to add Riebeling's point of view, we might also add Colin Jamieson's, which is that "Gardiner's departure arose from the failed marriage" (The House on the Hill, p. 144).

Hesperian 10:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aboriginal history of Western Australia

To re-jig this all to become a good pair of articles - the history and the timeline need help with copyedit, chasing refs and general cleanup - please join in.

The timeline and the article are symbiotic - and the lead paragraph of the history has yet to be written - and many smaller items in the timeline do not really belong to a west australian article - any suggestions to editing to maintain integrity of the list and article would be apprecited - thanks SatuSuro 02:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Transperth train line map

I am currently making a transperth trainline map like the one on their trains - it will have some extra information on it unlike their one!--Jlong2008 (talk) 09:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Replied at Jlong2008 talk page. —Moondyne click! 10:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal - changes possibly needed

Anyone interested in doing some changes at the portal (so we can take off the under constructions sign?) SatuSuro 00:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I must admit I didn't even know we had a portal... Somno (talk) 01:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Perth, Western Australia

The population figures are being changed almost every day at this stage by IP's - and intrepid admin mark tries to hold the fort - anyone interested in resoliving this issue at all? SatuSuro 12:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, seems the change the anons are making (replacing 1,445,078 with 1,507,900) is actually also from the ABS [18], just they're not referencing it. Somno (talk) 01:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I changed it and added the reference accordingly using the new pop_footnotes field. Orderinchaos 02:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trouble at Perth Mint?

Can I get a review of my revert here please? And perhaps some eyes on the article for the next few days. Hesperian 23:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Good call. Crappy source with the first line saying "Yesterday, I got into a bit of trouble by writing that the NorthWest Territorial mint was bankrupt, which they are not", which is telling methinks. —Moondyne click! 23:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that first line grabbed me too. I finally took the time to read the whole thing, and Crikey! we're in deep here. This is not just a dubious edit to Wikipedia we're talking about; this is the very fulfillment of the prophecy of Revelations 17-18! Hesperian 00:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Somehow I'm not seeing the Whore of Babylon in there :D Any point in getting the site shitlisted at meta? Orderinchaos 00:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Absolute rubbish - well reverted SatuSuro 01:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Stations

Mciver and claisebrook have extra histery on their pages... Midland and Armadale/Thornlie line Stations are now in the works. I'm finally trying new things now .. Yay.--Jlong2008 (talk) 01:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Signpost

For anyone who hasnt noticed - a preponderance of western australian editors starred in credits at the australia wikiproject item http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost SatuSuro 02:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gliding

On a recent hunt for refs for Caversham airfield - found the following - Lance Muir, Richard Duckworth, N. Hyde, (1946?) Flight without power - the art in Australia [videorecording]1 videocassette (VHS) (12 min., 2 sec.) : si., col. with b&w sequences ; 1/2 in. PAL format [State Film Archives collection] Showing the activities of gliding clubs in the various Australian states. Shows local enthusiast, Ric New, and activities at the bases of operations at Lake Pinjar (Pinjar Soaring Club), West Subiaco (WA Flying Club) and Caversham (Perth Gliding Club) in 1941 and 1946. WA segment is appr. 3 mins.

The interesting bit is West Subiaco (WA Flying club) - does anyone have the slightest whether that means a ground - or airfield - anyone know where it might have been ? SatuSuro 02:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

You may be refrring to the Subiaco Aero Club (c.1929) which was associated with Greg Baker and the Maylands aerodrome. See [19] I don't know where it was exactly but it was also known as "Brooklands". —Moondyne click! 03:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

maylands A/f was on the river at the end of the penninsula(hangers became police academy, now workshops)

Caversham is up near whiteman park now RAAF property, still an East west runway, the North/south is now Lord St

Plus the still in use Sth Guildford, Pearce, Jandakot, Yanchep, Murray field. Bit of OR the catalinas used to operate off the foreshore below UWA so it may have been associated with that the foreshore in that area(RPYC - Steve's or the area west) is similar size to the esplanade in the city. Gnangarra 04:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

West Subiaco Aerodrome, McGilvray Oval opposite Perry Lakes and behind CSIRO.[20] There's even a map. —Moondyne click! 07:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

interesting, presume that we need to consider it a potential article. Gnangarra 12:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Thats a brilliant link moondyne - good stuff! Thanks for answering the question with such an inforative link - very spekky SatuSuro 05:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] article

• Burke family (Australian politics) - wondering at a project level whether such style of article should be stand alone - or not? interested in others point of view SatuSuro 05:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The mob has spoken: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Court family, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Burke family - Australian politics. Hesperian 05:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
  • You could add Sarah Burke (Brian's daughter) to that article. She's involved with the state Labor party: she tried for election as State ALP president in 2005 and 2006, but lost both of those times to Sharryn Jackson. - Mark 05:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

How unfortunate - as articles they are neither a proper disambig, nor developed nor referenced nor really notable (in a few senses) - what a rather stupid decision SatuSuro 05:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone? ( rather than putting in a to- do somewhere)

Esplanade_Hotel on wikipedia at the moment links to a (expletives deleted) hotel in melbourne - anyone got the loot on the perth and freo establishments of the same name? SatuSuro 05:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

freo one should have something as it was a restoration for the mug race and is heritage listed[21], the perth one unless its got some other association(architect, criminal event, owner etc) its not really notable. Gnangarra 06:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

also assessment and listing entry Gnangarra 06:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Perth one was very much like the barracks arch for many - the rot had set in - most of the old st geos terrace had been flattened to make way for crud - and the espanade hotel was notable in that it was like the terrace buildings given the chop without much of a bleat from the pollies or any cos here was no legislation to preserve anything at that stage (1972)

Henrietta has enough to make it one of the notable hotesl that got the chop before any legal constraints were available to government to say hey! also connection with harper family,

• Wainwright, Janet. The demolition of Perth's older hotels. West Australian, 30 March 1985, p.16

Bedford Hotel (Perth, W.A.) Esplanade Hotel (Perth, W.A.) Paddington Hotel (Perth, W.A.)

• Controversy over removal of verandas from Perth buildings (1950s on), especially the Esplanade Hotel's verandas. Demolition of the hotel in November 1972.]

Published Gregory, Jenny. City of light, p.114+, SatuSuro 06:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

What about the Esplanade in Albany? I hear that one just got demolished, or is going to be. - Mark 09:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed thats three significantly notable esplanade hotels that need disambiguation and articles, sigh SatuSuro 12:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

And while you're at it, don't forget the Palace Hotel, Perth, which was built on the site of the Freemason's Hotel which was owned by Julian Carr, Mayor of Perth. —Moondyne click! 02:29, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Is that the Grand Palace that's now a posh Chinese restaurant? - Mark 02:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC) No, the palace remains are incorporated into the base of the bankwest tower corner william and the terrace SatuSuro 10:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Palace Hotel, Perth is now up. —Moondyne click! 01:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Major maintenance issue in the Perth task force (um no on pointed it out to me I didnt even see it happen...doh) - there is a potential need to do a list of historical/notable hotels in Perth history - the Esplanade, the Palace, and the remaining facades of hotels on the hay street mall as well - or an overview article that could link - either way - a similar article or list could be done on the former cinemas/theatres - capitol theatre, etc etc - if Perth is gonna be amalgamated with WA - the urban/cbd/ issues need to be somehow sustained as the to do list for Perth CBD still requires work SatuSuro 10:04, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heritage Council of WA website

[22] Seems to have been down for at least the last several days. Does anyone now if its been moved? —Moondyne click! 02:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

No just having trouble to get up again from its changes - dont wait for it - might be a bit longer yet SatuSuro 02:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, its up now. —Moondyne click! 01:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biogaphy issues - other opinions sought

I'd like to invite general comment on the inclusion or otherwise of some material in the Estelle Blackburn article which is questioned by Cygnis Insignis. The details can be seen in the talk page for the article. As I've pointed out on my talk page under the heading BLP this has the potential to affect other articles/references, the "Claremont" article in particular. I also post this to the Australian Wikipedians' notice board Retarius | Talk 06:25, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, only one comment received, from Gnangarra, on the discussion page for the article. I concur with his proposed modification and, as five days is a fair whack of the goanna's tail, I call this meeting closed. Retarius | Talk 08:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Whoa - not yet - general wikipedia procedure which is being usurped here is that third parties who have no interest or involvement close something - not the editor who raises the issue. Please note SatuSuro 00:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the particular change being suggested (Gnangarra's) is reasonable, though on Wikipedia nothing is ever genuinely "closed" as people can continue to edit as they wish. Orderinchaos 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

As an uninvolved third party I'm happy to call this closed. Cygnis isn't around at the moment, so there's no point waiting for his blessing. He can always re-open this upon his return. Five days is plenty of time. Let's make the change and move on. Hesperian 00:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photographs

This may be of interest to people with recent picts of WA, it may also be of interest to watch and maybe contact the photographer if a place needing has a picture added. Gnangarra 11:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Classical/Popular distinction

Anyone have an opinion whether a similar distinction could be made of Perth in comparison with the Brisbane separation:-

• Classical_culture_of_Brisbane
• Popular_entertainment_in_Brisbane

interested in opinions SatuSuro 09:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I think "Classical culture" sounds a bit non-specific and wanky. Is it meant to be a historical article about the culture of Brisbane, or about current (classical) operas and theatre productions etc? Either way, making such a distinction between high-brow and low-brow culture is inherently POV. - Mark 10:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

We don't even have an entry defining or even disambiguating it (yet): classical culture --Melburnian (talk) 10:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

OK ok - I am not endorsing the split - merely observing another project has tried it on and curious about the reaction - perhaps - just perhaps it should have gone to the national project noticeboard just to see the country wide response (at times as quiet as the wittenoom pub bar mind you) SatuSuro 10:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WA Portal

Remember the WA Portal? Well, it would like your suggestions for articles and pictures to feature! If you have a little time, please nominate quality articles and pictures (generally rated B-class and above, but can be Start-class if on an important topic - refer here for criteria) related to WA. The portal is queued to automatically update the selected article monthly, but weekly would be preferable eventually. We can queue large numbers of articles in advance to avoid the need to update it every week. Thanks, Somno (talk) 03:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I am glad someone has the portal on life support. Stuff from me (et al., of course) that is IMO good enough, and mainstream enough, to feature on the portal: Banksia brownii, Banksia epica, Banksia telmatiaea, Banksia rosserae, Banksia victoriae, Banksia violacea, Banksia sessilis, Yagan, Moondyne Joe, John Forrest (but no inline refs), Convict era of Western Australia, Members of the Western Australian Legislative Council, 1832-1870, Tryal Rocks, Flora of the Houtman Abrolhos, North Island (Houtman Abrolhos), Esperance Plains, Mallee (biogeographic region), Warren (biogeographic region). If you get desperate I can provide another ten or so that are up there in terms of quality, but are rather esoteric e.g. Banksia subg. Isostylis. Hesperian 03:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)