Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Archive 1

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Archive 1
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Contents

Oregon Highways wikiproject?

Anybody interested in a WikiProject on Oregon highways? Several possible suspects may receive similar questions on their homepages... --EngineerScotty 05:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I could help set one up... like I've done with a few... but I've only been to Oregon a few times. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 05:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to help, so far as we make sure to honor both the Route Numbers and Highway Numbers. Someone should work on explaining that for the uninitiated.TEG 03:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Now a benefit of setting up a WikiProject is to have a standardized structure. If you don't want other people changing your work and messing it all up then you can implement a WP to coordinate efforts. That way people can't just remove your {{routeboxint}} for no reason. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 22:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, the people at SFD will be ticked if we don't have a WP for the stub type. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:26, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I've been considering setting one up for Oklahoma for a few weeks but I'm not really sure if there's any interest in it either - no point in having a one-person WikiProject after all. I've written 20 articles and there's 3 that others have written, so it's about to get unmanageable for one person soon. (By the way, I figure there's 127 encyclopedic articles that could be written, meaning that only 18% of them are done.) Scott5114 22:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I've started a WikiProject for Oklahoma. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma State Highways. ...Scott5114 03:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

So should we start Oregon soon? Once we finish WP:NC/NH I'll have more time on my hands.... or if someone else wants to start it then they can.... and as a bonus then we can resurrect our deleted stub. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 05:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Kansas Turnpike

Kansas Turnpike is currently up for peer review. Scott5114 02:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

General Highways infobox

Does anyone have a general "Highway" infobox? The U.S. and Interstate ones are too specific — I need something that applies to (read: can be flexible with) routes with no shields, or 2+ shields, and yet contain enough relevant info about the specific expressway. This will be used on things like the Borman Expressway. Thanks! —Rob (talk) 17:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

{{Infobox road}} maybe? Scott5114 19:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
That works. It's in need of a few borders, but I've been having trouble with those when I tried editing it. Thanks! —Rob (talk) 14:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Moves

If noone objects, by Monday I will be moving all lists to the correct convention. For example, I will move "List of Alabama state highways" to "List of Alabama State Routes" (since they are, in fact Alabama State Routes). This will strengthen our case for fixing the highway capitalizations. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:08, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Object strongly, obviously. Take it to RFM, or leave it alone. Alai 21:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
    • For what reasons? And why take it to RFM? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:34, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
      • For what reasons? Is that a serious question? Why RFM: from Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page: "Take some time to make sure there is no objection to your moving." From WP:RM "In other situations a move may be controversial and will require discussion to reach a consensus." Moves are generally supposed to make articles names conform with the naming conventions, not to make ones that currently do depart from it. Alai 23:22, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
        • What specifically is the problem with capitals? Highway systems are proper nouns. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 23:30, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
    • And actually, I didn't realize that someone already moved the Alabama example. Half of the lists are at the capitalized versions. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:35, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I object to moving state highways in New Jersey, as I believe in that case "state highways in New Jersey" is a correct way of saying it. On the other hand, "New Jersey State Route" is a neologistic phrase; officially the routes are "State Highway Route X" and are state highways, roads maintained by the state. In other states, like Massachusetts, list of numbered routes in Massachusetts is really the only correct formulation, as the routes are state-numbered, but not necessarily state-maintained. In general, I object to using the neologism "state type X" at all. Disambiguation is done with parentheses after, not by putting the state before. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 00:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Related to this is we have a number of pages for "New York State Highway N" where N is the number, and each belongs in the category "New York state highways". So far so good. Now why do we have a page called "List of State Routes in New York"? Currently it includes Interstates and U.S. Routes but I don't usually refer to them as "State Routes" or "State Highways", so maybe it should be renamed? If it should NOT include Interstates, etc., shouldn't it be "List of New York state highways" to agree with the category name? I am just looking at NY in this case so if there is a standard already decided, is NY set up this way to comply with the standard? If so why is this the standard? --Censorwolf 20:26, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying that the use of "New York State Highway" at all is incorrect. It should be Route 9A (New York), and the list would probably fit best at List of state-numbered routes in New York (maybe capitalizing Routes), especially because New York is a state that assigns state numbers to local roads. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 01:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways/U.S. state highway naming conventions#Capitalization, where we're having this same discussion. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 07:00, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

OK I've read the discussions which mainly seem to be circular around both naming and capitalization. Personally I think the capitalization is a trivial issue, and would prefer to use English grammer rules for nouns as I stated at there. The naming standards are a bit less trivial, and I will go with whatever the concensus is. I'd rather work on getting the content standardized and completed rather than focus lots of effort on what the names are. --Censorwolf 15:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I would not move pages such as "State Highways in New Jersey". What I'm trying to fix is "List of Alaska state highways." --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

On further consideration, the more I look into this, the more of a mess it appears to be. If you look at the filled out table under Wikipedia:WikiProject_Highways/U.S._state_highway_naming_conventions, we actually have 10 different "conventions" for lists (capitalization be damned!), several of which (eg: NY) don't agree with the current article naming "convention". Can't we settle on one way to name these articles and lists for roads in the U.S.? At least each state should agree with itself at the minimum. I undersand that each state DOT (or similar dept) may have its own way of naming roads but we don't even appear to be following that for each state. --Censorwolf 20:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Precise distances

I've been working on getting distances to two decimal places for US 30. I'm going to set up Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Lengths for discussion. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 01:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

On that note, Illinois has Interstate (but sadly, nothing else) distances to two decimal places here. It's a PDF. Probably from the same source. —Rob (talk) 04:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project

Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm obviously biased, as I wrote these articles, but I'd recommend Interstate 73 and Interstate 99. West Side Highway is an adaptation of a paper I wrote for college. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 08:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe some of the highway lists like List of California State Routes, List of Interstate Highways, and List of U.S. Routes, as well as Interstate 80, Interstate 90, and Interstate 95. Some of the other Interstate articles may be good as well. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I will add them here later today. Gflores Talk 20:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that most of the primary Interstate articles have potential to be published, except for a few. However, there could be some improvements made. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm working with Gflores, and I'm wanting to list the appropriate articles for WP1.0, but before I do I have a few things to ask about:
  1. US Roads are rather like the chemical elements or countries in Europe IMHO - you either take the whole list or just a select handful. Do you think the entire set of Interstates and the entire set of US Routes would be accurate enough to be used? I've looked at some of the articles, and even some of the primary Interstates are tagged as stubs, but that doesn't matter so much if the articles are factually correct.
  2. On the box of US Routes and the box of US Interstates some numbers are in pink and some are in white. What does that mean?
  3. Where you do have cleanup tags, for example U.S. Route 41, is this typically because of factual errors, or merely style issues?
Thanks for your time, Walkerma 05:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  1. I believe that the articles are pretty much accurate, and are tagged as stubs because they are not complete. I believe that all the primary (2 digit) Interstates are ready to go, as well as most of the 3 digit Interstates. The U.S. Routes are a little more debatable, but the primary (whatever is listed on {{U.S. Routes}}) ones probably are.
  2. The ones in pink are the major highways (the longest, and typically the ones that cross the country). This is determined by number. Although I-45 does not cross the country, it is defined as major by the AASHTO since it ends in 5. (US Routes use a different set of rules which I can;t think of now.)
  3. The cleanup tags are mostly style, because the article does not conform to WP:IH or WP:USH.
  4. Do you plan to include state highways? A few states like WP:CASH, and a few others might be somewhat complete.
--Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:05, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Major U.S. routes end in 0 or 1. ...Scott5114 22:14, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Naming conventions

I've started Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Numbered highways. I'm not sure about the exact process, so if it needs to be submitted anywhere, someone should do so. But we should probably come to some rough consensus first that this is what we want. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 20:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Portal

I have just created Portal:U.S. Roads. The intent of this is to serve as a portal to interstate, US, and state highways. If you have any comments, please post them here. I had considered including "streets" here as well, does anyone have a comment on it? Any comments are welcome.

If you wish to post request for selected article, selected picture, or "Did you know?", please post it at the talk page there, other comments, at least until this is fully up and running, please post here. Right now I'm concerned with it's appearance, etc. Much of what I used for the selected article, picture, and "Did you know" I kind of pulled out of a hat. US 66 seemed to be a good article to kick off with and the picture of I-80 looked good, so I used them. I would like to leave this through February and March, then begin changing them every month. "Did you know" I will change "as needed" (for now). I would like to get a small group to help determine these, if possible. Preferably, the selected article should have a photo selection and should be based on the article itself over any particular route. You can also leave comments at my talk page.

I will post a notice of the new Portal on the different WikiProject highway pages and will direct comments to this page since it is the partent project.Rt66lt 03:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks great! I've made a few minor changes. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Is there any way to do away with the Portal:U.S. Roads/ prefacing the headings? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:38, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, thanks, it looks better. Thanks for putting up the portal links, I was having some trouble with them for some reason.Rt66lt 04:10, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I spoke to soon. It replace all of them with "US Roads" instead of "Selected article", "selected picture", etc. I'll keep working on it.Rt66lt 04:23, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Now it's fixed! I went to another portal and looked at their template. Rt66lt 04:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Very good idea. --Censorwolf 04:12, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to leave the last, unnamed box for a short while in case anybody decides something else to use. There were some I deleted ("Biography", "Quotes") that didn't seem to apply. If no one suggest anything else to add, I 'll remove the leftover one later.Rt66lt 04:30, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Improvement focus of the week? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 05:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm still curious about including streets. Although they aren't part of the WikiProject, they still are roads. I think they should be included in the portal. I was going to put the portal template on the main articles (interstates, US highways, and the list of state highways -- but not the individual roads, that would be a monstrous job!). I started to put it on the interstate page, but in the preview it seemed to mess the article up.

I think we should go ahead and put a new selected article, photo, etc. up at the beginning of March. I think the portal looks fine, unless someone has suggestions. I would like to keep a balance between the different kind of roads presented (like right now, a US route is the selected article, the image is an interstate). Any ideas?Rt66lt 01:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the template has the correct closing tags. Maybe have Interstate/ US Highway stuff but then have maybe a few things regarding state highways...? I'd say that streets can be mentioned, but should not dominate the portal. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:51, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I added links to recommend for selected articles and pictures, "Did you know", and news and a link for archives. These are all red links right now. I'll try and work on it more tomorrow. I've also put a portal link on all the state/territorial highway lists, US Highway system (and list), bannered highways (and list), interstates, and Missouri Supplemental Routes. As for streets, I was thinking something occasional.Rt66lt 04:47, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Should there be a box for the talk page of the selected article stating that the article was selected (like the featured articles)? Portal:London does this. I was thinking just the article and image, not the DYK or news.Rt66lt 19:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Sure, sounds good. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I put up a suggestion for selected article and picture in their suggestion pages. US 1 for the article and I-15 near Pimm, Nevada. I realize that a US route and an interstate were in the same positions to start, but these looked good.Rt66lt 02:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Minnesota State Highways wikiproject

  • I am ready to work on this whenever the OK is given. Station Attendant 03:44, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Typically there should be two people for each WP (WikiProject) ... but you can just start it and wait... I can help with setting things up but I've never been to MN. But WP:USRD had no members for months and now it has some. And another benefit of a WP is that you have some defense against people randomly changing your edits and making them inconsistent for no good reason. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
      • That sounds good. I might know about enough Minnesota highway stuff for two people.Station Attendant 13:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

To add to the above, did you want me to start it and if so, how would I do that? Station Attendant 22:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Just create a page named Wikipedia:WikiProject Minnesota State Highways with the text {{subst:WikiProject}}. Save, and then re-edit it to replace the boilerplate text....Scott5114 01:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Should I wait for a consensus? Station Attendant 03:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

You can but you really don't have to. I can help once things at California State Highway 17 settle down. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 05:29, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, I will start it. Station Attendant 22:32, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sign images

I've noticed that some of the sign images are not loading, so far they've all been interstates. If you click on it, it takes you to the image page, but they're blank, too. Is this me, or has anyone else noticed it (Interstate 95 is one of these)?Rt66lt 03:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Same here, but on U.S. Routes too. Probably a server issue with the SVG parser/render or something....Scott5114 01:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Ask in [1]. I've already done so several times with no real response. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 12:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I am going to begin creating Minnesota State Highway shields and want to know what format would be the best to create them in, SVG or PNG? --Station Attendant 17:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
SVG works a lot better for things like sign images that can be expressed in vector form. See Talk:Blaise ketone synthesis for some of the reasons why SVG works well. ...Scott5114 19:06, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Template:Routebox_legend

I noticed that all the state route boxes that use junction legends all use the same colors. That's great. But the route boxes all have the legend imbedded. See Template_talk:Routeboxny for my analysis. I may have missed a state or two, but I was using this project's "Similar Projects" list for reference.

I created a new {{Template:Routebox_legend}} which is the common colors, including the county name header which only NY and TX used. Refer to {{Template:Routeboxny}} to see how I referenced it.

I won't change other state route boxes, leaving that to the project editors of each state.

--Censorwolf 15:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Please keep this sort of detailed information out of infoboxes. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 18:54, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps a valid opinion, but since most of the roadboxes have this info, the horse is already out the barn, n'est pas? --Censorwolf 19:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
The horse will die sooner or later. Better to stay off it. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 19:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
The horse aint dying. It's just got one or two ticks... an easy fix. No need to undo months of hard work.Gateman1997 20:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Totally false. An infobox is meant for several lines of basic information - that is why it gets the upper right position. Details should be in the article body. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 20:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Roads have alot of "basic" information. Everything in the current boxes is both basic to CA highways and similar highways and relevant.Gateman1997 21:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Pure verbal manipulation. The box is too big. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 21:41, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Not from my POV.Gateman1997 02:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The box is fine as it is. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Project templates

  • Are these project templates (ex:Template:Minnesota State Highway WikiProject) for use on the talk page of the article or the actual article page? Station Attendant 02:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Talk. Sorry but I can;t assist until things at CA settle down. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Pennsylvania State Highways Wikiproject

How about making a Pennsylvania State Highways Wikiproject? Pennsylvania has many roadways, including possibly the most famous: the Pennsylvania Turnpike. I'm all up for starting it. --myselfalso 17:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure. I'll help when I get the chance. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 00:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Med Cabal

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-03-12 U.S. Roads. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Decommissioned routes

There has been some discussion at Talk:Iowa State Highways about making articles for decommissioned routes. I just thought that I would ask for some opinions on this. --Station Attendant 23:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I think there should be. There's a long list of Missouri ones at List of Missouri highways.Rt66lt 03:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

New category

I created a new category: "State highways shorter than one mile". If you know of any, please add. It currently has four articles in it. Please, not spurs, loops, county roads, etc.Rt66lt 03:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Oklahoma has an orphaned lettered spur at around half a mile - Oklahoma State Highway 40A. Would that fit in the category? ...Scott5114 06:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Probably shouldn't. This was designed for "regular highways", not spurs, etc.Rt66lt 21:25, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I understand now. It's split off from OK 40? If it is, I would go ahead and include it.Rt66lt 21:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Texas highways?

Is there anyone else interesting in the big job of working on Texas state highways and Farm-to-Market and Ranch-to-Market Roads? I wouldn't mind firing up a Wikiproject page to coordinate the work, etc..and perhaps one or two others might start with the roads in their own County for starters. DavidBavousett 04:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I could help set it up (but I've never been to Texas). Also I think we have a contributor Bellhalla who is working on TX roads too. You can always start it and wait until people come too. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Rschen7754. Being quite new around here, I'd appreciate your looking over my shoulder. I'll Be bold and build the basic Wikiproject page later this weekend. I'll also try to get hold of Bellhalla and coordinate. That user has put together a really nice Route Box for Texas highways. I hope that it doesn't end up in a routebox war like some others have! If Bellhalla and I agree on something, and no one else is playing, does that constitute consensus? I'm enjoying looking at the work everyone has done so far, and am excited about adding to it! --DavidBavousett 22:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Doubt that a war would start. CA is the oldest state highway WikiProject, and it takes a while before major debates build like that. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 22:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Route 66

U.S. Route 66 has been listed as a good article.Rt66lt 21:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)