Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2007 Archive Jan

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New tool concept

Hi yall. I'm working on writing a new spam-fighting tool. I'm trying to learn Python to build it too. The basic concept is fairly simple, but I think it would help investigations.

If the program works as intended then it should be able to find the first version of the page to contain a particular spam-link, helping to tack down who actually added it. It should make searching pages with thousands of edits alot quicker.

It occurs to me that this might be helpful with tracking down certain types of subtle vandalism and copyvio.

Ok, here is my current working...err.. process list.

User input variables
  1. “Article”
  2. “Test string”
  3. “Diff limit”
Diff list function A.
  1. Get diff data from query.php
  2. Convert diff data into useable list/array
Diff list function B. (primary)
  1. Copy array from “stable array” to “working array”
  2. Count amount of diffs in “working array”
  3. find “middle” diff (Rounded(total*0.5))
  4. retrieve article text
  5. test text for “test string”
  6. If test sting is present in article, remove last half of “working array,” if not, remove first half.
  7. Test if 1 diff is left, if so End function, return oldid.
  8. Return to 2.
Diff-list function B. (alternate)
  1. Copy array from “stable array” to “working array”
  2. Count amount of diffs in “working array”
  3. find “1/5th” diff (Rounded(total*0.2))
  4. retrieve article text
  5. test text for “test string”
  6. If test sting is present in article, remove last half of “working array,” if not, remove first half.
  7. Test if 25 or less diffs are left, if so send last diffs to Diff-list function B (primary).
  8. Return to 2.
Results.
  1. oldid/link
  2. User/link
  3. edit summary
  4. date

Any sugustions or other comments? ---J.S (T/C) 17:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I cannot read the Python. Watch out for catching the wrong person: e.g. someone who reverts a whole page vandal deletion with the spam link in.

--BozMo talk 19:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thats a good point. When the link is inserted/removed a bunch of times it will be more difficult to track down the very first time it was added. The alternative check -should- be more likely to catch the first edit the link was added... but to be 100% accurate would end up having the program check every single version of the page. That might be viable if it can be narrowed down I guess.---J.S (T/C) 20:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Or do a manual check on what the suspect edit was. I think maybe we need to bother the tech people to do something better with the links searching rather than build our own tools though. You'd be pulling a lot of data down when the analysis could work on the database? --BozMo talk 20:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
How about looking for the link from the article's first edit? Actually, it might be nice to have the option to choose either direction. While I'm throwing out suggestions for someone else's project, a start date parameter and a number of hits parameter (keep looking for the URL until you find it x times) would be nice. ScottW 20:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The mediawiki people have been very resistant about implimenting any technical solution to any problem that could be handled by a bot.
It is posible to do a 1by1 search of every edit from the very first edit, and sometimes that might be viable... but if the article has 12000 edits, then it might take hours.
This tool might not be helpfull in all situations... like if the link was added/removed a bunch of times in the past. But if it was added 2 months ago and noone caught it untill now it should be able to narrow it down to the exact edit.
The "alternate" method should have a much better shot at finding it the very first time the link was added... since it's checking at the 20% mark each time and not the 50% mark.
Anouther alternitive is to check every N edits (5, 10 or 20... whatever) and alert the user to the first time it finds the link. But your sacrafising effeciancy for acuracy... ---J.S (T/C) 21:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Method testing

Doing some simple spread sheeting I'm able to determine how many checks (checking an old version of the page) a particular method might take. I'm going to assume the page has had 12000 edits... (Yeah, I know, that might be the extreme, but it's useful for a though-experiment).

  • Method 1: Check every edit starting with earliest
  • Results: Would take anywhere between 1 to 11999 checks to find the edit. Some trial and error and pre-checking could signifigantly lower this to perhaps 1000 checks?
  • Method 2: Check every N edits.
  • Results: If N = 25 then a max of 480 checks would be needed with additional manual checking to narrow it down. Higher values of N make for more manual checking, but less automatic checking.
  • Method 3: Check the 20% marks.
  • Explanation - Check the 20% edit, (edit num2400). If the link was added before, then you just eliminated 80% of the possibilities... if it was added after, you eliminated 20%.
  • Results - Worse case scenario, find it in 43 checks. Best case you find it in 7. 20-30 is most likely.
  • Drawbacks - Might zero-in on a re-addition or a vandalism-revert.
  • Method 4:
  • Results - Would take reliably 15 or so checks each time.
  • Drawbacks - Even more likely to find a false positive...

That's my basic analysis. Each method has it's pros/cons. If the link was added once and never removed, or removed very recently (sneaky spam) then method 4 would find it the quickest and their would be no chance of error. I think that's the major scenario we deal with when a detailed investigation is called for, right? If the link was added/removed a few times but with long intervals between then method 3 would be more likely to find the very first time it was inserted, but still might hit on the wrong one. The "check every edit" or the "check every Nth edit" are the most reliable, but both can take hours to process. ---J.S (T/C) 21:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe you should use use the toolserver (m:toolserver) so you can run SQL queries directly, instead of using the query interface which is necessarily a lot slower and which loads down the public servers. See also the RFE that I mentioned above if you haven't [bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8315]. I'll read your post more carefully later, I'm in the middle of other stuff right now. 67.117.130.181 22:17, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware the toolserver isn't replicating the database... The word is it might be fixed soon, but thats what people have been saying for nearly 6 months. ---J.S (T/C) 22:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I didn't know about the non-replication. For the query interface method, I'd start with a simple binary search, using manual inspection to tell spam insertion from vandal reversion. I've thought of another approach but it has some evil aspects so I'll consider whether to describe it here. 67.117.130.181 23:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Basicly, this would be for when the user knows what the link is beforhand. Ie, (s)he saw the spam in the EL list and wondered who did the dirty deed. As for reconiseing spam as it's entered... we got shadowbot and IRC for that I guess. ---J.S (T/C) 23:17, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I understand that. I wonder whether shadowbot could be extended to log the first occurrence of every new link it sees, including those not on its blacklist. Then someone trying to find the source of some spam could check the shadowbot log to find the first insertion. I would have thought this could more naturally be recorded in the wiki server (same place that maintains the extlink table right now) but the developers answered describing some problems with that approach, that I didn't fully understand. 67.117.130.181 23:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
If you can assume that the link was added once and never removed then a binary search algorithm suffices, with log2N comparisons (i.e. at most 14 comparisons for 12000 edits).
—Red Thrush 23:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Thats what I was thinking.... but life is often more complex then that, so I wanted some alternitive methods. ---J.S (T/C) 23:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Then the only guaranteed way to find the author who added the link is to analyze every revision. Any other heuristic could fail in one or another scenario. The most sensible one would likely be when the link is added and removed in edit wars and eventually somebody forgets to remove it (even the method of checking every N revisions would have a high probability of missing the right revision).
Implementing a mechanism in wikipedia to track down who added every link for the first time would put a big load on the servers. Perhaps a more economic approach would be to add the new links to a per user page whenever she adds them to an article. Or make the entire history of an article available as a single download (to scan the revisions locally). But that depends on the internal implementation of wikipedia to store revisions. The ideal situation would be to have the history already compressed in a single blob record.
—Red Thrush 11:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I think there is a way to download the entire history of a article localy... (howelse do the mirrors do it?)
I don't nessessarly think 100% acuracy is nessassary... the binary search might be "good enough." Maybe I can add some user modifiable restrictions in the program? Ie, "only check revisisons made befor date X"? Hmmm that would actualy be quite usefull. ---J.S (T/C) 17:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Clueless but well-intentioned spammer needs correction & maybe site added to blacklist

69.22.217.141 (talk · contribs) has been adding links to this (http://mymom.pledgepage.org) solicitation site requesting money for his mom's surgery. Anchoress 03:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

A different kind of spam blacklist

I was wondering about the possiblility of using DNSBLs as a preventative measure against crap like this (those spamtraps are currently empty) and other general linkspamming. There are a number of ways we might be able to do this - the questions are which blacklists and what to block (e.g. at least 25% of the change is adding external link(s))? MER-C 04:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I like your User:MER-C/Spam subpage. --A. B. (talk) 08:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Forgive my ignorance but what are we doing at the moment if not this? Do we only have a content blacklist not an IP blacklist? Neither is terribly effective mind you, but better than nothing --BozMo talk 07:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Our current spam blacklist is based on domain names. This is rather ineffectual, since spammers/phishers hop domains very quickly. MER-C 08:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I just spent hours cross-checking some of our worst spammers against these lists using [www.completewhois.com/ Completewhois]. The ones that matched a blacklist, I then listed at WikiProject Open Proxy. I got some very polite feedback[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AA._B.&diff=95886327&oldid=95519103] that seemed to indicate that this was not seen as very helpful. So I'm not sure what to do. --A. B. (talk) 08:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Get a friendly admin to block them. I know of some admins who permablock spambots on sight. MER-C 08:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Is it me, or is it weird that just "some" admins do that? Isn't there any consensus on how to treat spambots? --Jdevalk 19:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
If you see a spambot, send me a note on my talk with some diffs and I'll block'em. ---J.S (T/C) 19:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Links to PtS Content Network sites

An established Wikipedia editor has not only been adding good content, but also links to a series of web sites owned by PtS plc. See ChrisNickson (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log); his talk page lists the 10+ sites linked to so far, plus another 70 PtS is developing. An anonymous IP, 82.19.71.53 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) has also added links.

There is one well-established online publication, GlobalVillageIdiot, in PtS' listings, and it was the only one I noticed that might meet WP:EL. Wikipedia has 12 links to that music review site; all were added by other editors with good reputations on Wikipedia. Most of these editors had extensive editing histories (1000s of edits). I left these links alone.

All the other links are cleaned up. --A. B. (talk) 07:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Recently tagged articles for cleanup

I was following up on several spammers' spam trails and noticed these as needing more cleanup; I didn't have any time left:

Many other articles on individual phones are spammy too. Also, I kept seeing the same domain names over and over again.

Not as bad:

Partially cleaned up already?

--A. B. (talk) 07:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Vinni-Puh's linkspam via narod.ru -- surfaced again

This is a pretty sneaky linkspam campain, and Vinni-Puh seems a pretty patient user - when a lot of folks begin watching, he stops for quite a while. However, he then returns and expands his linkspamming, and does it across multiple languages of WP as well. Please see [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Vinni-Puh&oldid=96102740 this snapshot of his talkpage] (he keeps blanking anti-spam warnings) and specifically [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Vandalism_in_progress/Archives/2006/01&diff=34468789%20the%20old%20VIP%20entry the WP:ANI entry archived] from over a year ago. --BACbKA 14:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

There are about 1200 narod.ru links. A spot check of several revealed nothing useful. They are either Russian/Cyrillic or third party pages with real content borrowed from or linked to primary sites. Someone should go through all of these and clean them out. Most will have to be judged on a case-by-case basis. Vinni-Puh (talk · contribs) has not been all that prolific since a huge spam spree a year ago (December and January) and it shouldn't take much time for someone to evaluate a year's worth of edits. If narod.ru turns out to be completely useless, it should be blacklisted. JonHarder talk 03:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
To make this easier work through, these are the top 20 subdomains within narod.ru. They range from 87 links from articles for the first entry, down to 4 links for the last. If you work through one of these items, cross it off the list. JonHarder talk 23:18, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
*.pagetour.narod.ru (This site is an nformation donator to Wikipedia, owned by user Dmitriy A. Pitirimov It is in English with many relevant information about Uzbekistan Dmitriy A. Pitirimov 10:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC))
Dmitriy, I note that you now have [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.pagetour.narod.ru 111 links], up from 87 at the time narod.ru was blacklisted. Also, from looking at the current version of a sample article, [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gur-e_Amir&oldid=99722849 Gur-e Amir], I see you have 10 links back to your commercial travel web site, pagetour.narod.ru., many of them as inline links that say "[pagetour.narod.ru/samarkand/Gur-Emir/Gur-Emir_1.htm (see picture)]". The preferred way to do this is to upload the picture then add the image to the article. In the interim, those inline links are probably subject to removal in accordance with out External Links Guideline and our Manual of Style.--A. B. (talk) 14:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
*.urrib2000.narod.ru
www.coinsv.narod.ru
www.lasius.narod.ru
drokov.narod.ru
archeologia.narod.ru
tramnn.narod.ru
marshals.narod.ru
buzyall.narod.ru
holiker.narod.ru
*.russia-today.narod.ru
nesusvet.narod.ru
chernobrov.narod.ru
tewton.narod.ru (images in linked pages are somewhat helpful, and English language cites are provided -- Satori Son 14:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC))
mondvor.narod.ru
btvt.narod.ru
www.parus87.narod.ru}} (This site is donator of one page and is placed as a source on it. It is in English with relevant information Dmitriy A. Pitirimov 10:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC))
www.heraldicum.narod.ru
www.belawards.narod.ru
www.a-mx.narod.ru
I recommend not searching the above links further -- see comments below. I think we should stick to just the subdomains we know were spammed (listed below).--A. B. (talk) 09:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Vinni-Puh has also spammed other Wikipedias; here's info on the versions of the Amin Maalouf article on other Wikipedias. I am in the process of going over his contributions and accounts on these other Wikipedias and I will post that soon:

  • Arabic: أمين معلوف [ar.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=أمين_معلوف&action=history history]
  • Bulgarian: Амин Маалуф [bg.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Амин_Маалуф&action=history history]
  • Catalan: Amin Maalouf [ca.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Czech Amin Maalouf [cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • German: Amin Maalouf [de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Greek: Αμίν Μααλούφ [el.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Αμίν_Μααλούφ&action=history history]
  • Spanish: Amin Maalouf [es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Farsi امین معلوف [fa.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=امین_معلوف&action=history history]
  • French Amin Maalouf [fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Galician: Amin Maalouf [gl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Indonesian Amin Maalouf [id.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Italian Amin Maalouf [it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Kurdish: Amin Maalouf [ku.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Hungarian Amin Maalouf [hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Dutch: Amin Maalouf [nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Norwegian: Amin Maalouf [no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Polish: Amin Maalouf [pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Portuguese: Amin Maalouf [pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Romanian: Amin Maalouf [ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Russian: Маалуф, Амин [ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Маалуф%2C_Амин&action=history history]
  • Sicilian: Amin Maalouf [scn.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history] This version not spammed
  • Simple: Amin Maalouf [simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Slovenian: Amin Maalouf [sl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Finnish: Amin Maalouf [fi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Swedish: Amin Maalouf [sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Turkish: Amin Maalouf [tr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history history]
  • Chinese: 阿敏·馬盧夫 [zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=首页&action=history history]

The tip-off was that I saw him adding inter-wiki links to the versions of this article in some other languages and I wondered why a dedicated spammer would make that extra little effort to seemingly improve Wikipedia for its own sake, not his. Now I know.
--A. B. (talk) 18:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Vinni-Puh's edit histories on other Wikipedia versions

I'm out of time today. Here's what I was going to do for each language version:

  1. Leave a note at the "Embassy" for that language. (These are noticeboards where Wikipedians from other languages can leave messages such about cross-language issues as multi-Wikipedia vandals, spammers, etc.)
    1. Leave an html link back to this discussion (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#Vinni-Puh.27s_linkspam_via_narod.ru_--_surfaced_again)
    2. Copy the user/talk/contrib links from the [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam&action=edit&section=10 edit window for this page] then paste them into my message at the Embassy noticeboard.
  2. I was reluctant to clean-up Vinni-Puh's edits and links in that language unless I was fluent in the language. For all I know, Vinni-Puh may be adding some stuff elsewhere that folks appreciate. I figure the editors on those Wikipedia's can handle that stuff and probably don't want me cluelessly mucking around.
  3. Make a note somewhere of what .narod.ru domains he was spamming (and any other domains), then list it here. I thought once we had all the data, we could add it in one batch to the blacklist.

As I mentioned, I've run out of time. Figuring out how to write up this inter-wiki stuff took hours.

Finally, I am worried about blacklisting all of narod.ru unless we're sure it's all spam. My impression is that it may be a big hosting service like a geocities or a yahoo.

Thanks for any help you can render. --A. B. (talk) 20:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Arabic:

  • [ar.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=مستخدم:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/نقاش_المستخدم:Vinni-Puh talk] • [ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/خاص:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/ويكيبيديا:سفارة Arabic Embassy] I already left a note
      • [ar.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Bulgarian:

  • [bg.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Потребител:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Потребител_беседа:Vinni-Puh talk] • [bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Специални:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([ca.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usuari_Discussió:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Уикипедия:Посолство Bulgarian Embassy]
      • [bg.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Czech:

  • [cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedista:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedista_diskuse:Vinni-Puh talk] • [cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciální:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Note: blanked talk page -- see [cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedista_diskuse:Vinni-Puh&oldid=332301 earlier version]
    • Embassy: [cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedie:Velvyslanectví Czech Embassy]
      • [cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

German:

  • [de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Benutzer:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_Diskussion:Vinni-Puh talk] • [de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Beiträge/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Botschaft German Embassy]
      • [de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Greek:

  • [el.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Χρήστης:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([el.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Συζήτηση_χρήστη:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh talk] • [el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ειδικό:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Βικιπαίδεια:Πρεσβεία Greek Embassy]
      • [el.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Spanish:

  • [es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usuario:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usuario_Discusión:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh talk] • [es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Embajadas Spanish Embassy]
      • [es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Farsi (Persian):

  • [fa.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=کاربر:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/بحث_کاربر:Vinni-Puh talk] • [fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ویژه:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ویکی‌پدیا:سفارت‌خانه Farsi/Persian Embassy]
      • [fa.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

French:

  • [fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Vinni-Puh Vinni-Puh] ([fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Utilisateur:Vinni-Puh talk] • [fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Ambassade French Embassy]
      • [fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Galician:

  • [gl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([gl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh talk] • [gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Embaixada Galician Embassy]
      • [gl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Indonesian:

  • [id.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pengguna:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pembicaraan_Pengguna:Vinni-Puh talk] • [id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istimewa:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([id.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pengguna:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istimewa:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kedutaan Indonesian Embassy]
      • [id.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Italian:

  • [it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Utente:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussioni_utente:Vinni-Puh talk] • [it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciale:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ambasciata Italian Embassy]
      • [it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Kurdish:

  • [ku.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bikarhêner:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([ku.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bikarhêner_nîqaş:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh talk] • [ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taybet:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wîkîpediya:Sefaret Kurdish Embassy]
      • [ku.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Hungarian:

  • [hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_vita:Vinni-Puh talk] • [hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciális:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_vita:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciális:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Nagykövetség Hungarian Embassy]
      • [hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Dutch:

  • [nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gebruiker:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Vinni-Puh talk] • [nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciaal:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ambassade Dutch Embassy]
      • [nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Norwegian:

  • [no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bruker:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brukerdiskusjon:Vinni-Puh talk] • [no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spesial:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ambassaden Norwegian Embassy]
      • [no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Polish:

  • [pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedysta:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyskusja_Wikipedysty:Vinni-Puh talk] • [pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specjalna:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.225.8.83: ([pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dyskusja_Wikipedysty:82.225.8.83&action=edit talk] • [pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specjalna:Contributions/82.225.8.83 contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dyskusja_Wikipedysty:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specjalna:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ambasada_Polska Polish Embassy]
      • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Portuguese:

  • [pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usuário:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuário_Discussão:Vinni-Puh talk] • [pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.225.8.83: ([pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usuário_Discussão:82.225.8.83&action=edit talk] • [pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contributions/82.225.8.83 contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usuário_Discussão:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Embaixada_da_Wikipedia Portuguese Embassy]
      • [pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Romanian:

  • [ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Utilizator:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discuţie_Utilizator:Vinni-Puh talk] • [ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ambasadă Romanian Embassy]
      • [ro.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Russian:

  • [ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Участник:Vinni-Puh Vinni-Puh] ([ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Обсуждение_участника:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh talk] • [ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Служебная:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.225.8.83: ([ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Обсуждение_участника:82.225.8.83 talk] • [ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Служебная:Contributions/82.225.8.83 contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Обсуждение_участника:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Служебная:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Посольство Russian Embassy]
      • [ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Simple English:

  • [simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Vinni-Puh&action=edit talk] • [simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:82.235.56.142&action=edit talk] • [simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: ??
      • [simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Slovenian:

  • [sl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uporabnik:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uporabniški_pogovor:Vinni-Puh talk] • [sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posebno:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Veleposlaništvo Slovenian Embassy] I already left a note
      • [sl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Swedish:

  • [sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Användare:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Användardiskussion:Vinni-Puh talk] • [sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ambassaden Swedish Embassy] note left
      • [sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Turkish:

  • [tr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kullanıcı:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kullanıcı_mesaj:Vinni-Puh talk] • [tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Özel:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
    • Embassy: [tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedi:Büyükelçilik Turkish Embassy] note left
      • [tr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

Chinese:

  • [zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Vinni-Puh&action=edit Vinni-Puh] ([zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vinni-Puh talk] • [zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinni-Puh contribs])
  • Anonymous - 82.235.56.142: ([zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:82.235.56.142 talk] • [zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.235.56.142 contribs])
    • Embassy: [zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:互助客栈/其他 Chinese Embassy] not sure if this is the Chinese Embassy or not
      • [zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.narod.ru Linksearch] for *.narod.ru

--A. B. (talk) 19:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't his behaviour on 23 Dec at [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amin_Maalouf&action=history] a 3RR which gets an auto ban? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.152.166.153 (talk) 22:10, 27 December 2006 (UTC).
It looks like he only reverted twice. He has three edits, but the first was adding the spam, the next two were reverting it back in. Once more and he would have been in violation of 3RR. IrishGuy talk 22:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Vinnie-Puh's domains

Here's what I've seen so far on this and other Wikipedias:

  • www.aminmaalouf.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.aminmaalouf.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • aminmaalouf.ifrance.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.aminmaalouf.ifrance.com list] of articles with this link
  • dahmaneelharrachi.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.dahmaneelharrachi.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • gadelmaleh.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.gadelmaleh.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • guyalepage.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.guyalepage.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • www.in-gridsite.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.in-gridsite.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • in-gridsite.ifrance.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.in-gridsite.ifrance.com list] of articles with this link
  • jeandujardin.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.jeandujardin.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • josegarcia.narod.ru/
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.josegarcia.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • jonathanlittell.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.jonathanlittell.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • naguibmahfouz.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.naguibmahfouz.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • o-zone-website.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.o-zone-website.narod.ru list] of articles with this link
  • sachabaroncohen.narod.ru
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.sachabaroncohen.narod.ru list] of articles with this link

--A. B. (talk) 06:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Narod.ru is a big Russian hosting service similar to Yahoo. The entire domain was [meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spam_blacklist&curid=13107&diff=501199&oldid=501190 blacklisted] at our request earlier this week then soon [meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spam_blacklist&curid=13107&diff=501348&oldid=501199 unlisted] due to m:Talk:Spam blacklist#socarchive.narod.ru major complaints about collateral damage. I have requested that just the domains above be blacklisted. --A. B. (talk) 09:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

1911encyclopedia lovetoknow linkspam

We have more than 1000 links to 1911encyclopdia.org [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.1911encyclopedia.org&limit=500&offset=0] which is a scanned copy of the 1911 encyclopedia britannica for which that site claims copyright (probably invalidly but whatever). In cases where it's a real reference for an article we should use the {{1911}} template but a lot of those links are just spam, making this a bit hard to sort out even not counting the sheer scale. To really do it right we have to figure out whether each article actually contains EB text. 67.117.130.181 13:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

See more discussion [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles#1911encyclopedia.org_links here]. 67.117.130.181 23:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
As I see there is just a couple of these ext links now. Am I missing something or someone already did a cleanup? `'mikka 01:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I still see 100s. I spot-checked some edit histories -- perhaps 5 or 6. All the links had been added by high-volume, high-value editors, not link-spammers. I agree, however, that these links need to be replaced, especially given the fact that 1911encyclopedia.org made major errors in OCR converting their scans. These links are sending people to very unreliable pages. --A. B. (talk) 04:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
This 1911 thing is very sad. Given www.gutenberg.org seems to have the whole text up as a single document why doesn't someone publish it public domain as one page per article without adverts somewhere? I don't reckon that's more than a weeks work. --BozMo talk 15:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

drugs-about.com

As I work through the copyvio material added by In4pharm (talk · contribs), the editor appears to be spamming drugs-about.com. There aren't all that many links to that site, but I'm bogged down documenting the copyvio problems, so it would be helpful if someone could check who else is adding the links. JonHarder talk 02:30, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Person seems to be continuing to add articles and links. They are being more careful now, but purpose seems to be to promote drug companies and about-drugs.com. I left a note about conflict of interest editing (WP:COI). I think we're getting close to needing a block. 67.117.130.181 04:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Person is now responding to talk messages, see his/her talk page, and mine. It's hard to tell what's going on, and the person's English skills apparently all that great. I guess I'll suggest that s/he join WP:DRUGS. 67.117.130.181 23:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
drugs-about.com is registered in Russia; perhaps the user is a Russian speaker. That could explain why the new articles have been copy and paste creations or expansions. I have found the source of about half of them. It certainly looks like the edits are about promoting drugs-about.com. JonHarder talk 23:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Popsnail.com

Over the last week or so, several users (and a couple of IP addresses) have been persistently trying to link this site into mostly computer-related articles. Check out special:linksearch/popsnail.com for any new links. Is it time for the site to be added to the spam blacklist now? Users who have added links to the site include Jennyjennie09io (talk · contribs), Katherine9976hy (talk · contribs), Janet4363j (talk · contribs), Lucine098ui (talk · contribs), Joyce23424tg (talk · contribs), GREAT0897 (talk · contribs), Xmaswei (talk · contribs) and NerdDFGE (talk · contribs). IP addresses linking to the site (based in Asia) are 212.138.64.178 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log) and 222.231.50.97 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log). Graham87 07:25, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Blocked the accounts as spam campaign socks. Femto 12:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The user/s seem to make new accounts every few minutes; maybe the autoblocks might stop the spammer for a while though. Graham87 14:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, now that you mention it I didn't specifically enable the autoblock, I'm rather cautious with that option. If these guys are proxyhopping it wouldn't help anyway. What I did though is to confirm the two IPs as open proxies (*.178 is routing from *.148:80). Blocked with account creation enabled though, because I'm new to the whole proxy business and didn't dare blocking harder, if another admin wants to review, be my guest. Need to keep watching for new links in any case. Femto 16:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Prepare for more spam...

As Jimbo has just started promoted his "Wikiasari" project, outbound links from WikiPedia pages might be considered worth even more than before... I'd say: prepare for a bunch of spam the coming months... --Jdevalk 10:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

What's "Wikiasari"? --A. B. (talk) 16:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
[upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20061223-085944-3351r Wikipedia founder to launch search engine] --Hu12 16:37, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
And "they" say it will show results from Wikipedia and pages WP links to, thus increasing the need for people to have links from Wikipedia, and perhaps changing the linking rules for Wikipedia altogether... --Jdevalk 20:40, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh crimoney. What is Jimbo thinking? Now we are MORE attractive to linkspam. (sigh) ---J.S (T/C) 22:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, he isn't really helping... --Jdevalk 10:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Real estate bubble

This article can attract some spam but is generally well-watched. The "See Also" section links to articles for bubbles in different countries, some of which are poorly monitored and frequently spammed. --A. B. (talk) 16:31, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Need another user to tell this person to stop spamming

User:Lesb246 is spamming every Eastern Oregon-related and many unrelated pages with the link to the Eastern Oregon State University distance education program. Well-intentioned but annoying... Katr67 00:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

In need of an admin rollback, perhaps ban. As far as I can tell, he is Director of Student Relations and Marketing for the Division of Distance Education at Eastern Oregon University. And he wants everyone to come see the school's site. Groan. JoeSmack Talk 00:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
User [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ALesb246&diff=96639526&oldid=96637642 has been blocked] for link spamming (and I [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Les_Balsiger&diff=prev&oldid=96640650 have prodded] his self-submitted bio article prod tag was removed; sent to AfD). For later follow-up, here's the [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=www.eou.edu%2Fdde URL linksearch] to check for this again. -- Satori Son 00:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
(Les Balsiger speedied per A7 & overwhelming Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Les Balsiger.) Femto 13:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
What a foolish mistake. I've seen this multiple times now. Editor spams multiple articles with links and submits one or more vanity articles about self and some organization (or recently, even their boyfriend's horse). Other editors object citing guidelines, but the vanity editor persists, earning more warnings and engendering closer scrutiny by more editors. Then they make their really big mistake -- they remove the CSD or PROD tag, leading to an AfD. The AfD turns to an embarrassing discussion of the person's notability and usually reveals the submitting author's poor behavior. Within a week or two, the articles and links are all gone, but the AfD debate remains indefinitely. Because Google gives Wikipedia articles very high weight in calculating page rank, any search on the person's name turns up the embarrassing AfD discussion in the top two or three search results. --A. B. (talk) 03:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
For the record, such blatantly embarassing AfDs can be dealt with via {{Afd-privacy}} if you feel it would help. 68.39.174.238 02:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Just a heads up--there is an anon User:12.180.9.131 editing in a similar pattern to the blocked user. Katr67 16:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Also now using 71.111.124.72 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) as well. --A. B. (talk) 05:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone yet requested a checkuser for the two IP's? -- Satori Son 05:01, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Spam blacklist

Please write a separately visible section in Wikipedia:Spam that describes the wikimedia's spam blacklist (m:spam blacklist). Right now various bits and pieces are in several places: Wikipedia:External links, Wikipedia:Spam some useful can be found in m:talk:spam blacklist. `'mikka 01:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not someone who could write such things, but here's my moral support for this request. Certain aspects of meta: are rather obscure and need to be better documented. Femto 12:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

answers.google.com

[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.answers.google.com&limit=500&offset=0 answers.google.com] Quite a few of these, asside from the google article, these are inapropriate as EL's.. Agreed?--Hu12 17:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how ansers.google.com would be appropriate in almost any case. It's basically a question and some random person's reply. If the reply is relevant, we would be better off making sure the information is included in the article and citing reliable sources. ---J.S (T/C) 20:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Most of those aren't in article space and I'd rather stay out of editorial judgements about whether particular answers are encyclopedic. It's not as if google was trying to spam us. 67.117.130.181 08:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The article space links will surely need to be cleaned up. thanks for the replies. --Hu12 16:35, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Per JS, try to be a bit careful in doing the cleanup (i.e. merge encyclopedic content into the articles, don't go against editorial consensus for any particular article, drop a note on the article talk page in complex cases). 67.117.130.181 06:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I think most of google answers links actually provide valuable info. It's probably inappropriate for external links, but I'm fairly confident it's not spam in the traditional sense... so it's sorta outside of the scope of this project. ---J.S (T/C) 06:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
agreed, not in traditional sense..google doesn't need to spam--Hu12 07:27, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Change management

this article is attracting agents and representatives of change-management-toolbook.com and change-management.com, obvious Wikipedia:External_links#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest. hnauheimer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) who's user page states I am mainly interested in Change Management and run one of the most frequented webpages on the subject (The Change Management Toolbook change-management-toolbook.com). Proceded to go on a link removal fit (the old strawman, If i can't have a link no one can) after citing the policy. 67.161.154.237 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log) aka Prosci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) who stated on the talk page As the founder of the Change Management Learning Center is repedidly trying to insert his site change-management.com. I think a second or third voice on the matter may be needed. Also if others want to add this article to their watch list, as activity recently has increased.--Hu12 16:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I added some comments and deleted some links. More work is needed
Aside from spam, there's a section about quantum physics vs. Newtonian physics and how that relates to paradigm shifts, etc., etc. I noted that in fact quantum physics had little to do with change management in organizations since organizations are usually larger than atoms. I suggested that they really wanted to remove that before some real physicist such as saw it. --A. B. (talk) 05:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I've cleaned up all the links except for one to tutor2u.net (see below). --A. B. (talk) 09:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Anti-money laundering

Whoa, take a look at Anti-money laundering's EL section --Hu12 18:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Same with Money laundering --Hu12 18:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and cleared out Anti-money laundering's EL section. Seems other editors had noted this problem as well. Article was accumulating commercial sites, personal websites, those requiring registration, and EL section was 3 times bigger than article. Since removing all the links was a little aggressive, I'll let the dust settle there and take on Money laundering next because it contains most of the same sites. Calltech 10:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
We've definitely reached the Spam Event Horizon for these two. And while removing the entire EL section is drastic, I can't say I disagree in such an extreme case. -- Satori Son 06:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
So Microfinance would also be considered a Spam Event Horizon? --Hu12 08:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I did and took the appropriate (I hope) action. 68.39.174.238 03:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
saw that, looks good. had to do a spot cleanup on Climate change, probably need a second edit somewhere--Hu12 06:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
My head spun on this Lightweight Directory Access Protocol --Hu12 10:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Cleanup-spam update

After seeing the warning message on Anti-money_laundering above, I modified the Template:Cleanup-spam to conform more closely with WP:EL. Please review and see if it needs improvement. Warning should include both commercial and non-commercial sites. Calltech 19:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Startcom

Startcom (talk · contribs) has been making solid, good-faith contributions to Wikipedia since mid-November. However, I have concerns about a significant conflict of interest because the edits all revolve around StartCom and its products. This user has been up front about noting his affiliation on the Startcom user page, as recommended by the conflict of interest guideline and this is to be commended. The recommendation to avoid editing in related articles has not been followed. There are several different issues involved here, which I will try to delineate. These cover a diversity of topics that I have insufficient experience dealing with.

  • User:Startcom appears to be a role account because it states "current operator of this account ...". I believe role accounts are basically forbidden and blocked when found. The best solution here is to ask the user to remove that language with the undertsanding that other Startcom users will create their own accounts as needed.
  • StartCom, StartCom Linux, StartCom MultiMedia Edition, StartCom Certification Authority were all created by Startcom and Startcom is the only major contributor. None of these articles assert notability with respect to the WP:CORP or WP:SOFTWARE criteria; they do not cite significant independent sources. I have found that with this combination of factors, admins will almost always speedy delete an article if it is labeled with db-spam. In this case, is there a better way to deal with good articles (assuming they are notable) that were created with a significant conflict of interest?
  • Image:Startcom-logo.jpg contains a licensing statement that I believe is incompatible with the type of free license required by Wikipedia: "The StartCom Logo is provided by StartCom for the use in Wikipedia, but otherwise copyright is maintained by StartCom."
  • Various internal and external links were added to other articles. Some of this has already been cleaned up. The rest can wait pending the outcome of this discussion.

Since I am running into more of this type of editing, I would like some input and suggestions about how to deal with it. I have invited user Startcom to respond here also. JonHarder talk 21:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Last point first: yes, the image is inappropriately tagged and unless it's fixed it will get deleted soon. As for the COI... hmmm this is a tuff one. Jimbo has encouraged a very strict line on that kind of thing. I would encourage StartCom to find reliable secondary sources (per WP:RS and WP:V for each and every article. Otherwise these should be merged into a single StartCom article or deleted outright if a AFD debate sais so. Otherwise, if the articles are neutral (WP:NPOV) and arn't publishing original research (WP:NOR) then the articles should be ok. ---J.S (T/C) 21:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
First of all, somebody removed the page about StartCom Enterprise Linux and I want it back, so I don't know how. I invested quite some time and not going to write it again!
I wonder, about which product and services shall we talk at the StartCom pages? About flying to space? Or dishwashers? Of course it's about our products the very same most other Linux vendors, certification authorities etc are presented, including their shiny products!
Concerning the StartCom Logo. This is the same case as with Red Hat's! You can't use the logo and name for other usage except as outlined in "fair use".
Links: I added links of StartCom to pages which already had links about other similar products. Why should this be of concern? Because it's StartCom?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Startcom (talk • contribs) 20:45, 30 December 2006.
Addressing your comments from the top, first, StartCom Enterprise Linux, was removed as "G11/G12 copyvio/spam". If any of the existing articles you have worked on have any sentences copied word-for-word from another source, you need remove or reword those sentences immediately. See the official copyrights policy. That particular article was omitted from the list above; the help and suggestions you are receiving on those may be the only reason they have not yet been deleted.
Your sarcasm about dishwashers, etc. is noted and not particularly helpful. It may actually work against you and should be used cautiously in the future. I can't advise you on what to do with the image wording. I know that use of fair-use images are being minimized on Wikipedia, but image licensing is not an area with which I have much experience. Perhaps another editor can clarify.
The concern with the articles and links to them has to do with conflict of interest. If you have not done so, read the conflict of interest guideline carefully and also the two essays linked at the bottom. As suggested, right now it is important that you find reliable, secondary sources to establish notability of your company and products, working with the editors trying to help you. (Remember to sign your posts on talk pages with ~~~~.) ✤ JonHarder talk 00:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I was tipped about this discussion by JonHarder. I read the beginning some time ago, but did not pay attention to what was being said. About the image: It is not fair use. The correct tag for that image would be {{db-noncom}}, "used with permission for use on Wikipedia only", which puts the image into speedy deletion. Either claim full Fair use for the image through the {{logo}} template, or leave it for deletion. By claiming Fair use, we are already acknowledging the logo is copyrighted. -- ReyBrujo 00:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The editor of these articles has provided links to support notability. I continue to believe editing articles that one has a financial interest in is a very bad idea. ✤ JonHarder talk 22:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

→ See also: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/StartCom
→ See also: Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Startcom
Cross-wiki Spam
ja: StartCom Certification Authority and StartCom Linux
More info on cross-wiki spam is at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/StartCom#Startcom references in other Wikipedias —The preceding unsigned comment was added by A. B. (talk • contribs) 23:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC).
Related sites
Search startssl.com
*Search startcom.org
*Search mediahost.org
Crosswiki Spam sock accounts
ja: Kanon zuki
ja: Deep-silver —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hu12 (talk • contribs) 23:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

tutor2u.net -- appropriate or not?

Seen while cleaning up Change Management. There are over 20 of these links:

  • en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.tutor2u.net

Do those web pages meet WP:RS in terms of editorial supervision? It sort of looks like an online text book, but then again maybe it's just some sort of self-published junk.

I did not have time to see if they were campaign-spammed or just added one at a time in good faith. --A. B. (talk) 09:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Most appear to have been added by 80.176.10.66 (talk · contribs), who was warned a year ago about spamming and retaliatory vandalism. I'll work on cleaning this up. JonHarder talk 18:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I had to drop this as I was in the middle, but it looks like A. B. picked it up and finished it off. JonHarder talk 22:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Unearth Travel vs. Wikitravel Links

Ohnoitsjaime suggested that I put to the floor the question of adding links to unearthtravel.com on Country Pages and City Pages. Unearth travel is a travel wiki and itinerary builder with no advertising. The reason information cannot be put straight in as encyclopedic content is that it is creative commons...an incompatible license with Wikipedia's as many know, but that does not mean the Wikipedia user should lose out on the travel information. Links have been added to a number of country/city pages within Wikipedia but have been taken down. Given that wikitravel links are being left it seems there is some sort of inconsistent system of editing with respect to this particular issue. Both sites have useful CC information that can be linked to appropriately in a Tourism Section of any External Links, so either surely they should both be there or neither?

Any thoughts? PSBennett—The preceding unsigned comment was added by PSBennett (talk • contribs) 16:11, 29 December 2006.

No, this isn't an either or situation. What we link to doesn't really depend on if it is creative commons, gdfl, or fully copyrighted. The issue is if this is good information or not. Personally I have never seen unearthtravel.com so I can't say but wikitravel is itself a bit hit or mis, with some really good articles and some really poor ones. --T-rex 17:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
First of all -- I like what you're doing with the site and I wish you well.
Having said that, I don't think this wiki is ready to be linked. See these policies and guidelines:
I'm not an expert on wikis, but I suspect Wikitravel may meet the stability and volume criteria above. I think the reasoning behind that exception is based on the idea (belief? hope?) that wikis tend to be self-correcting if they're big enough and active enough. I see they've got over [wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Milestones 10,000 editors]; more importantly, they're averaging about [wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&limit=100 40 to 50 edits per hour].
I get the sense that the [www.wikiindex.org/Unearth_Travel Unearth Travel] isn't at this level yet although I don't know how to access your stats. A quick [www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22Unearth+Travel%22&btnG=Search Google search] and a [www.wikiindex.org/Unearth_Travel check] of [www.wikiindex.org WikiIndex] (itself not a "reliable source") seem to indicate you're much smaller than Wikitravel.
Some editors may be adding Wikitravel links thinking it's another Wikimedia project based on the similar name and appearance (they use the same wiki software). It's not a Wikimedia project and their use of MediaWiki software does not buy them any preference.
Finally, I should note that these links are always inappropriate when added by Unearth Travel employees -- see the Conflict of Interest Guideline. If your wiki grows large enough to make the cut as a reliable source, then at that point you should leave a note (with your link) on the talk page requesting others consider adding your link. --A. B. (talk) 17:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for the clarification and praise. Happy New Year! User talk:PSBennett

PolyAnalyst

I looks like I set off the owner of PolyAnalyst by placing a "notability" tag in the article. The two sentence article has been expanded by an order of magnitude with lists of external sites, papers and books, perhaps to make a point. I think among all of the links that notability has been established, but probably the balance of new material isn't helpful. Is anyone willing to smoothe things over with Jfroelich (talk · contribs)? I expect something similar will be hitting a related article, Megaputer Intelligence. JonHarder talk 23:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

moved to the talk page, should be more appropriate there.--Hu12 23:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

torquewrenches and two linguistics-related websites

Anonymous user has been posting links repeatedly to mutliple articles with the domains www.appliedlinguisitcs.org and www.lingforum.org. The links have been repeatedly removed by me and other users but they consistently reappear. The poster did respond on one talk page - addmitting that they were using the link to gain "PR" (see: Talk:Applied_linguistics#External_link_removed) - also the content the author claims to be providing is all available from other non-commercial websites if he believes it should be linked. Now someone with an anonymous IP who posted the links noted above has posted a link to www.torquewrenches.org from the Torque wrench article. While not conclusive, it uses the same website template and similar language. All the sites are based around supplying minimum content with maxium adsense. Is there anyway to just block these urls from being repeatedly reposted? (Affected articles: DELTA (ELT), English language learning and teaching, Applied linguistics, cognitive science, JET Programme, Language education, Language school, Phonetics, Second language acquisition, Teaching English as a foreign language, and Torque wrench. (Many of the pages are cleaned-up at the moment).Nposs 02:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The above claims are all highly debatable. And my comments below have unfortunately been deleted by Nposs, though they were all signed by me:

-The comment mentioned by Nposs has most likely been made by someone trying to harm the reputation of LingForum, as indicated by the fact that the IP of the fake poster belongs to a totally different country than the IP of the owners of the site, one of whom is me Linguist J 21:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

-The content argument is wrong, too since there is no other academic forum site that is dedicated solely to the discussion of linguistics; thus, this generalization is wrong if it includes LingForum, too - as the author accepted somewhere else. Linguist J 21:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

-The poster is not associated with LingForum. And if he/she provided links to LingForum, the above statement should be corrected since LingForum does provide lots of content and is authoritative in its area. Linguist J 21:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

-With respect to the comment about similar templates, most possibly, the template is copied/stolen, etc. I e-mailed the torque site to inquire more into this Linguist J 21:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

-With regards to Nposs' claim that all the sites are based around supplying minimum content with maxium adsense, it is clear that one cannot include LingForum to this generalization, which is another reason why this very article violates the rights of LingForum. Linguist J 21:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC) Linguist J 22:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Another Reply:
  • OK. I removed the names of the two other sites mentioned with torquewrenches here! Those two are both academic websites dedicated solely to linguistics, and has NOTHING to do with the torque site mentioned here, nor are they owned (or hosted) on the same person, IP, or whatever.
The linguistics websites are both owned by "linguists," and LingForum has already become an authoritative site by itself, linked by many of the top linguistics websites worldwide. And it is the only academic linguistics forum website there on the Web dedicated only to linguistics, which is very well-known by many linguistics professors, too, not only by students. Thus, we believe that calling it spam does not only violate the rights of that website, but also insults the whole society of linguists that are associated with it in one way or another.
As for the site on applied linguistics, that's another case; it is a site purchased recently by us, and is not yet ready! Thus, I do agree with removing links to the (not-yet-ready) site from Wikipedia, though I am absolutely against calling it spam!!! Since we are a community of linguists, linguistics students, and professors, we do not know who "supposedly" wanted to help us by putting the links there. I have removed two such links myself, one from the applied linguistics page and one from the linguistics page... But again one must be very careful in calling that site, too, "spam." A Whois history on the site would be enough for sure... Though the domain is linguistics-related, it was owned by translators, and now it is finally owned by linguists, but not yet ready...

~Jane~ 70.111.246.19 (talk · contribs)

Please do not remove other people's posts from this or from other talk pages. Why are the advertisements displayed at torquewrenches.org registered to lingforum.com? Femto 13:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

You are saying "do not remove," but my comments to you and to Nposs are removed by someone, most possibly Nposs again. As I said many times, the site template has most probably been copied/stolen from LingForum. There are a lot of content generators that do this in order to create as many spam sites as possible with which LingForum is in no way associated. There are such spam sites stolen from Wikipedia, too, which you must have noticed for sure. Linguist J 22:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

A couple of comments. Although I cannot connect to either www.appliedlinguistics.org/com or www.lingforum.org/com to see what they look like today, I have removed links to those sites in the past because they did not conform with our manual of style for external links. We do not accept links to forums, and it doesn't matter who contributes to the forums. As for the appliedlinguistics site, I am concerned about the comment that you have recently purchased the site. If it is not ready, then do not link it. When it is ready, we can look it to determine if it is acceptable for external links. -- Donald Albury 16:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

My comments to you have also been deleted unfortunately, most probably by Nposs, thoug they were signed. This is a very clear indication of something hostile against LingForum, as with the previous attempts by Nposs associating LingForum with some spam sites.
What I said in my original comment was that I agree with your action in removing the links to appliedlinguistics; I have myself removed two such links. Please feel free to do so! And I do not know who put them with what purpose. POssibly someone with hostile purposes... or someone who was "supposedly" trying to help... But again, calling the site spam just because it was linked to by someone is something quite wrong! And again someone's speaking on behalf of us, and still keeping that comment that was made on behalf of us is wrong. The IP of the fake poster is clearly from another country. What I am agaisnt is Nposs' insistence in keeping those comments that were made on behalf of us and his inclusion of an academic site, LingForum as a spam site. And the applied ling. site was owned by "translators" until recently - though the domain is linguistics related. We have recently bought it.

Hi there, Again, we have nothing to do with the torque site! The same webmaster might have prepared it, or they might have directly copied one of our sites, or they might be trying to play a bad game on us. Whatever the reason is, someone is trying to violate the rights of LingForum, which we will inquire. That person might or might not be a Wikipedian. One thing is clear though; we did NOT give the links (on Wikipedia) to the LingForum even, let alone the applied linguistics site. As I said, many people became fans of the former site; so they mark it in social sites like delicious, digg, etc. even, on which we have NO control. ~Jane!

For those following this case - I've now been threatened with a lawsuit by the "LingForum Administration"(User_talk:Nposs#Comments_on_Nposs) - for what, I am not sure. I have made no comments about the lingforum site itself. It is the repeated linking of the site from multiple articles that resembles spamming. The site itself seems inoffensive, but it simply does not fit into the acceptable limits of what should be externally linked (see above comment from Donald Albury). As Femto noted above, there are some suspicious relationships between the three websites, but in the end, it is the content and quality of the sites (or their violation of external linking guidelines) that make them inappropriate and worth removing.Nposs 19:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

As I said, we will inquire into the torquewrenches case. However, associating our name with that site or calling us spam IS a violation of our rights. Again, we have nothing to say against people who put or remove links to our pages, but once they are called spam or associated with other sites that has nothing to do with us, then, that IS a violation of our rights,m and of course we might have to take the necessary legal steps if, of course, this case is not cleared in other non-legal ways. Somehow, someone is playing a bad game on us; this is clear! But I do not know whether this is Nposs, another Wikipedia user, or a non-Wikipedian. One last thing is that we do not know who left that comment on our behalf on Nposs' page. The presence of that comment there is also a violation of our legal rights! Just as the presence of this very article here. User:Linguist_J

What rights? And if you're talking about the comment threatening a lawsuit... it was someone using the same IP that you're using. So it looks like you did. Veinor (ヴエノル(talk)) 19:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
What are you talking about? I put that comment of course! And I am talking about the same thing that I said there. We will have to follow legal steps if this continues like this! Before accusing me of lying, read my above comment more carefully please; it was an answer to Nposs about the legal stuff. There IS a clear violation of our rights, both from that torque site and from the comments that unknowingly asociate us with that site and any other spam. As I said, we cannot prevent anyone from linking to us, and we cannot, similarly, tell anyone not to remove the links. We can, however, have a say against those who are trying to harm our academic sites' reputation by violating our various rights such as speaking on behalf of us. Linguist J 20:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
You said "One last thing is that we do not know who left that comment on our behalf on Nposs' page." I assumed you were talking about that comment on Nposs's talkpage where you threatened to sue him. (note: Linguist J appears to be the same as 70.111.246.19). Veinor (ヴエノル(talk)) 20:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
OK. Great! So, you now know that I was referring to the talk between Nposs and whoever talked to him on behalf of us, arguing that he or she put those links and implying that he is the creator of the site - which IS a CLEAR violation of our rights, though who did it is not clear. But contributing to this wrong deed is also a violation, which, I believe, will soon be understood by Wikipedians and resolved. Linguist J 21:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I might not be able to dedicate more time on this issue now since I do have more important (academic) things to do, but I did send an e-mail to the address given on the torque site - which, as I said, has nothing to do with us. And I notified of other people who are associated with LingForum, whose reputation, I believe, someone is trying to harm. I am hoping that other Wikipedians will not be a part of this bad game! Otherwise, as I said earlier, we will have to take legal actions, though this does not mean that will be against a particular person since who does this whole thing seems not so clear to me as of now. Linguist J 20:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I have blocked Linguist J (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) for violating Wikipedia:No legal threats. -- Donald Albury 00:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

As someone uninvolved in this specific debate, I will say that this indefinite block is well-warranted under the circumstances. Legal threats of any kind are absolutely not tolerated on Wikipedia. -- Satori Son 01:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I concur in the block and I recommend blacklisting the sites if they ever reappear. This comment says it all:
  • "And the reason for its being on Wiki is not that it should generate traffic. But Wiki links does help with PR: Since Wiki is a high PR webpage, and since when a high PR webpage links to another webpage, that webpage's PR increases, this page's existence on Wiki helps this page a lot."
--A. B. (talk) 03:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Observations:
  • "The linguistics websites are both owned by "linguists," and LingForum has already become an authoritative site by itself, linked by many of the top linguistics websites worldwide. And it is the only academic linguistics forum website there on the Web dedicated only to linguistics, which is very well-known by many linguistics professors, too, not only by students. Thus, we believe that calling it spam does not only violate the rights of that website, but also insults the whole society of linguists that are associated with it in one way or another."
    • Google [www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=link:lingforum.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 reports] just three sites link to lingforum.com. One was a Wikipedia mirror.
    • Google [www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=link:appliedlinguistics.org&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 reports] four sites link to appliedlinguistics.org. One was Wikipedia, another a Wikipedia mirror
Accounts used to spam links to appliedlinguistics.org, lingforum.com, thelinguist.org and torquewrenches.org:
Domains involved:
  • www.appliedlinguistics.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.appliedlinguistics.org list] of articles linked
  • www.lingforum.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.lingforum.com list] of articles linked
  • www.thelinguist.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.thelinguist.org list] of articles linked
  • www.torquewrenches.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.torquewrenches.org list] of articles linked
Also added links to two Turkish web sites but these may just reflect ongoing interest in Turkish topics:
  • www.filyos.net
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.filyos.net list] of articles linked
  • www.caycuma.net
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.caycuma.net list] of articles linked
--A. B. (talk) 09:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Comments: (Since Linguist_J and her IP was blocked, she requested that I send this to you)

The above comments by A.B. against Linguist_J are particulary revealing, and in fact - ironically enough - show how Linguist_J was right (though A.B's original goal was to disprove Linguist_J). And this is my last entry/comment. And I will NOT come back here and try to prove anything else. And I will myself remove any links to our sites from Wikipedia that might be put by anybody who might supposedly be trying to help or trying to harm our sites' strong reputation.

My answers to the claims above, especially to those of A.B. are given below:

1. Well, I have repeatedly stated that the above comment, related to PR, made on behalf of us has NOT been made by us, which is one reason why I said the case might lead us to follow the necessary legal steps. We are obviously being accused of saying something which we have not, and a good indication of this is the fact that the IP of the fake poster belongs to a totally different country than ours.

2. And thanks for blocking me though I was right and though we were the ones whose legal rights were violated. I think this blocking case is by itself enough to show what is going wrong with respect to this very case at issue here. I will not come and comment here any more.

3. The argument related to Google backlinks is WRONG! Google updates them very rarely and shows only a portion of them though they have that info, which is a very well-known fact. This said, the best way to check them is to either do an msn backlink search or to use a backlink search site. Or just enter the url of the domain you want to search. In any case, you will not find any spam in the history of LingForum, and you will only find Linguistics-related sites that are very authoritative in the field.

4. The variety of IPs (from several universities, cities, etc.) and domains posted above (that linked to EITHER of the above-mentioned domains) just shows how many users have been interested in especially LingForum all over the world; yes, we have a lot of Turkish users, too, as well as many users from many other countries.

5. Noone says appliedlinguistics site is important; it is not ready yet. Until recently, it belonged to translators (though the domain is linguistics related), and most of the 300 something links to the site are "translation-related." And please check the links in a more appropriate way (using a link checker, or directly typing the url in Google search box).

6. I know that no matter what I say here, some Wikipedia editors/moderators will either block me again or find some IPs there of our users who added links to our site, and carefully and intentionally choose them in a way to prove their own point. This said, there is no point in my being here and trying to show how our rights have been violated! Good bye to you Wikipedia moderators and editors. Since this is your job, you have time to deal with this; I do NOT. I am an academician, and I will work on my own stuff, and will not try to prove any more how some Wikipedia moderators violated our rights by associating us with a spam site that just copied our pages (possibly using a content generator). Smart Wikipedia users/moderators/admins who will read these will already understand what went on here on the spot.

7. Most of the IPs given by A.B. belong to universities, and it seems that muliple users edited multiple articles using those IPs, not just the external links to our sites. This does not require an Einstein genious to figure out; they are universities, and multiple users use those IPs. There will, for sure, be Wikipedia visitors from those IPs, who will edit several different articles, related to linguistics or not. Thus, giving those IPs here makes absolutely no sense other than nicely proving Linguist_J's point. Indeed, A.B. also mentions this briefly saying that the poster might have had sheer interest in the two sites that A.B. gives at the end of her comments. Thanks to her for this understanding at least!

8. Also, LingForum is clearly a top-quality website (I said many times that it is linked by several authoritative linguistics sites worldwide). This being said, many people will still continue to link to us, and some people will - unfortunately - put links to Wikipedia (which I will myself try to remove so as not to be associated with any other sites to which those same users might link). If I stay here more, trying to prove my point, that will do me more bad since, then, as has already happened, some moderators will come up with some other websites that users of our site have linked to, and associate them with us. Cute Example: Let's say a user loves LingForum, and loves George Bush, too. And puts links in Wikipedia to both LingForum and Bush's personal site. Does this mean that Bush was the person who linked to us or that both LingForum and Bush's site are owned by the same person? This is absolutely RIDICILOUS. And the wrong arguments of Wikipedia moderators here are as ridicilous if not more.

Keep up good work and please deal more with real spam sites rather than dealing with two non-profit linguistics sites that have nothing to do with spam whatsoever. But it is at least good to know that Wikipedia moderators take their job seriously and are fast, though it would be better to see a bit more understanding in distinguishing a real spam site from an authioritative site which itself suffered a LOT by spammers and whose content was stolen/copied by a spam site.

Sincerely, ~Jane~ Linguaaaa 01:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

TheLinguist.Org's content -- all 4 pages that I could find -- you decide:
  • [www.thelinguist.org/ Main Page] 118 word discussion of "What is linguistics?" and "What Linguists Do?" + Google ads
  • [www.thelinguist.org/definition2.html Top Linguistics Programs] -- list copied from www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/ + Google ads
  • [www.thelinguist.org/definition3.html Famous Linguists] "We are in the process of preparing the list." + Google ads
  • [www.thelinguist.org/definition1.html Linguistics Related Links] just two links (to their two other linguistics sites) + Google ads
--24.227.139.50 A. B. (talk) 06:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC) (I forgot to sign in)
Re comment above about the editors that added these links:
"4. The variety of IPs (from several universities, cities, etc.) and domains posted above (that linked to EITHER of the above-mentioned domains) just shows how many users have been interested in especially LingForum all over the world; yes, we have a lot of Turkish users, too, as well as many users from many other countries."
Here's a recap of these editors total contributions to Wikipedia:
  • 66.158.148.28 (talk • contribs) four edits -- one adding a wikilink from Boğaziçi University's list of notable alumni to the Tüge Karazincir article, three adding lingfourm.com links.
  • 66.158.150.92 (talk • contribs) five edits -- four adding links to linguistlist.org, cal.org, appliedlinguistics.org, the other linking to www.pitt.edu/linguistics.
  • 66.158.150.69 (talk • contribs) two edits -- one adding a link to appliedlinguistics.org and the other adding a book to an article's references.
  • 66.158.151.141 (talk • contribs) thirteen edits all just adding lingforum.com links (+ adding one link each to tefllogue.com link, teflnews.net, teflwatch.org tefl.com )
  • 67.85.127.220 (talk • contribs) three total edits -- one linking to torquewrenches.org, one inappropriately [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Linguistics&diff=prev&oldid=97047486 deleting] criticism on a talk page of a lingforum.com link, and one deleting an appliedlinguistics.org link
  • 72.10.129.213 (talk • contribs) four edits -- three adding links to lingforum.com, one linking to appliedlinguistics.org
  • 72.10.129.237 (talk • contribs) three edits --four links added to three articles to appliedlinguistics.org and lingforum.com
  • 72.10.141.13 (talk • contribs) seventotal edits -- two adding thelinguist.org to an article, 4 adding filyos.net to an article and one adding caycuma.net to an article.
  • 72.10.141.254 (talk • contribs) six total edits -- the first adding a link to appliedlinguistics.org, the second inappropriately deleting an article talk page comment about the link's suitability[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Applied_linguistics&diff=prev&oldid=95272313], and the next four disparaging the editor Nposs that removed the link[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Nposs&diff=prev&oldid=95290354], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nposs&diff=prev&oldid=95290247], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nposs&diff=prev&oldid=95290212], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Nposs&diff=prev&oldid=95290377] on both Nposs' talk and user pages.
  • 72.10.149.246 (talk • contribs) four total edits, two adding links to lingforum.com
  • 128.230.85.137 (talk • contribs) total edits -- 11 of them just adding links to kingforum.com
  • 132.216.55.205 (talk • contribs) two edits -adding and removing a link to thelinguist.org
  • 142.157.64.169 (talk • contribs) two edits -- one a link to lingforum.com/, the other a link to appliedlinguistics.org
  • 142.157.72.237 (talk • contribs) one edit -- a link to appliedlinguistics.org
  • 142.157.74.113 (talk • contribs) one edit -- a link to appliedlinguistics.org
  • 142.157.64.246 (talk • contribs) four edits: 2 NPOV (but inoffensive) edits to Seneca College, one vandalistic/hoax edit to Seneca College and a link to appliedlinguistics.org
  • 205.201.14.34 (talk • contribs) two edits, both adding links to appliedlinguistics.org -- one with comment "For example, there are some applications of "Discourse Analysis" on applied linguistics (www.appliedlinguistics.org)" (I don't think there's any such thing at site)
  • 206.108.147.203 (talk • contribs) 10 edits, 9 of them adding links to appliedlinguistics.org and lingforum.com,the other a minor typo fix
--A. B. (talk) 16:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Appliedlinguistics.com -- the entire site; see for yourself

  • [www.appliedlinguistics.org/ home page] -- cotent
    • 157 words of text
    • 4 Google ads
  • [www.appliedlinguistics.org/programs_departments_1.html "Some of the top applied linguistics programs worldwide"] -- content:
    • "We are a group of independent linguists. We are all associated with different research universities in the United States and Europe. You can reach us at info@appliedlinguistics.org"
    • 4 Google ads
  • [www.appliedlinguistics.org/links.html "Links"] -- Content:
    • "There are no new links right now. You can send us your favorite linguistics & applied linguistics links at info@appliedlinguistics.org"
    • 12 Google ads
  • [www.appliedlinguistics.org/ma_phd.html "MA & PhD in Applied Linguistics"] -- content:
    • "You can contact us at info@appliedlinguistics.org Alternatively, if you are looking for a linguistics discussion site where you can meet with other linguists and/or linguistics students, you can visit www.lingforum.com"
    • 4 Google ads
  • [www.appliedlinguistics.org/fun_stuff.html "Fun Stuff"] -- cotent:
    • 93-word plug for lingforum.com
    • 14 Google ads
  • [www.appliedlinguistics.org/applied_ling_vs_sla.html "Applied Linguistics vs SLA"] -- content:
    • Cursory 129-word overview
    • 4 Google ads

So why would anyone even link to this site? In particular, why would any linguist not not tied to lingforum.com be linking to it? --A. B. (talk) 17:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Clearly an excessive amount of advets. I would think pages with adverts only may also be against google TOS.--Hu12 21:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Second opinion requested: She keeps deleting all the documentation I had added to her talk page about the spam[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Linguist_J&diff=99240453&oldid=99239128] saying it does not apply to her[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Linguist_J&diff=prev&oldid=99239128]. I think that's disingenuous, but I'm no admin and I may be looling at this incorrectly. Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 04:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

ratemyteachers.com

I don't think that I would call the links to ratemyteachers.com typical spam because they were probably most often added by students from the individual schools that have the links, but after looking at the website, I think that EVERY link to the website other than the RateMyTeachers article should be deleted as inappropriate. I don't have the time to do the link removals. Can it be done by Bot? Here is a list of all 56 links to the website. [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.ratemyteachers.com] BlankVerse 00:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I removed them. IrishGuy talk 20:29, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
THANKS! I didn't check the related website, RateMyProfessors.com, but I would imagine that it also has too many inappropriate links. BlankVerse 00:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the ratemyprofessors site only had one inappropriate link so I removed that one, too. All told, about an hour of editing. Gotta love spam :) IrishGuy talk 00:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

BeyondDC

Jdmalouff (talk · contribs) added approximately 20 links to various city profiles on [www.beyonddc.com beyonddc.com] today. I left him a {{spam}} message and he appears to have stopped for now. He's been a contributor around here on DC area articles. I was looking through the BeyondDC site and found their [beyonddc.com/faq.shtml FAQ page]. It appears that Jdmalouff is the site's "J. Daniel Malouff" presenting a conflict of interest. As expected, I just received (as I'm writing this comment up) a message from him about it, see User_talk:Metros232#Stop_removing_LEGITIMATE_external_links. He feels that I removed the links just because he did it in a high frequency tonight. I replied explaining it's a conflict of interest and pointed to the relevant policies. I'm sure I'll get a message back saying "but this is a non-profit site I'm liking to, I'm not getting anything in return for the links here, etc." so I figured I'd bring this here for outside opinions so as to assure that it doesn't appear like this is a one user crusade against his website. There are [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.beyonddc.com 6 other links] to the site as I post this and all seem decently legit (Corridor Cities Transitway might warrant further investigation as Jdmalouff wrote that article though). Can I have some outside views? Metros232 04:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Well my personal view is that although he shouldn't have added the links as a conflict of interest, and you are 100% right to warn him, you removing links is always an editorial decision and you should only do it considering the best interests of the article rather than how the links got there. --BozMo talk 12:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that even if the links are to sites that meet WP:EL, if they've been added with a conflict of interest, they should be removed. If you have the time, I'd encourage you to leave a note on the article talk pages explaining why you deleted the links and letting other established editors (i.e., not new WP:SPA's) consider adding them back
Having looked at the site, I must say it's an attractive, useful site. I'm not sure, however, that it meets WP:RS and WP:V, but I think if the editors of these articles (other than Jdmalouff) like the links, I would not block them from reinserting it. If there's a WikiProject for the DC area, you might leave a note about the site and asking the participants what they think about the links (independent of COI issues.)
I certainly don't fault your actions and would likely have done the same. --A. B. (talk) 18:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

User Talk pages

Is it considered spam to leave a friendly message on another User's talk page, pointing them to a blog review that discusses a new MediaWiki-based product/service that welcomes something that the Wikipedia User in question has been reprimanded for doing on Wikipedia? So as not to be vague, I am talking about a case where a User may have created a Category that is then deleted from Wikipedia, but this Category would have been welcomed at another off-Wikipedia wiki, such as in this case. I am willing to abide by the community consensus, but I don't appreciate that someone has already made this judgment and REMOVED my comments from other Users' talk pages. It's practically stalking.

Before you jump on the "Of course you are spamming, JossBuckle" bandwagon... please consider that Jimbo's Wikia project is very frequently cited as a recommended alternative to users who are building out Wikipedia in ways that are not considered helpful to the encyclopedia (e.g., with unduly detailed fancruft pages). Examples of this happening can be found here, here, and here. Before you comment that what I have done is unacceptable, ask yourself if it is not also unacceptable to promote Wikia as a preferred alternative to Wikipedia? Is Wikia the "official" external wiki worthy of spam-tolerance? Should Wikia.com be threatened with a permanent blacklist block, as has Centiare?

Please, Wikipedia community. It is getting downright embarrassing how you're enforcing certain rules while turning a blind eye to their gross violation elsewhere. Please respond here with your opinions about this concern of mine. --JossBuckle Swami 13:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

External links to blogs and wikis are inappropriate - see links to be avoided #11 and #12. You are using Wikipedia to promote a site, which is a clear conflict of interest. These make what you are doing clear spamming and it is not appropriate. By the way, editors removing spam links is not stalking. Please take care not to throw accusations around like that. Gwernol 18:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
What are you doing, then, Gwernol, about those suggestions I referenced above, which cited links to an external wiki, called Wikia.com? --JossBuckle Swami 19:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Hah! Thanks for that link to links to be avoided. Very informative. That page clearly says, "No page should be linked from a Wikipedia article unless its inclusion is justified." In no instance was I adding an external link to any article. We're talking about Users' talk pages (other than your own), who did NOT complain to me or to you that they felt they were being spammed. You've crossed a line here, Gwernol. You're censoring dialogue between Wikipedia USERS. There is no justification for such censorship. --JossBuckle Swami 19:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
If the case is that a new user is trying to publish something that is inappropriate for wikipeida, giving them a link to a wiki that does publish that kind of thing should be fine. As long as it's done in the vein of being helpful to the new user and not self-promotion. However, if it appears your making a regular habit of it, then it starts to become spam. ---J.S (T/C) 19:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Good point, J.S. Indeed, since I was trying NOT to be overtly spammy, I provided a link to an independent, third-party REVIEW of the wiki in question, rather than a link to the wiki itself. I don't know how much more sensitive I could be to the potential problem of spamming in Wikipedia? Indeed, I continue to point out the conflict of interest of Wikia.com getting prominent mention in 3,300+ external links from both ARTICLES and Talk pages, but somehow, I'm getting singled out as being a spammer. --JossBuckle Swami 19:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Please understand Wikipedia:Spam#Canvassing or WP:CANVAS are considered guidelines as is COI on Wikipedia.--Hu12 20:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Although I was skeptical of your claims that I could make money, I did not consider the comment and links you left in my talk page to be spam. Now, if I received messages like that on my talk page all the time, and they all turned out to be scams, it would really irritate me. But this is the first such message I have received so far on my talk page and it was related to a category being proposed for deletion. I welcome such messages with open arms. I think it's a question of the frequency and purpose of placing such links on user talk pages as to whether or not they are spam. Andrea Parton 20:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Gwernol you need to stay out of personal communications between users. You need stop sending non-sense warnings because you didn't read the post. There is nothing wrong with asking for help from people that worked on similar projects or the same project. Asking for help is not a personal attack. Just because you are not of the same opinion on a subject does not make it a personal attack. --71Demon 21:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
As I explained on your talk page, I was not objecting to you asking for help. I was asking you not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks on editors by calling them "WikiNazis" and "assholes". Gwernol 21:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Gwernol reading requires you to comprehend what you read, something you failed to so. The word PERSONAL in personal attack, actually requires the attack to be personal. When you are refering to a generic 3rd person as a WikiNazi in a private conversation, that Gwernol is not part of to start with is not a personal attack, and is prying into things you were not ask to pry into. You need to say out of things until you are ask!!!!!! --71Demon 21:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
As I explained on your talk page, just because you don't explicitly name the object of your attack, doesn't mean its not a personal attack. It was perfectly clear who you were referring to, so it was a clear personal attack. You are also under the misapprehension that talk pages are somehow private, and immune from the rules of Wikipedia such as WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL. They are not. If you cross the line into personal attacks, any editor may request you to stop that behavior. Gwernol 21:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Definition of Personal ADJECTIVE Of or relating to a particular person, private, "Like their personal lives, women's history is fragmented, interrupted" (Elizabeth Janeway). It was a term used to discribe a generic 3rd person. It was in a conversation a private conversation with another user. That adjective would have to have been used to discribe that user, and it was not. Go back and read the conversation you were never part of again, and try to comprehend. --71Demon 21:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

JossBuckle Swami--Asside from campaigning and Canvassing for contributions, aparently now Votestacking, please cease this behavior. see [1][2][3][4][5][6] [7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]--Hu12 21:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It's votestacking to notify the people I was talking to, to let them know that my comments to them were censored out of existence? And 100% of them who have replied have indicated that they found some value in my initial communication? Talk about wikilawyering. --JossBuckle Swami 13:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm unclear if JossBuckle Swami is really looking for honest feedback or just looking to chew some butt. Here are some data:
--A. B. (talk) 02:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


How about this, everyone? Before there's a complete witch hunt to discover where JossBuckle lives and who he dated in high school, answer this question: If there's a Wikipedia user whose Category is headed for deletion, would it be okay to leave a message on his/her Talk page, which says the following:

I noticed that the Category you created, "Foo that are Bar", is likely headed for deletion. I understand that categories like this take quite some time to develop and flesh out, yet this particular one appears to be unwelcome at Wikipedia. I hope that you will continue your work here at Wikipedia. However, just so you know, there are also other wikis out there that might very well welcome such a Category project as yours. You might start by looking at Wikia.com, Centiare.com, or PBwiki.com. Note: no actual hyperlinks, to minimize spamminess.

Would that be considered spam? The reason I'm interested in doing this, is because Category deletionism has been rampant recently, and a lot of talented Wikipedians are having their feelings hurt. Letting them know that their industry and talent might be welcome in another place is showing some more kindness than just deleting their Category. I would like to include Centiare.com, because I was very impressed with the write-up about it that Scott Baradell offered in his blog last week. I am not like other Wikipedians who think that Wikia.com is the only external alternative wiki that should ever be mentioned in Wikipedia, because that's endorsing a severe conflict of interest that Jimmy Wales and Angela Beesley have. --JossBuckle Swami 13:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I am of the opinion that such a message, intended primarily to promote one or more commercial websites, would be inappropriate spam as well. -- Satori Son 21:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Network neutrality

I'm not certain if this article was already discussed, but it appears to be a magnet for ELs ranging from commercial websites, blogs, forums, non-English, POV, etc. 4 pages broken into 10 categories. Even citations appear to be piggy-backed with commercial links. It gets to a point where the really good ELs simply get smothered with opinion or spam. Not sure where to start, but I'm inclined to clean out the EL section completely and put a warning up to spammers. Since this is a controversial topic, I'd like other opinions here first. Thanks! Calltech 17:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Eeeeek! That articel is HORRIFYING! While I haven't done an exhaustive check of the links, some of the section headers seem to be questionable enough to me. If you do do something about those links I will strongly support you. 68.39.174.238 03:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Removed blogs section per Links normally to be avoided, unfortunatly this article has reached the Spam Event Horizon, and needs be dealt with.--Hu12 04:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

www.haystack.com

There are currently 50 articles with external links to this site. Mattw13 (talk · contribs), who is an SPA, has added most of them. Jgarbis (talk · contribs), another SPA, has added some. I'm still looking for other accounts adding these links. Many of the links are labeled 'official'. I'm going to block the accounts, and start cleaning up the links. -- Donald Albury 17:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and then there is [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jaranda&diff=prev&oldid=97542179 this] 'justification' for the links. -- Donald Albury 17:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Wow! If only identifying spammers was always so easy. -- Satori Son 14:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Current list of links: 2 left
--A. B. (talk) 22:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ferrari-spammer at it again

Tanned, rested and ready after a one week manadatory editing break earlier this month, 81.97.107.117 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) is back at it again. For background, see:

I have no time to deal with this -- can the next shift handle? Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 03:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted the spam on Ferrari and warned the user again. Gwernol 03:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
  • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.waterfishing.info waterfishing.info links]: 1 left
  • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.ferrariworld.com ferrariworld.com links]: 11 left
--A. B. (talk) 22:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Just a second -- www.ferrariworld.com links to a site that's owned by Ferrari S.p.A. -- it's not spam if it's a link in an article about a Ferrari is it?? --A. B. (talk) 05:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

External link formatting question

[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Information_and_Communication_Technologies_for_Development&diff=next&oldid=92716138 This edit] on a page I watch has me confused. The addition: Low cost computer guide doesn't have the arrow image indicating it's external and it's also written like a wikilink ([[Appropedia:Low cost computer guide|Low cost computer guide]]). But it is the color of an external link and if you click on it it takes you to www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Low_cost_computer_guide. Appropedia is a Wiki run on mediawiki software but doesn't appear to be affiliated with the Wikimedia Foundation. It's new to me. Has anyone seen this before? Will it work for any external site (and how?), any ideas how we would search for links that had been added in this manner? -- Siobhan Hansa 15:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

This is question about an obscure topic I can actually answer. Anything in the interwiki map can be linked this way. ✤ JonHarder talk 15:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Jon. I don't think I'd ever have found that on my own. -- Siobhan Hansa 15:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Holy $#%&! We've got Wikimedia-wide "custom namespaces" for external links!? And they don't turn up in searches? Any distinction between internal and external sites is completely blurred. A YouTube: namespace! On the same level with the commons:? What do we have templates for? Separate templates for external links are evil enough. That's the most useless and dangerous "feature" ever. Are they #@&% nuts? [What are they thinking?] Femto 16:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC), 11:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I made a request to remove YouTube from the inerwikilist. Looks like it was added around christmas. ---J.S (T/C) 18:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
That's a start, though I think this list requires more drastic measures (it usually takes a lot to get such reactions out of me). Anyone feel free to join my rant at Wikipedia talk:External links#Meta "custom namespaces". Femto 12:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

jqjacobs.net

I have run across jqjacobs.net links before and let them go as being relatively harmless. Yesterday a single IP added added links to 20+ articles, sometimes adding multiple entries to a single article. I have reverted all of those insertions. I would like a second opinion about removal from the remaining 100 articles. If you do some checking, yesterday's prolific spammer would often change "External links" to "External Links", change third-level E-L subsections to second level, or add a new "Placemarks" section. I suggest that any edits that fit this pattern can be removed as being from the same spammer. ✤ JonHarder talk 15:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd say pull them. They are nothing more than original research personal essays. Nothing encyclopedic there. IrishGuy talk 18:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to those who helped out with this. A spot check of about 10% of the remaining 50 links shows that they were added by good-faith editors. I'm willing to leave it at that for now. ✤ JonHarder talk 01:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

thismatter.com

thismatter.com Looks like an adsense scrapper site (MFA). doesn't seem to have any other purpose ecept to catch page views. even the contact info for the site states Be sure to include the words no spam in the subject. If you do not include the words, the email will be deleted automatically.--Hu12 02:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Appears primarily to be the work of User:Wcspaulding who has been asked to refrain from such linking in the past.Nposs 03:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
And he happens to own the website (see: www.aboutus.org/ThisMatter.com).Nposs 03:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks like his additions were made in pretty good faith (he has made lots of other valuable contributions.) I've left a note on his talk page discouraging from self-linking (and proposing his links on the talk pages if he thinks they are appropriate.) I've deleted the obvious links he made himself, but left those that were potentially placed by other editors. Nposs 03:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hu12 (talk • contribs) 05:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC).--Hu12 05:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up: brief discussion with him on his user talk page - recognizes that they are self-links but feels he is entitled to them (which makes me somewhat less sympathetic to his case - especially since he mentions the importance of revenue from ads.) Here's the [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.thismatter.com|list of articles] that link to .thismatter.com. Of these, many contain non-neutral promotion using the same "concise article about ..." format (see: Taskbar, Criticisms_of_electoralism, Bond_(finance), Futures_contract, Mutual_fund_fees_and_expenses, Russell_Indexes, Investment_banking, Investment_banking, and Security_(finance). Nposs 19:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I restore the comments deleted by User:Wcspaulding that directly relate to ThisMatter.com spam campaign.--Hu12 20:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
He can delete them if he wants. They're archived [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Wcspaulding&diff=98135877&oldid=98134932|here.] Nposs 20:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I find the site owner's rationale for ignoring the Conflict of Interest guideline to be entirely unpersuasive. Basically, they feel like certain finance articles suck, but instead of taking the time to improve them, it would be easier to link to their own, better article, where they can be compensated with ad revenue for doing us such a big favor. Last time I checked, Wikipedia has been doing just fine with the efforts of over three million unpaid volunteers.

But even overlooking the significant COI violations, [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.thismatter.com the links] also violate WP:EL's prohibition against "sites with objectionable amounts of advertising." I have begun reviewing and removing them, but would appreciate further assistance. -- Satori Son 20:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The links in other articles may not have been placed there by Wcspaulding but that doesn't mean they were good faith edits. 67.76.153.37 placed quite a few and those were his/her only edits...which is definitely linkspamming. IrishGuy talk 20:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

False edit summary "helping Hu12 remove "spam"!"

Was just made aware Sinned (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) is vandalizing EL sections and leaving edit summaries stating helping Hu12 remove "spam"!. Only contact with this person is removig his spam campain for powdermill-snowmobile-club.com see User talk:Sinned. Any advice, or help would be appreciated.--Hu12 04:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, from what I've seen his recent edits are fairly legit. Am I missing something? His edit summaries might be a bit pointy, but the few edits I looked at looked ok. ---J.S (T/C) 04:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The irony is I also agree with his edits. Am very opposed to the edit summaries.. for obvious reasons.--Hu12 04:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Then stop being so bitey on his talk page :) ---J.S (T/C) 05:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
chomp chomp, I'll soften it more..--Hu12 05:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll assume good faith that the summaries weren't a tantrum for removing his site. I've had that happen before, so excuse the bite.--Hu12 05:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the specifics of Wikipedia's spam policies until Hu12 gave me a warning. I got the impression from the large number of commercial links on the articles for pages of towns/cities in New Hampshire, as well as some towns in Ontario I was looking at, that it was acceptable to add links to local recreational clubs to articles for towns/cities. --Sinned 11:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

We certainly understand someone making a first-time mistake; we've all been there. I think Hu12's main concern was that your subsequent edit summaries made it look like those edits were somehow approved or directed by him/her. While the handful of your edits I looked at seemed like pretty good improvements to the articles, you can find better edit summary examples at Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam#Standardised edit summary. Thanks and welcome! -- Satori Son 14:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Sinned (talk · contribs) has been removing external links that are used as references. I noticed this on the Hampton Beach article. While the links did not necessarily back up the assertions to the article, inclusion of inline references should be assumed as good faith. Because editing an article to include refs can be time consuming, it may be more advisable to place a notice on an article's talk page that some of the refs may not be appropriate rather than arbitrarily removing them and leaving it to the article's regular editors to clean up the mess. Also, on first appearance looking at the contribs, this does smack as WP:POINT, but I'll assume good faith for now. —Malber (talk • contribs) 18:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)]

Handling Spam

On the English Wikipedia, and on others, spam is (obviously) becoming an increasing problem. The purpose of this essay is to propose a few ways to fight spam on a multiwiki, foundational level. While trying to keep it broad, there is some excellent specific stuff that is there that isn't here and vise versa; I'd encourage the editors here to skip over to the meta essay and add their expertise. JoeSmack Talk 00:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I notice that many of the links posted to en are also posted to other languages. Is there any mechanism or system in place to share information between people rooting out link spam across languages? (For example: our friends at appliedlinguistics.org can be found on es and de.)Nposs 02:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This is it, you're looking at it. It is the best there is right now. JoeSmack Talk 02:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Interesting. Whenever someone adds an external link to Nightwish or Tarja Turunen, I must remove it from also all the other versions. Since I do not know many of those languages (I have accounts there for interwikis and inserting Commons images), I can't warn them. It would be nice to have statistics about which links have been added into several wikis to determine if they can be blacklisted. -- ReyBrujo 03:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

www.aim-search.com

I've been reverting a lot of spam from www.aim-search.com today. For example, see [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pornography&diff=prev&oldid=98314667 pornography], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sildenafil&diff=prev&oldid=98311667 Sildenafil], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Phentermine&diff=prev&oldid=98302546 Phentermine], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tramadol&diff=prev&oldid=98302763 Tramadol]. As far as I can see there isn't much value in this "search eninge" beyond acting as a spam portal. Thoughts on whether this is a good candidate for the spam blacklist? Gwernol 01:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

As near as I can tell, it isn't a search engine. I searched for "theonion.com" (obviously a popular website) and all I got were spam links to the same sales sites on the main page. This is spam in every sense of the word. IrishGuy talk 01:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I've submitted it to the spam blacklist and its now blacklisted [meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASpam_blacklist&diff=505912&oldid=505905]. Gwernol 13:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia and Link Spammers - A “How-to” Guide

Many of you have probably seen this – it was first posted back in April 2006 – but blogger Peter T. Davis' first person account of Wikipedia link spamming, entitled [www.petertdavis.net/176-wikipedia-and-link-spammers-a-how-to-guide/ "'How-to' Guide for Link Spammers"], is still an interesting read. It was really being tossed around there for a while, partially reprinted as "How To Link Spam Wikipedia" both by [www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=3240 Search Engine Journal] and [www.lockergnome.com/nexus/search/2006/04/10/how-to-link-spam-wikipedia/ Search Engineer], among others. And spammers have gotten even savvier since then, so we really need to be on our toes. -- Satori Son 01:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

They are pretty old links, but still pay heed. Luckily they are still missing some of the more deceitful and crafty tricks. JoeSmack Talk 05:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Angela spamming list hosted by Wikimedia Foundation

Time to stir the pot, but Angela makes me do it. It was interesting to see (yet again) Angela Beesley "marketing" the services of Wikia.com to the Wikipedia community, this time through the [mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l WikiEN-l mailing list] which is sponsored on Wikimedia servers that we users pay for with tax-deductible donations:

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:53:30 +0000
From: Angela <beesley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Thousands of *awful* articles on websites
To: "Bogdan Giusca" <liste@dapyx.com>, "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l@wikipedia.org>
On 1/3/07, Bogdan Giusca <liste@dapyx.com> wrote:
> Wikipedia has way too many articles on websites, webcomics and
> other types of internet content -- likely thousands.
>
> The problem is that around 95% of those articles are not sourced (or
> they are sourced from forum and blog posts) and at least 70% won't be
> able to be sourced because they were never mentioned in the mainstream
> press -- and probably very few were mentioned in books and journals.
>
> I deleted about 50 of them, which looked totally non-notable
This seems a waste. Just because something hasn't been written about by the mainstream press doesn't make it worthless to people reading Wikipedia.
internet.wikia.com/index.php?title=User:Angela&oldid=1943 shows 17 examples of pages you deleted today which I've rescued for the Internet Wiki, but it's a shame so many hundreds like those are being deleted every day rather than moved to a more suitable wiki or rewritten to make them suitable for Wikipedia.
Angela
(emphasis mine)

So, it's okay to "suggest" to other users a "more suitable wiki", especially if it's Wikia, which will put more Google ad revenues into Angela's pocket. Nobody else sees this as shameful? Just a few minutes later, another robotic Wikipedian responded, "Maybe there should be some way to mark the articles which are not notable for wikipedia, but are worthy to be included in internet.wikia.com. For example, one would include 'I7W' (non-notable website) as reason for deletion and a bot would monitor the deletion log and take the deleted articles marked that way and automatically post them on internet Wikia."

Jesus Christ, should we just make a "bot" that will transfer from every dollar donated to Wikimedia Foundation, one nickel into Angela's pocket, and a dime into Jimbo's? This is getting completely out of hand! --JossBuckle Swami 03:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed for the most part. There isn't much wrong using a bot to do this indipendently as the gdfl clearly allows it, however the promoting of the site in links and suggestions like that is a problem. If Angela wants to do it herself fine, but asking other people to do so is a problem. That said, you arn't going to find yourself popular for saying so... --T-rex 04:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Heck, life's too short to worry about things like that. --BozMo talk 09:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Or that someone has added a link on every page to 501(c) in a long multi-link advert for WMF. That's pretty US centric... --BozMo talk 09:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Weather links

I would like an opinion on www.mymetar.com which contains four google ads per page. It is currently in a few articles including the METAR one and a template that is not being used. It provides weather for airports around the world and would be useful in airport articles. It's almost impossible to link to the individual weather station using the countries weather service. I would like to see the template used but I'm too close to the subject to see if its spam or not. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

repositories.cdlib.org

Plbman‎ (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)

repositories.cdlib.org
I guess "working for the public good' include spamming hundreds of links. User_talk:FisherQueen#Regarding_External_Link_I_added_to_an_online_book_on_the_historical_status_of_the_Klamath_River_salmon_fishery and User_talk:Plbman#Reply_to_your_request
--Hu12 02:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion over at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Hundreds_of_links..._to_a_good_site regarding my reverting these links. I posted my comments there. Calltech 23:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

EJRS.com links coming back

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2006 Archive Dec#“powered by EJRS.com”. These links [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ejrs started returning] today. --A. B. (talk) 05:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Anon SPA link spamming of Jerky (food)

It's a fairly minor issue, but I've been dueling with anonymous SPA's for over four months trying to keep the Jerky (food) article free of spam links. The latest sockpuppet is 65.102.75.12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), and their first edit was revert substituting a decent NASA inline citation with a link to a commercial website that sells beef jerky. If one or two of you could stick it on your watchlist I would really appreciate the help. Thanks, Satori Son 17:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm watching it. I've already had to revert spam twice. Both times it was 63.239.251.86 substituting a commercial link for the NASA link. IrishGuy talk 02:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I think there are several different clusters:
  • beefjerky.cc
    • www.beefjerky.cc
      • Current list of articles with this link
    • Other links spammed by this user:
      • www.ixhair.com (Michigan hair salon)
        • Current list of articles with this link
      • www.heartlandsteaks.com
        • Current list of articles with this link
    • Location: unknown (not a retail business)
    • Account used:
--A. B. (talk) 01:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

links to duplicate and scrapped content

1911encyclopedia.org 1151 links & owned by LoveToKnow [www.1911encyclopedia.org/LoveToKnow_1911:About About LoveToKnow]
lovetoknow.com 38 links & owned by LoveToKnow [www.lovetoknow.com/about-lovetoknow.htm About LoveToKnow]
britannica.com holly cow! I stopped countng after 46 thousand links [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&limit=500&offset=46500&target=%2A.britannica.com]
thecanadianencyclopedia.com 811 links Canadian Encyclopedia

I'm sure others have see these. I don't se a reason why Wikipedia should be external linking to other duplicate wikis. is there a policy specific to this? I'm inclined to remove them all.--Hu12 06:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/External_links] "Wikimedia projects are not search engines or link repositories. They should be kept to a useful minimum, and provide relevant and non-trivial information that isn't present in the page. "
Does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article alread contains Links normally to be avoided--Hu12 06:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I disagree strongly with removing links to other encyclopedias. While both the Wikipedia article and the one in Britannica would be similarly structured encyclopedia topics on a subject, it is fairly rare that every piece of information has been imported into Wikipedia. Moreover, in the majority of cases these links are in the references section, and other encyclopedias are perfectly valid references. - SimonP 03:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Bharatanatyam

Please take a look at the links in this article: several of them are commercial, but other editors keep restoring them to the article when I remove them, calling the removal vandalism. Thanks. A Ramachandran 15:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Noted while cleaning up the article above:
  • in.geocities.com/medhahari (web site for a dancer)
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.in.geocities.com%2Fmedhahari list] of articles and images with this link
Some of the images are digitally watermarked -- I wonder if this means they should be deleted? --A. B. (talk) 19:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
This article is still a hotspot for spam. And check contributions carefully: today Thegist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) inserted several spam links with the edit summary "removed vandalism". -- Satori Son 16:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Update: multiple editors with various agendas and histories (2 of them suddenly active after several years absence) are reverting link removals to such sites as webvoter.net and dancers' promotional pages. They're characterizing the deletions as vandalism. I am about to hit 3RR -- if someone wants to watch this, it would be great. I left detailed comments on the talk page yesterday discussing the issues but with little effect (or response).[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ABharatanatyam&diff=99257823&oldid=99033317] I'm also open to feedback if I'm doing something wrong here.--A. B. (talk) 16:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

in.geocities.com/medhahari

Promotional site for the dancer Medha Hari:

  • in.geocities.com/medhahari/
    • There are [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.in.geocities.com%2Fmedhahari numerous links] to this site from various Wikipedia articles

Can others look at these and see if they should be deleted? I think they probably should, but additional neutral opinions and help would be welcome. Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 13:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, there are multiple images that may or may not be appropriate per WP:IUP -- some are watermarked. --A. B. (talk) 13:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The deluge of sock-puppets/meat-puppets is coming faster than I have time for.
Can some admin here semi-protect the Bharatanatyam article? My experience of going the official way at WP:PROTECT is that it takes forever to get an answer and the answer is often "no" (or else the semi-protection is lifted prematurely).
Accounts I've just warned:
Thanks for your help. --A. B. (talk) 07:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Also:
  • www.medha.info/
    • List of articles with these links
The same accounts are adding some other links back as well, but I think that's probably just to make a POINT -- the real focus is the Medha Hari linking.
--A. B. (talk) 07:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
in.geocities.com/medhahari links have been removed from all other articles. The only exceptions have been some image files and the Medha Hari article itself. They continue to be reinserted in the Bharatanatyam article.
Seem to be a lot of SPAs/ potential sock puppets around: I am not sure how to report these or check IPs for sockpuppetry...--BozMo talk 10:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Net_neutrality

the external links section of Net_neutrality needs a cleaning badly. i'm afraid i haven't been following the issue, so I am of less help as it is full of "papers" and "experts" etc. (notice the quotes). JoeSmack Talk 17:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


Wrathoffoamy

One to watch User:Wrathoffoamy is persistent in trying to advertise his/her business in Origami. I've gotta quit for tonight... Thanks. Pollinator 07:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Spamming wikipedia with wikis

Stumbled on this when Kkong (talk · contribs · logs · block log) posted a link to an article I watch. Turns out all his edits aare to promote these websites:

These are wikis with a low number of users so inappropriate as external links even if they weren't being spammed.

They are all registered to the same person and all use the same google ad client number (and they are all plastered in google ads): pub-0064587396664963

Other IPs occassionally post a batch of links:

  • 155.69.74.37 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=155.69.74.37 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=155.69.74.37 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=155.69.74.37 RBLs] • block log)
  • 220.255.235.149 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=220.255.235.149 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=220.255.235.149 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=220.255.235.149 RBLs] • block log)
  • 220.255.254.15 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=220.255.254.15 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=220.255.254.15 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=220.255.254.15 RBLs] • block log)
  • 220.255.247.211 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=220.255.247.211 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=220.255.247.211 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=220.255.247.211 RBLs] • block log)
  • 220.255.50.206 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=220.255.50.206 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=220.255.50.206 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=220.255.50.206 RBLs] • block log)
  • 121.6.84.229 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=121.6.84.229 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=121.6.84.229 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=121.6.84.229 RBLs] • block log)

More detail can be found at: User:SiobhanHansa/Checks#lifestylewiki.com_airline-wiki.com_chinese-wiki.com

That seems to be it from the trail I have. I would recommend to the blacklist but I haven't had much luck with the recommendations I've made so I think I'm unclear on the guidelines. Other opinions? -- Siobhan Hansa 18:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Found a second sock account for Kkong, Hhjlai (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log), although inactive I suspect it may become.--Hu12 07:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Ragnarev / Alfaro spam

Ragnarev (talk · contribs) has been slowly been adding links to his own sites over the past several months: esbanquethallga.com, rayvan.net (1 link remaining), ameritech-elevator.com, lees-estate.com (1 link remaining), warspawn.com (1 link remaining) and ragnarev.com. A whois search reveal they are all registered to the same person. The links have mostly been removed by alert editors; unfortunately no one has yet warned him.

Office complex and Banquet hall were created solely as a vehicle for link spam. The articles are not that great. Is there something they can be redirected to?

How about redirecting Office complex to Industrial park? ✤ JonHarder talk 23:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Today we learned Ragnarev has a [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Internet_cafe&curid=1009877&diff=99181567&oldid=97439990 right to link to his own site]. We need a creative warning for this spam-only account! ✤ JonHarder talk 23:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I would have appreciated somebody warning me that this was spam. I simply told one of my contractors to add some of our sites to Wiki to attributed fields.

--Ragnarev 16:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Project 80s

This site is [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.project80s.com spammed all over]. The site itself has pretty much no content. Just a cast list for shows and a brief blurb, often times taken from Wikipedia itself. It has advertising all over the place which appears to be its reason for existing. It is going to take me a while to pull all these links out of articles. Anyone want to assist? IrishGuy talk 00:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There were 65 links. I've got them down to 32. Taking a break now. IrishGuy talk 00:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Cleared out. There appear to have been three accounts responsible -
  • Kckoch (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log)
  • 24.190.112.45 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=24.190.112.45 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=24.190.112.45 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=24.190.112.45 RBLs] • block user • block log)
  • 151.202.237.10 (talk • contribs • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=151.202.237.10 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=151.202.237.10 RDNS] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=151.202.237.10 RBLs] • block user • block log)
Kckoch and 151.202.237.10 had already been warned. I warned 24.190.112.45 and added a second to 151.202.237.10 since s/he had added a link after the first warning. Turns out I didn't read the older warning properly. This is a spam only account who has been continually warned and even blocked once. But the last edit was October so blocking it is probably inappropriate for now. I'll add the url and the user to my list to keep an eye on. -- Siobhan Hansa 00:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the assistance. My eyes were starting to get bleary from staring at the computer screen :) 151.202.237.10 was the one that I initially traced. I saw the spam in 48 Hrs. while doing routine editing. I traced through the history and found that IP. Once I saw how many he had put in, I just did a linksearch...and unfortunately found many more. Well, I guess it gave me something to do. :)IrishGuy talk 01:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Kckoch and 151.202.237.10 were back at it this morning. I left another warning for Kckoch. 151.202.237.10 was blocked for two days by User:Yamla. -- Siobhan Hansa 17:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

www.lifeinneurosurgery.com and User:Lifeinneurosurgery

Not sure about this one since I don't see the immediate benefit to the spammer - maybe just driving up page hits. The action is very spammy ([en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.lifeinneurosurgery.com list]): the user has added multiple links to the website from multiple articles even including the link in See Also sections. The content of the pages linked is very thin, not really worth linking (even if it didn't violate WP:COI). With the bad experiences had by well meaning editors, I thought I'd draw your attention to it and get some feedback before taking action. Nposs 02:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The site checks out ([www.aboutus.org/LifeInNeurosurgery.com about.us]), in fact it might be Dr. Ammar himself (the user uploaded a .pdf about an award the doctor is offering for the best article someone else writes for the website ([en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Research_prize.pdf link]). The actions support this promotional activity. Nposs 02:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I pulled the links out. It is spam. Not one edit that actually adds content. In a few articles he/she added multiple links to the site. I gave the user a spam warning. IrishGuy talk 02:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

He's back as User:Neurosurgery - Special:Contributions/Neurosurgery (only one link so far.)

etymonline.com: 940 links

Seen while cleaning up other links:

  • www.etymonline.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.etymonline.com list] of articles with this link -- 940 links

Take the Muskellunge article (about a fish). Here's the link that was there:

  • [www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=muskellunge&searchmode=none Online Etymological Dictionary: Muskellunge]

Tell me how this advances any readers understanding of muskies, their biology or how you catch them. I submit that even the underwater-dock-lights spammer's stuff is more useful to the reader: underwater-dock-lights.com (That is not an endorsement of underwater-dock-lights, however). --A. B. (talk) 02:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Well it gives you a bit of an idea about how they were viewed when the name was given. That's a little bit historical and encyclopedic. I'm stretching. I kind of like the etymology sections in articles, though I wouldn't be prepared to defend their inclusion. Seems like a link to wiktionary should cover etymology really. Have the links been spammed or is the site just popular with word geeks who edit Wikipeida? -- Siobhan Hansa 02:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Adword bait? It's realy redundent to wikionary. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 06:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
A number seem to have been added in good faith by Fastifex (talk • contribs), a high volume editor. This site also has non-etymology-related, historical columns written by the site's owner, a published historian; I think the columns probably meet WP:RS because of the author's status. The history columns have no ads.
After spending about 30 to 60 minutes looking at the site and the links, I think it's mostly harmless. The site has some ads, but it appears to be maintained mostly as a labor of love by its owner from what I can tell.
I think some of the links are worth deleting on the grounds of relevance (for instance the muskellunge link above) but I figure the regular editors of various articles can make that call.
That's my 2 cents worth -- others may see it differently. --A. B. (talk) 06:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Removal how-to

I added a new "Removal how-to" section on the main project page. This is intended to be a basic step-by-step guide for beginners. Each step increases in complexity; an editor can choose to stop anywhere in the progression. My idea is to make it as basic as possible for someone who is interested in helping but isn't sure of the process. How can it be improved? I think changes that simplify would be better than trying to add every possible nuance and special case.

I think the lead of the main page could be trimmed or parts of it moved farther down. The new material duplicates material that follows. This can be cleaned up once there is a consensus that the how-to is appropriate and stable. ✤ JonHarder talk 02:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice write up JH--Hu12 06:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Yep, helpful. One minor thing though it is worded as though you always pick up spam on a watch list. A problem I often encounter is people picking up spam browsing and then deleting it instead of reverting it. Spam is often an over-write (especially flagrant spam) so doing this loses content. Since I have to explain this on userpages of the deleting editors having a para which explained it and told people how to edit would help (e.g. User_talk:Viperphantom#Re:Vandalism). --BozMo talk 10:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I've added wording that I hope addresses this suggestion adequately. ✤ JonHarder talk 23:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Repeated and Egregious Commercial and Self-Promoting Link Spam within Most Old Time Radio Articles

This is an ongoing problem what no one seems to be willing to either intervene in or investigate. [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=libsyn.com&fulltext=Search Libsyn.com] in particular seems to be using it's 300+ imbedded links throughout Wikpedia as it's most effective free advertising source, as well as [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=www.otrsite.com&fulltext=Search www.otrsite.com] and [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=www.freeotrshows.com&fulltext=Search www.freeotrshows.com]. I realize this is only 400+ articles out of hundreds of thousands, but they're pretty representative of the further problem. The fact that no one seems to be responding to any of these larger scale link spam abuses over the past 9 months smacks of either some sort of 'convenient' overlooking of the problem, or perhaps even worse, no effective guidelines for resolving link spam abuse within Wikipedia. Any further assistance or more effective strategies or guidelines--including kicking this problem up the Wikipedia hierarchy if necessary--would be greatly appreciated.76.170.239.56 21:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm just starting to dig into this one, but here are the web search links for those also interested:
  1. [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.Libsyn.com&limit=500&offset=0 *.libsyn.com] (312 articles)
  2. [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.otrsite.com&limit=500&offset=0 *.otrsite.com] (58 articles)
  3. [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.freeotrshows.com *.freeotrshows.com] (40 articles)
Haven't yet looked at the linked pages themselves. -- Satori Son 21:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
www.freeotrshows.com/ appears to violate WP:C, at least. The www.otrsite.com links appear to have been added in good faith (at least in the articles I checked). Linking to articles with commercial content isn't explicitly outlawed, and in the case of this website, the logs of shows that it provides could be a valuable addition to the articles. (Checking some of the discussion pages, it appears that 76.170.239.56 and others have been engaging in a long term disagreement over proper external links.) Nposs 22:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
As has been pointed out, as well as widely known throughout the radio collector community, otrsite.com offers every single one of their logs from one--I repeat one--page. Hence one--and only one--link is necessary to accomplish that purpose, not the 40 - 90 that the site's minions have been peppering throughout the radio related articles of Wikipedia.76.170.239.56 22:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

While on the subject of deciding, I found another website offering "free" downloads of OTR shows that should be considered as well www.radiolovers.com ([en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.radiolovers.com%2F *.radiolovers.com]). It seems these websites believe that the copyright has expired on the shows. At the same time both radiolovers and freeotrshows.com feature ads. Nposs 22:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Full disclosure: 76.170.239.56 has a little [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Ambassador_Hotel&diff=next&oldid=99209753 link spam] of their own. Nposs 22:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
How about some truly 'full' disclosure? If you followed that link, to the Art The Doorman article did you see even one--I repeat one--even remotely commercial reference at or on that link? If you're going to get into 'full disclosure' you might have the integrity to explain in 'full' how full your disclosure has been. Just asking for a fair assessment here. I hardly see how a totally NON-commercial link to a page that can only be accessed from referring sites to begin with, can be construed as commercial, or even 'self-promoting'. The man promoted there has been dead for three years.76.170.239.56 22:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
For once, I agree with 76.170.239.56. There is nothing to buy on that page and it offers vintage photographs that can't easily be found elsewhere. I think anyone who has an interest in The Ambassador Hotel would find the link interesting. Perhaps he shouldn't have added it himself, because it's his site, but if someone removes it I will add it back on myself. PrinceAl 12:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Comments and questions:
  • Have these links been campaign-spammed?
Sorry. Didn't know who you addressing them to. Yes, naturally. I should think that's apparent. Libsyn.com, obviously. Users Pepso and PrinceAl have consistenly campaigned the otrsite.com spam, repeatedly reverting all deletions. As I pointed out above, this issue was raised and resolved in the Old Time Radio article discussion page, as it was pointed out that Jerry Haendiges and his otrsite.com list every single one of their extensive program logs on one page of his site, hence obviating the need to relist that page or it's individual logs in the other 200+ radio program articles throughout Wikipedia.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Just because YOU linkspammed doesn't mean every other editor has. Sure, some have, and those are usually removed rather quickly. So far, YOU are the only one removing links to the free radio show sites. Only you. Oh, and a quick google groups search for your site shows a lot of spamming for digitaliftp.com - and a lot of flames as a response. PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I've never intentionally link spammed in my entire experience with Wikipedia. Indeed, the most links I've added to Wikipedia in well over a year have been 12 in various articles, including the four linking to The Digital Deli Online (and I acceded to the removal of 3 of those when it was pointed out that they could be construed as link spam). Blatantly lying about another editor's actions aren't the least bit helpful to this discussion. If you have proof of any links to the digitaldeliftp.com domain exceeding 12, now's the time to put up or shut up, not that that's ever stopped you.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
As to your Google Groups libel, it is what it is. Pure unadulterated, fabricated lies out of whole cloth. I erected one Google Group of my own two years ago, as an adjunct to my site. I participate in no other Google Groups whatsoever. I've never contributed to any other Google Groups, nor have I engaged in any dialogues whatsoever with any other Google Groups--ever. I'm the moderator for the one Google Group I erected myself.76.170.239.56 04:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • How do they fail WP:EL?
They fail WP:EL on either/both self-promotion or commercial link-farming. This has been explained to me ad nauseum by both other editors and intervening moderators. As it was explained to me, Wikipedia isn't a link farm for sites with multiple pages of varying source material with a common theme. If at all, one--and only one--such link might be supportable through consensus on an article's discussion page, but simply scatter-gunning tens if not hundreds of such links throughout any and all candidate Wikipedia articles is link spamming, pure and simple. Going further, a growing number of these 'links' are simply pointers to "Listen To" episodes of representative radio programs entirely unvetted by Wikipedia, and absent any verifiable copyright resolution, proof of mp3's free of contamination with embedded tracking, or other malicious code, and entirely outside the bounds of Wikipedia's legal capacity to vouch for the material, even though sourced from Wikipedia's own article links.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Do you have any examples of these virus-laden, spyware weapons of mass destruction mp3 files? Of course not. So what you are saying is "Those free shows *might* be dangerous (sure, I have no proof... but they *might*! So stay away from the free sites and send your money to me, Dennis Nyhagen, DigitalDeliFTP.com!" PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
It's not my duty to subject myself to questionable source material. I'm not Wikipedia, patently endorsing those 400+ links and that source material. As usual you have the process completely reversed. If Wikipedia endorses a link to questionable, untested, unverifiable, copyright indeterminate source files, then the onus falls on Wikipedia and no one else. And believe me, I do stay away from the free sites. They have nothing of any value whatsoever to either recommend them, or to offer me.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Have there been any copyright complaints?
The only copyright 'complaints' I've been aware of have been by other editors questioning the means by which Wikipedia can vouch for the copyright status of radio episodes it de facto 'endorses' through its links to unvetted material.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Like the rest of the Wikipedia, it is the job of other editors to check and double check stuff such as copyright status. Most likely those shows you find on the free sites can also be found on your site. PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Again, predictably you have the process completely upside down and inside out. I don't pay Wikipedia's liability insurance payments, nor am I a named party to their liability policies. Wikipedia can't be placed in the position of recklessly exposing itself to either liability claims or copyright claims. As has been recommended now serveral times in several other forums, and with consensus, the proper prodedure would be for Wikipedia to serve the sample episodes and material itself, just as it does with other source material uploaded to it's servers. At the same time, it would be expected that an audit trail of due diligence would have to accompany such uploaded files, to satisfy Wikipedia as to the copyright status of such examples.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • What's the ad to content ratio?
I haven't done a specific, page for page analysis of all 400+ resulting links. Libsyn.com is a patently commercial site, with commercial advertisements or solicitations on every page, as is otrsite.com, with it's offers of CD compilations of each logged radio program. freeotrshows.com has Google Ads and AdSense ads on every page. If the task of this evaluation is to perform an exhaustive ad count to source material ratio of every one of this violations, I'll have to opt out of this discussion. I'm neither prepared to perform such an analysis, nor inclined to beat a dead horse with more whips.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
As to ad to content ratio of my own site, which 'PrinceAl' continues to libel in the most egregious and outlandish fashion, I'll leave it to you--or anyone--to do the math. Full disclosure: I solicit voluntary donations for my website's continued support via its affiliated ftp site on one--repeat one--page of the 1229 pages Google crawls from my website. There are no Google Ads, AdSense ads, solicitations or commercial pitches for my website on any of the other 1228 pages available to the public on a daily basis. That's a page ratio of 1228:1. I would hope that any sane, rational, dispassionate, independent third party would conclude that one page out of 1229 is an acceptably non-commerical ratio. I suppose that one page does damn my site forever--by some--to be relegated to commercial status. Of course, eliminating that one page might serve to obviate the means by which I request donations to support the other 1228 pages of valuable Golden Age Radio preservation articles, material, sources, and content. But if such disclosure is germane, then there it is. I leave it to anyone visiting the other 1228 pages of my website to point out even one other even remotely commercial, or solicitous aspect of the entire website--as pertains to Golden Age Radio downloads of any kind. Indeed, quite to the contrary, I provide links to virtually all of the quality websites I've found on the internet, as a service to the Golden Age Radio Preservation community at large. I receive no compensation whatsoever, either financially or in kind, in return. Nor have I ever even once solicited a link to my own site from any of the 700+ sites I recommend or review from the 1229 pages of my own site.76.170.239.56 05:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
You aren't inclined to beat a dead horse? You keep saying you give up (after you find you have no supporters) and yet you come back about a month later. Are you feeling a finance crunch and decided to have another go at your "competitors" who offer for free what you want to be paid for? PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
That's precisely why I came here for resolution. It's not a question of obtaining support in an area of Wikipedia saturated with self-promoting, self-serving spammers. This issue requires several other eyes and contributions before it can be resolved. Any financial 'crunch' I feel has nothing whatsoever to do with the donations my 1300 pages generate toward the upkeep of my sites. That's all I've ever sought, and as is apparent from the stark absence of even so much as one single Google or AdSense ad on any of my pages, that my motives are precisely what I've set down. Making enough--and no more--to fund the website and ftp site bandwidth and equipment maintenance. Nothing more, nothing less. And no, to be even more specific, the naked spamming you engage in for all the sales promoting webites you spam to have no effect whatsoever on the 500+ subscribers to my ftp site. The revenue has dipped from it's $380 monthly gross average only once in 6 years--when I had to take it down for 10 days. Again, suggesting libel and slander here is not the least bit helpful.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • How useful is the content?
The content varies widely in quality, simply judging by what I've seen from the mp3 samples. I'm not fool enough to download questionable mp3's without having fully vetted the source, and with the exception of otrsite.com, no verifiable contact information is provided. Nor am I prepared to pay otrsite.com what they ask for in CD prices for representative examples of their audio content. As to the value of otrsite.com's radio logs, in that regard, the quality varies wildly, as is known throughout the serious radio collecting community. They're an invaluable general source, but rife with spelling errors, inaccurate dates, casts, and other details. Full disclosure: as a novice radio collector several years ago, I initially accessed otrsite.com myself hundreds of times, until it became obvious how inaccurate many of those logs truly were. I value Jerry Haendiges contributions to Golden Age Radio very highly, and say as much on the dedication page of my own site, but as often as not, the more you research Golden Age Radio programs, the less you tend to rely on otrsite.com logs as a reliable reference. That doesn't mean they're not valuable to some, it just means they're highly prone to inaccuracy due to the sheer volume of them alone. But also, in defense of Jerry Haendiges personally, it's obvious he's not the one personally engaging in the spamming. I feel confident in stating that if he knew this was being done in his name he'd be mortified.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and your content varies widely as well, especially since you have copied most of your shows off other OTR sites. And from what I have read about you in OTR forums, it seems you are pretty much the only OTR website owner who seems to have picked a fight with everyone. PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Again with the naked libel and slander. But since it can't go unchallenged, I'll refute it--once. I've paid for every single Golden Age Radio episode in my collection, either by trade, transferring them myself from original source material, purchasing tapes or transcription discs or downloading them from other FTP-type pay as you go sites that I have a personal relationship with. As to the second libelous comment, no, I'm not the only website owner or Golden Age Radio preservationist who's chimed in. I'm just the only one who's been persistent enough to note the disservice to Wikipedia and the abuses of it's policies and persistent enough to stand up to all the slander and libel anyone who rocks the sleazy little OTR boat within the seas of Wikipedia ends up putting up with. You seem so happy to keep posting my full name in every forum you stalk me in, why not put up my telephone number and address as well, perhaps you'll generate more hate comments, libel, intimidation, and threats that way. Perhaps you can even get someone to slash my tires. Isn't fear and intimidation what usually works best for you folks?.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • How relevant are the links to the linked articles?
Again, given that the quality varies widely, and since I have yet to physically download material from an unvetted, unverifiable site, I can't say how relevant they are. The names are the same. But from the size, alone, it's clear they're mostly sub-par encodings of the radio programs they purport to provide examples of.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
With OTR shows, the bitrate can be misleading. Even if you use the highest bitrate, your sound quality can not be better than that you have copied it from. Besides, even if the quality wasn't the best available, it is still available immediately and for free. With your commercial OTR site I would first have to send you some money. Spot the difference? PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
That's nonsense. All you have to do is put them through a reputable sound analysis and editing program to see where the integrity of the original recording has been degraded and downsampled repeatedly--or even better, compare it to its original, first generation source wav's. And no, again with the misprepresentations, slander and lies: no one has to pay me one red cent to download anything from my sites. I've offered in excess of one full gigabyte of both static and rotating free high encode, high quality downloads from my site for at least 3 years before anyone else was offering the same kind of downloading or sampling opportunities. Again, the facts seem to be something the nakedly self-serving spammers seem to need to distort, dispense with altogether, or simply invent from whole cloth to further their arguments here. There's such a thing as The WayBack Machine to verify--or disprove--such claims. I'm not here to defend a site that's not--repeat not--spamming on Wikiepedia. All you keep doing it making more and more personal attacks and libelous comments in a pathetic attempt to defend your link spamming activities. That's not gonna fly here.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • "kicking this problem up the Wikipedia hierarchy" -- not a lot of hierarchy around Wikipedia. Mostly a couple of staffers with a P.O. Box in Florida.
No comment. I've been given to believe on several occasions that there are a class of 'super-editors' within Wikipedia, with the power to override other editors or their abuses, refactor other editor's pages, or other higher level Wikipedia activities, etc. I simply asked the question out of simple ignorance of the inner workings of the Wikipedia hierarchy.76.170.239.56 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
There are a few that can speed things up, however since your motive here is the total opposite of what Wikipedia stands for, most will not help you since your intentions here are obvious. PrinceAl 12:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Any 'intentions' here are patently obvious from your continued hyperbolic, malicious libel. Indeed, questioning motives of other editors is precisely the antithesis of what Wikipedia espouses in its policies and practices.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
--A. B. (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your comprehensive answers. I wanted to better understand the situation before I walked into a buzzsaw.
There are "admins" who can block people and perform certain other tasks. (See Wikipedia:Administrators). Mostly, there are just a bunch of us volunteers like myself.
Presently I'm involved in some other big battles (see some other sections of this page). Some spammers push back very hard when they see their income threatened and that can involve making a lot of accusations against the volunteers that identify and clean up their links. Once that happens, I'm then stuck justifying my actions. I'll take a look at this when the dust settles on these other situations. Hopefully someone else can get to it before then. --A. B. (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll thank you to not waste anymore of my time with your insincere inquiries, since it's patently obvious you have no intention whatsoever in offering any help with this issue. Just refactor the whole thing and pretend the issue doesn't exist. That seems to be the pattern with such issues here anyway. But please, at least have the grace to not waste another editor's time with insincere requests for information.76.170.239.56 09:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Please note that the above anon user, 76.170.239.56, is an owner of a commercial OTR website (www.digitaldeliftp.com) who charges access to radio shows on his website. The sites he is removing are sites which offer people access to radio shows FOR FREE. Because the content is free, easily accessable and very relevent for the pages in question, they qualify for inclusion. What the above user is doing is simply trying to remove all links giving free access to the same type of OTR shows he CHARGES for. He is editing here in bad faith. The only things he is removing here are things given for FREE which he CHARGES for - nothing else. His motive for the removals appears to be based totally on greed. If you see his Discussion page you will see that the majority of people disapprove of his selfish actions. Because he is the owner of a commercial OTR site and has an agenda to remove all links to free OTR sites on Wikipedia, he hasn't managed to rally much support on his side. He simply wants all links to free OTR content removed, by hook or crook. Oh, and he also removed links to free OTR shows on archive.org!! He has added no content to Wikipedia, he has simply removed links that he feels hurts his commercial OTR interests.
Also note that not only does PrinceAl not disclose a single thing about his or her specifics or relationships with the sites he or she spams for--or sources of web related revenue, but even more significantly there's not one word of truth to anything PrinceAl has alleged in the paragraph immediately above. A visit to any 20 pages of my own website will prove the libel of his or her statements.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
As to the absurd archive.org assertion, PrinceAl fails to disclose that the archive.org pages linked to, were from a Yahoo Group named OTRR who uses archive.org the same way he and other spammers use Wikipedia; as a self-promoting, advertising vehicle to generate more interest in their own self-promoting agenda, or even worse, simply to generate page hits for conveniently placed AdSense or Google Ads. As is typical of the 'push back' cited by A. B., these people will resort to attaching themselves to any otherwise well-meaning vehicle to promote their selfish agenda, no matter how deceptive or inappropriate such practices are. They've learned that most people will simply overlook their abuses, to avoid a confrontation, or risk retaliation of the most vile, reprehensible kind.76.170.239.56 06:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, his claims that the OTR offered for free is embedded with "contamination with embedded tracking, or other malicious code" is also total unproven nonsense. If there was proof of it, he would certainly be screaming about it here in order to get those links taken down. His attitude is the total opposite of what Wikipedia is praised for - Free access to information. PrinceAl 12:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Again this known, demonstrated link spam campaigner misses the entire point. Whether or not the linked content does or doesn't contain malicious embedded code is moot. That's the whole point of this particular aspect of the objection. As I've stated, and recapitulated several times before and in other forums: If Wikipedia's simply a huge link farm for any and all owners of pertinent content, I've had well over 90 episodes on my own site, statically in place for well over 5 years now, available for any and all to sample Golden Age Radio from. Indeed, I've delivered in excess of two terabytes of such free material in the past six years. If in fact I were to stoop to the level of these naked link spammers, I'd have attached those static links to all 90 appropriate Wikipedia articles. When, upon submitting just 4 that I felt were fitting and appropriate, I was descended upon by the 8 - 10 active link spammers within the radio area of Wikipedia, I asked for and received the quidance I needed to refrain from other further link abuse of my own once my misinterpretation of the guidlines was pointed out to me by a senior editor entirely unaffiliated with radio collecting. It was that simple. Apparently this is an area very sensitive to the hardened link spammers in the radio interest areas of Wikipedia. That's what detracts from Wikipedia, not honestly adhering to it's guidelines. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the vehemence with which PrinceAl and his cohorts attack anyone who attempts to rock their sweet little, revenue-generating, page-hit-generating bonanza called Wikipedia.76.170.239.56 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Another conflict of interest case.

I have been going back and forth between another company who is up-front about wanting to expand their article with factual information. To me the conflict of interest guideline is clear: one should not edit articles related to their organization, but should feel free to make suggestions on the talk page. The Arbitration Committee consistently rules against those who ignore this guideline (they tend to get long blocks or bans in conflict situations). Can these conflict of interest edits be continually reverted as we do spam and vandalism? If so, what incentive does an employee have to be transparent about who they represent and make suggestion only on the talk page, supply useful images, etc? Is it preferable to allow some known COI editing over the usual sneaky stuff we deal with every day?

My current case deals with Extreme Networks, their corporate IP 207.179.9.4 (talk · contribs) (sometimes used by Jennifer) and another employee Edchao (talk · contribs). Our interactions have always been professional, respectful and courteous. What follows is copy our discussion from my talk page plus my latest response. I will encourage them to follow up here also. Any suggestions would be helpful, particularly about my conclusion below that their recent addition with many product links needs to be reverted again. ✤ JonHarder talk 03:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Extreme Networks

Hi, I just noticed that someone had deleted the entries that I made yesterday regarding information about Extreme Networks. Is there some rules that I violated? Please let me know so I came make the proper edits to comply.

Thanks, Ed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edchao (talk • contribs) 19:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Please read all of WP:COI carefully. Also read the two essays listed at the bottom. I suggest you provide your relationship to Extreme Networks on your user page. I will again revert your edits and await your affiliation disclosure. JonHarder talk 00:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
This is in regards to the note left by Ed Chao for Extreme Networks. Ed Chao is an employee of Extreme Networks and is the webmaster there. He was posting the information that I provided to him. My name is Jennifer Moffat. I am also an employee of Extreme Networks. Our previous Wikipedia site had information that read like an advertisement and we wanted to include information that was more clinical and informational rather than positive or negative regarding the company. Can you let me know what rules we've violated in posting our information on the wikipedia site? We would like to make changes to comply with wikipedia standards.
Thanks,
Jennifer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.179.9.4 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
You should start by reading the conflict of interest guideline which states you should "avoid editing articles related to your organization or its competitors." Also read the two "Further reading" suggestions at the bottom of that page. What you can do is suggest changes by providing the appropriate material on the talk page of that article, Talk:Extreme Networks, asking other neutral editors to consider including it in the article. You should included references for the material. The article also needs references from third party sources (other than reposting Extreme Networks press releases) to help establish notability of the company. Currently the only third party reference is its NASDAQ listing; without that the article would likely have been deleted some time ago! You might also want to look at WP:CORP which outlines requirements for articles on companies and corporations. I hope this helps. JonHarder talk 04:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Jon- How would you suggest that I update the site with the very basic information about our products, leadership team, etc.? I don't believe it is a conflict of interest as I am posting factual information about Extreme Networks, not trying to sway the public in anyway. It is the whole reason we changed the site from what it was (an advertisement). How does Cisco and Juniper update their sites? Don't they have employees updating them with new information as the company changes or evolves? Is that a conflict of interest? I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't delete the information I've posted and we can further discuss how I can change it to better fit the needs of Wikipedia. Thank you. -Jennifer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.179.9.4 (talk • contribs) 17:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
The conflict of interest guideline says that in cases like this, you should make suggestions on the talk (discussion) page for the consideration of other neutral editors who will decide if and how to incorporate the material. Besides textual information, consider releasing images under a free license. Another useful thing you can so is to provide editors with secondary sources of information (third party sources independent of Extreme Networks). For verifiability, Wikipedia prefers this type of reliable source. Cisco and Juniper do not update their own sites; other neutral editors do that. Unfortunately your recent changes will need to be removed again. The multiple links to specific products are universally frowned upon in Wikipedia, particularly when added by the site owner. You should confine your future edits only to the talk page. ✤ JonHarder talk 03:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Concur 100% re: COI issues and your comments, Jon. Also, if you or the Extreme Networks people need some help with editing, you could post a note at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer networking and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Telecommunications asking for assistance. I often turn to different WikiProjects asking for help; some help, some are pretty dead. --A. B. (talk) 03:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately the best solution in a case like this is the hardest one. Ask them for secondary sources and volunteer to write the article. No one knows better then the company about what articles have been printed about them (you should see the main hallway at the company I work at). :) Hopefully they will be willing to provide both positive and negative articles to help build a balanced article. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 03:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Did an ecyclopedic cleanup for now. Per WP:NOT, we are not a directory of employee's or products and services. I'd also suggest Jennifer or whoever from Extreme Networks read Advertising and conflicts of interest before making any additional edits.--Hu12 05:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Well looks like 207.179.9.4 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log) has little regard for policies [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Extreme_Networks&diff=prev&oldid=99624701].--Hu12 09:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yoga

Please take a look at the links in this article: several of them are commercial, but Marceo keeps restoring them to the article when I remove them, saying they address shortcomings in the article. Thanks. A Ramachandran 05:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

JumpTV

seems JumpTV has turned into a directory/ channel list. Not sure if somone wants to have a look.--Hu12 05:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

much the same with Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ. --Hu12 06:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Its hard to get motivated to improve articles which IMHO should be deleted but there are a flock of single issue editors around them so getting AfD through would be hard. I am staying clear. --BozMo talk 10:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I actually managed to get a Talk page consensus to remove almost all of the "List" external links in Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ. We'll see if it holds. -- Satori Son 18:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The JumpTV article has turned into a link repository that also contains an excess of advertising language. Concerns have already been raised on the talk page, where I have commented as well, so I have removed the entire "Channel list" section. -- Satori Son 20:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

This morning's reading

Seen while catching up on my reading last night:[forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=210074&highlight=Wikipedia]

NICO Club links

There are numerous links to web sites affiliated with this organization and its webmaster.[forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=50538] [forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=2041351&postcount=16]

"NICOclub's Nissan forums and Infiniti forums and all affiliated sites are the property of HDS Holdings, LLC. They are independent publications and are not affiliated with or endorsed by Nissan Motor Company or Nissan North America."

Domains involved (probably not a complete list):

  • 240sx.org ←still have links to remove Nposs 05:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.240sx.org list] of articles with this link
  • 240sxconvertible.com Nposs 05:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.240sxconvertible.com list] of articles with this link
  • 240sxtech.com ←still have links to remove Nposs 05:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.240sxtech.com list] of articles with this link
  • 350zclub.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.350zclub.org list] of articles with this link
  • altimacoupe.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.altimacoupe.com list] of articles with this link
  • g35club.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.g35club.org list] of articles with this link
  • gtrclub.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.gtrclub.org list] of articles with this link
  • HybridAltima.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.HybridAltima.com list] of articles with this link
  • infiniticx.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.infiniticx.com list] of articles with this link
  • infinitionlinemechanic.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.infinitionlinemechanic.com list] of articles with this link
  • J30club.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.J30club.com list] of articles with this link
  • M30club.com domain appears to have expired
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.M30club.com list] of articles with this link
  • Muranoclub.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.Muranoclub.com list] of articles with this link
  • m35forum.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.m35forum.com list] of articles with this link
  • m45forum.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.m45forum.com list] of articles with this link
  • maximaclub.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.maximaclub.org list] of articles with this link
  • nicoclub.com !still have links to remove one link to NICO Club (allowed per WP:EL)
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nicoclub.com list] of articles with this link
  • nissancommercials.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nissancommercials.com list] of articles with this link
  • nissanforia.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nissanforia.com list] of articles with this link
  • nissanonlinemechanic.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nissanonlinemechanic.com list] of articles with this link
  • nissantech.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nissantech.com list] of articles with this link
  • nissanterranaut.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nissanterranaut.com list] of articles with this link
  • nissanversa.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.nissanversa.org list] of articles with this link
  • Q45.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.Q45.org list] of articles with this link
  • QX56club.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.QX56club.org list] of articles with this link
  • RB26DETT.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.RB26DETT.com list] of articles with this link
  • VQ35DE.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.VQ35DE.com list] of articles with this link
  • vh45de.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.vh45de.com list] of articles with this link
  • vq35hr.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.vq35hr.com list] of articles with this link
  • Z32club.org
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.Z32club.org list] of articles with this link

Affiliate sites not linked:

  • azhitman.com/
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.azhitman.com list] of articles with this link
  • homephotog.com
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.homephotog.com list] of articles with this link

Editors adding these links (probably not a complete list)

I doubt I'll have time to clean these up and warn people. Can I leave this to the next shift? Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 00:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Good eye. This is a an [forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=184602 interesting read]. Nposs 01:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Many articles had other spam; I tagged them with cleanup-spam tags:
As you get time, can someone go back, clean these up and warn any offenders? Also there are still a few links in other articles that need to be removed.
Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 03:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Spamming since the above warnings:
Since IP addresses on DSL equipment may change when the power cycles, I've given this guy the benefit of the doubt this once, blacklist-wise, assuming his DSL modem may have reset since his last edit 13 December 2006. If he adds another link, I'll ask for blacklisting.
Another user, 24.10.242.184 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log), has reverted all the spam links to an article, but I'm not sure he's the NICO Club spammer.
Since we may be forced to blacklist these NICO Club domains if more of this happens, we should think about what to do with the NICO Club article. If we're going to have such an article, it should have a link to nicoclub.com. Can we whitelist just one article?
NICO Club has competitors that have spammed the same articles; we should be cleaning up links to them as well.
Finally, if you're cleaning up any Nissan article, I suggest leaving a dmoz.org link to:
  • dmoz.org/Recreation/Autos/Makes_and_Models/Nissan/
I find it helps to say, "Get in dmoz.org, then link the dmoz page to this article." Dmoz is officially endorsed by WP:EL as an alternative to link farms on Wikipedia.
--A. B. (talk) 16:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
We gave them one more chance and they blew it this morning.[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nissan_200SX&diff=prev&oldid=101807975] [meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Spam_blacklist&diff=515090&oldid=514985 Blacklisting requested] except for NICOClub.com -- we still need to figure out what to do with that article, NICO Club. --A. B. (talk) 17:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

negrosislandonline.blogspot.com

Site:

  • negrosislandonline.blogspot.com/ Nposs 06:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.negrosislandonline.blogspot.com list] of articles with this link

Accounts[forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=2043158&postcount=24] [forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=46310] adding these links:

--A. B. (talk) 00:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

royalessence.com and .medi-vet.com

From my morning reading (registration required/discretion advised)[www.syndk8.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7543] [www.syndk8.net/forum/index.php/topic,3970.msg82076.html#msg82076]

Sites linked:

  • www royalessence.com California (blacklisted)[meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spam_blacklist&curid=13107&diff=510676&oldid=510447]
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • www medi-vet.com Covington, LA (blacklisted)[meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spam_blacklist&curid=13107&diff=510676&oldid=510447]
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • www.anns-antiques.com Folsom, LA
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • stores.ebay.com/anns-antiques Folsom, LA
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • pet.meds.medications.rx.health.googlepages.com Covington, LA
    • Current list of articles with this link

Accounts involved:

--A. B. (talk) 02:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll stop spamming, since I've been busted.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Family Guy Guy (talk • contribs) 21:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok, thanks.
--A. B. (talk) 00:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The White Rose (oil field) spam was pretty original.
Thanks. That article was my undoing, I should of never tried to remove the session id while logged in, heh ;] It's amazing how high you can rank in google by spamming [spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pL7_j5QbTw-4XU0O7Wi94Qg "by hand"]. Now can someone tell me why I can't put a URL in my own freaking profile? Family Guy Guy 07:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

miscellaneous

  • SEOServices[forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=114][forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=2033354&postcount=4]
    • Accounts:
    • Links
      • www.gii.in
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.gii.in list] of articles with this link
      • www.downloadheart.us/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.downloadheart.us list] of articles with this link 0
      • www.amishaworld.com
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.amishaworld.com list] of articles with this link
      • www.seomeeting.com
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.seomeeting.com list] of articles with this link

--A. B. (talk) 05:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

All cleaned up and warned now. --A. B. (talk) 15:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Dog Training Information[forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=2042685&postcount=23][forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=4004]

--A. B. (talk) 05:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Got a few this way as well... way to go--Hu12 06:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
All cleaned up and warned now. --A. B. (talk) 15:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • e-infanta.com:[forums.digitalpoint.com/member.php?u=44546][forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=2048139&postcount=28]
    • Account:
    • Domains spammed:
      • e-infanta.blogspot.com/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.e-infanta.blogspot.com list] of articles with this link
    • Other domains owned:
      • articlegear.com/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.articlegear.com list] of articles with this link
      • www.articlewheel.com/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.articlewheel.com list] of articles with this link
      • ezineprime.hubprime.com/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.hubprime.com list] of articles with this link
      • myspace-layouts.linkchannels.com/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.linkchannels.com list] of articles with this link
      • www.beezymouse.com/
        • Current [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.beezymouse.com list] of articles with this link

--A. B. (talk) 06:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

All cleaned up and warned now. --A. B. (talk) 15:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Teaching English as a second language -- spambait articles

Today's meltdown [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=prev&oldid=99734005],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99734055&oldid=99734005],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99734106&oldid=99734055],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99734291&oldid=99734106],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99735732&oldid=99734291],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99735953&oldid=99735732],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99736054&oldid=99735953],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99737064&oldid=99736054],[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.201.181.10&diff=99737100&oldid=99737064] of a spammer who finally read his warnings:

... leads to an observation that we have a number of articles dealing with this topic. Some are redundant, some are well-maintained and some are spam-bait. I don't have time to go over this stuff, but I did compile a list of articles:

The British certification articles seem to be better policed and more encyclopedic.

If you get the chance, please put these on your watchlists and consider cleaning them up (both spam and POV). --A. B. (talk) 14:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC) (Status updated --A. B. (talk) 18:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC))


I wonder if there's this much spam on the foreign language versions of these pages? I would not be surprised and I suspect it might involve some of the same players. If so, that should accelerate any decision to blacklist since folks spamming across projects are very hard to deal with otherwise.

Opinions needed

User:208.100.136.104 spammed several articles with a link to the quasi-governmental (?) Central Oregon Visitors Association. A while back someone spammed every city in Lane County, Oregon with a similar link to that county's visitors bureau and I removed them all except the one in the actual county article. For some reason I'm having trouble deciding if I should nuke this Central Oregon link as well. I think I'm much too relaxed after taking a nice long wikibreak, so if someone else could take a look I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Katr67 21:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion -- politely delete the links. Tell him he's been a naughty boy. Tell him if he wants to add those links in the future, he must take them to the talk page for each article and request someone else add the link since he has a WP:COI problems. If the other editors like them, they'll add them. On the other hand, if he forges ahead against your request, use warnings, blacklists, etc. --A. B. (talk) 22:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks like all the [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.visitcentraloregon.com links] have all been deleted for now. A. B. is right: it is always best to revert mass link apamming of numerous articles by an anon SPA. -- Satori Son 03:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks everyone. I guess I got tired of being the heavy--it's good to get some backup in case the spammer argues. As wonderful as our fine state is, I really wish the spammers would stop trying to get people to come here--this kind of thing happens far too often. Katr67 03:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Complex spam?

Would this and this bu User:Jrnetwork count as some sort of this an elaborate spam attempt? --Peta 07:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

At present neither article explains why the books are notable and there are far to many links to website pages doing nothing more than mention the book. So it is no good. However, the starting point is always to assume good faith. I would start by tagging for cleanup and notability. --BozMo talk 09:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Have a look at Jrnetwork contributions, he states outright in the image edit summaries hes the webmaster for hazeledwards.com and goldiealexander.com. which this is a clear case of Advertising and conflicts of interest --Hu12 10:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Good point, I missed that. But we still assume good faith, and warn him I guess... --BozMo talk 10:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Agree, we always Assume good faith first.--Hu12 10:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I've tidied up Goldie Alexander, ta/wangi 11:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Response to spammer

Hi, I've had this request from the owner of these sites. I'm not sure how I ought to respond. I'm loath to take away the resource I have for ensuring these links do not get spammed again. But I also don't want to cause difficulties for a site that has mended it's ways - or cause unnecessary drama by being obstinate when there's an easy way to deal with it. Has anyone addressed this before? -- Siobhan Hansa 19:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought Wiki software automatically put nofollow on links that were outside the main article space. Apparently not.
I don't know. I really doubt he's reformed. I'd leave them. —Wrathchild (talk) 20:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe it should be kept whithout question. Recently was able to add to User:A._B./pressreleasegold.com when the reemergance of a dormant spammer started to spam again. also re-caught a few snuck in when no one was looking. got a positive ID because of the adsense acct #. He's a webmaster searching his own links, seeing who links to him, thats how he found it. No one else could possibly find your page unless there interested specificaly in this webmasters SEO strategy and websie link back urls. I use these pages as references, as I'm sure many here do. He made the bed, he needs to sleep in it.--Hu12 20:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
If you are concerned about it you might create a sub-section on the page for "dormant and reformed spammers" or something just so his concern about defamation is addressed --BozMo talk 20:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks folks. I think I'll move the page to one that doesn't mention spam and take out any actual reference to spam. But I'll leave everything else as is.
Wrathchild - nofollow isn't the same as not beign indexed. the nofollow marker just stops wikipedia passing on it's highly trusted status to the links its pointing to, but it doesn't stop Wikipedia pages from being indexed and turning up in searches. -- Siobhan Hansa 20:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Ah, yes, of course. Not thinking clearly this P.M. —Wrathchild (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


(ec x2)I think his request is fair... it can impact his company's public image... however, he created the problem on his own. Perhapse a comprimise would be to comment out the section so it dosn't show up on search-engin results while still being there for research? (this is assumeing his promis was legit) ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
A very fair compromise, Siobhan Hansa.--Hu12 21:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
First of all, what does Wikipedia owe this guy? Truth. That's all. The truth here is that he added numerous links over many months -- but was only warned twice. He should have stopped after the first warning, but he did not. On the other hand, he did stop after a second warning.
Second, what do we want to give to this guy? I think as a courtesy, it's appropriate to re-label the links or do something so that he's not lumped into the same boat as some of the really hard core types we deal with. My own long-term goal is to turn my rats' nest of user subpages into several subpages separately listing spammers and spam-links in increasing severity. One page might be "User:A. B./External link concerns" and another might be "User:A. B./External link concerns - really, really bad spam". So you might consider putting this guy on a different subpage that explains his history and lets others decide for themselves. Also, given that he stopped after the second request, I'd personally go easy on the word "spam". Yes, it was spam, but let's not rub it in.
Mostly, the wide extent of his links testifies more to poor article-watching by Wikipedians than anything else. Heck, nobody even welcomed this guy. If he'd had any more warnings or shown some sign of already being wise to our rules (such as shifting to a new account name), then I'd say let him live with the cosnequences.
So, my bottom line: we have no obligation to do anything here -- but on the other hand this is a case where courtesy would be nice and inexpensive. --A. B. (talk) 22:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Can't agree more. We don't owe him anything, but building good-will is a good thing. (wow I'm redundent....) Wikipedia's public image does need to be one of the things we think about when dealing with people who arn't wikieditors. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 22:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

French warning

On a hunch (as A. B. has been suggesting) I checked on a minor spammer and found him to be a bigger problem on the French version. However, what interested me more was a sentence in the French warning template that rings true and perhaps we should open for discussion for inclusion in our templates and applicable guidelines. It says something like:

... adding external links and references to articles to which you have not contributed is considered (inappropriate/unhelpful/rude).
(... il est indélicat d'ajouter un lien ou une référence à un article auquel on n'a pas contribué.)

Francophones will have to correct me and suggest the best word to use at the end of the sentence. I like the idea of steering people away from adding only links to articles. Most of the time it is a sure tip-off of a spammer. We may as well just come out and say what we are thinking. Thoughts? ✤ JonHarder talk 23:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I am not Francophone but I worked in a Francophone country for three years and my vote is "inappropriate". I think it is a good idea. --BozMo talk 09:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Good idea. "Unhelpful" for the first warnings, "inappropriate" for the second warnings, "rude" for the third .. and you can probably think of some good ones for the 4th. --A. B. (talk) 10:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, suppose we add these sentences to the respective templates:

  • {{spam1}} – Adding external links and references to articles to which you have not contributed is considered unhelpful.
  • {{spam2}} – Adding external links and references to articles to which you have not contributed is considered inappropriate.
  • {{spam3}} – Adding external links and references to articles to which you have not contributed is considered rude.
  • {{spam4}} – Adding external links and references to articles to which you have not contributed is considered rude.

I will propose it at Template talk:Spam and see what other responses there might be. ✤ JonHarder talk 02:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we need to be a little careful about using this with references. We do actually encourage editors to replace citation needed tags with references - we even have a wikiproject in which editors go into articles they don't normally edit and add in references. I know we know what we're looking for, but I'm not sure we should say this in a warning. (Sorry I should have brought this up before be it only just struck me what we were saying). -- Siobhan Hansa 02:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Nice principle, but conflicts a lot with our {{fact}} tags, and there are many occasions when a link on its own is a useful addition. An editor adding nothing but links to several articles is also not what we want, but again could be useful if they are references. An editor adding nothing but links to the same site is probably rude, but not necessarily so. -- zzuuzz (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I have added external links to articles in response to {{fact}} requests, but I think always to articles I have contributed to in other ways. I have seen inline references placed simply to promote a site; I've seen external link spam placed in reference sections to make it appear more legitimate (or because there was no existing external links section); I've seen regular books placed in the reference section by their author for promotional purposes; I've seen other entries added as references that were never used to actually create the article text. Reference abuse may not be as common as other external link problems and it is harder to spot unless an articles is on your watch list, but it happens often enough that I understand why the French version includes it in their warning.
I'm assuming part of the objection here is that some editors, instead of evaluating the merit of a particular edit will slap a warning on a productive user simply because their only edit to an article was to add an appropriate link. Maybe there is someway to head that kind of behavior off by explaining the use of the template; or just expecting that editors on patrol will almost always use their common sense.
I have a couple of concerns myself. First, I am not sure of using the word "rude". I consulted a thesaurus but couldn't find anything that worked better, other than "inappropriate". The other issue is whether warnings should reflect policies and guidelines, or if in this case they can lead the guidelines. Maybe it doesn't matter. If no one feels this discussion is worth pursuing, I'm willing to let it go for now, as I don't have a big stake in it. ✤ JonHarder talk 21:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I think my biggest concern about this message is that it is not true, no matter who it is applied to - "Adding external links and references to articles to which you have not contributed is considered wrong" - this is not the case. If an article is screaming out for an online reference - it is neither inappropriate nor rude to provide one, in fact this is sometimes exactly what we want people to do. It could be adapted to say that adding external links to a series of articles, without adding any content to any article, is frowned upon. This is more the reality on en.wikipedia. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

U.S._Route_66

the external links section of U.S._Route_66 needs cleaning. JoeSmack Talk 03:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

.in spam

adsense account pub-9291737033108347, heres the list (I'm sure there is more).

59.92.112.94 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.118.39 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.113.74 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.112.91 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.112.197 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.125.187 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.122.56 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.125.187 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.122.78 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.119.228 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.119.178 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.92.118.191 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)

--Hu12 07:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The above noted spammer is back as 59.92.114.211 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)Nposs 19:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Blocked on that IP for what its worth. --BozMo talk 20:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Not worth much apparently - back with avengeance: 59.92.119.127 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log) (articles clean at the moment). Is this blacklist worthy? Nposs 04:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

More .in spam for the record (pub-5012027703930414):

lakerabun.info
vadodara.net.in
rajkot.in
Ludhiana.net.in
lakethurmond.info
lakeallatoona.info
pune.in
tariquesani.net
nagpur.in
meerut.co.in
asansol.in
rajkot.in
dispur.in
Other domains involved:

coimbatore.net.in bareilly.in bhatpara.in bhiwandi.in bijapur.in faridabad.net.in indore.net.in jabalpur.net.in ludhiana.net.in mirabhayander.co.in Nanded.co.in patna.net.in pimpri.in saharanpur.co.in Thiruvananthapuram.co.in varanasi.net.in Visakhapatnam.net.in dengue.in rbi.in ioi.in inforum.in Nposs 18:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Amazon affiliate spam

  • .astore.amazon.com is for amazon affiliate shops. To my knowledge they serve no real purpose here , and I even tried without success to get the subdomain blacklisted. I had been keeping any eye on the backlinks, but have let it slip for a few weeks. There were none until recently, though some would occasionally try, and be removed. Now someone has spammed about 3500 links [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.astore.amazon.com]. They really need cleaning up, and I am a bit busy right now. (I have come across this spammer before, and we got an entire Russian IP subnet range block to stop it. Now he's back with a vengeance. -- zzuuzz (talk) 10:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The links all seem to be on the television stub templates not the articles and it should be easy to fix give me five minutes --BozMo talk 10:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Other possibly related sites (from before) are:
  • .odele.ru -- done: two templates
  • .chr.ru -- none
  • .atst.ru -- done: lots under template fullstops
  • .iapb.ru-- none
  • .novokat.ru-- none
  • .ohota.chb.com.ru-- none
  • .mogiz.com-- none
  • .avnads.com-- none
  • .rcm.amazon.com-- none
  • .kamaztorg.ru-- none

All the 3500 links have gone now anyway. Template spamming was done yesterday so well spotted. --BozMo talk 11:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Great catch, zzuuzz.
That was a slick trick -- a weapon of mass spamnation. It makes me wonder how many other "infected templates" we have -- and how we'd even know they had hidden links.
I've always tuned out debates over template deletions ("Who cares?"). I'm suddenly much more interested. Just as an unwatched article becomes a spammed article, I suppose the same is true of unwatched templates. For that matter, a spammed category page could be problematic, too. --A. B. (talk) 11:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
You might want to see Amazon Light which was linked on the main {{Amazon}} template until recently. I've been meaning to get around to getting the article deleted. -- zzuuzz (talk) 00:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Templates vandalism used to be popular a year or so ago (photo of some genitalia delivered to thousands of viewers whilst a lot of editors cannot see what is causing the problem) but I haven't see it for spam. I wonder if we could get all links in templates nofollowed easily just in case...--BozMo talk 11:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The daily featured article has been the target of some major template-vandalism recently. They added a feature to cause "cascading" protection. Should be in the next patch. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning that up. The previous event was [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive146#Amazon_affiliate_spam here]. I will try and get the Russian sites blacklisted at meta, and I suspect the spammer was using proxies to get around the range block - I will see if we can get them blocked. The backlinks to the astore.amazon.com domain need to be closely watched, and I say again, I don't think they have any place here.

I am not sure how to prevent this occurring again. What we need is a list of templates with external links. Another option is semi-protection for stub templates. -- zzuuzz (talk) 00:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll put a request in at the bot group for a list of all stubs with external links. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 22:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I think all templates which go on the main page not the talk page are suspect. Stubs are always more attractive though because they are backwater --BozMo talk 22:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah... the links on the talk pages arn't indexed by google for pagerank, so there is little modivation for spamming there. Oh, I put the bot-request in. Maybe we could have it run once a month or something? ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 22:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

cross-wiki spammer: xs4all.nl/~wichm and members.chello.nl/a.wichmann

Just seen at m:Talk:Spam blacklist#wichm sites -- spammer hitting across multiple language versions:

  • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.xs4all.nl%2F%7Ewichm List] of articles with xs4all.nl/~wichm links -- now 34 on the English Wikipedia
  • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.members.chello.nl/a.wichmann List] of articles with members.chello.nl/a.wichmann links -- now 4 on the English Wikipedia

Assuming he gets blacklisted, we still need to go back and delete those links or else folks will have trouble editing the various articles. I'm away for a while, so count me out. --A. B. (talk) 14:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I couldn't delete the Subud one because another link on the page is already BL blocking edits. How can I find which? --BozMo talk 14:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed the offending link (and the xs4all.nl/~wichm one, and added a tag - the page is pretty bad :-). When the page comes up telling you about the blacklist problem, listed near the bottom (in a poor use of plain text) is the link that is causing the problem. -- Siobhan Hansa 19:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks --BozMo talk 20:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Already got a protest because the link has genuine content on it. However the content seems to have been ripped off from www.caic.org.au/general/psymove.htm . --BozMo talk 14:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

However some of the content appears to be unique original and of some value: e.g. www.xs4(broken so I can save the page)all.nl/~wichm/myth.html . Hmm. Not an obvious blacklist one to me. --BozMo talk 15:01, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Same with the link on Javanese beliefs. I have restored it. I think we need to think this one through --BozMo talk 15:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
On [www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=6 this page] the same information can be found as on the 'psymove.html' page, maybe you can link to that page? - Robotje 15:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
That one I could find. But the other two I mentioned look unique to me. --BozMo talk 15:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's face it, he did violate the rules you have here too about linking your own pages (see Wikipedia:External_links#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest). On 4 projects he was spamming: Dutch, English, French and German Wikipedia. On the other hand, some of the links were already there. One option is, to have the pages blacklisted on Meta, but add them here on MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist (all of the pages, or keep the directory blocked, but allow some pages). - Robotje 16:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't deny an issue with the spammer but the primary concern it the well being of Wikipedia which is not served by removing good links. We have to use a sharper tool than the blacklist I think. --BozMo talk 16:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I have to disagree with you, BozMo. I'm not seeing anything compelling -- just some stuff that may be useful and may be interesting. The primary issue as I see it is the well-being of Wikipedia. Many sites are interesting and useful however and we don't link to them -- blogs, forums, etc. That's because WP:EL is driven most strongly by WP:OR and WP:V. The stuff I'm seeing is either scraped content -- a sure sign of something sleezy if not acknowledged -- or self-published". Furthermore, the user's behavior --adding dubious links in spite of requests and admonitions not to do so shows little regard for the project and an unwilingness to play by the consensus content rules -- again, an issue of encyclopedic integrity, not just behaviour.
If we turn up the remainder of Schubert's Unfinished Symphony or the definitive explantion for crop circles, then I'll be happy to eat my words, but for now I just don't think there are any pearls there worthy of tolerating all the problems. --A. B. (talk) 18:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, well I can understand where you are coming for and on the issue of expediency I would agree with you: blacklist and then whitelist exceptions if demanded. However I am still either a purist or not quite secure enough to feel this project has a mandate for that kind of decision. I'll wait for the complaining editor to reply. --BozMo talk 20:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Citation spam

Contributions consist soley of spamming articles with citations from these "related" sites.

Mergneed (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
Adsense pub-4706226669145133


--Hu12 14:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

User might be a spammer, but I see a number of good-faith edits. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Guess i'd give a little bit back too if i managed to get 6 of my sites in 18 articles. IMHO, this reaks of skilled SEO--Hu12 00:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

All sites are registered to Touch Group Plc

Advanced Web search optimisation techniques [www.touchgroupplc.com/dyncat.cfm?catid=537]

  • "Phil Geraghty is the Group Online Director for Touch Group Plc.'
touchnewcastle.com
touchlocal.com
touchoilandgas.com
touchlondon.co.uk
touchsouthand.com
touchbriefings.com
touchplaza.com

--Hu12 01:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Multiple sock fix

see Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Sselvakumar --BozMo talk 22:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Aliweb

The combination of Aliweb, Talk:Aliweb, and User:Aliweb (talk) (contribs) defy WP:OWN and WP:COI policies and fit Wikipedia:Spam#Advertisements masquerading as articles like a glove.

I'm uninvolved, merely taken a look at the situation once in awhile since mid-December. I'm too new a registrant (three months) to feel easy about slapping on the {{db-spam}}, and the attitude and persistent reversions of the self-appointed 'owner' lead me to expect he'll remove the tag a lot faster than he'll add a {{hangon}}. And, too, dropping it into CAT:SPEEDY & CAT:SPAM may simply delay a real WP:AFD. Please advise. Athænara ✉ 12:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a good candidate for posting on Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard. While the editors on this page are concerned about conflict of interest edits, the noticeboard specifically deals with the issue and you may be more likely to get a response there to issues that are isolated to one or a few articles. ✤ JonHarder talk 21:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I have begun looking into that as you suggested. —Æ. ✉ 23:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I posted it on Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard with the section heading "[[Aliweb]] {{coi-links|Aliweb}}" as is standard there. At least six anonymous IPs (employee(s) and/or owner(s) of a commercial website); diffs/contribs dissected. Athænara ✉ 13:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Search web links

"A wildcard may be used, at the start of the name only, for example "*.wikipedia.org". "

  • Any way this can be modified to use Wildcards any where in the hostname? such as "*.wiki*" --Hu12 18:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

AFAIK, no. --BozMo talk 14:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


Woodstock

Anyone remember this discussion (Not so much spam as promotion) ? Anyway its back with category pages see: Category:Woodstock Category:Woodstock (1969) Performers etc etc. --BozMo talk 14:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC) mainly User:Neanderthalprimadonna and user:PAK_Man. We now have a page per year see Woodstock '94 etc. Hmm... --BozMo talk 14:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Second opinion sought

I recently came across this editor, and wondered if his/her multiple insertions of the same link across articles would qualify as spam. The link itself is not commercial, AFAICT, but the articles linked to provide little extra info. Thoughts? IronDuke 16:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Your instincts are good. Links do not have to be to a sales site to be commercial, nor do links have to be commercial to be spam. This looks like a classic spammer and other editors and admins clearly think so too. It's also a very clear conflict of interest, and you could follow that road as well or instead of the spam road. As it is this seems to have been taken care of. -- Siobhan Hansa 21:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
looks like User:Rjensen has been reverting them back. I only mention this because of his/her dubious past [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=User%3ARjensen]--Hu12 21:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes a spamlink is also a good link. User:Rjensen has several 3RR blocks but no indication of spamming. He's also a regular contributor on all the articles he reverted on so I think it seems the decision is being made where it ought to be (i.e. by regular editors of the article). If the link is POV other editors of the article can debate it. -- Siobhan Hansa 22:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
User:Rjensen is pretty clearly "Richard Jensen, retired Professor of History, University of Illinois Chicago". His own websites tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/ are linked to by the miller centre but it is fairly clear he doesn't work there. BTW when identifying someone start with their oldest edits... this guy was pretty careless adding himself as a reference half a dozen times in the first three hundred edits...[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_%28United_States%29&diff=prev&oldid=17840496]--BozMo talk 22:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Truffle spam

IP addresses continue to add commercial linkspam to truffle articles, especially links to PlantationSystems.com in Tuber (genus). Truffles are a very high profit niche in both online sales and CPC advertising. Sinned 18:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Kh7 (talk · contribs) spamming their own site

User appears to have placed 83 links to her site. See [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.katinkahesselink.net]. The user is clearly Katrina Hesse. She states that the site is hers on her user page. A Ramachandran 22:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

From her website: "By profession she is a teacher of math and chemistry - at middle school-level, though she now makes a living doing webdesign and through the ads on this site (but please don't click ads repeatedly - that is considered click-fraud and will cost her money)." (Emphasis mine.) Some of the links might be worth keeping, but clearly the site is "over-linked." She clearly did add many of the links herself: Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Kh7.Nposs 02:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
And for people to go around reverting all her edits on *principle* is just a mean and nasty way of attacking people and hiding behind the *rules*. It's also unacceptable behaviour. Your {{spam}} posting to her talk page is an unpleasant way to welcome a new contributor. Perhaps you should look at your own behaviour before you cause this situation to escalate into another ArbCom which no one needs. Wjhonson 20:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Concur. She was not even warned once before.--Mallarme 22:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, to be fair, A Ramachandran placed a pretty mild warning on the user's talk page. Also, the warning did mention the fact in cases of COI, links should be discussed on the article talk page. Pretty nice behavior in my mind. Also, Kh7 is not a new contributor, but in fact a pretty consistent and reliable one who apparently needs to be reminded of some good guidelines. Nposs 20:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
She is not a new contributor, but she is very clearly an unexperienced one, judging from the low number of her contributions, and none of them in Wikipedia Community Space. --Mallarme 22:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Nposs. Ms. Hesse has been contributing to Wikipedia for almost four years. If she is not yet familiar with the WP:EL, WP:SPAM, and WP:COI guidelines, a polite but firm message on her talk page is certainly appropriate. And your message on her Talk page was not accurate: the template very clearly states the option to first suggest external links on the article's talk page, which she should do in the future. -- Satori Son 20:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
(I like to use {{welcomespam}} for first time contrib linkspam). JoeSmack Talk 20:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

So now there is a rv war going on between Wjhonson and some other editors. Wjhonson is suggesting that editors need to justify every link removal on the article talk page. This seems like a bad precedent. The burden should be on the person who has provided the link. Here are the problems: 1) The user added many of the links herself - WP:COI 2) The user has admitted that she makes a portion of her income from the advertising on her website. Actually, to me, this on its own wouldn't necessarily mean the links should be removed - especially since some of the links provide good additional content and enrich the article. The problem is 3) There are way too many links to her website. Sometimes two or more on a single article. That (to me) makes it linkspam. A selective reduction of these links and a conversation with the user about WP:COI is definitely appropriate. Nposs 20:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Certainly not all, or even most for that matter, were added by herself. I daresay that on some articles, they make defintiely an useful addition. --Mallarme 22:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Some of these edits are pretty naughty. Look at [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Theosophy_and_Buddhism&diff=74572785&oldid=58747877] where a (presumably public domain) article on someone else's site has been linked to and she moves the link to a copy on her own site claiming "link moved". The old link is still there of course. --BozMo talk 21:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Wjhonson is simply reverting every single removal of links to this site. IrishGuy talk 18:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Irishguy is simply removing every single link to this site. I daresay that on some articles, they make defintiely an useful addition, and find it strange when they are removed without checking this.--Mallarme 22:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Feel free to justify that accusation with some evidence. I have not simply removed every single link. I have barely removed any. I removed a duplicate link recently, and I removed a few more a few days past. The few other articles I looked over, I kept them when they were used as references. IrishGuy talk 22:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
It looks like Wjhonson has reverted two three of the changes. This editor is experienced and appears to have no conflict of interest. To me this is really equivalent to the COI editor placing a request to include the link on the talk page and a neutral editor then deciding to do it. I see no intent to prove a point or subvert the spam project. Wjhonson is also concerned about not biting someone who has not been adequately warned. That is good sense too. I prefer running someone through all four spam templates without jumping to spam4 too quickly. I also don't have a problem with removing all conflict of interest additions of links without reviewing each one for appropriateness. We already know they are inappropriate because of the COI. The same links added by neutral editors, of course, need to be reviewed. ✤ JonHarder talk 03:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you, but just to clarify, A Ramachandran did use the {spam1} notice, so I don't think biting is an issue in this particular situation. -- Satori Son 03:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Point taken. ✤ JonHarder talk 03:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
As I pointed out to Wjhonson on my talk page, Kh7 has been an editor here since March of 2003. That is a fair amount of time to become familiar with the guidelines. IrishGuy talk 18:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
You did notice though that after some edits in spring 2003 she was inactive for 3 years, right? And that all her edits were in the backwaters of Wikipedia, not in Wikipedia Community Space? --Mallarme 22:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
That is being slightly disingenous. Most of her edits were in 2003 so it isn't exactly accurate to say after some edits in spring 2003. She edited many articles including Valley of the Kings, Uncertain, Texas, Zazen, and Liberal Catholic Church. While they may not be to your personal taste, but I wouldn't call them Wikipedia's backwaters. She has an edit history of over 250 edits so I would hardly classify her as a neophyte. IrishGuy talk 00:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
It's entirely plausible that an editor can plow blithely on, unaware of certain guidelines. Has anyone else noticed how spammers and other conflict of interest editors think the guidelines are for the other guy and what they are doing is "useful" and shouldn't be questioned? And they are completely sincere about that. Perhaps we need a corollary to "Assume Good Faith" called "Assume No Clue" meaning that editors have no clue that they have gone astray of the guidelines until being warned (or demonstrate understanding by using guidelines against their competitors!). Just some thoughts to stir the pot. ✤ JonHarder talk 03:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Brainparad & nobel-winners

Both sites are exactly the same and both appear to be complete ripoffs of britannica.com. Then I looked closer... In Henri La Fontaine nobel-winners.com was used as a source.... in 2003.[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henri_La_Fontaine&diff=1461838&oldid=1461834] nobel-winners.com has a note that all content is released under GFDL... Not I gotta think again... it is possible that britannica.com ripped them off? If someone knows more about this, advise would be appreciated. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 03:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Every article I've checked is a direct cut-and-past from EB. Even the [www.nobel-winners.com/ paragraph on the homepage of the website] is an amalgamation of a [www.amazon.com/Nobel-Prize-History-Controversy-Prestige/dp/product-description/155970537X book description] and copy from the [nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/ actual Nobel website]. Still, I don't get what the benefit of the links is. Nposs 04:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
According to the internet archive: nobel-winners.com reached its basic form [web.archive.org/web/*/www.nobel-winners.com/ Oct. 13, 2003]. nobel.brainparad.com came next ([web.archive.org/web/*/nobel.brainparad.com/ Oct. 27, 2005]) and brainparad.com is first documented on [web.archive.org/web/*/brainparad.com Dec. 20, 2005]. Nposs 04:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Aparently this came up befor: User:W.marsh/list#Editors_with_multiple_problems_uncovered. Some were cleared up at the time. I'm starting to think we have a small problem here. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 07:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Andras_M._Nagy and User:Andrasnm

Mistook him for a vandal at first, but it appears to be an author using WP to promote his website and books. I tried to warn him about WP:COI, but he has subsequently created a page about himself (Andras_M._Nagy) that serves only to list his books. Not exactly sure how to handle the situation. Suggestions? (Some of the links he has added to his own website contain content that might be worth linking - so I haven't deleted all of them.) Nposs 20:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Consider "Please could you also read WP:AUTO carefully. Creating an article about yourself is very strongly discouraged and the article may well be deleted on principle." also consider AfD on the article itself (In my view that's a call on best guess on notability but a lot of people would do it on principle). --BozMo talk 22:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I took care of it. I looked into it and the books are published by a press he himself created. The whole thing is non-notable in the extreme so I slapped an AfD on it. IrishGuy talk 22:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Well done. I thought the range of titles bizarre but I didn't get further. --BozMo talk 22:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help everybody. Nposs 00:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Member of WikiProject Spamming!

Wisdomking (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) was caught Spamming bollywoodpoint.com and emzr.com, now he's [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Wisdomking&diff=prev&oldid=101065587 joining the team]...
Adsense pub-6534719876029376
emzr.com
bollywoodpoint.com

Spam sock accounts

Uday4ru (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
59.184.31.15 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.93.90.156 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.93.76.208 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.184.62.19 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.184.27.218 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.93.88.19 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
59.184.57.248 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)
I thought this amusing--Hu12 23:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the title is ambiguous? Wikispam members could after all be a club of people who spam? Tickled me too --BozMo talk 09:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
cracks me up, changed the title to fit, haha--Hu12 15:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Linkspam at Anchored Cross

Hey, I'm not sure how to proceed, or rather, proceed further. For some time, someone has been adding to the Anchored Cross article "see also Anchored Cross (band)", a myspace page.

I'll start from the beginning; I first started clearing out the neo-classical metal list, removing red links and spam, and others not even related to it. There was one myspace linkspam; of course, an anonymous user wrote an insult on my talk page, and vandalised my page.

They then added the link on the Anchored Cross article. Since the anonymous user seemed determined, I changed it from an external link, to a red wiki link. Another user then removed the link altogether, which I agree with. The page has never been made, and I doubt it would pass notability to be included regardless.

However, for a while now, an anonymous user has readded it over and over again. If you check the page's history, you can see it's been going on since the end of November. Given the constant spam by a similar IP address, and obviously never listening, I am unsure how to proceed.

I'm rather annoyed, and would rather not have that link on Wikipedia even for a minute until someone removes it, however I don't believe that's feasible. What can I do? I'm not new to Wikipedia, but all I've ever done is edit articles, never done anything more, so I don't know what to do. Any help please? --Dayn 07:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Bit trivial but I haven't seem many editors use the editing comment "added linkspam" before. I wonder whether this article really merits existing though: can you imagine a decent amount of content on it? --BozMo talk 09:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I left a comment at User talk:75.7.234.85, I hope that was around what I should be doing. Personally, I don't think there would be much content at all; from the myspace page, he's 16 years old and it's a solo project that, as far as I know, has been around since 2006 and is unsigned. I left it up to him to determine notability, and Thunderstone's article as a reference to use if he decides to create it. From there, no doubt if it doesn't pass either things, it'll be nominated for deletion by someone. --Dayn 10:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Dayn, you shouldn't have to put up with this (nor should Wikipedia). This has been pretty bad consider the user page vandalism and personal attacks.
Detailed spam summary:
I recommend blacklisting. Any blacklist request may or may not be approved, so don't count on problems stopping.
Dayn, if further incidents occur, I suggest refering admins, etc. to that link for background. If you see further vandalism or spamming or if you get even a hint of further incivility, take it ASAP to WP:ANI. This person has had all the polite requests, coaching, explanations, warnings, etc they need and have so far responded with further problems even after a block. ShiftCurrent doesn't have to be an adult to edit an encyclopedia -- we have many respected high-volume editors that are also 16 years old, some of whom are admins. ShiftCurrent does have to act like an adult, however to edit here. We're an encyclopedia project, not a blog or forum.
I don't encourage this person writing any more articles since the musicians are very non-notable; article submissions will just waste someone's time. Also, one of the accounts, ShiftCurrent (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) was briefed on the rules when Ibnh was speedy-deleted.
Thank you very much for fighting the good fight all these months. Consider becoming a WikiProject Spam volunteer! --A. B. (talk) 15:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
P.S., If others agree on blacklisting, can someone else handle it -- I'm out of wiki-minutes today. Thanks, --A. B. (talk) 15:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, awesome, thank you. I'll refer to WP:ANI if it happens once more. I may as well join; there's a lot of info here that I didn't know about, I didn't understand how to work with the inner mechanics of maintenance. --Dayn 16:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Linkspam at The Long Tail

The Long Tail appears to be a useful article, and many of us have heard of the general idea, but its 'External links' section is filling up with cruft. I recently deleted a slide presentation from a search-engine optimization company [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Long_Tail&diff=prev&oldid=101250141] and got this response on my User_talk:

Net Concepts is a Search Optimization company, and to that end they are involved in online marketing. This white paper, however, is not a sales tool so much as it is a presentation of some interesting and relative research with regard to the Long Tail concept as it relates to SEO.

Does anyone have general advice on how to protect the page? I watch RSS (file format) and that page has an enthusiastic crew of spam-deleters, but The Long Tail seems bereft of a protective community. Any advice? EdJohnston 22:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

You're on the right track Ed. I've added it to my watch list - I expect others will too. I've also taken out an SEO Blog link and added an external links tag - which may make come other editors think (it may not:-). It's pretty bad list - duplicate entries, blogs, "white paper" type articles from commercial companies.... though I can see why such a new and evolving popular concept might have good reason for a variety of links that would otherwise be inappropriate. One thing I've found can help is to make a proposal on the talk page about which links you think should stay and say you'll make the edit in 24 hours if you don't get any response. In general you need to be reasonably aggressive to cut these lists down because once a link is on, people don't really look at the way the whole list is growing out of control. -- Siobhan Hansa 23:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Reference Spam, 8 Months of S.E.O.

Professorgupta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
Adsense pub-3279714273926761

onlineloanofficers.com onlineloanofficers.com search wikipedia for onlineloanofficers.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interest-only_loan&diff=prev&oldid=77318557][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unsecured_loan&diff=prev&oldid=78956112][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Benefactor&diff=prev&oldid=81363036][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Antichresis&diff=prev&oldid=81367538][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adjustable_rate_mortgage&diff=prev&oldid=90287959][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bankruptcy_risk_score&diff=prev&oldid=90290532][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Debt_consolidation&diff=prev&oldid=91564567][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Asset_protection&diff=prev&oldid=100990595][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Annuity_%28finance_theory%29&diff=prev&oldid=101372492][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Real_estate_appraisal&diff=prev&oldid=101374943][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Appraised_value&diff=prev&oldid=101376866][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Asset_protection&diff=prev&oldid=100990595][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Buydown&diff=prev&oldid=101381936][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Credit_rating&diff=prev&oldid=101384435][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Asset_protection&diff=101378035&oldid=93457871][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cross-collateralization&diff=prev&oldid=101385871]
shaadibliss.com www.shaadibliss.com search wikipedia for shaadibliss.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mail-order_bride&diff=prev&oldid=95083621][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marriage_websites&diff=prev&oldid=79597830][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Madhuri_Dixit&diff=prev&oldid=77670559][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unrequited_love&diff=prev&oldid=77668640][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friend_zone&diff=prev&oldid=77604822][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bipasha_Basu&diff=prev&oldid=76956914][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Udita_Goswami&diff=prev&oldid=76517112][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rati_Agnihotri&diff=prev&oldid=76512912][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Supriya_Pathak&diff=prev&oldid=76511578][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smita_Patil&diff=prev&oldid=76509350][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pooja_Batra&diff=prev&oldid=76373413][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meenakshi_Seshadri&diff=prev&oldid=76372534][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jaya_Prada&diff=prev&oldid=76370790][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deepika_Padukone&diff=prev&oldid=76361809][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships&diff=prev&oldid=75416865][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Mark_Karr&diff=prev&oldid=73331425][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kal_Penn&diff=prev&oldid=69178019][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sexless_marriage&diff=prev&oldid=66514287][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marriage_websites&diff=prev&oldid=58166263][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marriage_crunch&diff=prev&oldid=57688134][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamluk&diff=prev&oldid=56288758][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fresh_off_the_boat&diff=prev&oldid=51913062]
crazysportsfan.com crazysportsfan.com search wikipedia for crazysportsfan.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jay_Witasick&diff=prev&oldid=72769699][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jamie_Walker&diff=prev&oldid=72768879][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=James_Shields_%28pitcher%29&diff=prev&oldid=72768589][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jake_Woods&diff=prev&oldid=72768346][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Greg_Aquino&diff=prev&oldid=72767664][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grant_Balfour&diff=prev&oldid=72767289][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Giovanni_Carrara&diff=prev&oldid=72766974][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Sherrill&diff=prev&oldid=72766680][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gary_Majewski&diff=prev&oldid=72766302][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Freddy_Garc%C3%ADa&diff=prev&oldid=72765970][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fernando_Cabrera&diff=prev&oldid=72765295][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fabio_Castro&diff=prev&oldid=72764863][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erik_Bedard&diff=prev&oldid=72764516][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Emiliano_Fruto&diff=prev&oldid=72764101][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edwin_Jackson&diff=prev&oldid=72763791][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doug_Davis&diff=prev&oldid=72763445][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doug_Brocail&diff=prev&oldid=72763208][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Weathers&diff=prev&oldid=72762569][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dave_Gassner&diff=prev&oldid=72762114][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Darrell_Rasner&diff=prev&oldid=72761784][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Damion_Easley&diff=prev&oldid=72761365][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cristian_Guzm%C3%A1n&diff=prev&oldid=72760826][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chris_Snyder&diff=prev&oldid=72760004][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chris_Shelton_%28baseball_player%29&diff=prev&oldid=72759680][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chris_Gomez&diff=prev&oldid=72759129][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chris_Britton&diff=prev&oldid=72758528][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Moehler&diff=prev&oldid=69167643][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Anderson_%28outfielder%29&diff=prev&oldid=69167446][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandon_League&diff=prev&oldid=69167204][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandon_Fahey&diff=prev&oldid=69166944][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandon_Duckworth&diff=prev&oldid=68140281][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brad_Radke&diff=prev&oldid=68139436][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dan_Wheeler&diff=prev&oldid=68138963][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brad_Hawpe&diff=prev&oldid=68138116][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bill_Bray&diff=prev&oldid=68137849][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ben_Johnson_%28baseball_player%29&diff=prev&oldid=68069745][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_Rhodes&diff=prev&oldid=68069409][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ambiorix_Burgos&diff=prev&oldid=68069042][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adri%C3%A1n_Gonz%C3%A1lez&diff=prev&oldid=68068765][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aaron_Sele&diff=prev&oldid=68051513][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aaron_Miles&diff=prev&oldid=68050988][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aaron_Fultz&diff=prev&oldid=68050608][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bernie_Castro&diff=prev&oldid=68050314]

These are trickier because they contain actual player stats not on WP: anyone got an alternative source? --BozMo talk 10:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

gurusofdating.com gurusofdating.com search wikipedia for gurusofdating.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Platonic_love&diff=91220859&oldid=89770031]
yourmoviepal.com yourmoviepal.com search wikipedia for yourmoviepal.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casablanca_%28film%29&diff=prev&oldid=90263437][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Gods_Must_Be_Crazy&diff=prev&oldid=90266350][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casablanca_%28film%29&diff=prev&oldid=90263437]

done --BozMo talk 10:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

presidentpolls2008.com presidentpolls2008.com search wikipedia for presidentpolls2008.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ramsey_Clark&diff=prev&oldid=90280247]

done --BozMo talk 10:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

amifobornot.com www.amifobornot.com search wikipedia for amifobornot.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fresh_off_the_boat&diff=prev&oldid=82852299][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fresh_off_the_boat&diff=prev&oldid=82852299]

done by someone --BozMo talk 10:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

nflsystems.com nflsystems.com search wikipedia for nflsystems.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bodog&diff=prev&oldid=79787911][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Added_game&diff=prev&oldid=66033467][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Circled_game&diff=prev&oldid=66031592][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Buying_points&diff=prev&oldid=66030234][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Total_bases&diff=prev&oldid=58928234][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bounce_back_betting_system&diff=prev&oldid=58161305][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bounce_back_betting_system&diff=prev&oldid=58161176][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zig-zag_%28betting%29&diff=prev&oldid=56487188]

done plus/or AFDed the linkbait articles these hung off

camsfaq.com camsfaq.com search wikipedia for camsfaq.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Streamate&diff=prev&oldid=79589171][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Prostitution_in_Thailand&diff=prev&oldid=59251615][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Massage_parlor&diff=prev&oldid=59237662][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Azusa_Hibino&diff=prev&oldid=58169814][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Streamate&diff=prev&oldid=55548243]

Clear - looks like this was cleaned up. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

didbarrycheat.com didbarrycheat.com search wikipedia for didbarrycheat.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jorge_Sedano&diff=prev&oldid=56293172]
lasvegasbuyeragent.com lasvegasbuyeragent.com search wikipedia for lasvegasbuyeragent.com
  • edits- [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inglewood%2C_California&diff=prev&oldid=52275983]


  • other sites added
glbtq.com
education.ti.com
wes.org [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Certified_Financial_Planner&diff=prev&oldid=81682306]
rics.org
city-data.com [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Summerlin%2C_Nevada&diff=prev&oldid=79597227]
poojabatra.com [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pooja_Batra&diff=prev&oldid=76373413]
commerce.appraisalfoundation.org
sportus.com [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Odds_checker&diff=prev&oldid=58927411][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Middling&diff=prev&oldid=58547910][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soft_lines&diff=prev&oldid=58546769]
easybaseballbetting.com [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Action_bet&diff=prev&oldid=58168219][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sports_Betting_Systems&diff=prev&oldid=54210261]
gapsn.org [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fresh_off_the_boat&diff=prev&oldid=51913062]


  • Adsense additions
pub-6078554507886597 [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Annual_Percentage_Yield&diff=prev&oldid=101368418]
pub-2929677839778239 [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cross-collateralization&diff=prev&oldid=101385871]
pub-6098511427863223 [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Madhuri_Dixit&diff=prev&oldid=77670559]
pub-9251231417178797 [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bipasha_Basu&diff=prev&oldid=76956914]
pub-0195329903705162 [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rati_Agnihotri&diff=prev&oldid=76512912]

No doubt this is the future of spam. citations and reference are being abused constantly. By all accounts the edits, and edit summaries seemmed legit, however on closer examination it was spamming on a huge scale. this is only one persons contribs, can't even begin to speculate how much more from this publisher is still out there. Now for the cleanup--Hu12 23:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh wow... thats depressing. :( Can we blacklist those sites and let it work it's self out? ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 04:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm a little confused, are you suggesting that User:Professorgupta is an SEO spammer? I don't really see the evidence adding up like that. More like a well-intentioned (overall very helpful) editor using bad links to back up generally good work. Is there a pattern to the links that I'm missing? Nposs 04:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, wow. I take it all back. Professorgupta is clearly associated with several of the spammed sites. There is even an article about SEO spamming for sports links which includes the now deleted Scamicappers article. You can read the [crazysportsfan.com/sites/sports-search-engine-optimization.html Future of Sports Search Engine Optimization] for yourself at one of the user's many sites. Blacklist these with prejudice. Nposs 04:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The circle widens: I was surprised that many of the links above were registered by a single user in the Whois information. Well, that person is also the head of [www.seoforsports.com/contact.html SEO for sports], the organization behind the sports link spamming SEO operation. Blacklist 'em. Nposs 04:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

List of virtually contentless artciles added by User:Professorgupta featuring links to the user's websites or inter-wiki links to articles with links to websites:

  • Bounce back betting system
  • Added game
  • Buying points
  • Circled game

those four I found and AfDed because realising you had listed them--BozMo talk 10:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Middling
  • Soft lines
  • Action bet
  • Zig-zag (betting)
  • Odds checker
  • Grand salami

I have AfDed the above. The below someone else can do. --BozMo talk 11:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Most of these seem like good candidates for AfD. Nposs 05:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Just left this guy what appears to be his first serious spam warning... --BozMo talk 10:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

We don't delete articles simply because of who started them. We delete articles for being unverifiable, for being original research, or for not satisfying our relevant notability criteria. Please don't nominate articles for deletion simply because a particular editor started them. Nominate them only if they contravene our policies. Bad articles on notable subjects should be cleaned up, not deleted. AFD is not the only tool in the toolbox. Uncle G 11:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. That's why I removed one from the AfD batch because it looked plausible. [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FCircled_game&diff=101536478&oldid=101535955]. Also note that the crazysportsfan links above have not been stripped out because people are taking care to think about the links despite their origin. --BozMo talk 12:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'm going to bring this up on WP:AN and see if there is support for a perminate community ban. I'm quite close to doing it right now, but the user seems to be making usefull edits as well. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Request on AN has been made. Will be interesting to see what happens. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


Careful please! Cleaning up I established that crazysportsfan.com was the only listed source for player stats and people will complain. Can we find an alternative or remove that one from the blacklist??--BozMo talk 19:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks like their stats are a copyvio drawn from an uncredited source. For example, SI.com and MSNBC sports both get their stats from www.stats.com/. Yahoo sports has the same information (and fewer ads), but it isn't clear where they get the data from ([sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/ click on a player name for an example]). It might be a good choice for a replacement. There was some debate about who owned the stats in MLB last year, but I can't find any info about the resolution at the moment. Nposs 19:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Another two sites on WP which cross link with the above are onlypunjab.com and icudatingcams.com. I will have a quick look at who added the links to them when I have some time --BozMo talk 20:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

joseplacido.net

Does anyone have some insight into this situation:

  • on 10-22-2006 joseplacido.net [whois.domaintools.com/joseplacido.net is created] (and joseplacido.com gets [whois.domaintools.com/joseplacido.com new DNS information])
  • on 10-30-2006 Special:Contributions/83.99.3.138 adds it to two articles - [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Pl%C3%A1cido_Caama%C3%B1o one relevant], [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pl%C3%A1cido_Domingo&diff=prev&oldid=84525839 one irrelevant]
  • today, both sites just redirect to the Wikipedia article for José Plácido Caamaño (where the link remains) Nposs 07:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. They have been cached by google as permanent diverts to Wikipedia too: [72.14.221.104/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GEUA%2CGEUA%3A2005-46%2CGEUA%3Aen&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.joseplacido.net%2F]. More bizarrely google's listing of the backlinks to this site include WP NL (see [www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GEUA%2CGEUA%3A2005-46%2CGEUA%3Aen&q=link%3Awww.joseplacido.net&btnG=Search] ) which has been nofollowed for years and does not have a link to this site on any version of the page in its history. I think this means that the site has succeeded at some point in doing a redirect hijack on the NL page. The page is not currently hijacked. I guess that they are trying to do the same here? This is a bit beyond my expertise I am afraid. --BozMo talk 10:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Bring this up on meta blacklist. This is the kind of site the blacklist was made for. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I've [meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#joseplacido.net posted it there], but I still don't understand what the point of this type of linking might be. Nposs 17:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, It's a bit WP:BEANy, so I won't say. It's quite nefarious. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
What's WP NL? --A. B. (talk) 04:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Netherlands (NL) Wikipedia. Athænara ✉ 05:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Spam reborn

I just finished going through and double-checking all of the link searches in the last talk archive, and it looks like these spam links have flared up again:

[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.lala.com lala.com]; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2006 Archive Dec#lala.com
[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Linksearch&target=%2A.peterlang.com peterlang.com]; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2006 Archive Dec#Book / blog spam
[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.digital-desert.com digital-desert.com]; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2006 Archive Dec#Abraxas Engineering Virtual Environments

I am not sure the digital dessert ones were ever taken out. I have removed all bar two of them but most seem to have been there continually since Oct 2005 when a few IPs put them in (none of whom were warned: doesn't seem much point now they've been cold for 18 months e.g. Special:Contributions/66.146.62.152 Special:Contributions/66.146.62.14 Special:Contributions/66.146.62.15 Special:Contributions/66.146.62.11 (link diverts to digital-dessert) Special:Contributions/66.146.62.16 (july 2006 to aeve.com, an affiliate)


--BozMo talk 09:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC) Add also affiliated site by the same spammers (which I have cleaned up for now) [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.mojavedesert.net mojavedesert.net]

[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.lyricsdownload.com lyricsdownload.com]; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2006 Archive Dec#Adsense-focused blogs

Otherwise, our cleanup from last month looks pretty good. If anyone has time to help me remove these again, it would be greatly appreciated. -- Satori Son 17:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

SEO world championship

Some of you may already know [www.seoworldchampionship.com/contestrules.asp about this]. I've just started to see the first links to roll in [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Greenhouse_gas_inventory&diff=101669011&oldid=91785528] [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Awareness&diff=101691321&oldid=101671692] [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Awareness&diff=101529468&oldid=101441603]. Perhaps there is more I haven't found. I won't repeat the secret phrase here, but is there any way to guard against this type of vandalism? The contest lasts until May 1. I know the contest is not new. Are there lessons learned from past years? Nposs 08:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Given the keywords are generally chosen so no legit site would list them I suggest we key searching for the keywords and blacklist any site which comes up? --BozMo talk 10:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Not a blanket blacklist policy, as the topic is/may become notable and legitimate sites talking about it would use the keywords. Blacklisting sources would be a bad idea. But yeah, otherwise, it needs to be watched for. —Wrathchild (talk) 14:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't know, why not come out and say it: "globalwarming awareness2007" is the key word. Maybe we'll get WikiProject Spam a prize! Every link on every Wikipedia page except our articles is coded "nofollow" so we're not doing someone a favor by putting a spam link on this or any talk page. (Also, our English Wikipedia is the only one that doesn't nofollow its article links; the Dutch, the Germans, the Ethiopians, and everyone else take a harder line).
"so we're not doing someone a favor by putting a spam link on this or any talk page" not so sure about that. We know that googlebot still calls for pages only linked to by nofollow and we don't know if if still uses them to determine relevance (I am happy to run a test if anyone can tell me why it matters to us: we know why it matters to SEOs). All we know is that they assign no pagerank. --BozMo talk 16:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Seriously, this is a gift -- record the IPs and user names and look for their other sites and contributions. If there are none, then suspect an open proxy and report it to WP:OP. And if the linked sites aren't truly useful and meeting the letter of the law of WP:EL and WP:RS, blacklist them. Even if they do, Google search a key phrase or two to make sure they're not just scraper sites mirroring Wikipedia or some university page. That's my 2 cents/2 pence worth.
Anyway we play it, we come out ahead, assuming we follow up. Maybe someone can put a notice at the Village Pump and in the Signpost for others to be on the lookout.--A. B. (talk) 16:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

thought I'd post this before its deleted Globalwarming awareness2007, we are certainly a target--Hu12 00:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice catch! Delete away the article -- I've saved a copy to User:A. B./Sandbox10 (they all have nofollow links there). Perhaps someone could load those links into Shadowbot. --A. B. (talk) 02:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I've also salted the article for good measure. Sandstein 07:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Heres the [www.seoworldchampionship.com/leaderboard/ leaderboard] list. note many of these are also subdomains, so also check for the root.
global-warming-awareness2007.org
itsglobalwarmingawareness2007.blogspot.com
globalawareness.biz
blog.outer-court.com
globawarmingawareness.blogspot.com
global-pink-hat-warming.org.uk
globalwarmingawareness2007.be
2007globalwarming.com
globalwarmingawareness2007.us
pink-globalwarming-awareness2007.com
globalwarmingawarenessblog.com
reddog-marketing.com
globalwarming-awareness2007info.info
bookner.com
globalwarming--awareness2007.info
seo-contest.info
spoonylife.com
jerkasmarknad.com
swc-globalwarming-awareness2007.com
freecomputerscripts.com
2007globalwarmingawareness.co.uk
globalwarmingawareness2007theblog.com
v7n.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.weben.fr
seotroll.com
earth-globalwarming-awareness2007.com
taggle.us
globalwarmingawareness2007.dk
le-referencement.net
seoworldchampionship.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.fr
globalwarming-awareness2007.us
seocontest-globalwarming-awareness2007.com
quickonlinetips.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.teamspeak-gratuit.net
globalwarming-awareness-raising-2007.com
globalwarming-awareness2007-web.com
blog.globalwarming.awareness2007.eu
globalwarming-awareness2007blog.com
seophane.com
http://globalwarming-awareness2007-arshad.com
globalwarmingawareness.us
eglobalwarmingawareness2007.com
yooter.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.degoter.com
globalwarmingawarenessin2007.blogspot.comx
globalwarming2007.01dir.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.biz
urban78killer.comx
google-kai.com
topseo.org
msnblockchecker.net
nygiaa.org
ahfx.net
goglobalwarmingawareness2007.com
blogmarks.net
swik.net
sandossu.journals.ie
newdesignworld.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.net
mesfavs.com
focus-globalwarming-awareness2007.com
seo-globalwarming-awareness2007.org
clipclip.org
taggly.com
kevinjb.com
globalwarmingawareness2007.ownedyousucka.com
globalwarmingawareness2007.alkablog.com
jimwestergren.com
digg.com
globalwarming-awareness2007.isabloodycloaker.com
clausheinrich.com
reddit.com
hopenet.net.ph
flickr.com
e-globalwarming-awareness2007.com
isabloodycloaker.com
inform.com
gstories.com
ebsiteauctionhub.com
del.icio.us
blinklist.com
operathai.net
toms.taggle.us
globalwarming-awareness2007-fr.com
alpinistyka.pl
forumuniversity.com
contributors.globalwarming-awareness2007.dk
seosphere.com
globalwarmingawareness2007contest.com
us.en-gb.pledgebank.com
lobalwarmingawareness-2007.com
thegooglecache.com
jdsblog.com
pt-br.pledgebank.com
seocontestentry.com
uk.pledgebank.com
cy.pledgebank.com
us.pt-br.pledgebank.com
en-gb.pledgebank.com
frenchtaskforce.com

--Hu12 03:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

None of them are legit, as they all must have been created after January 15 2007 as part of the competition. I'd blacklist them all. alphachimp 06:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Some of those sites are legit, but is there any reason not to add "globalwarming.?awareness2007" to the spam blacklist? I was about to do it myself before looking at this thread. (SEO spammers are about one level above puppy-kickers in my estimation.) Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 22:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Watch out what you do here, indeed some of these ARE legit, in fact, some are big blogs in the SEO sphere. --Jdevalk 22:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Revising that regex, I'm just going to blacklist "global.*warming.*awareness2007", particularly as I've taken some of those links off of fr: and sv: already too. The regex has been tested against several of the larger Wikipedias and the only hits I've found are spam for this contest. Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 23:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

User:A. B./Sandbox10

I have a partial list of domains involved in this contest on my user subpage at User:A. B./Sandbox10. Since this WikiProject Spam talk page was semi-protected a little earlier today, contestants' vandalism has shifted to that user subpage, culminating in the page just being blanked.[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:A._B./Sandbox10&curid=9012982&action=history] Those IPs are probably worth evaluating as potential sources of further mischief unless they're dial-up modems. The ones I checked out were mostly DSL. There might also be an open proxy or two -- always worth bolcking. Also, the user contributions may indicate some additional domains being spammed.

Until the nofollow decision sinks in, I think we'll also see some Joe jobs -- highly visible, provocative spamming of one competitor's domain ... by another competitor hoping to get the first guy in trouble. My personal attitude is, that's OK, bring 'em on. None of these links belong here. Given the nature of all these links, I'm not going to lay awake at night worrying if some globalwarmingawareness2007 domain really "deserved" to be blacklisted or not.

I encourage admins to take advantage of WP:IAR in their handling of all of this. I don't think we need to go through a 5-warning sequence to establish that these people may not be editing in good faith.

Enjoy the show. I'll revert my user page so it can be attacked some more if you want; I don't mind it being used as a honeypot. It may be worthwhile to just put it on a watchlist and keep reverting it for the information it gives us. You don't have to semi-protect it; my versions are always available from the page history. --A. B. (talk) 20:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

More globalwarming awareness2007

I'm not sure what all Globalwarming Awareness2007 (talk · contribs) has been doing because I think some edits have been deleted, including the main user page, and not available in the contribs. What is going on with the last two contribs though?[en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Globalwarming_Awareness2007&diff=prev&oldid=103902802][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Globalwarming_Awareness2007&diff=prev&oldid=103903163] He appears to still be gaming the system. ✤ JonHarder talk 21:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess he hopes google will see his talk page. I don't see much point in deleting it since that is pretty unlikely... --BozMo talk 21:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:NoMoreLinks has been proposed for deletion.

The template Template:NoMoreLinks (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) has been proposed for deletion. See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 January 19 to help reach a consensus on what to do. Mieciu K 14:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess the issue is that it is not in use. If we use it it will get kept. --BozMo talk 14:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
But isn't it subst:'d and only visible when editing? How would one determine if it's used? (And I've used it at least once.) —Wrathchild (talk) 14:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Please point that out on the TfD and it may get withdrawn: I didn't realise that. --BozMo talk 14:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


technorati.com

Anyone had a look at technorati.com for a while? I know it has some legit stuff but there are a lot of links from it to spammers crowing about spambaiting WP etc and it might be worth going through all the techy links to pages on it [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.technorati.com] shows 164 links but many are to non mainspace pages. --BozMo talk 15:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Most links I see at my first glance are on AfD pages, to show people have a certain influence in their community by linking to a search result, i see no pain in that. Other than that, in the blog world, Technorati is among the biggest influences out there, so i'd expect a whole lot of links, and am even finding 164 a bit low :) --Jdevalk 22:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

second opinion on user contribs

AJackl, not sure what to make of them, is he/she promoting something?--Hu12 17:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Landmark Education - [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Landmark_Education&diff=prev&oldid=101807322]
Added:
  • www.landmarkgraduateseminars.com/ "©2004 Landmark Education. All Rights Reserved." [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=landmarkgraduateseminars.com]
  • www.landmarkforumsyllabus.com/ "©2004 Landmark Education. All Rights Reserved."
  • www.landmarkforummethodology.com/ "©2004 Landmark Education. All Rights Reserved."
  • And two links to subpages of www.landmarkeducation.com/
  • Data integration - [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Data_integration&diff=prev&oldid=101812684]
  • www.espsg.com/solutions.php "ESP Solutions Group"
  • Data Rules - [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Data_Rules&direction=next&oldid=98831792]
  • www.bpmn.org/ "Copyright © 2005 OMG.org" [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=bpmn.org]
  • www.espsg.com/ "ESP Solutions Group" [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=espsg.com]
  • Schools Interoperability Framework [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schools_Interoperability_Framework&diff=19284836&oldid=17345901][en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schools_Interoperability_Framework&diff=81690814&oldid=80418763]
  • www.k12.wy.us/WISE/wise_home - dead? [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=k12.wy.us DOE owned]
  • www.sifinfo.org "Copyright 2005 Schools Interoperability Framework Association." [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=sifinfo.org]
  • www.vcasel.com "Copyright © 2006 CPSI, Inc." - (Has a link to sifinfo.org)[www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=vcasel.com Columbia, IL 62236]
  • www.edustructures.com "Copyright © 2002-2006 Edustructures LLC." - (Has a link to sifinfo.org) [www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp SLC, UT 84102]

Ok, there is a short list of some of the links this person has linked to. Every website seems to be independent entities. It appears to me that this user edits education related articles... more specifically Landmark Education related articles.

It doesnt appear to me that this user is acting in bad faith... Perhapse misguided, but not in bad faith. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 18:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

But the user discusses on their talk page being associated with many of those businesses and websites. A reminder of WP:COI and WP:EL in order. Nposs 18:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Link addition counting

Recently, I decided to make a program that would parse the logs from the linkwatcher bot in #wikipedia-spam on freenode and dump the logs to my userspace. Here are today's, and the archive goes back to around 7:00 PM UTC January 4, 2007.

What do you think? Veinor (talk to me) 21:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Its cool. I book marked it when it got posted on the WP:AN. Best would be if we could get the data into some kind of dBase to track over more than a day. But it is interesting to look at. Actually a few of them like : Special:Contributions/Zbd are pretty clear cut and not yet caught and cleaned up (I'll come back and do it if no one else does). There are quite a lot there--BozMo talk 22:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Thats great, book marked! --Hu12 22:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm applying for a toolserv account so I can have a dBase like that. Currently, all the reports are manually uploaded (but not manually written; I'm not that insane). Veinor (talk to me) 22:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I just want to thanks Veinor for doing this script, it really makes it more obvious who is spamming... does a better job at times then the live linkwatcher feed. Awsome job! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 00:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

*.banglapedia.search.com.bd

following User:BozMo's lead on Special:Contributions/Zbd, how do we feel about [banglapedia.search.com.bd banglapedia.search.com.bd]? here is the web link search: [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.banglapedia.search.com.bd]. does this meet WP:RS (authoritative, verifiable)? it has some 600 links across bio articles, but it is a wiki with a long list of academic contributors (although i've certainly never heard of the site or the people). opinions? JoeSmack Talk 00:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

There are 495 links that are in mainspace. Personally I don't think this site adds much to wikipedida. Currently it is depending upon a crap load of ads, some are even in the middle of the page text, such as [banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/H_0001.htm here]. I also cannot tell where it is getting its sources. Recommend removing this link from wikipedia, unless I missed something here. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 00:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
It looks like a [banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/BoardComm.htm decent source] - mirrored in many places (all with some sort of advertising.) Good site, just overlinked. There is an article: Banglapedia. Nposs 00:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I saw a bunch of Banglapedia links a while back and checked it out -- it looks like good stuff. If you have doubts you could ask someone at a WikiProject for Bangladesh. Ads are not a problem -- not even Adsense ads. We link to NY Times or Guardian stories with no qualms and they always have ads. It's just that it's easy working with spam all the time -- with truly mercenary Adsense parasites -- that we lose site of the fact that there's a lot of content out there that meets WP:RS and carries ads. That's my two cents worth, anyway. --A. B. (talk) 01:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This shouldn't be an issue of relativity to something like the NY times. It should stand on its own merits or demerits, whatever we decide here. JoeSmack Talk 01:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, I think whoever first wrote the article may have given a mirror site for the URL. I think the source site is banglapedia.org/ which has no advertising (but unfortunately uses frames). Check for example this banglapedia.search.com.bd link [banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/A_0001.htm] vs this banglapedia.org link [banglapedia.org/HT/A_0001.htm]. Can we have a bot change them all? A Ramachandran 01:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok, that sounds good to me. I will ask around for that bot idea. —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 01:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Ooops, I was thinking of the real Banglapedia. As for the real NY Times, my point was that it's not the ads that should drive our decision, it's the reliability of the material. It's just that a lot of ads may often are a tip off that the link was not added in good faith. --A. B. (talk) 02:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If at all possible I support getting a bot to revert all the sites to the banglapedia.org site --BozMo talk 09:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
BTW are we sure there is no clean site to send 1911 links to? I have half a mind to do one (well, perhaps I only have half a mind anyway. --BozMo talk 11:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Uh, [en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica Wikisource]? A Ramachandran 01:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind, I happened to click on a relatively full volume, silly me assuming the others were as complete. A Ramachandran 01:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok. [en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica Wikisource]? is good. Can we send all the 1911 links there? I have redirected the first hundred or so of the Banglapedia ones to the right place.. only about 600 to go. --BozMo talk 12:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
On Banglapedia see user_talk:Zbd#Banglapedia. This guy has convinced me (see my talk paeg) that banglapedia.search.com.bd was actually the legit first version and that the copyright does not allow third party mirrors. I am not going to switch any more links to the advert free version and I've asked him not to put any in. --BozMo talk 10:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive

I went ahead and archived a bunch of this page... it was over 300 Kb of data! If there is anything that was still current, that I did by mistake, just copy it back out of the archive. (here) Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 00:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


Proposal: restructure these pages?

Personally I find it hard to find things in the archives and whether they exist there. Does anyone else think that we should change to some type of AfD type structure where we archive each suspect group of sites on a subpage of the main page and have a transcluded list here of the currently active ones?

Apart from logic and ease there is a slightly odd other motive, which perhaps I shouldn't mention...it might also make it quicker to get some of the community here to the level of edits on Wikipedia which some people think is needed for a Sysop (as I am just finding out... not sure why)... as AB kindly just pointed out "... include Wikipedia Talk space since that's where most WikiProject Spam activity occurs (compare WP:WPSPAM vs. WT:WPSPAM -- I have no idea why it's that way.)" We can also close blacklist or perm block cases to clean things up. --BozMo talk 10:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

We could split the board in two... Leave this page for general discussion about SPAM and SPAM tactics and move all ongoing spam research and investigations here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/Incident Noticeboard (shortcut: WP:SPAMIN hehe). We could even advertise it as a place for users to report spam for investigation. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 18:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Great idea, I like it. JoeSmack Talk 22:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Anyone else? If we reach consensus on this I'll make it happen. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm all in favour of it, so long as we have the resources (i.e. consistent level of activity) between us to support it. CiaranG 17:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Good idea -- I'm all for it. --A. B. (talk) 13:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I have the same problem, and have been leaving offending spam sites and their sock spam accounts on the offenders talk page (practical for the moment of incident, however not realy seachable for others). Only recently have actualy been adding the URL, so at least if a website search is done, the userspace shows up in the result. Such as gooya.co.uk would yeild User_talk:Arash72 and socks. It would be no effort placing this info in a centralized area, would be much more useful there. I also like the idea of the shortcut (WP:SPAMIN) LOL. --Hu12 15:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Lets start! I'm at work right now, but it is clear that the length of this talkpage shows the need for an incidents page. Can someone set this up? (I'm pretty sure my boss is staring at my back right now...) JoeSmack Talk 16:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll get right on it... ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 05:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

External links in articles are now "nofollow" per Jimbo Wales

At Jimbo Wales' directive, all external links within the English language Wikipedia are now coded "nofollow" -- this should help cut spamming immensely once word gets out in the SEO community.

This was mentioned in the discussion Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Globalwarming awareness2007/SEO world championship -- expect a spam onslaught.

You can check this out for yourself by having your browser display the source code (typically a menu bar command such as "View source code", "Source", or "Page source"); here's an example from the Bacteria article:

  • "<a href="aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/70/7/4230?view=long&pmid=15240306" class="external text" title="aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/70/7/4230?view=long&pmid=15240306" rel="nofollow">Geomicrobiology of high-level nuclear waste-contaminated vadose sediments at the hanford site, Washington state</a>"

The MediaWiki software does this automatically when converting wiki-code to html to send to browsers. --A. B. (talk) 15:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

So isn't this just running up the white flag? No point de-spamming now because it is all nofollow? --BozMo talk 15:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
SEO is only part of the equation. First, don't lose track of what makes a good article. Junk links still detract from the real content. Perhaps the sneakiest SEO spammers have lost incentive, but that still leaves the bread-and-butter COI spammers who think their site deserves to be linked to anything remotely relevant. Also, keep in mind that inspite of nofollow on of other language versions, plenty of cross-wiki spamming has been uncovered. I don't think we will really notice a decrease in spamming activity. One proactive thing that could be done is to make this new policy known, perhaps in our {{spam}} templates. ✤ JonHarder talk 16:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
SEO, from the stats and logs I've got, doesn't appear to be a massive problem, it's more, as you rightly point out, those who just want a few more visitors to their website, WP has lots of visitors so if a few click through to a website with Google AdSense or something, it'll make the site owner a few more quid. Perhaps Wikipedia has such a large volume of traffic now it's not necessary to use Wikipedia to optimise search engine results when the site can, instead, be used as a way to direct traffic to a website itself, anybody got any ideas on how much traffic 100 links placed throughout Wikipedia would generate ? --Kind Regards - Heligoland 16:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Probably not much, since I like to think that people aren't as stupid as the spammers think they are. Doesn't stop them doing it though unfortunately. CiaranG 16:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
So why are we self-assessing as "UNRELIABLE" if it won't actually reduce spam?--BozMo talk 17:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Why don't we wait and see what effect this has? No one knows for sure how much of the spam comes from those primarily interested in pagerank vs. those who just want people to see the link on an article. Very little about Wikipedia is set in stone, folks. I'm sure if we discover that nofollow causes more harm than good, it can be reversed. --AbsolutDan (talk)
Agreed! It might get some dumb SEO's to stop pushing their links in, and it might not, we'll have to see. --Jdevalk 22:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like to point out that this doesn't mater, google gets to decide if they run this site with no follow or not. It would be trivial for google to add a line of code that says to follow wikipedia links regardless of nofollow, just as they may very well have been nofollowing our site for a while now. Google (and the other search engines) can do whatever they want with our site regardless of what we have codded in there. Just given the huge size of wikipedia alone, I can guarantee all of the major search engines have had custom ways of dealing with anything that comes out of this url. In all honesty this is out of our hands at this point. --T-rex 17:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems the "people who need backlinks" are both confused and disappointed. [forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=224044&highlight=wikipedia]. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
What T-rex says sounds right to me. Wikipedia could make nofollow more interesting by removing it from links that have survived a certain time period or number of edits. Mike Linksvayer 20:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It does little to control spam since 1) many spammers are too dumb to know it is turned on, 2) it takes a second to add a link so the traffic is worth the bother, 3) it might be turned off in the future so getting links in now when it is off will seem less spammy, and they will get a benefit in the future, 4) many spammers are dumb, did I mention that one? 2005 01:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Besides, some search engines don't honor "nofollow". If search engines thought that Wikipedia was full of spam links, they could ignore them, even without "nofollow." Likewise, search engines may decide to ignore the nofollows if they think that counting Wikipedia external links helps produce better search results. There are better approaches to spam control, starting with Jimbo talking with the SEO community build mutual understanding. Jehochman (Talk/Contrib) 06:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed with that Jehochman, this is a nice try though, let's see what it does for the spam here... I would be among the first to talk about other measures as well though, and I think some SEO's together with Wikipedians should be able to come up with some good spam solutions. --Jdevalk 22:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Very distressing! Wikipedia is one of the most legitimate forms of "link voting" to exist on the net. Any spammer can put up multiple web pages with links to wherever they want, but when a link survives for a significant amount of time on Wikipedia it actually means something. Wikipedia provides real value to the net in the way it affects search engine rankings. I hate this new policy and fervently hope we remove nofollow from Wikipedia links. Cos 03:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposing Compromise – temporary "nofollow"

Can MediaWiki be arm-twisted to add the attribute in question only to the links contained in recent (for a certain definition of recent) edits? Once a link is part of the page long enough and survives enough edits by others, it is deemed "verified" and the attribute is not generated for it... пан Бостон-Київський 21:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

What purpose would that serve ? Could it be related to [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Tasmanian-pademelon-and-joey.jpg&diff=prev&oldid=99553218] ? Megapixie 05:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
It would give subsequent editors a chance to remove real spam, while allowing non-spammy links (such as the one by me, which you posted) to be "followed". пан Бостон-Київський 13:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
This sounds to me like an excellent idea. Wikipedia's links are a valuable resource for search engines, as they are (IMO) one of the best quality collections of links to useful web pages anywhere on the net. I think losing this information will only be detrimental to the quality of google's search results. JulesH 18:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
While this is an ideal compromise, in reality many articles retain improper links for both long periods of time and through many edits. That's why we have the F.A.Q. "But these links have been here for a long time." under "Common spammer strawmen" section on the main page of this project.
Well, such is life. But the cure – "nofollow" for all links – seems worse than the disease to me...
Furthermore, such a system will only encourage and in fact reward spammers for being sneaky. I won't give examples as not to give any spammers watching this ideas, but hopefully you get the idea. --AbsolutDan (talk) 23:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Well said, AD!--Hu12 23:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't quite understand, what you mean by "sneaky". If something is relevant (however profitable to the person who added it), is it really spam? Perhaps, I do need an example... пан Бостон-Київський 01:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure... lets imagine that everyone links to everything that is possibly relevent, we turn into a linkfarm, which we are not. There are some pages I have come across and have cleaned up that are more links, then content :D. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 01:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, we haven't turned into a linkfarm yet, despite not using the "nofollow". I think, this concern is overblown.пан Бостон-Київський 16:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
The main problem with the sneaky spammers is that they build the sites themselves. In other words, they can create a new site with a page talking about an article, and then add the link to the page to the article as reference. While profiting is not _that_ bad, forging references is. It is not different from creating Geocities pages and using them as references. -- ReyBrujo 01:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually from the little I understand of this issue I just think this particular solution is incredibly hard to code. The "age" of a link is not really stored anywhere simple and there are loads of issues around vandalism blanking pages resetting links etc. I think there just needs to be a greenlist of some sort. --BozMo talk 12:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
There are many problems with spammers, and especially with the sneaky ones. If discouraging spammers were our top priority, we should just close up shop altogether – no Wikipedia, no spammers... If, however, providing relevant links (however annoyingly profitable some of them may be) is deemed a Good Thing [TM], then we should balance... There was no "nofollow" for a long while. There is now. I think, it is too drastic a step which flushes too many babies along with the water, and suggest a smaller one. пан Бостон-Київський 16:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

NostraBozMos predicts

Some effects of nofollow :) :

(1) Google will cache significantly fewer pages from mainspace. Hard to tell of course because the cache goes up and down with the cycle but there was a huge fall in google caching WP talk pages in May and there is a view that the "simplify dataset" part of Google's cycle (when it drops a load of "trivial" pages) is much more likely to drop pages with no external links.

(2) No noticable reduction in spam: still enough gains from actual traffic, links on mirrors and anchor text (which is probably still considered relevant even if nofollowed) and enough stupid spammers to make not noticable reduction.

(3) Editors and spammers are much more inclined to argue endlessly about spammy links claiming that as there is nofollow there is no downside in allowing them. Several Wikispam team members turn to drink (anyone for a sweepstake of who?), because of this and upset by being marked "must try harder" by Jimbo.

(4)Downward effect on WP growth curve with switch of traffic to static mirrors without nofollow (relief to WMF I suppose). Easy to test the later as I have an old advert-free (highly compliant) static mirror which gets about 20,000 Unique IPs a day. I reckon it will go up to 30,000 over about three months.

(5) Enough external commentators comment on this as a "self declaration of low quality" to qualify as "notable" under WP definition.

(6) Encyclopedia Britannica opens champagne.

(7) A litigant cites Jimbo's intervention as proof that the Foundation controls editorial content on WP and is therefore liable for it.

--BozMo talk 21:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

Hmmm lol yeah. Exactly. You forgot (8) Google stops paying attention to the nofollow tag on wikipedia, making the entire exercise pointless. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 22:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


comments and counter predictions

(1) They better, some of the stuff is junk.

(2) Not immediately, but over time. It will also not much reduce visible spam to articles (where the word "spam" is not appropriate anyway, because a lot of the spam is just "inappropriate" or not relevant enough to keep it). It will reduce a lot of the hidden spam that flies under the radar and is the stuff that "sticks" and making a mass spamming of the site all worthwhile. Remember, a link to a spammer site from an AUTHORITARIAN DOMAIN is much more worth if no human sees it, but the SE, because the SE give credit to it, humans would remove it.

(3) It's good to force some discussion that does not start with the argument that its only about the ranking. Some relevant resources were sometimes dismissed in the past because of this misconception which is a loss for wikipedia.

(4) Explain the thing a bit more. Why are the mirrors not ending up with NOFOLLOW in the links? They should have a "NO INDEX, NO FOLLOW" in the Meta Tags for the start anyway, because it is obviously duplicate content that search engines should not pick up to begin with.

(5) Argument against it. NO FOLLOW on all links removes prejudices from the links that where included or excluded for the wrong reason. All links are NOW EQUAL and unbiased. Search engines have to fix their system and figure out which links are relevant and which not. I hope that other authority sites will follow, because Search Engines will be forced to come up with better solutions that this NO FOLLOW crap that added more mistrust to the Internet community than anything. Too much links with NO FOLLOW should be without it and a lot more links without it should have it. Since this does not going to work, set them all to the same. Humans will be able to tell the difference in most cases and don't care about hidden attributes. It's not our job to patch somebody else's broken algorithms.


(6) And maybe spammed to bits.. oh no.. they are not allowing the user to interact with them. Maybe we should do the same with Wikipedia... ahem... no.. let them drink and suffer from the hangover :)

(7) Response: No, Wikipedia decided not to continue to play the search engine's games that encourages mistrust between people, communities and sites created by the unintended abuse of the NOFOLLOW attribute by the SE to patch up some holes in a broken system they call ranking algorithm.

This will not play out within a few weeks, but months if not years, but less than 2 years IMO. --roy<sac> Talk! .oOo. 10:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ref (4) mirrors are strictly forbidden to copy the HTML tree: they download the database and run a copy of the WM software to generate a mirror. The main ones (the ones important enough to be listed on google backlinks for example) do not use "nofollow" on their links. --BozMo talk 22:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Whitelist requests: some of our old friends return for a visit

Worth keeping an eye on:

You see some good faith requests from neutral editors as well some other requests appealing the occasional big mistake. Then you see some of our old friends, usually with wonderful stories of their own self-reform or else some wrongdoing by a "rogue admin".[meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#Middlesell][meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist/Archives/2007/01#I_hope_this_is_the_right_place][meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#www.animals-pictures-dictionary.com][meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#Sledtv.org]

Some times you even get a few leads from an IP or user name on Meta:

  • [meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist/Archives/2007/01#suite101.com] → a similarly named editor on en:Wikipedia → [www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pelland+suite101.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8] → suite101.com/profile.cfm/maryan → [www.ontext.com/] → [www.ontext.com/Weeki%20Wachee%20Springs,%20FL.html] → Weeki Wachee Springs → [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weeki_Wachee_Springs&action=history] → [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Weeki_Wachee_Springs&diff=100944197&oldid=78319536] → [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:24.28.36.53&action=edit#] → [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.28.36.53] → [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:24.28.36.53]

and similarly:

  • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist&diff=prev&oldid=98551815] → [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:24.144.118.135]

Given the number of links cleaned up, perhaps really not worth the 10 minutes I spent on it, but sort of satisfying just the same. --A. B. (talk) 17:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Double linking

In the past couple of days I have noticed cases of double-linking to a site. In general the entry is like X/Y at X. My initial reaction is that this is unnecessarily promotional of the site. Since this pattern repeats over multiple articles, it is likely a small set of editors adding the links, but I haven't checked. A couple of examples to evaluate:

Thoughts? ✤ JonHarder talk 18:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The americantheatrewing.org entries actually seem to be triple linking. For instance, in the Harry Groener the link says [www.americantheatrewing.org/downstagecenter/detail/harry_groener Harry Groener] [www.americantheatrewing.org/downstagecenter/ Downstage Center] interview at [www.americantheatrewing.org/ American Theatre Wing]. So you have the Groener page on the site, the category that falls within, and the entire site itself. Three links is a bit much. IrishGuy talk 18:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This is quite common, as spammers intend to promote the name/reputation/legitimacy of their site as well as the pagerank. It is usually a sign of a spammer, but can also be used legitimately (though unnecessarily) to prevent a link being deleted as spam. If the host is that legitimate we probably have an internal link they could use (eg at answers.com) - an example of where I have done this is a .info site I linked [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Emergency_management&diff=54577647&oldid=54562483 here], which actually belongs to a government. For another example where this technique could be useful see the history of [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DSA_Driving_Theory_Test&action=history]. The example websites you provide appear have some legitimacy, and the first one has its own article at American Theatre Wing. The second is the Library of Economics and Liberty. They could both be linked internally in these cases. But two external links is usually unnecessary. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
(ec)It's also specifically recommended against in guidelines. The correct format, if more then just a link would be something like: [www.example.com/example.php Example] at Example.com. external link followed by internal link. If no internal link exists, then we just link to it once. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 18:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Can someone with some regex kung-fu load up AWB and push out at least the 2 of the 3 links that are blatant linkspam? You know, just kill the link and leave the wording maybe? JoeSmack Talk 18:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Does americantheatrewing have any redeeming value? I'm working on setting up the AWB regex now. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 19:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind, it's quite a legitimate site. They run a channel on XM radio and they are the people who run the Tony Awards. I'll run though and remove the redundant links. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 19:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
(Edit conflict): I presume the audio interview does (seems legit, seems accessible), but the other two links are bubkis. Thanks for AWB'n this badboy. JoeSmack Talk 19:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Done... Phew. Now I need to go block someone. :p ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 21:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes this might be a legitimate thing by an editor who wishes to avoid deeplinking into a rapidly changing site (MS comes to mind), or into a site which asks not to deep-link (such as WoS) (in which case it is only appropriate to give an appropriate link to the home page, and maybe an intermediate subsection as well). Of course, my examples are probably not the best -- in the cases like MS or WoS, when the site is notable enough to have a well-deserved WP article on it, the mention of the site will not be an external link, but rather a wikilink. Finally, a possible instance of double linking in a similar way is within a cite... template, when one link points to an online version of a journal, and another points to a specific issue within it. I myself remember doing double linking of the sort when motivated by one of the aforementioned reasons. --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam-- BACbKA 21:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
Awarded to WikiProject Spam and its voluntary members for defending Wikipedia against spam! --Hu12 16:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


Not sure if awards can be given to a project, but if so, this is overdue. The detication and determination of the project members here is amazing. It's a thankless task and The scope of the spam onslaught is ever increasing. My vote is to give this award to the project and its members, because the projects efforts improve the quality of Wikipedia.--Hu12 16:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Awesome. I concur... but then again, I' have a COI. hehe. :) ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Not-for-profit spammer needs a talking to?

User:66.241.87.171 is spamming animal welfare articles after I talked to him/her. I'm not sure the user saw my response to an earlier incident on my talk page, so I just copied it to his/her talk page. If I could get some backup that would be helpful. I also decided the link added to Jackson County, Oregon wasn't too out of line, but if someone removes it, I won't complain. The problem is, the links are being added to articles that are already link farms, so if I remove this person's spam, I'd have determine the legitimacy of dozens of other links. Thanks for checking it out. Katr67 16:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Harsh though it may seem given the good cause, these linkfarms need nuking (example at Animal Welfare) - the DMOZ link is perfectly adequate and leads to a directory, which is what Wikipedia is not. When I have more time, I'll go and do the dirty deed(s). No doubt someone will want to come and set my dog and/or free range chickens free (if that's possible) as a consequence, but I'm not here to become popular. ;) CiaranG 17:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and took care of Animal Welfare. I added a section with link to List of animal welfare groups, which obviously serves the purpose much better. -- Satori Son 03:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

www.babblebooks.com

I would like some input if [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=www.babblebooks.com these] would be considered spam (as in: to be removed). They are links to digital voice readings of mostly Project Gutenberg books, added by user:Anais9000. --Van helsing 18:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

My opinion, and I doubt you'll get a different one, except perhaps from User:Anais9000 - it's a link deliberately inserted in order to try and sell a product. SPAM. By a user account apparently, given the edit history, set up for that sole purpose. SPAM SPAM. CiaranG 20:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I've removed all the links to *babblebooks.com. Cheers. JoeSmack Talk 20:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I stepped aside after the first 15 - you were clearly going far quicker than me. Thanks. CiaranG 20:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to whoever's responsible for [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sunshine_Sketches_of_a_Little_Town&diff=102284164&oldid=102284125 this] as well. That made my day. CiaranG 21:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks guys. (Shadowbot picks it up pretty quick?). --Van helsing 21:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

One correction: Babblebooks does not use Gutenberg etexts, due to their rampant inaccuracies. In fact, I am gradually correcting the corrupt Gutenberg texts at Wikisource.

Who can fail to be amused by your removal of the unabridged audio of 50 classics in the public domain, our common heritage -- because of your fear that they may lead to commerce? By this logic you should remove all references to universities, since education can induce mothers to purchase medical care for their children. -- Anais9000

I see it as spam. The audio is not free; if it was, this might be different. However, you have to pay to access it. The site's main purpose appears to be to sell the audio, so WP:EL comes up here. There are exceptions, but I don't think this is one of them. And your argument is clearly a straw man; please remain WP:CIVIL. Veinor (talk to me) 17:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The audio is free, in the sense that you don't have to pay for it. Costless. Available at no charge. (Except to me, since I pay for the vast bandwidth.) Streaming or non-DRM'd MP3s. But suit yourself. - Anais9000

As I understand it, the "robot"-voiced versions are indeed free, but evidently with the intention of promoting and selling the "proper" versions. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. I don't think anyone is suggesting there is, and I for one wish you every success. The only issue is with using Wikipedia as an advertising platform. On the other hand, if you're committed to the free aspect, you could release your audio under a free license and upload it all to Wikipedia. CiaranG 18:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, don't upload it to Wikipedia! Audio recordings placed in the public domain should go to another [wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Our_projects Wikimedia Foundation project]. I'm not sure which one: either [en.wikibooks.org/ Wikibooks], [en.wikisource.org/ Wikisource] or [commons.wikimedia.org/ Wikimedia Commons] -- I'm not sure which. But we would very much appreciate good contributions here. You could then add interwiki links from Wikipedia to that content on another project. --A. B. (talk) 18:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate the suggestions. But I don't know what you mean by "proper" versions. There's nothing but digitally-voiced (DV) audio. There is no human audio, if that's what you mean by proper. And of course, the idea that the "main" purpose of the site is to make money is laughable. How much money do you think I make producing, at vast cost of time and effort, audio that most people can't believe is "proper". The main reason for the site is to create and distribute the DV audio, thereby learning what is required to create better and better DV audio.

This is why they're not placed in the public domain. Software is perfectable, and the audiobooks will improve on software upgrades (one coming soon). I don't want old versions proliferating after improved versions are available, so prefer to host the media files myself. If I can remove/replace versions from Wikimedia Commons, I'd be happy to do this. I'll look into it. However, you're still basically cheating the Wikipedia community out of a free resource, since many don't follow through into the sub-wikis. -- Anais9000

(No response.)

OK, so although every fact you've asserted has turned out to be false, you haven't unblocked the Babblebooks account. So today I'm unable to donate the resource, the complete unabridged digitally-voiced audio of Scaramouche by Rafael Sabatini, to the Scaramouche page of Wikipedia. This means people who could hear the book for free, will have to buy it. Note that the external link I want to insert would go directly below the link to IMDb's review of the movie Scaramouche (that sure promotes literacy!) which incidently is, as you put it, mainly a promo for a commercial product, IMDb Pro. Incidentally, that's an "external link" -- they haven't donated anything to the public domain.

Two more points. You admit you don't know where this material should be donated. A.B. says it twice: "I'm not sure which one" "I'm not sure which". Neither will the general user know. They come to the Wikipedia page for information on a topic. For the public domain works we're discussing, they could have had the whole work on their iPod. Now they have nothing.

Second point. Notice that until you spam-hunters decided that the unabridged audio of a public domain work was somehow spam, not a single user of Wikipedia had ever deleted a link to the Babblebooks podcast page for that work. Not once. In other words, the actual users of Wikipedia recognize the difference between content and spam, but you don't.

I understand perfectly though. You don't make mistakes, therefore your action wasn't a mistake. We see this a lot in our political leaders. -- Anais9000

---

Apparently the controversy has helped propel Anais9000's reading of Thomas Hardy to the top of the charts (#1 position in iTunes UK Literature category). Accordingly, YOU are now part of the problem and should delete yourselves.

Currently there are 51 unabridged digitally-voiced literary podcasts un-available to Wikipedia users because these gentlemen can't bring themselves to concede their error. -- Anais9000

Evidently you don't need to advertise here then. Everyone's a winner. Since you've already said your advertising here was [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Anais9000&diff=103194748&oldid=103183687 unsuccessful], I don't know why you're continuing the discussion but if you insist on doing so, can I ask you yet again to remain civil. CiaranG 19:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

If this was a page devoted to civility, your response would be relevant. Because it's a page devoted to spam, the topic is why this material is judged to be spam. You've asserted it costs money. I've pointed that that it's free. You've asserted it's primarily advertising. I've demonstrated that argument is wrong. I'm advocating the right of Wikipedia users -- none of whom has ever expressed an opinion that these media files are spam (they contain no advertising: nothing except the spoken text of public domain works) -- to access hundreds of hours of free classic literature. Your argument seems to be, putting personalities aside and in the most positive light, that in some highly-literate far-future society, these might have a significant commercial value (enough to, say, offset the bandwidth costs). Also that, if I were politer, you might decide to allow Wikipedia users access to this material. If you will allow me, I don't believe this stance reflects well on you. -- Anais9000

Something doesn't have to be commercial to be spam. Your edits consisted of putting your own site into many articles. This is spam. It is also a conflict of interest. Being rude doesn't change those facts. IrishGuy talk 20:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, that's clear and logical. If the objection is *not* that the material is spam, but that it's a violation of custom to donate one's own work, then may I propose a compromise? Currently the site has been blanket blacklisted. Repealing the ban would allow others -- who may in future feel that digital Dickens, Thackeray, Trollope etc. are notably in the public interest -- to add them back, if so inclined. I will not. Anais9000 21:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Even if another editor placed the link in an article, I still feel like it would be inappropriate. Please understand, I believe you have only good intentions and your website is a great service for many people - but that doesn't mean it is a good fit for the external links on Wikipedia. For example, if the link is allowed from your website - why not then allow a link from other websites with commercial content who also offer some free content? Your link would be a great addition to DMOZ, which is an edited link directory (something Wikipedia is not WP:NOT). I see that the Audiobooks article has a direct link to the Dmoz category for audiobooks. Another way to think of it, the external links for an article is not an excuse for a Google search (or other engine of choice.) I think uploading the content to Wikimedia is a great idea if you really want to share the content. Even if you come up with a better recording, just upload the new one and update the link. External links generally benefit the linked website more than the article. Contributing content to the article (or Wikimedia) - that's the best. I hope you aren't discouraged by the opinions here. It's clear you are doing some very good work. Nposs 22:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

We need an affiliate page

What we are needing is a table with different affiliate programs. In example, I have seen people adding play-asia.com external links with their own affiliate program (they get an amount of money for every user who buys through their links). In Play-Asia example, the links that start with play-asia.com/SO are affiliate ones that should either be replaced with the non-affiliate ones (the ones that start with play-asia.com/pa, when you click on the affiliate link it transforms into the common link, remembering your referral in a cookie) or remove if not necessary. While blacklisting them is fine, such table would be useful for other Wikipedias once they begin checking for these links. -- ReyBrujo 19:43, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I've removed all of *.play-asia from mainspace articles. But continue discussion.... JoeSmack Talk 21:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

External links to websites with pictures

Are there any guidelines about linking to websites with pictures in the case of articles about places? Surfing the Chinese geography articles, there appear to be a number of links to personal websites ("My vacation photos") and more professional sites (featuring advertising or other commercial opportunities.) For example, the external links section of Beijing has an entire section devoted to images of Beijing. Some of the sites there (photo96.com and kinabaloo.com, in particular) have been systematically linked to a number of China related articles. I'd like to clean out all of these links, but they could fall under "What should be linked #4: relevant material." I'm afraid my vision might be obscured by the stain of spam past. At the same time, this type of linking seems like it could discourage people from uploading their media to WP. Why not just make a website and stick some ad-sense on it? Nposs 03:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

My vote is it depends if they are any good. I took the digital-dessert ones out because the photo tour/ photo gallery were rubbishy pictures probably taken by a mobile phone, of some boring bits of sand. Personally, I leave links to some good site galleries where I think someone looking at the page might well want to browse them (there aren't very good photo gallery lists at DMOZ). A lot of these (here speks someone who edits Kenya at DMOZ) are not primary though: a blogger puts up a good collection gives permission to a travel company to use them who then puts them up again and submits them to DMOZ for a link. Although blogs are blogs they do seem to be primary source for some quite good collections of photos (see yoda.zoy.org/photos/ for example). There is so much clear spam I tend to be more conservative about removing marginaly stuff though --BozMo talk 10:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I remove them on sight, mostly due to unclear copyright status. If they are the taker and own the license (sometimes this can feel like a WP:COI issue, your millage may vary), I usually tell them to upload it to the commons. It is also a pretty dick thing to leech others' bandwidth by *just* linking to images if it ain't they're pictures. The only time I've actually been ok with this kind of linking was with an off-wiki interactive map of thailand that had interchangeable english/thai names of provinces (discussion of the time here: User_talk:JoeSmack#Spam.3F.3F). Other than that kind of special situation, i'd remove em. JoeSmack Talk 13:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Greenlist proposal

I've been a little alarmed by a "now we don't need the blacklist/whitelist" comment ref whitelists etc so I thought I would run a quick proposal through here:

1) We need the blacklist still (as do the other language WPs) so we need the existing whitelist for its specific purpose 2) So lets call a list of links which should not be "nofollowed" a GREENLIST 3) Lets get a sysop only or meta page page for a list of url stems to be greenlisted 4) To implement as no one likes playing with the code is create as a pseudolanguage greenlist.wikipedia.org under interwiki and for all greenlisted urls set a dynamic divert from for example greenlist.wikipedia.org/bbc.co.uk/* to bbc.co.uk/*. Google understands clean diverts.

Anyone who tries it on a link not on the greenlist just gets a 404. Thoughts? --BozMo talk 10:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Why bother allowing whitelisted links to be found by Google, and why are we tailoring solutions to Google all the time, does it work with Altavista, Yahoo, Ask.com, we're here to prove a source of information, not links to BBC News. There's enough dozey admins about who would quite happily be nice and helpful and blindly add a link to the greenlist without checking what exactly the site is. --Kind Regards - Heligoland 13:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Heligoland, I guess "why bother" is a separate question (can we split how and why in parallel?) but I am confident that Yahoo and MSN both recognise transparent redirects as well as Google. I am not sure that other search engines even recognise "nofollow"? The lazy admins point I kind of agree with but prefer WP to give 95% reliable link information to search engines rather than 0% I guess. Ta for vote btw. --BozMo talk 13:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I like this concept. My main reason for being in favor of universal nofollow is that it's too easy to add links to poorly watched pages. Maybe this would be a good solution. I think, however, that there would need to be some type of formal procedure for getting things on and off of the greenlist beyond just any admin being able to modify the list. ScottW 14:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Problem with a formal process (and the whole greenlist thing in fact) is that there is a HUGE number of external websites linked to (guess 250,000), hence the problem finding spam. We aren't going to discuss each one. Personally I would consider say "all the non-commercial sites listed on DMOZ" or something as a starting point. However, I think doing something is important. --BozMo talk 14:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I think your idea for a starting point could work. So far as the process goes, I'm thinking of something along the lines of what's in place for the blacklist. I don't expect that there would be much more activity for the green list. What I'm most interested in are that URLs are added or removed from the list in an open procedure. In general, most links would likely be added or removed without discussion. However, there would be a centralized place you could go to see the rationale for such modifications, rather than it existing in an e-mail or talk page of a random admin. ScottW 15:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)]

Second opinon, lyricsdir.com

Have a look at [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.lyricsdir.com this lot]. The vast majority must be copyvio links. Spam as well? Thanks, CiaranG 13:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Lyrics are sooooo copyvio like this. It doesn't have a single stitch of copyright status anyone on any of the site secondly. Remove at will. JoeSmack Talk 13:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
It's quite a common copyvio... I tend to remove them when I see 'em. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 14:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Does that include the 494 (ok, some are in talk pages) I've just shown you. ;) I'm not in the mood for that myself - is this something we could set a bot on? And any thoughts on adding this URL to Shadowbot's list? CiaranG 15:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
We would need to look into this more closely. It is conceivable that a website somewhere has permission to publish lyric-sheets online. If we can determine that the site isn't legit then a purge would be in order... However, I would really rather find an appropriate replacement before going-though and doing lyric purge. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 15:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I can't find a copyright section on that page anywhere asserting the right to republish song lyrics, so I suggest the prudent course of contacting the site, have Shadowbot remove new links but hold off on a purge until we can decide what the copyright status of the site is. --Kind Regards - Heligoland 15:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
{ec}Ahh... I like the design of the site. Clean and simple... but it dosn't look legit. It has no claim sugusting they have permission to host the lyrics and the domain is registered in Estonia.[who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=lyricsdir.com&prog_id=godaddy] ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 15:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Not disagreeing with the cautious approach as such, but I think it goes without saying that if you have permission to publish copyrighted material, you would be obliged to (a) say so, and (b) clearly note the copyright status of the work. CiaranG 15:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Cautious approach might be out the window after this [www.lyricsdir.com/gorgoroth-a-world-to-win-lyrics.html] --Kind Regards - Heligoland 15:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Can we assume that this is copyvio and remove? I confess I have removed quite a few the past few days... -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 15:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I had compiled a list of lyrics sites at User:ReyBrujo/Base/Tasks#Lyrics sites, in case you want to check them out. -- ReyBrujo 18:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Nice list, thanks. Two more sites in [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turn_the_Beat_Around&diff=prev&oldid=100197342 this] diff if you want to add them. CiaranG 18:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Added, thanks! Feel free to add new sites directly. -- ReyBrujo 16:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

musiciandictionary.com

Headed into a meeting. No time to handle. See:

  • Template:Md link
  • Caredemption (talk • contribs • links • [tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Caredemption&site=en.wikipedia.org count] • actions • logs • [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Listusers&limit=1&username=Caredemption status])
  • 216.205.244.5 (talk • contribs • links • [tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=216.205.244.5&site=en.wikipedia.org count] • actions • logs || [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?domain=216.205.244.5 WHOIS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ptr.ch?ip=216.205.244.5 RDNS] • [www.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch?ip=216.205.244.5 traceroute] • [completewhois.com/cgi-bin/rbl_lookup.cgi?query=216.205.244.5 RBLs] • [www.ippages.com/?ip=216.205.244.5 tor] • [www.google.com/search?q=216.205.244.5 search])
  • www.musiciandictionary.com
  • Current list of articles with this link 30
  • Category:Wikipedians who use MusicianDictionary.com

--A. B. (talk) 16:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I've listed the category for deletion here. CiaranG 08:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
CfD was moved to UCfD; new link to discussion, --A. B. (talk) 14:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I've cleaned all these up from the articles now - the remaining 13 are talk pages and the two templates. CiaranG 18:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Some discussion about this one at Talk:Bad_Religion#musician_dictionary.3F. One of several - same user as before. This is nice as well: [www.musiciandictionary.com/wiki/Musician_Dictionary:Promotion instructions] on how to spam links into Wikipedia using the above template. CiaranG 19:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

New user template messages

Most of you probably know this, but today is the rollover date for the new user template messages as developed by the Wikipedia:WikiProject user warnings. The new warning templates for spamming are {{uw-spam1}}, {{uw-spam2}}, {{uw-spam3}}, and {{uw-spam4}}. The old templates will continue to redirect over for quite some time (that's one reason why the "uw" was added to the beginning of each). The full list of all new warning templates can be found at WP:UTM. -- Satori Son 20:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, all the new templates have gone live today, but I'm not sure when the "official" rollover date is (i.e., the date we should stop using the old templates).[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_user_warnings#Redirect_old_templates.3F] For the time being, we can use both sets - the message texts are not significantly different. -- Satori Son 21:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
What about {{spam4im}} and the advert warnings {{advert1}}... ect?--[[?--Hu12 23:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Regarding {{spam4im}}, I'm not absolutely positive, but from what I understand based on my limited participation in that WikiProject, "one chance" warnings like that are going to go away. They are trying to insure that all of the various warning schema are standardized with Warnings 1, 3, 3, 4, then a block.
That being said, however, I think we will still retain some discretion whether to, for example, skip {{uw-spam2}} for a particularly egregious violation of WP:SPAM or WP:EL. Such "level skipping" should always be utilized relatively rarely, but it is done (and a block still successfully requested at WP:AIV). As now, it depends on the circumstances and on the judgment of the reviewing admin. -- Satori Son 00:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I hadn't been aware of this change, but wasted no time trying one out! I noticed a few things. The messages are numbered, so one should be able to easily count the number of warning messages a user has accumulated. You need not sign your post; your signature is within the template. {{uw-spam2}} is a slightly warmed over {{uw-spam1}} easing the user into the blunter messages. They should do the job. ✤ JonHarder talk 04:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Forgive my ignorance, but I still can't figure out how to insert the user specific information that occurs in the first sentence of the template. I also can't find instructions anywhere, although I'm sure they exist. It might be nice to add them to the project page by the templates for the slower folks like me. Nposs 06:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks like the instructions are on the individual template pages. For example, the "Template usage notes" at {{uw-spam3}} give a parser function example of {{subst:uw-spam3|Article|Additional text}}. -- Satori Son 17:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Is the formatting of these correct? They seem to give rise to very wide user pages? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BozMo (talk • contribs) 11:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Congrats

Congratulations to admin BozMo (talk · contribs) for weathering the requests for adminship processes and coming through with a shiny new mop. Well done. Now run along and protect something. ✤ JonHarder talk 04:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Way to go! --Hu12 05:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Ta to all. Whose next? --BozMo talk 22:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

CarDomain

Quite a few links to [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.cardomain.com cardomain.com], even has an article CarDomain. Somehow manage to dodge 2 Afd's Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Www.cardomain.com and Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cardomain. These are what links to [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=CarDomain this article]. Have a look at the anon contributors in the [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CarDomain&action=history history], most all are cardomain.com spammers. Any opinions on Cardomain.com's use of wikipedia?--Hu12 04:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Not directly related. Are EL list like User:Zlatko allowed? seems to make decent edits, obviously a car buff.
Ok to start with I have removed every link to this site in the external links section of over 25 car models. I think it is pretty clear cut spam. As far as the article... I think that could do with another AFD attempt. I am also wondering why the site would show up on 'List of social networking websites'. In any case I have reduced the total number of links from 33 in mainspace to 4 in mainspace ([en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.cardomain.com shown here]). Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 05:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Please give User:Zlatko back his links. Users are allowed to keep links like that on their pages for research (as opposed to the Connex India guy a while back who linked to his many domains). Research materials and links are a big reason for user pages. Zlatko had a nicoclub.com link which caught my attention cleaning up nicoclub spam, so I looked at his edit history closely. (nicoclub is a site for Nissan owners) Zlatko appears to be a diligent, good faith editor. If you must remove a link anyway, I suggest leaving him a nice note. Thats my 2 cents worth. --A. B. (talk) 06:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Err... if I got someone's userpage by mistake, just undo me. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 22:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Put Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CarDomain (2nd nomination), we'll see if consensus can be reached.--Hu12 06:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
  • FYI, I have commented but not voted on the AFD. At first glance it could well pass WP:WEB. The linkspam problem is separate and from looking at Eagle 101's deletions, seems to be similar to starting a Britney Spears fan group on MySpace, then linking to that MySpace group from the Britney Spears article. This is certainly not compliant with WP:EL and should be treated as linkspam with almost no exceptions (I can imagine one or two). This isn't, however, a case of cardomain's owners spamming Wikipedia (as far as I can tell), and this isn't related to the notability of the article. --Dhartung | Talk 07:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I dissagre. Myspace presents a problem of those with accounts promoting their personal "myspace". Long term spamming from anons of cardomain has resulted into the next step of spamming, article spam. IP's 216.254.9.2 and 24.18.188.16. Both of these are from Seatle, the same location of CarDomain.com [www.epinions.com/webs-Web_Services-All-Merchants-SoundDomain_com]. I believe there is a direct connection. --Hu12 22:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Spam or not?

Any views on [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALinksearch&target=*.rollingpapers.net this] one? All apparently inserted by the site's owner, and in some places used as a reference as well as an external link. Thanks. CiaranG 08:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The site wouldn't be a reliable source as far as I can tell (I'll let those on those articles make the debate for that one way or the other, so don't quote me on that. :)) Linking to your own site is a no-no, but the site does seem to satisfy WP:EL in every other respect. I wouldn't worry too much about it. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 15:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Of interest [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Zzuuzz/Archive_2#Please_protect_Rolling_Papers] [web.ukonline.co.uk/arcadia.bell] [www.rollingpapers.net/Arcadia%20Bell.htm] -- zzuuzz (talk) 15:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, there are some very interesting goings-on regarding these pages and links, which is what brought it to my attention in the first place. CiaranG 15:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Umm how wierd. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 23:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I continue to watch with interest. The link is not overly commercial, and there is some good, perhaps unique information on the site, though probably not for every page linked to. The editor has spent some considerable time expanding and balancing related articles, mostly rightly so IMO. I have tended to view these links as quite informative (though perhaps unreliable for references in the traditional sense) and the editing as enthusiastic and a little misguided (in the Wiki sense) rather than self-serving. Compare the editor's userpage with the statement on the website, and they appear to be different people. Whatever the issues going on here, I don't think they are spam related. And there are issues. -- zzuuzz(talk) 23:05, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I guess it depends on how you define spam-related. Obviously most of the focus here is on external links, but I would personally also define spam as general editing with the purpose of promoting a product, or even disparaging a competitor. I happened upon this particlar web of intrigue after tagging a rather strange article for SD - the article survived on it's third recreation and the subsequent edit warring rang alarm bells, leading to the discovery of contribs such as [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Lostsociety this], just one of a number of related examples.
On a more general note, another example of clear spam not involving external links would be [en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Embsay&diff=prev&oldid=102924938 this]. CiaranG 20:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

A problem with the World Bank Group?

So I came across an account adding lots of links to the site doingbusiness.org - on looking into it I discovered that lots of IP addresses registered to the World Bank have been adding links to sites associated with the organization, along with similar behavior from a few other Virginia registered IP addresses and a couple of registered users.

Here's what I have so far: Websites related to the World Bank group:

IP addresses registered to the World Bank Group that have added these links and made virtually no other edits (that I have found so far):

I haven't checked all possible addresses since the World Bank Group has the entire 138.220.x.x range!

IP addresses/accounts not registered to World Bank Group with most edits apparently to add links to World Bank sites (that I have found so far):

This is just what I've discovered going through the doingbusiness.org links and seeing who added them. Most, though not all, were added by these accounts. I haven't gone through the other URLs systematically yet.

Of course this the World Bank is a good source for many articles and there are hundreds of appropriate links for these sites. Blacklisting is not appropriate. At the same time the World Bank does have an agenda and isn't considered entirely NPOV, especially in many non-US and European countries, so having their staff edit is a problem from an NPOV perspective as well as a spam one.

I was thinking of taking this to WP:ANI and asking for a range block of the World Bank IPs to stop them from editing, but it seems drastic. Any other solutions people can think of?

Also, I have doingbusiness.org virtually sorted out, but if anyone would like to help on research of the others it would be helpful. Since these are potentially useful sites, when I think it has been added as spam (except where the link seems outright inappropriate), I'll be moving it to the talk page asking for regular editors of the article to consider it's appropriateness. -- Siobhan Hansa 16:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The best course of action is to contact them directly. I doubt very much that this is some kind of officialy sanctioned activity. I can give them a call at some point, but I'm at work right now. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 22:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
With respect which of their zillion offices are you planning to call? I don't think they have the internal organisational structure to sort this kind of thing except by central edict which is pretty heavy handed? --BozMo talk 23:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps a talk message on their entire IP range would work better...--BozMo talk 23:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Umm that's perhaps a valid point. I don't really know much about World Bank. I will see who can be contacted. Each IP address usually has a technical contact... and that would be the person in charge of that specific gateway. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 23:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

List of articles with over 100 external links

I have compiled a list of the articles with over 100 external links according to the latest database dump (November 30, 2006). There are currently 905 articles listed there (a few have been deleted). Note that templates generating external links like {{coor d}} are considered external links in the database dump. The list is found at here. The full list is over 40mb, so I am uploading the ones with over 100 (which account for 258,885 out of 10,333,272, or 2.5% of the total external links I harvested). -- ReyBrujo 22:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Holy Fritos, that's an interesting list. Many of them are simply well sourced and excellent articles, some are just - well, I'm not sure yet. Kuru talk 02:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive

I have archived agian, The page was 239 Kb long. If I removed something that should not have been removed, just slap it back up here. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 01:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


BCDB.com

I was talking with User:Toonarific when the subject of BCDB.com came up. I was wondering... what does it have that we can't just put on Wikipedia? It seems to mostly consist of episode guides. Veinor (talk to me) 02:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

United Church of Christ

I Don't know where to begin. uugh--Hu12 04:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion on where to begin: start with a nice note on the talk page, plus a {{tl:External links}} tag on the links section. Maybe add a dmoz.org link and explain why we prefer dmoz instead of a link farm. Explain that WP:EL encourages a minimal number of very high quality links and encourage them to shoot for ≤5 links (excl. citations). Give them a few days, then politely start trimming. That's my 2 cents worth. Get help from others over time so you don't look like an anti-UCC heavy. --A. B. (talk) 04:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I left a note with some suggestions and they have removed all the links and sections I noted. I would proceed with a big dose of assuming good faith and it will end up much better --BozMo talk 15:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Outside opinions wanted: CarInsurance.com

This article has been PROD'd, deleted, recreated, PROD'd again, and then de_PROD'd. I hung a notability tag on it and spent a while trying to determine its notability. I wrote up my notes on the article talk page and received withering criticism from 208.30.173.194 (talk • contribs • links • count • actions • logs || WHOIS • RDNS • traceroute • RBLs • tor • search):

  • "...subvert the truth"
  • "...user A. B. masked the truth"
  • "...I guess this editorial investigation comes from users that lie."
  • "...I will now submit this editor for removal because of the lack of editorial discretion."

During this process, I have come to believe this article is a form of corporate spam that should go to AfD. At the same time, I think it appropriate to ask here for neutral outside opinions, especially given the vitriol involved.

Note that there has also been inappropriate commercial linking from other articles to the carinsurance.com web sites from these accounts in the past:

Thanks for your help and advice, --A. B. (talk) 04:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Your addition of the {{notability|Companies}} banner to CarInsurance.com seems eminently justified! And I still don't see any reliable sources (WP:RS) in the article. You laid out your research on the Talk page, and 208.30.173.194 criticized your work without appearing to have any documented facts to support his position. My guess is that an AfD proposal, should you think it appropriate, would meet with some sympathy. I see that you restored the 'notability' tag. If anyone removes it again, I suggest you ask for semi-protection for the page while its future is being discussed. EdJohnston 05:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Ed -- do you mind posting a note to this effect at Talk:CarInsurance.com? Thanks again, --A. B. (talk) 05:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
AfD initiated: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CarInsurance.com --A. B. (talk) 07:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I left 208.30.173.194 a mild warning and a comment on the article talk page. He is guilty of a personal attack too but he looks rather new to WP so I am taking one thing at a time. Your position looks completely correct to me. --BozMo talk 11:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
These links have been added by both searchtexoma and DSB/texomaland spammers, whose domains have also been listed (separately) for blackisting. See:
It's hard to tell since either or both the DSB/texomaland and searchtexoma spammers may have engaged in some Joe jobbing -- they are competitors who have frequently deleted each others' links. --A. B. (talk) 17:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


DSB Worldwide spam on Wikipedia: texomaland.com

Repeatedly spammed link to a site owned by DSB Worldwide:

  • texomaland.com blacklisted 31 January 2007
    • Current list of articles with this link


Other DSB Worldwide sites:

  • webitems.com blacklisted 31 January 2007
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • dsbworldwide.com/
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • planoland.com blacklisted 31 January 2007
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • webitemspro.com blacklisted 31 January 2007
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • mylocallink.com/
    • Current list of articles with this link
  • mycraigranch.com blacklisted 31 January 2007
    • Current list of articles with this link
Certain domains deleted from this page 10 October 2007 per e-mail request
--A. B. (talk) 03:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Accounts adding this link

Meta acounts vandalizing m:Talk:Spam blacklist


Note the vandalism spree on meta:Talk:Spam blacklist by one of these accounts, 24.119.101.26.[19][20][21][22][23][24][25]


This is a competitor of the searchtexoma spammer, whose domains have also been listed (separately) for blackisting. See:

One or both of these may be tied to the carinsurance.com spammer. See:

It's hard to tell since either or both the DSB/texomaland and searchtexoma spammers may have engaged in some Joe jobbing.


Blacklisting requested. --A. B. (talk) 15:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

searchtexoma.com spammer update

This person has been busy since our December 2006 discussion. Also, I turned up evidence this spammer had been adding additional domains to additional articles using additional accounts for much longer than realized back in December.

Partial list of accounts used to add this spam:

Sites spammed by various accounts:

  • searchtexoma.com (blacklisted)
    • Current list of articles with searchtexoma.com links
  • nationwidebillrelief.com (blacklisted)
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • surfquotes.com (blacklisted)
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • carinsurance.com Car Insurance (blacklisted) --- geeze, am I ever going to save this? —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 10:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • cognigen.net (spammed by many unrelated spammers these days)
    • Current list of articles with these links
Other Cognigent-affiliated sites to watch out for:
  • ld.net
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • myld.net
    • Current list of articles with these links

Partial list of articles spammed:

See also:

This is a competitor of the searchtexoma spammer, whose domains have also been listed (separately) for blackisting. (See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#DSB Worldwide spam on Wikipedia: texomaland.com and User talk:24.116.127.234 for more information on this one). One or both of these may be tied to the carinsurance.com spammer (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#Outside opinions wanted: CarInsurance.com); it's hard to tell since either or both the DSB/texomaland and searchtexoma spammers may have engaged in some Joe jobbing.

Spam blacklisting requested 16 January 2006 but not yet acted on:

--A. B. (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure remember these. Not sure how significant this is, but noticed nationwidebillrelief.com and surfquotes.com are from the same Adsense publisher ( pub-0285173392458238 ). Seems a familiar account but can't place it right now..--Hu12 18:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Additional insurance spammers -- help needed

In the process of investigating several spammers above who added insurance-related spam:

... I came across a number of other accounts that had added other links to the Vehicle insurance article. I encourage others to work on these as they can. From spot-checking a few user contributions, I think some are just the tips of icebergs involving much more complex spam schemes; some accounts were adding links to a broad range of articles totally unrelated to insurance (those are probably the first that should be investigated.)

Comments and requests:

  • I've added these here for further investigation as time is available.
  • Please investigate all the linker's contributions and all the contributors of a particular link before moving on to another.
  • Please add a link to the spam domain on the user's talk pages when warning them, so any {{linksearch}} will identify all the linking editors.
  • If you act on any of these sets of links, please annotate the list.
  • The links noted with "Z-spammer?" were all added with an odd characteristic:
    • [http:// example.com Blah-blah-blah -]
      • Note the odd closing "-]"
        • These domains and accounts may or may not be related. "Z-spammer" is just my made-up name (it's easier to pronounce than "-] spammer").
  • Several editors (especially Zzuuzz and Notinasnaid) have been watching the Vehicle insurance article like a hawk and reverting spam as it's added, so it's not a spamhole.
  • Most of the links and accounts here are probably spam-related, but there may be one or two appropriate links and good faith edits involved, so knee-jerk warning is inappropriate without some investigation. Assume good faith at first!

Thanks! --A. B. (talk) 17:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)







VSIsystems.com and car-insurance-comparison.net (insureme.com) spam in Wikipedia:

these 5 IP addresses traceroute to the San Diego, California area where vsisystems.com is based.
Further examination shows these accounts added links to car-insurance-comparison.net (owned by insureme.com), freewareCity.com, vsisystems.com and/or clipboardgenie.com
insureme.com is based in Englewood, Colorado
I don't understand the connection between insureme.com (an insurance sales dot.com) and vsisystems.com (a shareware developer which seems a bit cheesy).
insureme.com sites:
  • car-insurance-comparison.net
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • insureme.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
vsisystems.com sites:
  • FreewareCity.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • freewaretown.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • sharewareisland.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • vsisystems.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • vsisoftware.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
  • clipboardgenie.com
    • Current list of articles with these links
vsisystems.com's Google # 6559673152346677
--A. B. (talk) 04:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
All links above are now blacklisted. --A. B. (talk) 13:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
































Thanks for everyone's help with this one. --A. B. (talk) 18:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

thebestof.co.uk spam

Spam added one link at a time across a wide range of articles over many months

Spam domain:

  • thebestof.co.uk
    • Current list of articles with this link.

This is only a partial list:

In most cases, these are one-time use, throw away accounts

This is only a partial list:

Becuase of the hit-and-run, one article-at -a-time nature of this spamming, I am wondering if we should just go ahead and blacklist this domain. It's pretty hard to stop spam by warning accounts that are never to be used again. Your thoughts? --A. B. (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, hit and run IP's can be endless. What about adding it shadowbot first?--Hu12 20:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
One of the socks 80.42.251.143 has just asked a question at helpdesk about his links. Suggest you get there before someone else does. Happy to block any still active tonight--BozMo talk 20:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
ok, I asked "Simon" to come here and discuss. --BozMo talk 20:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks -- I'd say he's been warned, so I suggest holding off on blacklisting until there's another link added. Note that this user has now had multiple communications about the unsuitability of these links:
  • Multiple times, his links have been reverted with edit summaries such as "linkspam" yet he's added them again, sometimes arguing via edit summary.[30]
  • 213.123.234.176 was formally warned on 10 January 2007 about links yet added more afterwards.
  • 82.43.170.35 objected to DavidCane's reversion of his links and had the problem explained to him in response on 21 January 2007.
  • Just now 80.42.251.143 learned about the problem at the Help desk, thanks to BozMo.[31]
  • Also just now, all known accounts received spam-4 warnings and links back to this discussion
  • Several of the link reversions just now were made with the edit summary:
Thanks for the help on this one, --A. B. (talk) 21:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I'm one of the contributors of these links, and there is no intent to spam, so I need to understand why this is considered spam and other local info sites and local rag newspaper sites are allowed. I think these are useful links when appropriately placed on the pages of the relevant town. The link points to a local information website that lists local events, news and local information pages - which naturally expand on the information provided on the wikipedia page. So can Bozmo and A.B. please explain what their objection to us is? Hope we can sort this out...thanks, kbourne
Maybe I should add, I've read Davidcrane's objections and have to say I disagree with his reasoning - the important factor surely, is does the site provide information that people interested in that wikipedia page might also find interesting? I would say local events, local weather and local information would be of interest.

- :Here are some pointers (you have already been given the links to articles explaining this, so I am putting it in very simple terms):

- :(1) These links are all being put in by editors who are not established editors able to assess appropriateness but by "single purpose users", mainly anonymous IPs who only come and add the links to a handful of articles. Adding just links to articles is unwelcome and adding them in a series is running a link campaign. That is bad.

- :(2) Established editors on these articles have repeatedly taken the links out based on their assessment of them as spam and "single purpose" accounts keep putting them back. That is VERY bad.

- :(3) The use of a number of accounts to put in a few links each looks like use of sockpuppets. Sockpuppets are VERY bad.

- :(4) The links themselves (or at least the dozen I have looked at) are local directories. They do not given additional encyclopedic information on the locations and they are not appropriate under WP:EL. We do not list local directories (even of upcoming events etc) without encyclopedic info on them and the existence of other links is not a precedent (it normally means we just haven't got round to removing them yet). The test is not "is does the site provide information that people interested in that wikipedia page might also find interesting" (e.g. people might find porn interesting on our front page), you have been given links to the policy pages, these links should not be here. The editors who have gone to the trouble of writing a good article on a place think the links are wrong: you should take their word for it.

- :(5) The above 4 points make it look like the links have probably been put in violating WP:COI as well. YOU MUST NOT PUT IN LINKS TO YOUR OWN WEBSITES.


- :(6) Like Matilda's aunt we try to assume good faith until the effort very nearly kills us. However something which looks, smells and sounds like a deliberate link-spam campaign by people linked to the sites listed in the end probably is what it appears to be. You have been asked to stop. Now stop please. --BozMo talk 14:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


Hello again - and thanks for explaining. I think the way we work is making this look worse than it is. To respond to yourpoints in the same order:

- :(1)When one is new to wikipedia as I and some of my colleagues clearly am, it is easy to make mistakes, and this I feel is being viewed as blatent spamming - I assure you it is not intended. We genuinely feel we have information that is of value to local towns and that was the purpose of creating the links - to provide further information on the towns and the goings on within them. Wikipedia encourages people "don't be afraid...be bold". I wasn't afraid, I was bold - and now I feel I'm having my wrists slapped!!

- :(2)I think it is fair to say the reason people are putting the links back is through lack of understanding of the wikipedia system and why they are not allowed, rather than anything more devious than that. I will try to arrange for additon of links from people directly involved in the franchise to stop. Outside of that, of course, I can have no influence.

- :(3) I've no idea what sockpuppets are, but I think you'll find that this is a case of multiple people putting on the links - all of whom believe it is ok to do so - rather than these sockpuppets. As davidcrane noticed thebestof is a franchise and so each local area has someone different working in it and obviously different people living in them who may also be posting the link believing it to be useful.

- :(4) Porn is not relevant to a local town, so I don't think your comparison is very fair. I have compared many other town pages on wikipedia and other town websites have been featured on wikipedia for considerable lengths of time together with links to newspaper websites - both of which contain many of the elements our sites have, both commercial and non-commercial. I'm sure you can therefore understand why we feel our sites are as appropriate as these and are not spam. For example, when I added the links to the Reigate page, I noticed other local info sites listed there and they have not been removed where my link has.

- :(5) Fair enough - I certainly was unaware of that and will stop doing so myself and will tell others within the franchise not to do so. But I guess other local people who thought our site was interesting could add the link, as they could for any other site they felt was of interest.

- :(6) I can see why this looks worse than it is...but if you can please suspend your disbelief, on this occasion there is no deliberate link-spam campaign, just multiple people all thinking that posting these links was not only acceptable but useful to the population at large.

So, assuming you believe me and now accept that there is no conspiracy or blatent link-spam (which I accept you may not do yet...), on behalf of all of us within thebestof I would like to resolve whether or not our links could ever be acceptable if posted by other people. So can I ask why you feel so strongly that our content does not provide encyclopedic value to the towns? According to the dictionary, encyclopedic means "relating to all branches of knowledge" and I would argue that thebestof provides knowledge on the town concerned - so where does the distinction lie? We have news, just like a newspaper site that appears to be acceptable. We have local information, just like other sites that appear to be acceptable. We have a commercial side - of course - but then local papers are not exactly charity cases! So commercialism is not the answer.

Wikipedia exists to be a fountain of knowledge, does it not? You are the experts, I am the novice - so I will accept your answers but I'd like to understand first. Why is information about a town not "more knowledge"? My site in Bromley for example has easily searched contact information on over 100 schools in the borough - they cannot all post their details on wikipedia separately, so why is a link to our site not useful?

So apart from the fact that to date the approach to putting on the links appears to have been a spam case, and I hope you now accept that is not the case, is there something else you don't like about thebestof that makes you feel the links are inappropriate? Thanks, appreciate your time, kbourne

Kbourne, Okay, the franchise argument is just about plausible although the timing on these accounts appearing is hard to believe as coincident. Looking at the bursts of activity if these were separate users then someone must have prompted them to edit. Lets put it this way:
(1) If you can stop these links being added by single purpose accounts then (unless anyone here strongly disagrees) the site will avoid being blacklisted. I would recommend this: it is believed (although entirely their responsibility) that Google uses our blacklist too.
(2) If the site avoids being blacklisted then if a consensus of established editors of particular pages agree to include the links we would not stand in their way
(3) You may PROPOSE the links on the talk pages of the articles and leave it up to the editors active there in each case.
(4) I am sure you wouldn't be tempted but we are quite good at spotting fake editors, sockpuppets (one user pretending to be someone else when at home say) and so on. I really wouldn't recommend taking that route.
This "deal" is subject to agreement by the community here and by you. Are you happy with this? Anyone disagree? --BozMo talk 16:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


BozMo - Agreed for my end. - :(1) We have an internal forum for the franchise and I have just posted a comment to ask everyone to stop making any links at least until we have an agreement. - :(2) I'd like to continue the discussion to help the established editors decide whether thebestof is considered valuable content or not. Is this the right place to have that conversation? - :(3) Agreed - see point 2. - :(4) Also agreed.

Kbourne 17:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)kbourne

I disagree unless it can be shown that these links meet WP:RS. I say that not out of hostility, but out of quality control. --A. B. (talk) 18:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Surely it is up to the rest of the WP community to be the judge of that in any (hypothetical) particular case? We are not judge jury and executioner and if there is a local bona fide consensus that a link meets guidelines that's surely not the concern of project wikispam?--BozMo talk 18:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Domains created by a single user

These three domains:

have some points in common:

  1. whois determines the three domains have been created on January 19, 2007, by Alex Pokachalov (aleksjr@gmail.com)
  2. They are empty (as in, you can't access them).
  3. Links added to Wikipedia always point to 1.htm (in example, somedomain.ig-nob.com/1.htm)

Three IPs so far have been found doing this:

Articles being linked include Richard R. Schrock, Ryoji Noyori, Irwin Rose, Peter Agre, Avram Hershko, etc. They all seem to be related to Nobel prizes, thus I think the user is trying to boost the domains rank by associating them with Nobel. User:Veinor first discovered this, and since then we have been creating this small list. If you find further domains being inserted in Nobel-related topics and can determine the whois information is the same, please add them here. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 21:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Check for an open proxy or zombie computer. The 68.2.19.249 is a Cox cable modem in the U.S., the other two are Russian.

Some of you are famous now in the prescription drug business

See:

Just change out the user name and you'll probably find most anyone else on Wikipedia.

And check out all the mirrors for Hu12:

Cheers, --A. B. (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

What the heck? So this for all users? Or is it just a few? This could have some spam implications if it is for all users, and there is not a nofollow enforced. mmm —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 21:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
All users and articles (e.g. this), by the looks of it. Standard Googlebait. CiaranG 22:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, they are simply mirroring wikipedia. Kinda ironic, but legal. (see WP:FORK) ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 22:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... I don't think they are mirroring, but instead leeching from Wikipedia. No way they could have mirrored a page I created yesterday this fast. Leeching is not right, I think. -- ReyBrujo 22:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
This is exactly why I have the "This is a Wikipedia user page, not an article" notice at the top of mine. I may update it with some "harsher" language... -- Satori Son 22:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I am reporting them now. -- ReyBrujo 22:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
You’re absolutely right. I just ran a test, and they are improperly leeching live content, which is definitely not allowed. Make any change, it shows up instantaneously. Takes a terrible toll on our bandwidth. I could have a lot of fun with this if I were ornery ("prescriptiondrug-info.com hates puppies"), but I’ll refrain. -- Satori Son 22:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Anyway about half of them don't have nofollow and about ten turn up regularly in google's list of backlinks. Algebra.com, answers.com, about.com, etc. are all mirrors. WPs own links are probably as irrelevant as DMOZs. Also an issue is they don't have the right robots.txt--BozMo talk 22:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
It is about our bandwidth. I posted a note here. I also dropped a note at the irc channel, so they have been acknowledged. Now it is a matter of how long it takes for them to prevent this "bleed". -- ReyBrujo 22:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

purevolume.com

heres a whole bunch of questionables. seems spammy, and i doubt it is a reliable source. thoughts? JoeSmack Talk 22:23, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Article at PureVolume. A random sample of the links suggests no deliberate campaign of spamming. CiaranG 22:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
From the article PureVolume, first sentence: "PureVolume is a website for rising bands and musical artists to promote themselves."...you sure? JoeSmack Talk 05:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I meant it doesn't appear any spamming is being done by the site owner. Didn't mean to imply it's not spam at all. Looking at various edit histories, it seems more likely that fans are inserting these links - again, just commenting, not saying the links aren't spammy/questionable. Cheers, CiaranG 11:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

worldtopix.com

I'm posting this here for the record since we'll probably see the spammer come around with a whitelist request.

  • worldtopix.com
    • Current list -- none left
      • Now blacklisted

Spammed both English and Swedish language Wikipedias, then blanked a portion of Meta:Talk:Spam blacklist

Accounts used (partial list):

--A. B. (talk) 02:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

See m:User talk:LX for more information on the address, etc. of the business spamming these links. --A. B. (talk) 13:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

teach12.com

Someone has inserted links to teach12.com product URLs all over 41+ articles. teach12.com is "The Teaching Company" and most of the links are to product pages selling $70 DVDs and whatnot. They might be affiliate links, or they might be spam directly from the company, but whatever it is it's commercial link spam. Sinned 08:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's the linksearch: teach12.com.
It has been added to 30+ articles, and is definitely a retail sales website, so I will start cleaning up when I get the chance. -- Satori Son 18:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Well so much for that. All my work has been reverted without comment by Stbalbach (talk · contribs). The links seem like obvious spam, i.e., "Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.", and almost all of them were obviously added as a result of a long-term, elaborate campaign of spamming. Since Stbalbach is an established editor, I would really appreciate additional opinions on this one. I know we try to avoid content disputes at this project, but this one seems like a clear cut case to me. Thanks, Satori Son 22:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It looks like Stbalbach only reverted the links on articles about the professors who give lectures for the company. I believe many of these pages contained biographical information about the people that in many cases was used to the write the articles. It looks like the links on articles about topics like Roman history stand (since they led directly to purchasing information). Nposs 22:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
But assuming these guys are notable professors, is a retail website really the best source we can come up with? My understaning of WP:EL was that such links should only be used if the information does not exist anywhere else. -- Satori Son 02:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


You reverted not only the external links but everything including any mention of authors having published works through TTC. In addition TTC is more than just a retail site it contains biographical information which is relevant to the notability and in some cases you even removed cited footnotes to TTC website. This is not just some commercial book site like Amazon, they publish university-level academic courses that are only available through their website which contains relevant information to the works and authors in question. -- Stbalbach 22:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
So when you reverted 9 of my edits in all of 3 minutes, you were carefully making sure those links really were the best source for that information? -- Satori Son 02:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Stbalbach, if the only biographical information available on the web is by a company selling products by those people being discussed, are the people really even notable? On your user talk page you mentioned "you removed not only the links but everything else including any mention the authors have published works through TTC". If the fact that they have published works through TTC is notable, then surely another objective or third party source would mention these facts and be more appropriate as a reference, no? You're basically saying that this company should be held to a different standard because it's "university-level". Are you a professor? Sinned 07:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
While I still firmly agree with Sinned that these links are blatant spam which should be removed, I suspect that most of you here feel this has become a debate on the quality of sources, and as such is outside the scope of this project. When I get a chance, I will work on these biographical articles in an attempt to cite the information to legitimate sources (or PROD those for which reliable sources do not exist). So I think we can close this issue here. Thanks, Satori Son 16:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

User_talk:Taleinfo blocked

This user has continued to spam after a warning from Hu12 so (with my newly acquired buttons) I have blocked them for 24 hours. I am partly putting the note here as a self-memo to go back and check. Here is the site links he was spamming (we've got all the links for now) [32] --BozMo talk 12:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Auto blacklisting

In continuation of ideas trying to automate and streamline efforts to eliminate the spam problem, I'm thinking of ways to improve auto blacklisting. What just came to me is perhaps we should have a mark as spam option that trusted users could use to automatically flag a domain as spam. We could vary the level of trust and how urgently or seriously the designation as spam is, either to auto revert links from that domain or just to flag them for futher review. Ideally we'd have some level where further review was only after the fact of getting the site blacklisted and links removed. Blacklisting in this case could either be just at the spambot level or taking it up to the Meta blacklist level depending on need. The option could be added into popups for example, and when an external link is highlighted with the mouse a popup comes up with options to blacklist or flag for blacklisting, etc. Maybe have the rights to do that limited to people on an approved list like AWB uses. If people don't want to go with one click blacklisting (which I do think we need for truly trusted users) perhaps anything flagged twice or more would get blacklisted. Maybe this could be integrated into the admin tools, so just as people can rollback vandalism, spam can be rolled back with one click, whether or not it's the last edit to an article. In any case, we have to work on automated tools if we want to stay ahead of the game. Thanks all. - Taxman Talk 14:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I agree but think we need to run through possible issues. e.g. at what level the URL gets blacklisted (just the link or the site etc.), also what happens if the switch is flicked when there are already a lot of links in place to that site (do inexperienced users get stressed because they suddenly cannot save lots of work on a spammed page?). Reverting is tricky too: a couple of times local established editors have come back and stoutly defended links which looked spammy to us (Cut the knot for example). So do we need some form of undo. --BozMo talk 14:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure, we certainly need an undo. If only domains auto tagged as spam X number of times are auto added to the Meta blacklist, that would mostly solve the problem of potential disagreements. Of course sites can be whitelisted too, if they're unusual and/or have specific consensus to include them. Perhaps we could do that on a per article basis too, ie ipodlounge is ok on these three articles, but nowhere else. And if a bot is available to help revert/remove all uses of sites that are truly spamming, then that would avoid the problem of inexperienced users not being able to edit. Of course, only Meta blacklisted domains cause pages not to be saveable. What we're looking for is the maximum bang for the buck; the least effort to remove the greatest amount of problem spam and prevent more. I think we can get that down to a few clicks per domain. The popup options might be Meta blacklist, domain flag, specific site flag, and each of those options could potentially include auto rollback/undo. Maybe only certain classes of users or users on a certain access list get access to some of those. Also we'd need excellent summaries providing all the links needed to address the issue. That would help with allowing people to report articles that need to be whitelisted, etc. I think we're already to the point that we need to move some of the manual effort onto whitelisting, instead of removing, and make removing more automatic. The more egregious the case, the more automatic it should be. Of course, I can only offer up ideas, not code, but hopefully that helps. - Taxman Talk 17:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Second opinion on http://www.newadvent.org

newadvent.org
Adsense pub-8168503353085287
Does not seem to provide a unique resource beyond what the articles its linked on already contains. Looks to have the purpose of selling books. Theres literaly thousands of these links--Hu12 17:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

First several links I looked at were religion-related -- those are always very sensitive. I suggest you raise the question at some relevant religious WikiProjects for any religion-related links; if you get no response, try a few article talk pages. Then delete cautiously. --A. B. (talk) 18:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The site is certainly very spammy. The content itself, despite the copyright notice, is apparently public domain. Some of the links I looked at are used as references, seem valid enough, and added by editors who had contributed constructively to the article. Others seem to be gratuitous additions in External Links, which add nothing to the article. CiaranG 18:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

lulu.com

I wonder how this one has slipped under the radar. lulu.com currently with 381 links of no value. A collaborative effort should get this cleaned up in an evening. ✤ JonHarder talk 23:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record its affiliated to stinz.com which is another one. --BozMo talk 10:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Careful with these, they are a funny mixture. Some are straight drop-in link spam but the site is an online publisher for self-published books (not book-seller) with a few legit links (maybe) to its author pages and to books which it publishes. However a lot of the "legit" links are from pages which themselves need to be deleted as articles on non-notable authors or books. Where I am putting prod I am leaving the links since they given context to the deletion discussion. See also Lulu.com--BozMo talk 10:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Incidentally doing a few of these I came across Vitamin C if someone fancies a look through. --BozMo talk 10:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Wow. There are poor links there, but it looks more like a POV/reliable sources issue than a real spam one. The article seems very pro the minority view of the scientific community and the sources and links they use to justify that stance are indicative of the POV's standing. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to take on something like that! -- Siobhan Hansa 17:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

bikecyclingreviews.com

Links to *.bikecyclingreviews.com have been slowly added to bike related articles by someone from Spain:

I'd like a second opinion before removing them all. The edits looks like self-promotional, since the registrant of www.bikecyclingreviews.com is also from Spain [33].

—Red Thrush 13:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I have been through them. The site is heavily advertised and IMHO the content is too shallow. None are put in by established editors. It also seems to be a blog with only one person writing the articles. I would delete them with the comment "del link to shallow blog article" or similar. --BozMo talk 13:37, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Proxy spamming.

I just notified ANI: there is some kind of spamming by proxy currently in progress. See *.supermortgagerate.info and *.besttradelink.info. ✤ JonHarder talk 14:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to get them on Shadowbot's blacklist. Veinor (talk to me) 15:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Can the linkwatcher bot have a log to allow it to pull up all of the IP addresses related to this? Isotope23 (talk · contribs) is collecting them here for evaluation and blocking. See also the discussion at WP:ANI#Proxy spamming. ✤ JonHarder talk 16:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Blocking spammers

Is there a policy to report spamming editors for potential ? Or should I just wait for them to violate 3RR? Right now I'm looking at [34] repeatedly adding links in multiple places to Arlington Heights, Illinois and Arlington High School (Arlington Heights, Illinois), it seems like the editor has made no other edits besides the spamming. --Milo H Minderbinder 18:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, spamming is vandalism... so if they have been warned up though {{uw-spam4}} then you can report them to WP:AIV. Otherwise, if the case is more complicated you can report it here and one of the two or three admins who frequent this page can whip out the blockhammer (I keep mine next to the mop). ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 18:37, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
At this point they've reached three reverts, I'll probably just give them a 3RR warning and let them go that route. --Milo H Minderbinder 18:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks like he greatly accelerated his own demise. :) SubSeven 07:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

User was unblocked after promising to be nice and is back as User:T54. So far, only contributions are still to promote arlingtoncards.com. I guess at least he's using talk pages thus far: maybe we can talk some sense into him. -- Satori Son 06:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this editor continues to be completely unreasonable. Even though Milo H Minderbinder, A.B., Siobhan Hansa, and I have all either removed or declined to add this link, T54 (talk · contribs) continues to flout consensus and instead engage in uncivil ad hominem attacks.[35] If someone else could please examine the arlingtoncards.com website and give their unbiased opinion at Talk:Arlington High School (Arlington Heights, Illinois), it would be greatly appreciated. -- Satori Son 01:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The site appears to have little actual content and instead is a directory. Seems spammy to me. IrishGuy talk 01:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

4icu.org

This website has numerous lists of universities for various countries and US states which list the universities in their order of "web popularity". It seems that most of those pages have been linked to on the Wikipedia (see [36]). I also found a discussion where an IP complained about the deletion of one of their links and tries to defend the website here. My personal opinion is that lists that the website has aren't any more useful than the lists in the articles where the links have been added as external links, and therefore should all be deleted and the website added to the MediaWiki's spam blacklist. BlankVerse 13:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Totally non-encylopedic spam. Plus, at least one anon IP that spammed 4icu has also tried spamming the related website (4icj). A couple of IPs for context:
Nposs 05:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Clearly spam added by the site's owner. Falls under "sites providing no information outside what a featured article would contain." ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 05:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Does WP:SPAM have a bot that can clear out all that spew, or does it have to be done by hand? BlankVerse 08:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Hand basically. Sigh. I'll have a first go--BozMo talk 13:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I took care of a few, but BozMo and someone else cleaned up most of them. Clear for now. -- Satori Son 15:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
WP:AWB makes light work of batches of up to around 50 or so. Unfortunately you can't really fully automate it and not mess things up in the articles. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 04:12, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Victoria cross

The Wikipedia:WikiProject Victoria Cross Reference Migration moved a heap of content into wikipedia, the old domain is now being squatted and we are providing heaps of links to it. Could someone with access to some sort of automated tool, find and replace the links to the external site with a link to the wikiproject instead please? -Peta 05:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Eek... looks like about 1300+/- links from here to there according to the linksearch. This looks like a job for the bot people... WP:BOTREQ is the shortcut I think. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 07:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I've requested a bot - but no action so far. If anyone wants to help. I am removing the This page has been migrated from the Victoria Cross Reference with permission and adding this template on the talk page {{Wikiproject VC migration}} --Peta 02:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

SPAMIN

The first draft of Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/Incident Noticeboard is now live. Anyone have any suggestions, comments or critiques before we go live with this? ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 06:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Be kind if you could explain exactly how its going to work upfront? Esp when is an incident a new incident versus to be posted on an old spammer etc? I am sure it has potential to be a lot better (well, I did suggest it), just like to understand. Are we going to transclude all the incidents back here? Is the idea that we watch all the incidents or watch this or both? --BozMo talk 12:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
This (the page were on) would be limited to general chatter about W.P.Spam. The SPAMIN board would be for 1. general wiki-public to report spam to us, 2. discussion about on-going spammers.... you know, the talk about "Oh, I found this site listed on X sites, what do you all thing" and 3. Notice of ongoing active spamming taking place.
Anouther thing we can start to do is create sub-pages of this page (WikiProject Spam/domain.com) and have the person start a new sub-page for each new domain to track the progress and work being done. I donno... just throwing ideas out. If we don't want to use the SPAMIN board I can easily delete it. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 03:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I want us to use it, just get etiquette clear. --BozMo talk 10:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

articles.industrialsoft.org and articles.co.nr

I thought everyone might enjoy this interesting example of low-key linkspam. Achalmeena (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) has engaged in a long term link spam of a website which apparently scrapes content from WP, edits it, slaps it with adsense (pub-3054588969723659) and then links it back to WP. From the index of the industrialsoft.org site: "These articles have been hand-picked from Wikipedia, tidied up (by deletion only, not alteration), checked for plausibility and suitability (by volunteers, whom we gratefully acknowledge) and put together." So it's like old versions of articles except with content deleted! It probably slipped by because the editor also made seemingly useful contributions to highly technical articles. Other links lead to a rather suspicious "download" page for software that seems mariginally related to the articles. There's even a "wiki" about traditional Indian medicine that has been linked.

I'll delete the links. Is this block or ban worthy for the user? Nposs 04:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I am leaving a final warning. --BozMo talk 10:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

'opa.com'

A group of IP's is lately adding jewellery.php5.cz/diamond/neil-diamond-play-me.html to pages (disruptively), latest IP: 58.103.65.123. I can't get onto #wikipedia-spam-t, so I report it here. --Dirk Beetstra T C 09:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I will relay the message. —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 10:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Cheers! --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive and a note

I archived this page again, if I screwed something up, go chase me :D. On a related note, if we are talking about blacklisting a site, can we not link to it here (http://example.com) but rather just put example.com. This would save the meta-blacklist from kicking in, and preventing saving of this page. Archiving this was hell :P, about 10 times I had to go back and forth to the meta-blacklist warning, remove a link, and repeat.

Also another related note, as this page is very busy, could we think about bringing User:Werdnabot in? I am more then willing to set the bot up, and we can have it archive talk over say... 5 days old. That might make this page a bit easier to use. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 10:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

See discussion above (SPAMIN and above again): we want to redo the way the pages are structured. This should help. --BozMo talk 10:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I am a bit worried about adding extra layers, SPAMIN sounds like a good idea, but beyond that I think it might be going a bit too far. Right now our problems can be solved by simply setting werdnabot to archive stuff over 4-5 days old. I suspect we will want to do the same in SPAMIN. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 19:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Mirrors and forks, scrapers and spammers

I continue to be surprised to find resources, discussions, etc. on Wikipedia of which I was unaware. I feel sometimes as if I am reinventing wheels as I help out with WP:WPSPAM. Here's today's discovery:

Many of us have seen how a site will paste in Wikipedia content to get their own articles, then cover the page with ads. Sometimes, they then add spam links to our articles to their site. It turns out Wikipedia tries to track these sites; see:


A link from a Wikipedia article to a mirror site with a bunch of ads is almost certainly blatant spam and the list above can be a good resource. Likewise, as we find scraper sites in the course of tracking down spam, we should be updating the list at Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks.


"Scraping" Wikipedia for any purpose can be legal provided certain very minimal steps are taken, however the typical link-spammer doesn't always bother; from the scraper site article:

  • "Even taking content from an open content site can be a copyright violation, if done in a way which does not respect the license. For instance, the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) and Creative Commons ShareAlike (CC-BY-SA) licenses require that a republisher inform readers of the license conditions, and give credit to the original author. Most scraper sites which copy GFDL- or CC-BY-SA-licensed content do not do this, and therefore are infringing copyright law."


Wikipedia critic Daniel Brandt ran an analysis to try to show that there is a lot of plagiarism within Wikipedia -- that is, Wikipedia authors pasting copyrighted material into Wikipedia articles:

  • http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061103/wikipedia_plagiarism.html?.v=2
  • Daniel Brandt#Criticism of Wikipedia
    • Some background: User:Daniel Brandt (talk • contribs) is presently banned and his Wikipedia Watch website is on the blacklist. Brandt also frequently posts on Wikipedia Review, a blacklisted forum site fiercely critical of Wikipedia. The issue of blacklisting these site has been endlessly discussed elsewhere within the Wikipedia community and I pass it along here merely as background, not as a topic to be mixed into this discussion of mirrors and spammers.

As a byproduct of this investigation, Brandt identified 972 sites that use Wikipedia material without proper attribution. He posted the list on Wikipedia Review:

  • wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=6352&view=findpost&p=21514


I've left a note at Wikipedia talk:Mirrors and forks inviting the mirror and fork volunteers to join our discussion here. It seems like there are synergies between what we're doing here and what the mirror and fork volunteers are doing. Other observations, questions and suggestions:

  1. I think violation of our copyright should be automatic grounds for adding a domain to the Foundation-wide link-blacklist at m:Talk:Spam blacklist. First, our guidelines specificly prohibit linking to sites that violate anyone's copyright. Second, such links are probably going to have been deliberately spammed in bad faith >>90% of the time. I wonder if such blacklisting already occurs or does something need to happen to start the ball rolling?
  2. Inter-project cooperation on mirrors and forks: it seems this is likely an area of interest for all projects in all languages. I wonder if there's any inter-project cooperation, perhaps on Meta as there is with the spam blacklist?
  3. If not blacklisted, we may want to consider adding copyright violators to Shadowbot's list.
  4. I recommend modifying the form used at Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks to list mirror sites Template:Mirror to include {{linksearch}} along with a link to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam

--A. B. (talk) 16:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Out of interest, I am a bit conflicted on this one as I own www.fixedreference.org (which has copies of the CD selections on it, plus a couple of statics) but as a little warning FR was originally rated "highly compliant" (not by me) and I went through everything requested in detail and then 18 months later got downgraded to medium not because it or the copyright changed but because someone decided to include additional non-GFDL criteria. It doesn't carry adverts of course. Jimbo also was involved in a long discussion with answer.com a couple of years ago and I think reached some agreement with them. Static mirrors are beneficial in a way: they take a lot of traffic off our servers at much lower server loads (because they don't dynamically generate the pages). Anyway, the real point is by the time a mirror has been found and assessed at mirrors and forks it is known and starts getting letters etc. The stuff we see is generally earlier in the process. THe overlap is only at the start of the funnel in my view but you are welcome to disagree. --BozMo talk 22:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
BozMo, I'm mainly interested in the flagrant cases and using the Wikipedia and Brandt info as input for some {{linksearch}}es. I don't want to be the GFDL police. And no, I'm not against mirrors per se -- it's the really spammy stuff. You've got to admit that some one who adds a link from the Black Widow article to his out of date, ad-ridden mirror copy that fails to credit Wikipedia is doing no one but himself any good. That's who I'm interested in.
By the way, sometimes I'll see a scraper site that appears to mirror Wikipedia page without attribution. I'll then Google a few key words and find out they're violating someone else's copyright (often Animal Planet for some reason). If the offended site makes it easy to report a problem, I'll spend an extra 30 seconds to make them aware of the infringement.
BozMo, I promise we won't send these GFDL robots after you ... not yet. --A. B. (talk) 22:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Its okay I wasn't trying to escape the pack dogs! Just by the time they are listed they are probably relatively legit. It is at the "spot new clone" stage that the overlap is valuable. --BozMo talk 09:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Using Wikiseek to look for and identify spam

Jdevalk left me the following note:

Hey A. B.,
I thought I'd give you some tips on how to find spam in Wikipedia and remove it, hoping you would know the proper way to pass this on to other spam guards.
If you use wikiseek.com to look for viagra, like this, you'll find loads of pages which are apparently somehow linked from WikiPedia. For instance, take the 4th result. A weblink search will show you that this page is linked from WOSM-Eurasian_Region. Now, go there, go to the external link section, and click on the link to it. It will say "site is under reconstruction!!!". Now if this alone isn't enough reason to remove the link, use the Firefox webdeveloper extension, and disable CSS for that page. You will then see that it is absolutely LOADED with links for phentermine, viagra, etc. etc.
The lessons learned here
  • use WikiSeek, it sucks as a search engine because of all the spam in it, but for spam admins, it's a hell of a way to seek and destroy spam;
  • always disable CSS and JavaScript when checking out a page, people will do their best to hide those links from you.
If you need more help or explanation, let me know! --Jdevalk 22:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Here's my own test; note that I did not have time to try out Firefox and the extension Joost recommends, but I did not want to sit on this longer:
  • http://eurasiascout.org
    • Current list of pages with these links
      • 1 link to WOSM-Eurasian Region
        • Wikiseek's link is to the main page:"site is under reconstruction!!!"
          • See Joost's comment about this one -- source code is full of spam links
  • http://inventors.about.com
    • Current list of pages with these links
      • 306 links -- don't necessarily look spammy
        • Wikiseek's link is to "Viagra - The Patenting of an Aphrodisiac"
          • May or may not meet WP:RS -- I don't know how the editorial oversight matches that of the now blacklisted Suite101.com
          • Now owned by The New York Times Company
          • Compensation is based on the number of page views -- may invite spamming à la Suite101.com
          • About.com is probably worth a separate discussion (i.e., in a separate section)


  • http://www.hiphopdx.com
    • Current list of pages with these links
      • 286 links
        • Don't know if they were spammed. Looks self-published
          • Wikipedia article: HipHopDX
            • Wikiseek gives 2 links in its first 10 results
              • "Pharrell - In My Mind (Album review)"
              • "On Top Of Our Game - Dem Franchise Boys Album Reviews"
  • http://www.usatoday.com
    • Current list of pages with these links
      • Zillions -- reliable source
        • Wikiseek link: "Young men add Viagra to their drug arsenal"
  • http://www.usrf.org
    • Current list of pages with these links
      • 5 links
        • Urological Sciences Research Foundation
          • Wikiseek's link is to "Viagra is Misunderstood Despite Name Recognition" (copy of Wall Street Journal article)

Many thanks to Jdevalk--A. B. (talk) 18:56, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure :) --Jdevalk 20:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
This is a great idea... I'm going to start compiling a "hotlist" of keywords that often bring up spam sites. Muahahah spammers look out! :) ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 00:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd start looking in the area of Pills, Porn and Poker :) --Jdevalk 15:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Funny busines at lindacropformayor.com

While experimenting with the new Wikiseek-and-destroy method, I came across http://www.lindacroppformayor.com/. It is currently linked to the appropriate article (Linda W. Cropp) and looks just fine. The source code, though, shows multiple spammy links. Should I remove the link or leave it since it doesn't really help the secretly linked pages? Nposs 20:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so the "multiple" spammy links only lead to two websites: a community theatre group (http://scda.org.uk/) and a door company (http://singerdoors.co.uk/). Perhaps this is a bunch of beans and I should leave it alone. Nposs 20:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
IMHO, this is the kind of spam that SHOULD be punished... Those hidden links are pure search engine spam, and might very well be placed there BECAUSE the page has a link from Wikipedia. --Jdevalk 18:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah exactly what Jdevalk, just said, leave a crater where that was please :D. —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 20:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

User page spam

User:Jrandell is a persistent spammer - links are removed, but can/should anything be done about the user page? CiaranG 07:58, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

No, not necessary. Is not article space, links are OK in talkpages and in userspace (as long as there is no really offending material, I think, there are some rules). --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Or at least, there aren't any rules. But the "community" here is pretty relaxed about user space (at least in allowing users to 3RR their own talk space etc. ). Article talk pages is a bit more marginal: external links in sigs aren't allowed and I would revert someone who didn't embed ELs into a pretty relevant discussion on a talk page. --BozMo talk 09:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, there is precedent for deleting user pages that are pure spam and Wikipedia:User page doesn't give a total free ride. Such pages go through MfD, not AfD. I don't think WP:EL, WP:RS,WP:OR,WP:V,WP:NPOV are applied here very often -- it's more often about Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not or Wikipedia:No Personal Attacks. I recommend perusing the following for precedents and general community consensus on this topic:
Others often feel differently, but personally, I don't bother with user pages -- I get in enough controversies as it is with spammers accusing me of bad faith (for example, Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/CarInsurance.com). --A. B. (talk) 13:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and put it up for MfD. If the user had made any constructive edits...anything more than simply adding spamlinks I might have been more hesitant. The account it obviously just an advertising account. IrishGuy talk 23:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

hiphopdx.com

*.hiphopdx.com

second opinions on this review site? it has its own article too, HipHopDX.com. JoeSmack Talk 14:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

As a site it looks ok to me... Though it has a LOT of links from WP and you might want to consider if it should... --Jdevalk 18:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't think of it as very authoritative... JoeSmack Talk 22:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

*.ohhla.com

*.ohhla.com

here is a lyrics site that needs a sweep, hundred some links. JoeSmack Talk 14:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Is there a way to see who added all those links? Looks like someone has been slowly spamming that page.... --Jdevalk 18:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Page history, but right now I think I will work on removing most if not all of these (there are 96 of these in mainspace). —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 20:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I have taken the total number of links down to 21 articles in mainspace, I am sure that that can be pruned down some more :D. (link to linksearch) —— Eagle 101 (Need help?) 20:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Diabetes pages

Diabetes and Diabetes mellitus external links and reference sections are way to long... I'd remove them almost all and just link to DMOZ, what do you guys think? --Jdevalk 21:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Chemical sources is insane as well, and Sucralose could use a look I think... --Jdevalk 21:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Diabetes and Diabetes Mellitus are the same page, external links section is a bit longish, haven't looked at the links themselves, references sections can not be too long, they may contain links to not reliable sources, so that can be checked.
Wikipedia:chemical sources is a page comparable to wikipedia:Book sources, the search engine is under review (bugzilla, bug 7514). The page still needs a cleanup though. For now, I believe that that page keeps away a lot of individual links from many chemical pages, which would have to be removed otherwise. Sucralose seems fine, 6 EL, all OK, no real spammy ones ([37], maybe, but it is the official site. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra T C 21:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)