Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam

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[edit] Historical subdivisions

Hello all. I'm very excited to see a Vietnamese WikiProject finally assembled. As a Japan scholar, Southeast Asia has always interested me but has always been on the side.. What I guess I'm trying to say is I'm no expert, but I'm happy to be here.

One set of articles which I think could use some serious help from experts are those describing historical subdivisions of Vietnam. I'm afraid I am far from familiar enough with Vietnam's history overall to be able to tackle this alone, so I hope that others can jump in. Some terms which I think need better, clearer, explanations, along with some care taken to accurately represent the overlaps in terminology:

  • Annam - the disambig page looks great, though Annam (Chinese Province) needs expansion, and Annam (French colony) needs some serious cleanup.
  • Cochinchina/Quinam/Quang Nam/Dang Trong -- The confusion between these needs to be cleared and explained. Quang Nam currently only describes the modern-day province, not the historical central-southern section of the country controlled by the Nguyen lords in the 16th-17th centuries. Perhaps the best answer is to create an article at Dang Trong linked to in Quang Nam and Cochinchina and redirected from Quinam.
  • Tonkin/Dang Ngoai -- Most sources I've seen refer to the northern area controlled by the Trinh as "Tonkin" ... Either this article needs expansion, or the Dang Ngoai article should be created to parallel the Dang Trong one, if we make that one.

Confusing, yes. But I'm hoping that some movement can be made on this issue. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks. LordAmeth 11:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Han Tu characters and alternate names for the country.

I understand that Chinese characters are no longer used in Vietnam, but as the language is derived from them, I find them quite useful for understanding the meaning and origin of terms. To seek the origin of the word Annam not purely from its Western sound (which means nothing) but from its Chinese origins (安南 - "the peaceful south", an exonym used by the Chinese to refer to the tributary state to their south) reveals something interesting and useful, I feel. After some searching, I have finally satisfied my curiosity as to the character used for Viet - 越. I understand the meaning behind Vietnam (越南) and Dai Viet (大越), but I have just come across a reference to Dai Nam (大南). Is this simply a synonym, or does it refer to something else? LordAmeth 17:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

During the Nguyen Dynasty, Gia Long asked the Qing Dynasty to change the Quốc hiệu (囯号) to Nam Viet, but was denied and changed to Viet Nam. In 1820, Minh Mang asked to change it to Dai Nam, but was not accepted; however, as the Qing grew increasingly weaker, the Nguyen Dynasty unilaterally used the name since 1839. It was used officially until 1945. Dai Nam means a large Southern nation. DHN 19:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnamese name

I feel glad that a WikiProject for Vietnam has been established after all. There're a lot of things to do. However, I think that we should create a standardize form for Vietnam-related articles first. I have problem using the diacritic for Vietnamese names. For example, User:Sesel renamed Huynh Phu So to Huỳnh Phú Sổ [1] and recently User:Blnguyen has reverted the move [2]. User:DMG413 performed the similar action as Sesel [3] in article Xuân Diệu. I myself created article Nguyễn Nhật Ánh with diacritic. There's a requested move for Thích Quảng Ðức and the result is "keep". IMO I support the diacritic pattern. We need a synchronization in the naming system. AW 09:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, not everyone's keyboard supports the diacritical marks. I have seen a standard somewhere, that says for the English language Wikipedia, the marks should not be used. I will keep looking. Chris 09:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
We have a free software Unikey for solving this. In fact, this problem seems to be widely noticed that there's a impending guideline on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Vietnamese). AW 10:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I say, if you know the diacritics, and you have a vietnamese typing program, then use the diacritics. But create a redirect without the diacritics. The trend is definately towards more respect for other languages' names. Standards that call for some languages like Spanish to be written with diacritics and other languages to be written without them, reflect a US-centric view of the world and should not be used in Wikipedia. If you can't be bothered to type the diacritics yourself then wait for someone else to fix it later. Even if diacritics are not used in the title, they should always be used in the article body if possible. Diacritics may seem silly to English speakers who don't speak the language, but they do mean the difference between Y and D for example, so they are important. I've read a lot of history books which left out the diacritics, and it is very annoying knowing these people's names but not being able to pronounce them because I don't know the diacritics. It was a pleasant change when I read Trần Mỹ-Vân's history book with diacritics on all the Vietnamese and French names (but not the Japanese or Chinese ones :-( ). If the spelling is identical to the English name, including spaces, then use diacritics. If the English spelling removes the spaces though, then maybe you should not use the diacritics (eg. Hanoi). Carl Kenner 20:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I just downloaded WinVNKey, which works great (using Telex mode, which allows you to type a vowel, then an accent or dot or whatever, and it adds the diacritic immediately to the vowel, also in combination). It works better than Unikey for mẹ Badagnani 08:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
You're funny Carl. It's not just a US-centric imposition, but an English-centric one. Last I check the website for the Australian embassy in Vietnam, they omit diacritics! :-) Yellowtailshark (talk) 16:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Annam (French colony)

I am at a loss to know what to do with the old Encyclopedia Britannica stuff in the above article. Should it stay where it is? Could some or all of it go into History of Vietnam? Or should it just be junked? Any suggestions welcomed, or just take bold action. Itsmejudith 20:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to incorporate it as best as you can. I wouldn't trash it, nor would I leave it alone. I've been thinking of doing something with this myself, but I really don't know when I'd get around to it - thank you much for noticing the problem, and please do feel free to be bold and go and fix it. Thanks!! LordAmeth 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
To answer User:Badagnani's question, raised as a note in the above article, the Vietnamese name for the area is not Annam because the French division of the country into Tonkin, Annam and Cochinchina is widely regarded as arbitrary and unjustified. And before the colonial period Annam was one of various Sino-Vietnamese names for Vietnam as a whole. Nowadays if people want to refer to the areas that were covered by the former colonies, they use the neutral terms Bac Ky or Bac Bo (northern region), Trung Ky or Trung Bo (central region) and Nam Ky or Nam Bo (southern region) - sorry I don't have the diacritics to hand. In view of this, I also think it is not correct to add the Han Tu version of Annam to this article, although it should definitely be in the article Annam (Chinese province). The Annam disambiguation page explains it but if it is still confusing - the 19th century French are to blame, not us! Itsmejudith 09:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for this; I would say that if the article is under Annam it's referring to the French colony. Chinese characters were still used by educated Vietnamese during the time "Annam" was used for this division of French Indochina. It's the question of why there's a different Vietnamese name. If it was a French colony why would it have a completely different Vietnamese name, Trung Kỳ (Hán Tự: 中圻)? If it's a different Vietnamese name, I'd say it's not referring to the same entity but instead a roughly matching geographical region. Badagnani 09:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
If we could get a translation of this text, maybe it would explain more about it:
  • Trong lịch sử cận đại, "Annam" được sử dụng trong tiếng Pháp để chỉ phần đất Miền Trung Việt Nam (hay Trung Kỳ) do triều đình Huế của nhà Nguyễn cai trị dưới sự bảo hộ của Pháp. Do thời kỳ Pháp thuộc bị coi là một giai đoạn ô nhục của dân tộc, nên người dân Việt Nam thường hiểu từ "Annam" theo một nghĩa tiêu cực, mang hàm ý miệt thị dân tộc và vì vậy không thích sử dụng nó. Badagnani 10:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
    Translation: "In modern history, "Annam" was used in French to refer to central Vietnam, the area under the administration of the Nguyen Dynasty under French protectorate. Because the period of French domination is considered a period of national shame, Vietnamese people usually consider the term "Annam" derogatory, used pejoratively towards the Vietnamese people, and do not use it. DHN 15:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I've made a small change at Annam (French colony). One more question: was "Trung Kỳ" used by Vietnamese as the Vietnamese equivalent name referring to the same colony as Annam, or was the name applied after the French were defeated? I'm guessing it's the latter. (Or was the term used during the colonial period as well, to spite the French?) If so, that should be made clear in the article. Badagnani 19:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it would help to determine the usage of "Trung Kỳ" to see what http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trung_K%E1%BB%B3 says. Badagnani 20:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
It dates it from 1834. And yes I think it was used by anti-colonial writers (as "Vietnam" was), but we would need a reference. Itsmejudith 20:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
"Nam Kỳ", "Bắc Kỳ", and "Trung Kỳ" had been in use administratively before French colonialism. In 1834, Minh Mang established the three regions. Nam Ky, divided into 6 provinces, is known collectively as "Nam Kỳ Lục tỉnh" (6 Southern region provinces). They were the same 6 provinces that were ceded to France and later becoming Cochin China. After 1945, they're called "Nam Bộ", "Bắc Bộ", and "Trung Bộ", respectively. DHN 21:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's a top importance article?

Would it be useful to agree some basic guidelines here for assessing articles? My assumption is that top importance is reserved for a very small number of articles: Vietnam, History of Vietnam, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam War, perhaps just a few more. Does that mesh with what others are thinking? Then high importance would be all the provinces, other cities, the archdioceses, major hospitals and universities, the historical dynasties, historical figures such as Ho Chi Minh, Ngo Dinh Diem and Vo Nguyen Giap, major tourist resorts, geographical features such as Ha Long Bay, the former French colonies such as Cochinchina. I don't have particularly strong views about the classification but if we are going to make inroads into the assessment then some consistency might be useful. Thanks. Itsmejudith 19:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I personally like the way it's described in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Assessment#Importance scale. I'm not sure if that helps any, of course, but it's the best guideline I've seen to date. John Carter 19:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it does look good. Maybe we could pinch the table layout and find Vietnam-related articles for the examples. Their top class category seems a bit wider than the one I was thinking of in my last post - but it's the consensus and consistency that matters of course. Itsmejudith 20:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Ngo Dinh Diem and Vo Nguyen Giap might be recentism. I would think that in the long run, Trung sisters, Nguyen lords, Trinh lords, Le Loi, Gia Long or Quang Trung had a greater impact. I guess Diem got under the skin of a few more people who were they to record the facts... I can't see how a hospital could be any more than low, unless it was architecturally important. But anyway...Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Belated thanks to people for their comments above. I am going to start doing some more assessments, since the majority of our articles are still unassessed. I've been assessing all province articles as high importance and will continue unless there is any disagreement. Following Blnguyen's comment, I will categorise all hospital articles as low importance unless it is clear that there is something very special about that hospital. I also take the point about recentism, but surely anyone who has had supreme power in the whole country or a major share of it at any period is a figure of high importance? Itsmejudith 23:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Han Tu

Copied from project page
Comment - I've put in Hán Tự for the ones I could figure out. I think it would be less obtrusive to put them in the box as they're not generally used in the modern day (though they're useful for historical and etymological purposes. Can someone figure out how to do that? If we could add a "literal meaning" section in the box as well that would be just great; most of the province names do have Sino-Vietnamese literal meanings though I think at least a few of the southern provinces are probably transliterations of Khmer or Cham toponyms. Badagnani 06:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
If they're shown at all, they must be made absolutely clear that they are no longer used. DHN 07:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Comment - I think it's similar to the condition of the Korean Sino-Korean hanja; though many younger Koreans eschew any use of those characters of Chinese origin, they do contribute immeasurably to an understanding of the words (and the names of most Koreans living today) they were formerly used to write. I do support getting the Han Tu out of the lead paragraphs and into the infobox or an etymology section (for the province articles, if we went with the latter we could use some boilerplate text about the Sino-Vietnamese origin of many/most of the province names). Badagnani 07:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
The situation in Vietnamese is much more extreme than in Korean. It is not taught at all in schools. Currently, there is absolutely no printed media that uses Han tu, either in personal names, place names, or dictionaries. Most people, young and old, do not know any Chinese character. DHN 07:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, interesting. Anyway, I'm fascinated by the etymologies of at least the major place names, and regardless of the decision the Vietnamese educational system has taken over the past 100 years (though I do believe some university students study the old characters, since someone needs to staff the national institute that preserves all of the nation's ancient literature written in this system) that our encyclopedia could be a good source of reference for these etymologies in an Internet where this information is extremely hard to find. Regarding young and old, I do know that my teacher knows the characters to his name and knows many others as well; I think he learned them during the 1950s and 1960s as a Buddhist monk in Vinh Long. Yes, I guess he's the exception, so our encyclopedia could actually help Vietnamese people learn more about this, if they want to. Badagnani 07:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
There's a particularly poignant poem written during the 1930s and later turned into a song that's sung during Tet about a ông đồ già (translation). An ông đồ is sort of like a scribe; during Tet, people would come to him and pay him to write down "parallel lines" of Chinese characters so that they could bring home to display in their homes. As the song goes, every year fewer and fewer people would use his service, and he sits alone in the middle of the marketplace until one year there's no ông đồ anymore. Buddhists are one of the few remaining groups of scholars who still study Chinese characters. I can recognize my name in Han tu (since I know what my name means), but my parents, who named me, wouldn't. I can recognize about 20 other characters, but that doesn't make me some sort of "Han tu scholar"...I just happen to pick them up from Wikipedia. DHN 08:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Wow, that is heavy. I've got to learn more about that song. Regarding names, I was wondering whether it was possible to figure out the meanings of people's names, but I'd guess if one's parents donŖ't know the characters maybe in some cases it's impossible? In Chinese, there are sometimes several different characters for "peace," "happiness," or whatever. Badagnani 08:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Here's a slideshow of the song being sung with pictures of modern-day ông đồ: [4]. DHN (talk) 19:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if the characters for ông đồ are 翁徒. 24.93.170.200 (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm. I definitely agree with Badagnani - the etymologies of placenames, personal names, and other words and terms is quite fascinating, and an understanding of the Chinese characters involved offers huge insights into these meanings and origins. I understand the assertion that these are not used in modern language at all, and I do not disagree with the argument that they should, for that reason, not be present in the leading sentence. Still, for historical topics, i.e. anything that concerns a time when Han Tu were used, I think it would be extremely interesting and useful, if not exactly necessary, to include this information. LordAmeth 10:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Finding out their etymologies is necessary for people using Chinese language. For example, Hà Nội means river interior, and we can trace that Hà (means river) is 河 in Chinese, but not 何/荷. Therefore, 河內 is the only correct translation of Hà Nội. Nevertheless, many placenames with the name Long (e.g. Vĩnh Long or Long An) are translated in Chinese as 隆 (which means prosperity) currently, but I doubted that many of them should be 龍 (dragon). --✉ Hello World! 17:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Do you have access to a library that has a book giving the original Han Tu for the province names? That would solve this problem. For Mekong Delta, I'm sure it's "Nine Dragons" (九龍). Badagnani 17:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, no. It would be great if you can provide them (at least the name of all provinces first). Interestingly, as far as I know, at least 17 places are called 九龍 in China, so there is of little chance that Cửu Long Delta would use 隆.--✉ Hello World! 17:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Yup, Kowloon is etymology the same as the Vietnamese name of the Mekong. DHN 19:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I was asking you because I thought you're in Vietnam and would have more access to these kinds of reference books. Badagnani 17:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I am from Hong Kong, a guy that currently get messed up by those names. In Chinese Wikipedia we don't use Quốc Ngữ as article names, so finding out correct Chinese names is the most important thing before an article can be built. --✉ Hello World! 17:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
OK, we'll do it. I think, though, that in some cases (especially for the province and place names in the far south), that the names aren't Viet, but come from the languages of minority groups (former majorities like Khmers and Chams). So the Viet Han Tu used in the 19th century may differ from the current transliteration used by the PRC, TW, or HK. My teacher is from Vinh Long, so I'm asking him about that right now. You may very well be right that it's not "dragon." Badagnani 17:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Just name a few - Bình Long, Càng Long, Hạ Long, Long An, Long Biên, Long Điền, Long Hồ, Long Khánh, Long Mỹ, Long Phú, Long Thành, Long Xuyên, Minh Long, Phước Long (Bạc Liêu), Phước Long (Bình Phước), Vĩnh Long. Many of them uses 隆 in Chinese articles nowadays (e.g. Vĩnh Long = 永隆), but some of them uses 龍 (e.g. Hạ Long = 下龍). For the names from Khmers and Chams, phonetic translations are okay.--✉ Hello World! 18:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Urgently needed to find the etymology of Long Thành -- I don't know how to name this new airport. Thành can correspond to 成 (success) or 城 (city). The name Long Thành may get 4 plausible translations -- but 3 are wrong. --✉ Hello World! 18:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
This tool is a good one for finding Han Tu, but it doesn't know the exact one for the place names. It just gives all the possible characters a given syllable could be. Badagnani 17:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
See new page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Han tu requests. Badagnani 18:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Long Thành is the name of the town nearby, so I'm inclined to go with 城. Long is probably prosperity or dragon. DHN 19:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
My teacher, who is from Vinh Long, thinks it means "ETERNAL PROSPERITY" or "EVERLASTING PROSPERITY." But he said that the original Han characters have been wiped out from all government records. Badagnani 22:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
What he probably means is that Chinese characters for place name are no longer recorded in government records, as is all written Vietnamese for the past 50 years. I don't think there's any concerted effort to eliminate Chinese written records. DHN 23:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah ha, the first sentence of Vinh Long and Vinh Long Province need to be changed then. -✉ Hello World! 09:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes...I think I'm the one who originally added that, so sorry about that... I'm in touch with the Nom Foundation and they are working on my request for the original characters used for all the "Long" place names. Badagnani 17:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Search for Lost Maps

This might be useful. 19th Unified Dai Nam Map from the National History Book of the Nguyen Dynasty. Source Yellowtailshark (talk) 07:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

How wonderful! Can we use Photoshop to rotate and upload it? Badagnani (talk) 07:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:19th-Unified-Dai-Nam-Map.png Yellowtailshark (talk) 16:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article naming policy

There needs to be a consistent naming policy for article names of Vietnamese place-names and people. Currently some names are written without diacritics, while others have them. While I have no strong feelings toward one or another, we still need to come to a consensus about which format to use. DHN 00:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes. This is listed as Task 3 on the main page, but nobody has commented yet. I think User:Vardion has some thoughts about this, first expressed back in 2005, which have to do with commonly used English (i.e. non-diacritic) spellings for some of the provinces, city names, and other place names. But many more place names are largely unknown to Americans than are well known (via the war or otherwise). Of course, Saigon, Hanoi, Dalat, etc. are usually given in English as single words rather than two, and without diacritics. But the provinces we have both ways. It's confusing. Badagnani 01:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
No diacritics seems to be the convenient thing for me. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
There're plentiful of convenient softwares for you, Blnguyen. @pple 10:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd likely find it more convenient to not use diacritics, but at the same time I do believe that things on wikipedia should be spelled correctly, and that means including the diacritics. I wouldn't mind having to google terms in order to find somewhere to copy-and-paste the correct spelling. LordAmeth 10:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I support diacritics and at least Carl Kenner agreed with me. I think his reason is persuasive. @pple 10:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
It's not hard to make redirects from the non-diacritic spelling, which will take you from Nguyen to Nguyến. I'm using WinVNKey, which I just downloaded a few weeks ago, and it works great (for Vietnamese diacritics as well as French, German, Spanish, etc. ones). Badagnani 00:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) on this matter. Yellowtailshark (talk) 06:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration

Does anyone want to start a monthly collaboration article or anything. One very bad article springs to mind....North Vietnam.....oh and we just got another FA. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Good idea! Chris 03:33, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Good idea. Is this different than doing a translation of a vi:WP article? en:WP has done some good translations of articles from es:WP. Could be possibly start with some of the tasks that need doing, which have been outlined on the WPVN page? Like for example filling out some of the province articles which are just one or two sentences? We now have some good contributors who live in VN and have good sources, and vn:WP usually has more complete articles on VN-related subjects than we do. Badagnani 04:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
A list of articles need translation in newsletter? But I still wonder about the sources. Some individuals just won their fame within Vietnam boundary, so it's hard to find sources in English. According to Wikipedia:External links, non-English materials should be avoided. I'm going to create article for Huy Can. He's prominent, but (sigh)... @pple 18:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
And more: Does anyone care about contemporary Vietnamese politicians rather than historical ones? Nguyễn Tấn Dũng, Phan Văn Khải, Võ Văn Kiệt, Nguyễn Minh Triết etc. all in bad state now. @pple 18:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Had a quick look at Nguyễn Tấn Dũng and it raises a couple of issues. 1) the subject's name is spelt Dzung at one point - I understand what the motivation is, but it is not acceptable to switch between different spellings in one article. It really needs a sound link to the pronunciation to be added. 2) Article uses both UK and American date styles - we should settle on one for the project. Although I'm British I guess that recent Vietnamese publications in English more often use the American style so there is a logic for adopting that. Itsmejudith 13:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd second a collaborative effort for improving articles on some contemporary politicians. Not much is known about them, even in the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia. Most information that can be obtained about them are their official biographies on their Party activities prior to their current position. Their current views and policies are not really well-known unless they've already retired (Vo Van Kiet) or that they're involved in a scandal. DHN 00:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Both Dũng and Phục have unfortunate meanings in English. I think a footnote could be added after Dung to explain that the pronunciation isn't "Dung," but "Yung" (Southern) or "Zung" (Northern) Badagnani 00:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Can we get back to the idea of a collaboration, which User:Blnguyen presented above? Just let us know which article you want us all to work on, and we'll get started. Badagnani 00:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Collaboration is a very good idea. Perhaps we could start with one of the provinces? I have finished assessing them all (as "high" importance). Many are still stubs. I would also like to suggest that we adopt a standard format for province articles. For example, the WikiProject India guidelines for articles on Indian states can be found here and we could simply take that over as standard content for Vietnamese provinces. Note also that all the India-related articles use a standard style for spelling, dates and numbers. Itsmejudith 23:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
This sounds like a good start. Pick a province whose article you feel is particularly deficient and outline some of the things you'd like to begin standardizing on the Indian model. Those of us who read Vietnamese can draw on vi:WP and Vietnamese sources, and we can also link each province's official govt. site (which I assume exist, just like for each province of the PRC). Perhaps some of our members in Vietnam can take photos or find maps as well. Badagnani 23:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Thua Thien-Hue Province could be a good place to start. Many editors are interested in the history, and some of this should be introduced in summary, although most of the detail should be under the Hue city article. It is only a short stub at the moment. I will introduce some headings and put heading-stub templates on them, if that is acceptable. Itsmejudith 18:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kho

Can anyone familiar with this dish help expand the Kho article? Badagnani 02:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moves of all province articles away from diacritics to no diacritis

An editor named Sl has apparently just moved all the province articles that had diacritics in the title to no diacritics, without discussion or consensus. Thoughts? Badagnani 16:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts are that above all we must be consistent throughout this whole project. My preference is also for diacritics, even though I don't yet know how to add them when I edit. Also that where there are diacritics in an article title there should be a redirect from the non-diacritic version.Itsmejudith 17:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Sl just did the opposite. We've got a discussion going on at the project page. I said that for Vietnamese Americans who don't use diacritics, we shouldn't use them in article titles. In other cases they might be desirable in article titles due to the different pronunciations of several letters between English and Vietnamese (such as "d"). Badagnani 17:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I think I misunderstood your post and I should have added my comments on the substantive issue of diacritic use in the proper place for that discussion. On SI's edits, I don't think they were helpful while the discussion is still continuing. It will be a lot of work to revert all of them and I think we shouldn't do that until we have quickly - and friendlily - reached consensus on the diacritics issue. Itsmejudith 17:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I've just dropped the user a line. Badagnani 17:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea. I just don't want to see that some places using diacritics as article names, while some articles are not. Please count me as neutral vote if such vote is held.--✉ Hello World! 17:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right--some titles were with diacritics, and some had none. It's because we never arrived at a consensus yet. Thanks for your work here in enhancing usability between the vi: and en: Wikipedias. Badagnani 17:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Besides, some articles' name contain spaces, and some are not (particularly notable ones). Should they be consistent?--✉ Hello World! 18:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

In English Wikipedia we usually use the most common English rendering (i.e. Hanoi instead of Ha Noi). Or if it's an obscure place and there is no commonly used English rendering, we might use instead the way the province/city itself or the Vietnamese government refer to the name when discussing it in English on their official website or other publicity. Badagnani 18:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Similar incidences have occured at Can Tho and Can Tho Bridge. — Moe ε 17:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you explain in more detail? Badagnani 17:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure. I began editing to improve the article on Can Tho Bridge after the Collapse of Can Tho Bridge occured. Noticing that the article's correct title was Cần Thơ Bridge, I moved the article there. From there I moved 'Collapse of Can Tho Bridge' to 'Collapse of Cần Thơ Bridge' and 'Can Tho' to Cần Thơ' and I moved a related providence to the title with diacritics. I looked at the template listing all providences and cities in Vietnam, and noticed that the majority of the articles had used the naming convention without diacritics, then I read Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). From that, I determined that Can Tho and all related articles should be moved back, so I undid my page moves. Other editors began moving it back to the title 'Cần Thơ Bridge' citing diacritics were alright for titles, and I reverted stating that 'Can Tho' is prefered over 'Cần Thơ' because of the large amount of Vietnam providences and cities titled without the diacritics. Their argument suggests that because there is no 'official English name for Cần Thơ Bridge', diacritics should be used. I stated that there apparently is some kind of consensus, because all the articles are titled without diacritics and pointed them here to discuss it if they wish to furthur pursue it. IMHO, 'Can Tho Bridge', without the diacritics, is an acceptable English spelling (despite it not being official). I don't normally like to do this, but I Google tested it because of the sheer differential. Cần Thơ Bridge pulls up 119,000 results while Can Tho Bridge pulls up 1,630,000. Of that 1,630,000, some are Vietnamese websites or under a Vietnamese domain. That draws me to conclude that English spelling should be used for these articles titles. — Moe ε 18:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese) on this matter. Yellowtailshark (talk) 06:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment classes

I've assessed Agent Orange as mid-importance and think that Agent White and the others should be low-importance. Do others agree? And what importance do we give to the articles on languages and language groups, e.g. Chamic. I don't want to assess too many that will have to be changed later. Thanks. Itsmejudith 20:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mì Quảng question

What are the noodles used for Mì Quảng made from? Rice flour and turmeric? Any other ingredients such as wheat or tapioca flour? Does anyone have access to a package of commercially available noodles or can look this up in Vietnamese or ask someone who knows? Badagnani 06:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

It has egg in it. and probbaly other stuff. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Châu Thành

I am interested why there are 9 counties in Viet Nam called Châu Thành. Anyone know? -✉ Hello World! 17:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Arrest_and_assassination_of_Ngo_Dinh_Diem

I'm hoping to get this to FA in time for November 2, when he was killed. There's never been a VN FA on the main page before. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paddy field

The Vietnam section in the above article has been expanded, but the English is not good and in several places I'm not clear what is intended. Does anyone have time to help out? Itsmejudith 21:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help on Wiktionary

If anyone wants to help out in regards to checking Vietnamese translations on Wiktionary, it would be much appreciated - we're developing something of a backlog: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Translations_to_be_checked_%28Vietnamese%29 Any help would be great. Thanks! Black-Velvet 11:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article in Vietnamese needs translation: Gia đình phật tử

There's a page written in Vietnamese, Gia đình phật tử, which is on AfD right now because it has gone untranslated for a month. You can comment on whether it should be deleted here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gia đình phật tử. (Cross-posted also to User talk:Blnguyen) Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh 01:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Southeast Asian cinema task force

The Southeast Asian cinema task force was recently started as a joint project of WikiProject Films and WikiProject Southeast Asia. Editors who are writing about Vietnamese films are welcome to join the project, where they will find support for collaboration on new articles and the expansion and promotion of existing articles. — WiseKwai 11:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnam people! Please see this map

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qing_Dynasty_map.png ( Source from Qing )

Dark Green: Qing China

Light Green: affiliated states

Vietnam was affiliated states of Qing China? is it true? Heinekenbeerlover 13:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure it is. I don't know that much about the details of the history of that period, but as Viet Nam was long a part of the Sinosphere, I'd be surprised if that did not remain true into the Qing period. Whether they could be called a tributary, a vassal state, a colony, an ally, or anything like that I do not know, but Viet Nam was most assuredly within the Chinese cultural sphere as it had been for centuries. LordAmeth 22:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Resolved.[5] --Nightshadow28 (talk) 16:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] City infobox

It appears that an editor is attempting to create a Vietnamese city infobox at Thai Nguyen. While we have a province infobox, I don't believe we have a Vietnamese city one (though Vietnamese Wikipedia appears to). Can someone help him/her? Badagnani (talk) 03:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Huỳnh Công Út

The article on Huỳnh Công Út, aka Nick Ut, starts with the explanation:

This is a Vietnamese name; the family name is Út, but is often simplified as Ut in English-language text. According to Vietnamese custom, this person properly should be referred to by the given name Công or Nick.

Now, I read in Vietnamese name that Vietnamese names generally consist of three parts: a family name, a middle name, and a given name, used in that order.

"Generally" doesn't mean "always". Is Huỳnh Công Út one of the exceptions, or is the explanation at the top of his article wrong? Anyway, what's the correct order for his Vietnamese name? If the article were to refer to him by his Vietnamese name (which in his case strikes me as pedantic), by which one of the three names should he be repeatedly referred? -- Hoary (talk) 04:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

The explanation on top of his article is wrong. Fixed. Huỳnh is a common Vietnamese name, but if you were to refer to him as a Vietnamese person (not applicable in this case since he lives in the US), he would be referred to by his given name, Ut. DHN (talk) 04:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you! -- Hoary (talk) 22:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lý Nam Đế

(Will also be posted to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China.) There is an anonymous editor who insists on (without discussion) removing Chinese characters and pinyin of Lý Nam Đế. Now, before I am to treat this person as a vandal, I'd like to get some general feelings about this. If you can, please discuss the issue on Talk:Lý Nam Đế. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unilateral article title changes

Alert, people--I know it's the holidays but User:JacquesNguyen is moving many articles unilaterally (typically adding diacritics to the new titles). See edit history. There was no agreement on this previously; however, he does not participate in this WikiProject yet works on many Vietnam-related articles, where he has become known for massive blanking, use of bad language, and uncited copying of swathes of text from published history books in articles he has begun. Please turn your attention to this and take action if you believe it necessary. Badagnani (talk) 23:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

He is still doing this. Is it not time for us to reach a consensus on the diacritics issue? I am generally pro diacritic on the grounds that people who speak Vietnamese or are learning it (even at a very basic level, e.g. for use on holiday) frequently need the diacritics in order to distinguish different words or even to get anywhere close to a comprehensible pronunciation. Therefore I don't particularly see the user's page moves as vandalism. We must keep a close eye out for any blanking, bad language or plagiarism though. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Chinese chess players

This category name is highly confusing, since Chinese chess is the common English name for a different board game, and one would naturally expect it to be filled with players of Chinese chess. Any suggestions on renaming it? 70.51.9.174 (talk) 07:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

How about Chinese chess (Xiangqi) players Yellowtailshark (talk) 11:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_January_5#Category:Chinese_chess_players for discussion. 70.55.87.75 (talk) 05:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories

I have recursively dug up all teh categories under Category:Vietnam and I have made a request for SatyrBot (talk · contribs) to periodically sweep these cats and tag all of them with {{WPVN}} which should make things a lot more convenient, so that we don't have to find as many new articles by hand. If there are other cats which are "fully" (or almost fully) containing WPVN articles, then feel free to add it to the list in Alphabetical order, so that there are no duplicates and double-runs by the bot. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That's great, thanks. Badagnani (talk) 03:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories2 - these ones are not so obviously synonymous with WPVN and would have to be checked manually on a case by case basis.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

SatyrBot has done the run on the first 100 cats and the number of articles in teh project has jumped by around 500! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnamese Americans etc in {{WPVN}}

Hi there. Badagnani has added quite a few poker players and other people of Vietnamese descent with the Viet wikiproject and I was wondering what you thought about these being in the scope of the project. My personal opinion is that poker players, Vietnamese American politicians and businessmen shouldn't be in WP:VIET because they don't operate inside Vietnam/none of their notability is related to Vietnam (unless they were notable when they were still in VN). I think Vietnamese language singers, eg Nhu Quynh might be in the scope of the project since they are propagating Vietnamese culture. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

There is an argument for including the politicians because their notability reflects upon the standing of the Vietnamese-American community. Nothing such for the poker players. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I reverted this on Ahn Do and Khao Do, with the logic that being born in Vietnam but moving to Australia, residing in Australia, working in Australia, etc., means that they really don't fall under the scope of this project. Many (most?) Australian sportspeople are born in Europe; many of our football (soccer) players are born in Italy. But we don't tag them for WP:ITALY. The same should, I think, apply here. Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 00:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Most of the poker players were born in Vietnam. It is important that they be tagged for WPVN, because they are Vietnamese people--and the WikiProject is for articles related to Vietnam, its culture and people. We don't have a WikiProject for "people who are from Vietnam, but live in a different country," so of course WPVN is the most appropriate WikiProject to place them in. WPVN serves as a tool to draw editors interested in Vietnam and Vietnamese culture and people to easily find and improve such articles. I am such an editor, and those articles are absolutely of relevance and interest. Badagnani (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
No, the most appropriate project for "people who are from Vietnam, but live in a different country" is the project for the place they now reside in. Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 02:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The country from which their notability is derived.....thus, US soldiers killed in Vietnam are listed under {{WPVN}} since their notability comes from fighting in Vietnam, Overseas Vietnamese [VN born or not] who sing Vietnamese music are categorised as {{WPVN}} whereas overseas Vietnamese (born in Vietnam or overseas) who do English language hip-hop or play poker are not. Whereas a US general leading troops in Vietnam or a German professor who is known for research into Vietnamese history would be {{WPVN}} as well as their home country of operating, since they plan/work from their home country. A person who was only a kid in VN or was born overseas derives none of their notablity from VN simply from racial affiliation. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I can claim a mandate to remove these. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:13, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese-derived scripts and Vietnamese names

This is becoming an issue. Some users, such as User:Badagnani and some nationalistic Chinese editors, indiscriminately add Chinese characters to Vietnamese proper names, regardless of their etymology and irrelevance. Other users, such as User:JacquesNguyen and his sockpuppets, attempt to remove all semblance of Chinese characters, regardless of its appropriateness. There needs to be a policy on this topic. To prevent misunderstandings, here are the facts:

  • Chinese-derived scripts are totally absent in modern Vietnamese. This is in contrast to Korean, where students do learn them in school and Hanja characters are used, if only sparingly; or Japanese, where Kanji is regularly used. The chance of Chinese scripts making a comeback in Vietnamese is slim to none.
  • Some proper names are pure Vietnamese words or are derived from non-Chinese languages.
  • Most Vietnamese official documents prior to the 20th century were written in Classical Chinesse, this resulted in some native names being approximated with a near-sounding Chinese character. Other writers used Nom characters to record the proper pronunciations of the names.

First of all, I think it is improper to use Chinese-derived scripts on place names or people that did not exist 100 years ago. Second of all, while I think it is proper to include information on how a certain name was rendered in the past, putting it in the lead sentence gives undue weight to what essentially is a trivial fact. Putting it there is more likely to misinform than inform readers - it implies that Chinese-derived scripts are somehow relevant and is still widely used. Lastly, mentions of Chinese characters should provide sources - since they seem to be pulled out from the Chinese Wikipedia. Some names derived from a non-Chinese language were transcribed in Chinese for administrative purposes, but modern Vietnamese provides a truer representation of how the Vietnamese pronounced those words. DHN (talk) 19:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

To have a truly encyclopedic article, well-sourced original-script names are essential and extremely valuable to have a true etymology of each toponym (as we have, for example, for all of the U.S. states, many of whose names originate from other languages). Yes, some names derived from a non-Chinese language were transcribed in Chinese for administrative purposes, and these are also quite valuable to document for our users. The implication that any user who insists on complete documentation of the etymology of Vietnamese toponyms (as we do for all other place names in the world) is doing so out of some nationalistic purposes is quite disturbing, and should be taken back immediately. Many of these original sources (written in "nom" characters) still exist and preserve hundreds, if not thousands of years of Vietnamese history. As stated previously at least three times, the characters may be listed in a separate section entitled "Etymology" or "History," rather than in the lead. Finally, the characters added are not Chinese; they are Sino-Vietnamese. That is an important distinction. They were used in official documents written by Vietnamese, for Vietnamese, for Vietnamese use and reading. Asserting otherwise is disingenuous. Badagnani (talk) 20:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
But in the case of short articles, which is the case in most of these instances, the one sentence of etymology takes up about 25% of the article and makes it undue weight anyway. Clearly we are focusing on unimportant things too much. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Why is it in the lead sentence of all the province articles when the province structure was created under a modern government?? They should be removed or relegated. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Which article are you speaking of? In most place name articles, it might be better if the etymology is moved to a section titled "Etymology" or something similar. Badagnani (talk) 20:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not calling you or anyone else who randomly add Chinese characters to articles about Vietnamese people (like [6] this) nationalists. I'm referring to people like this guy who had been making edits that claim that the Vietnamese people originate from China. In vi.wiki, he's been adding Chinese characters to every single proper name imaginable. DHN (talk) 20:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I fully respect your motives Badagnani, but I have to agree with DHN on this one. I know that in the early 20th century every Vietnamese place name, even the smallest hamlet, had a name in Chinese characters, but that is only one aspect of the etymology of the place name. Giving the Chinese characters might imply that we think that this is a more important part of the place name's evolution than it actually is. It is a very interesting thing to research but I'm not convinced that WP is the best place for it. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I happen to agree with Badagnani on this one, at least as far as it pertains to historical topics. As a historian of pre-modern East Asia with a strong interest in Viet Nam (and as someone who is pretty good with kanji but knows nothing of Vietnamese written in the modern alphabet-based form), I find these things very interesting, if not out-and-out important. What purpose is served by not providing this information? Are we not here to share knowledge with the world? Withholding the Hán Tự is no different I think from withholding the diacritics, pronunciation guide, or in fact, any other aspect of the topic whatsoever. More to the point, please don't jump to conclusions and accuse people of pushing a nationalist agenda, introducing politics into a situation where it may not be relevant. We have a policy on Wikipedia called Assume good faith. I suggest you consider practicing it. LordAmeth (talk) 14:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't mind moving such information down in the articles to a section entitled "Etymology" or "History" or something, rather than including it in the lead (as it is currently in most of the province articles). Blnguyen is adding names of the districts now and those should have their place name etymologies dug up and given as well, as it seems clear that many of them have interesting etymologies. Badagnani (talk) 16:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Do please consider helping to insert the area size and population stats and other information before the Etymology please.... WP:UNDUE is becoming a massive problem. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 21:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
It could be a good idea to put the Han tu names in Etymology sections. I wonder if there are enough good sources for place name etymologies. As I understand it, by the 19th century Vietnamese villages had to have a name that "made sense" in Chinese, at least to the extent that it could be written in characters. That led to some alteration of the originals that were either in Vietnamese or in a minority language depending on where they were located. I have some familiarity with English and French placenames. There is an English Place Names Society and there has been a great deal of research over the years. Even still, there are many folk etymologies still quoted in guidebooks. Also, there have been several disputes in WP over the etymologies of Indian town place names. It would be good if we could avoid that in relation to Vietnam articles. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, God, no--multiple sets of characters for place names (old and new)? What a mess. Now I see why they went to quoc ngu. In any case, old sources do still survive so this can be a cumulative process. In many cases, such as Hạ Long or Cửu Long, the place names are well known and easy to figure out (and, of course, interesting). Badagnani (talk) 21:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I have just removed your "Han Tu" note for Cửu Long. This province was created in 1976 when Vietnamese did not use Chinese characters for a long time, so why does it need that note. Maybe you misunderstand this province with the "river" vi:Cửu Long Giang, in that case, a Chinese characters (九龍江) is necessary because it existed before 1945. Rungbachduong (talk) 00:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Shall we attempt to establish a set guideline on this? I would like to propose that Chu Nom be included, either in the lead sentence in parentheses or in a sidebar infobox as is done for CJK topics, for those historical topics whose names are derived from Chinese, and for which the Chu Nom is thus relevant. I'm not positive what the cut-off year should be, though, as I'm not that familiar with the history of the language. Of course, if people don't like my proposal (or my wording), other proposals should be most welcome. What is most important, I think, is that we establish a guideline, whatever form that may take. Thank you. LordAmeth (talk) 10:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

We should have a chữ nôm and hán tụ box with an explanation what they are and when they are relevant (for example, chữ nôm is relevant for historical documents dating between the 13th- and 20th-century). While I understand DHN's concern for irrelevance or misleading Chinese origins, the Chinese have documents that talk about Vietnam as well, and I find it frustrating to see articles like Nanyue written completely in pinyin which is spelled differently than using quốc ngữ. I have to raise my Chinese literacy level just to understand that Ōuluò refers to Âu Lạc. I see that there is a discussion of a suggested infobox below. Yellowtailshark (talk) 02:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Districts of Vietnam

They should all exist now. Hopefully the lists I was using was correct. A double-check would be nice. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

This is incredible. Wish someone would do this for all the missing counties in China :) Badagnani (talk) 00:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Well the articles were really basic and could have been written a bot. Then it would have taken about 2-3 hours instead of about 15-20. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
And SatyrBot (talk · contribs) has stamped them. Districts are 2nd level divisions in VN, and Phuong are 3rd level, about 10500 of them......As far as WP:AUS goes, third level divisions (suburbs, corresponding) have articles - most have been created. And with 10,500 phuong around, that makes about 8500 Vietnamese people to a phuong, so, they're notable too if anyone wants to get cracking. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, just having the stubs allows users (including Wikipedians who actually live in these parts of Vietnam) to easily add information, more and more. Badagnani (talk) 03:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need diacritics

At Thach Thi Ngoc. Badagnani (talk) 05:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

This article lacks references and the person might not be notable besides being an Olympian. We need some record that shows that she was indeed an Olympian. This article gives her name as "Ngọc Thị Thạch". DHN (talk) 06:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The article was added by User:Bnguyen. Badagnani (talk) 06:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

That user had been adding many articles on many non-notable people, such as "first Vietnamese-American solder to die in Iraq", "first Vietnamese-American police officer of a city", etc. When an article he created is about a notable person, his description of them does not make it clear how they're notable; for example, his description of Nguyen Khanh was that he was born in South Vietnam and is an ardent anti-communist. DHN (talk) 06:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
And random council staffers in Garden Grove etc, etc. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TET! TET! TET IS COMING!

thumb|200px|right|EATTTT!!! Hmm, am I the only one who feel overjoyed when Tet is coming? :)) Should we do something to celebrate the happiest time of the year? I have one week off, hooray!!! First we begin with banh chung. I found a very "delicious" image for those who find it impossible to colLect enough stuffs to make banh chung on their own. I can't find a free image, though, but I'll take a photo of my banh chung as my grandfather finishes cooking them all. @pple complain 16:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The article Tết needs a serious overhaul. It has accumulated a lot of cruft over the years. DHN (talk) 17:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Write a few FAs, As and GAs. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikimedia inside Vietnam

@pple - are you in Vietnam? I was wondering what Wikimedia activities occur inside Vietnam to get more participation by Vietnamese people in Wikipedia projects. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Attention

An editor is removing Vietnamese American categories. I believe Vietnamese who have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years are usually U.S. citizens. Sometimes s/he is replacing "Vietnamese Americans" with "Vietnamese expatriates" and sometimes replacing it with "Vietnamese immigrants to the United States," but in all cases removing "Vietnamese Americans" from dozens of articles about individuals who are most likely U.S. citizens. Can others please chime in or invite this individual to create a discussion here before doing such a thing? Badagnani (talk) 04:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Immigrants to the United States

Hello. I m at work adding to Category:Vietnamese immigrants to the United States to complete work on Category:Immigrants to the United States. Several pages for Vietnamese in the U.S. are not specific on whether the person has gained citizenship or not. I ll take advice provided me and assume for now that people who have lived more than 5 years in the States have gained citizenship (including the large number of pro poker players most of whom seem to have arrived in the U.S. for poker and not because of the dislocation of the 1960s and 70s) Best regards Mayumashu (talk) 04:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, why not just wait a day or two until others with expertise in this subject chime in here? Badagnani (talk) 04:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Well immigrants do not have to have citizenship to be considered immigrants. There is such as thing as "undocumented immigrants" (or more pejoratively, "illegal immigrants"). Regardless, they are still immigrants. There is also a sizable number of Vietnamese Americans who are lawful permanent residents but who are still working on getting their citizenship. The citizenship waiting list is backlogged, so it's not unusual to hear stories of people waiting for 10 to 20 years. Yellowtailshark (talk) 02:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need assistance with ingredients

Need help with partly-untranslated text at Mi Quang: "Pork chops are mixed with ground củ nén, pepper, peanut oil, curcuma aeruginosa powder and màu điều. Stir- frying it fast and simmering it. (Need English for bold items.) Badagnani (talk) 05:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with the article is its lack of sourcing. Curcuma aeruginosa could well be a poor translation, when it is simply turmeric that is meant. I'm sure that pork chops is a mistranslation and it is really ground or sliced pork that is meant. If you don't have access to the original, then it would be best to shorten the stub to the bits that seem certain. WP isn't a how-to manual, so we don't need to include all the ingredients. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the text will be fine when we figure out what the Vietnamese means. It's normal to list what is in Asian dishes. Turmeric should be củ nghệ in Vietnamese. Badagnani (talk) 19:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Operation Camargue‎

FAC for this battle in the First Indochina War is open. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need help at Cao Lanh

Second paragraph seems to mention (redlinked) a province that no longer exists. Badagnani (talk) 01:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Since 1976, Vietnamese provinces have been merged, separated, remerged, re-separated, spun off, etc. countless times. For an analysis of the reasons behind this phenomenon and an overview of the changes made since French colonial times, see Gerrymandering - Vietnamese Style: The Political Motivations behind the Creation of New Provinces in Vietnam. DHN (talk) 07:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] To be done

All the province articles need the correct district templates (the olive-colored ones that are in all the district articles) for that district.

Also, all the redlinks in all the province articles need to be dab'ed. Can that be done by bot? Badagnani (talk) 02:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


I recently created the pages water buffalo (zodiac) and cat (zodiac), then created a new category called Vietnamese astrology. I think this category should be added to the list of Vietnamese categories, but I do not want to do it because I'm not sure the best way.

Also, I added Vietnamese references to ALL the Chinese zodiac animals (see the categories at the bottom of pig (zodiac), for example). The close relationship between Chinese and Vietnamese zodiac animals makes it difficult to deal with. Should the Chinese zodiac animals be considered the same as the Vietnamese animals (except for water buffalo and cat), or should separate pages be created for the Vietnamese (and Thai, Japanese, etc.) animals, with cross-links to the Chinese pages?

Also, a table like the Chinese zodiac table would be nice:

The twelve animals

of Chinese astrology:
Rat Ox
Tiger Rabbit
Dragon Snake
Horse Sheep
Monkey Rooster
Dog Pig


I do not know anything about Vietnamese culture, so I hope I have not made any errors in doing this. I will watch this page for a week or so. Best regards Wakablogger (talk) 06:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Wakablogger

[edit] suggested infobox

{{{boxtitle}}}
{{{img}}}
English {{{eng}}}
Quoc ngu {{{qn}}}
Han tu {{{ht}}}
Chu nom {{{cn}}}
French {{{fr}}}


-Suggested general historical infobox. say at template:vietnamese 132.205.44.5 (talk) 03:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Although some articles would be useful with template:chinese as many of the historical articles seem to cover southern China as well as northern Vietnam. 132.205.44.5 (talk) 04:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Needs diacritics

Chao tom. Badagnani (talk) 07:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. Ím on the diacrtic comptuer atm with VNKeys. Blnguyen (photo straw poll) 07:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MongHoa dress

Do we need an article on this kind of traditional Vietnamese dress? I can't seem to get the diacritics from the photographer--does anyone know them? Badagnani (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

There's a valley called "Mường Hoa" in northern Vietnam and I'm guessing that dress is a traditional Mường costume. The model in the photo appears to be an ethnic Kinh wearing an ethnic costume of the Muong. DHN (talk) 19:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks; as you can see from the discussion, she claims it's entirely Viet. She's perhaps just a high school student and doesn't know better. If Muong, though, why didn't she put the "ư" in the first syllable? Personally, I think it's a form of malpractice for Flickr users to upload photos and fail to adequately describe them, even after being asked. Badagnani (talk) 19:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

If it's an ethnic Vietnamese dress, I'll eat my hat. One of the comments said "[it makes you] look more like an ethnic [minority] girl than a kinh girl". DHN (talk) 19:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Definitely a minority ethnic costume. Blnguyen (photo straw poll) 00:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't see where she referred to it as an ethnic Vietnamese costume. In other photos in the gallery where she's in that costume, she jokingly referred to herself as "Gái Bản" (Bản girl)[7]. Bản is a Vietnamese term for a mountain village, particularly indicative of the minority ethnic groups of Vietnam (another useful word is nương, referring to agricultural land in the mountains). DHN (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

If anything, she was cagey. I asked if it was Mong (Hmong) or Hoa (Chinese), and she just said, "it's a traditional dress of my country." What she should have said was, "No, you got the wrong ethnic group; it's not Hmong or Chinese, but Muong." That would have been the clearest and most factual explanation. Badagnani (talk) 04:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Đại Nam

What is the translation of Đại Nam? "Great South"? Badagnani (talk) 04:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 04:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] SatyrBot

I'm not sure why, but this bot keeps adding {{WPVN}} to the article List of Blood+ characters. This article is a character list of the Japanese anime television series Blood+ --Farix (Talk) 12:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be some malfunction. The bot is tagging articles in the cats listed at User:Blnguyen/VN but I don't see any cats in there that would be triggering this. Can you? Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 00:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I see. Carl Fei Wang is categorised under Vietnamese manga, but redirects to the List article, and the bot seems to be following the cat in the redirect page and stamping the target page. I've removed the cat in the redirect. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 00:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
The other reason may have to do with story: A few episodes are set in vietnam and deal with the vietnam war and the main characters role in the slaughter of US troops and vietnamese civies. That may have something to do with it, but that is only a guess. 75.26.19.213 (talk) 04:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wok

Is there a vi:WP article for Wok? Badagnani (talk) 02:13, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Point of clarification

Should USS New Jersey (BB-62) be tagged as being within this projects scope? It was present for a year or so, hence the question. 75.26.19.213 (talk) 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that should be ok, since a large chunk of the article is about the NJ's service in Vietnam. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 05:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I didn't actually see it there in the talk history at all. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 05:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Does this mean that every ship that made a deployment to/off of Vietnam during the Vietnam War falls under the scope of this project? Even if they don't, I would believe that USS Newport News (CA-148) does since the last half of her service history was spent on the gunline off Vietnam. -MBK004 00:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I haven't been tagging every soldier or every boat that was in Vietnam, and I haven't systematically checked yet, but if something spent 30% of their working/notability career in Vietnam, then that seems like a reasonable rule of thumb to me. The other exception was that there were a few soldiers whose bios sole notability was because of them dying in Vietnam and being posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor so since all their notability was from activities in VN, they were blanket included included. As were the recipients of the "Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry" although most of them were Americans who were awarded by the RoV govt. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 01:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
eg, there were some Infantry units that were categorised as "Units in the Vietnam War" but I skipped over it because the VN War section was about 10% of the article. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 01:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
That makes sense. By the 30% threshold, Newport News does apply (not tagged for this project as of this edit), but I'm not sure about the carriers that were on Yankee or Dixie Station. -MBK004 01:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to be bold and tag Newport News for this project, per the 30% threshold. I'll leave the assessment to the members of this project. -MBK004 01:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi, all. A SatyrBot (talk · contribs) tagged the article Iowa class battleship as being within this projects scope, I'm guessing as a result of the tagging of New Jersey for her role in the vietnam war. As Iowa class battleship is presently a Featured Article I wonder if I may imposes upon one of this projects members to fill in the importance of the article to this project? I am not familar with you importance scale, and I doslike leaving empty parameters in talk page banners when the article in question is Featured. Thanks in advance. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed it as a false positive and put a repel notice on the page. The bot was tagging based on the VN war cat, but in this case, teh article has only a minor mention of vietnam. Less than 5%. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 09:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cochin reference in primary source

I apologize to ask a question not directly related to our Wikiefforts, but I am hoping that someone can help me out. I am currently reading a Japanese primary source document concerning relations between Edo period Japan and pre-colonial Vietnam. I have come across a reference to 交趾 (Giao Chỉ; the "Cochin" of Cochinchina), and while the editor's notes in my text explain that this refers to the capital of "Annam" at the time, I am not quite clear whether it refers to the Le, Trinh, or Nguyen capital, or whether it is something of a metaphor for the Trinh north as a whole, Nguyen south as a whole, or both together, i.e. Vietnam as a whole.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated. Thank you. LordAmeth (talk) 06:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Just in case it might be helpful to anyone, here's the original text I'm working from: 「慶長六辛丑年より、海外数ヶ国入貢、夏交趾舶来る、當御代海舶の来る始なり」With the inscribed editor's note: 「按ずるに、前に辨せし如く、交趾は安南の都城の地なり」. LordAmeth (talk) 06:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much, the only book I have about that time is "Nguyen Cochinchina" by Li Tana, which talks at length between the strong trading relations between the Nguyen and the Japanese, especially through the pot of Hoi An (aka Faifo). In the old days, Cochinchina meant Nguyen territory in general. I dunno when Edo is either, but this commerce was in the 1600-1650 year range. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 06:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. I should have specified what I meant by Edo period (1603-1868). I've read Li's book - it's very useful and interesting. The problem is that my Japanese dictionary indicates that the term 交趾 refers to Tonkin/Hanoi, while everything else I know (such as the Western use of the term Cochinchina) points to the southern portion of the country. ... LordAmeth (talk) 00:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] SatyrBot issue

User:SatyrBot is auto-adding the Template:WPVN on the talk page of article Policies, activities and history of the Philippines in Spratly Islands. I believe that article is not covered by WP:VIET's scope. It's about Philippines only. Read my conversation with User:SatyrTN here, for my arguments why that article is not covered with your scope. The template is not yet deleted, I'll wait for your reply. Thanks Estarapapax (talk) 16:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, a false positive. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 03:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FACs

Are substantially about Vietnamese history. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 04:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Undiscussed page moves (again)

Once again, we've got an undiscussed page move (here) to a title with diacritics, by an inveterate undiscussed-page-mover. Is this going to continue? Badagnani (talk) 00:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

To support Vietnamese tone marks. The one who doesn't know this is not intellegence. Also, this one hates me so he tries to eliminate me. JacquesNguyen (talk) 01:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't think diacritics should be used on things that are half English, eg Ca River, since River is clearly English. Same for provinces. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 01:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
No-one here hates anyone, Jacques Nguyen. I support diacritics and wish we could agree to use them consistently throughout - including in cases when half the word is English. But I'm looking for consensus on this. Let's discuss it properly and not fall out. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
That would mean we would need to omit the diacritics on Hồng Bàng Dynasty and just about every other dynasty listed in the history of Vietnam? The only reference to Cả River when I googled for it is the Wikipedia article itself (hah! go figure). Ca River is mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica as well as this paper from the National University of Laos. I'd like to build up a consensus on this issue on this talk page. Yellowtailshark (talk) 04:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need location

What is the modern-day location of "Sa Nam village, Ðông-liệt District, in the region between Mount Hùng and the Lam River," the birthplace of Phan Boi Chau? Badagnani (talk) 20:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Nghe An Province somewhere. Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 01:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FACs

Are substantially about Vietnamese history. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Bac Thai" Province

Hello. I'm researching the Tonkin Snub-nosed monkey, a monkey species endemic to Northern Vietnam. Animal Info says it only occurs in "Tuyen Quang and Bac Thai provinces". I can find Tuyen Quang Province, but there is no Bac Thai Province or anything similar. Was it renamed? Or is it a spelling error? Thanks if you can help me --80.108.59.151 (talk) 09:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC) (de:Benutzer:Bradypus)

User:DHN points out that there has been an epidemic of politically motivated province-splitting that the government of Vietnam has conducted over the past 30 years. If you look at Provinces of Vietnam you'll see two small provinces adjacent to Tuyen Quang Province: Bac Kan Province and Thai Nguyen Province. They probably used to be a single province. Badagnani (talk) 09:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Here's some confirmation of this: [8]. Badagnani (talk) 09:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your help, Badagnani. You were right, according to this website, which I found right now, Bac Thai have been split into two provinces: Bac Kan and Thai Nguyen. But thanks nevertheless. --80.108.59.151 (talk) 11:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CJKV taskforce

The CJKV taskforce has been created to assist in disambiguation of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese when using Kyūjitai, Hanja, Hán tự, Simplified Chinese, and Shinjitai (Kanji). If you wish to participate, please come and help out. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 24 solar terms

Does the article 24 solar terms need to be added to the project? I would find it useful if someone could comment on the relevance of this concept in contemporary Vietnam and/or the diaspora. I found it linked at Cross-quarter day, where European and east Asian calendars are linked in some pure original research. Thanks. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

They are rarely-used but are often-heard-of concepts. One popular misconception is that the dates are based on the Chinese calendar; this is not so: solar terms are purely based on the movement of the sun, so the dates will be the same (give or take a day) every year in the Gregorian calendar - it's the Chinese calendar dates that will vary each year. DHN (talk) 15:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I knew you would know. Please add the project banner to the article if you think it appropriate. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question: "Thin-Hao" near or part of Hanoi

I have a question. There is a French chessplayer (and half-Vietnamese) César Boutteville, born 1917 in "Thin-Hao" near or part of Hanoi. I could not find anything about this town or village which is probably nowadays a city quarter of Hanoi. It has probably a different name today. Can anybody help me? --DaQuirin (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps that name is a corruption of Thanh Hoa (it's always been Thanh Hoa). DHN (talk) 21:14, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your quick reaction. It seems to be a distorted name. But in the available sources it is stated that he was born in the outskirts of the city (né dans la banlieue de Hanoï). So "Thin-Hao" should nowadays be part of the city!? Thanh Hoa seems to be a bit too far off (or the French get it wrong, but the man is still alive and they should know...). Is there a place in the internet to find some historic map of Hanoi region from the French colonial period? --DaQuirin (talk) 01:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I asked over at vi.wikipedia and vi:User:Dung005 answered that it's probably Thịnh Hào village. Nowadays it's called ngõ Thịnh Hào in Hàng Bột Ward, Đống Đa District, Hanoi. DHN (talk) 01:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Great, you both found the solution! Thank you very much indeed. --DaQuirin (talk) 02:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnamese people in Taiwan

Hello everyone, I nominated Vietnamese people in Taiwan (include "en:" and other languages) as a candidate in Translation of the week. :) Bstlee (talk) 15:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need Vietnamese name

Need Vietnamese name for this type of drum. Badagnani (talk) 06:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Toy drum? DHN (talk) 06:56, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

It has a name in about 6 other Asian languages, so most likely also has one in Vietnamese. The term "toy drum" could refer to other varieties of small drum for children. Badagnani (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Diacritics needed

Diacritics needed in Vietnamese name of Tila Tequila. Badagnani (talk) 06:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Any name given will be pure speculation unless she states it herself; which is not very likely. DHN (talk) 06:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Some of us have better Vietnamese-language skills to search on Vietnamese-language websites then others of us. Badagnani (talk) 06:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

AFAIK she's never given any interview to any Vietnamese-language publication and Tila seems to be the name she's used since childhood. DHN (talk) 07:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

So where does the diacritic-less Vietnamese name come from? Badagnani (talk) 07:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Either she gave it in some interview, it's written in some legal document, or someone made it up (most likely). DHN (talk) 07:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
If you want speculation, here are some possible names, ranked by decreasing possibility: Nguyễn Thị Thiện Thanh, Thiên Thanh, Thiên Thành, Thiện Thành. DHN (talk) 07:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Better add a citeneeded tag, then. Badagnani (talk) 07:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Caucasians in Vietnam

Can someone help at the question just posted here? Badagnani (talk) 18:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this is going to be very difficult to answer. "Caucasian" defines a race rather than an ethnicity. Obviously there are people who have moved to Vietnam in recent years from Europe, North America and Australia and most of these could be called "Caucasian", though they might not want to be called that. Some are expats (intending to return to their original countries), others have sought naturalisation. I don't think the expats should be counted as among ethnic groups of Vietnam since they are not citizens. As for the naturalised people, I don't know if they identify as American-Vietnamese etc. or just as Vietnamese. And on top of all that, are any statistics collected? Itsmejudith (talk) 17:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
They'd most likely be considered "undistinguished ethnic groups," as the Undistinguished ethnic groups in China. They can be listed at List of ethnic groups in Vietnam#Ethnic groups not included in official list. Badagnani (talk) 17:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnam in the Dutch Empire

Hello everyone! There is a discussion at Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map, because user Red4tribe has made a map of the Dutch Empire (Image:Dutch Empire 4.png) that includes significative parts of Vietnam. Would you like to comment? Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New Map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dutch_Empire_new.PNG http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ square=tradingpost (Red4tribe (talk) 16:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

Still OR, POV and unsourced (yours is not not a credible source). Please discuss stuff at Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map. This was just a request for comment, not a discussion. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 16:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion proposal

See Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_April_27#Template:Chinese. Badagnani (talk) 14:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FACs

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] China and PRC articles request to be renamed

User:SmuckyTheCat is requesting that China be renamed, and replaced by the People's Republic of China article at "China". This will greatly affect articles that use the link to China to refer to Imperial China, as they will need to be fixed. 70.55.88.176 (talk) 08:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Satyr

Have you replaced User:SatyrTN's User:SatyrBot? We at WP:CHICAGO are looking for a replacement since he is no longer active. Please respond at my talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested

Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 14:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dee Luong. Badagnani (talk) 03:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requests for ratings

Is anyone looking at these? I ask as I just added two to the page and noticed that the previous two had been added months ago. IainP (talk) 08:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)