Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains/Archive: 2008, 2

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Question about Line guide in Noarlunga Centre railway line, Adelaide

Could you please tell me what the word leer means in the above Line guide? Is it a proper part of the Line guide or is it Vandalism? Kathleen.wright5 24:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see that. In Spanish, "leer" translates as "to read", so I wonder if the problem would be related to language settings somewhere... Slambo (Speak) 10:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm not seeing anything wrong. Has it been fixed? TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 13:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
It is most definitely still affected. I've also noticed the same problem with the line guide for Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway. FYI, I am running an old Windows 2000 system; Firefox shows the word "leer" for every blank space in the line guide (ie every white square where there is no track or other feature), and Internet Explorer initially showed what appears to be the little red cross you get when an image can't be found, although the image eventually loaded. The line guide was, as far as I know, created by a German editor (hence the BHF symbol, bahnhof) and I believe "leer" is German for "empty". I'd be checking if someone's been making alterations to the template of late.
Zzrbiker (talk) 13:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Haven't seen this myself. In the original German implementation of the routemaps, empty sections were required to be filled with "leer" (for 'empty'). I think the map creation tool does this also. Most manually-created maps would not include it. Maybe the underlying templates rely on an underlying template that has been tweaked (possibly in Germany?).
Suggest you ask at Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template. EdJogg (talk) 14:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm still not seeing it. The German translation seems more likely than the Spanish translation and the possibility of someone working on the icon images seems plausible. Do you still see it if you purge the cache (i.e. visit [1])? If you click on where it says leer, does it take you to an image page? Slambo (Speak) 14:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it takes me to Image:BSicon leer.svg, but there is no image. The above article has been fixed but its still on some of the articles in Category:Railway lines in South Australia that use the Line Guide Template. Kathleen.wright5 15:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
The point is that it's supposed to be a blank icon. Presumably the early versions of the template required it for spacing purposes. I didn't realise that it's presence would create a clickable link (although it's pretty obvious when you think about it!) But it certainly isn't a requirement. The vast majority of these routemaps do not use them.
Since they should be unnecessary, perhaps this has potential for an AWB run to remove them? (Thinly-veiled request for someone else to do the work!) A text search of 'leer railway' brings up 56 pages, although not all will need attention. I'll raise the point on the routemap template talk page, since they are the people to deal with the matter.
EdJogg (talk) 19:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
'leer' icon is technically required for the correct positioning of other icons, especially in multi-column guides. There is no difference for using 'leer' parameter or an empty parameter, as all empty parameters are automatically interpreted as 'leer' and BSicon leer.svg is being called. And so removing 'leer' would not be important.
That's me who changed tooltips to show icon names when I made overlapping icons allowed, but I guess that's better than showing icon file names as in earlier implementation. It is possible to disable the tooltips of 'leer' icons, but I don't really know how to disable the link to Image:BSicon .svg. – PeterCX&Talk 03:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Just to notify that now 'leer' is interpreted as empty, which is the reverse of the previous scheme, as anyway Image:BSicon leer.svg is redirected to Image:BSicon .svg. Also, tooltips for empty or leer icons are disabled now. – PeterCX&Talk 04:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Very close inspection of the template code shows that 'leer' is the default element, used where no other icon is specified, and hence the routemaps can simply leave unused fields blank. Hence I now agree and accept that there is no need to remove 'leer' from the routemaps.
The bigger question is whether there is a need for tooltips at all. If they could be adjusted to show the name of the feature ('junction', 'major station', 'river bridge', etc), rather than the codename of the icon, that would be a great improvement (although it could pose language issues). Alternatively, disabling direct access to the template icon files would be even better (ie icons would not be clickable links, and the tooltip issue would not apply.
EdJogg (talk) 12:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
But using name of the feature in tooltips either requires a database template (causing high server burden) or manually inputted in diagrams (causing inconsistency). And also tooltips can help editors realise the icon codes, especially when the codes are not really obvious as in composite icons.
And also icon hyperlinks can be disabled by imagemap, but using hundreds of imagemaps in one page also causes server burden. I am not sure if there are simplier ways in doing it. – PeterCX&Talk 13:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I tried to remove all Image:BSicon .svg and empty those cells. That is, no icon would be loaded in those cells, and so no problem of hyperlinks and tooltips. Some further notes can be found at WT:RDT. – PeterCX&Talk 16:15, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Reverted... I cannot solve the display problem for collapsible tables... Can some experts solve that? – PeterCX&Talk 17:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:Rail Banner

I was just wondering if our project should have its own banner. See WT:Rail#Banner. Simply south (talk) 19:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)