Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sims

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[edit] Members list

Thanks for being selfish enough to put your name as number one, I don't see what gave you the right to take over this project anyway. You don't even spell my name right, it's Jammy0002 not Jammy002, I reserve the right for me to remain at the top of the list. Jammy (talk) 15:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. If it's only useful to me, please put it on my talk page. This isn't going to help the project.
I wasn't being selfish: generally the person who founds the project or does the most goes at the top. The latter is no longer here, so that makes it me. I have now changed it to alphabetical order, making .:Alex:. at the top.
That was a mistake - I accidentally missed a 0 off. Have the courtesy to understand that people make typos occasionally. And why didnt you just Be Bold and change it?
"I reserve the right for me to remain at the top of the list" - what does that mean? No-one has any right to be at the top of the list. Putting aside that that's a breach of WP:OWN, I think you need to understand that "who cares"? It's a website - IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!
BG7even 15:59, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Wel Like I said on the talk page of the Members list it should go as Seniority to the project and the alphabetical order will just end up in confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Electrical Experiment (talk • contribs) 17:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Ive Changed it. Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 17:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I've changed it back. Sorry, but it's the way it's done - there is no "seniority" - everyone is equal! BG7even 17:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
All it means is they where here before you and should be first it means nothing its just better looking than 26 level 4 headlines. Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 17:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes I Agree with Jammy what gave you the right to take over the project. This is a wikiproject not a dictatorship. Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 17:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Todo List

How do you add Stuff to the todo list w/ this new page format? Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 17:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Directly onto Wikipedia:WikiProject Sims/right side, under the to-do section. Tell me what you want on and i'll do it.
BG7even 17:40, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vote (2)

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Which is better. this

Please note that there are letter section in between but i had to condense it.

[edit] A
  1. .:Alex:. (talk · contribs)
[edit] B
  1. Bluegoblin7 (talk · contribs)
[edit] D
  1. Darkside2000 (talk · contribs)
[edit] E
  1. Electrical Experiment (talk · contribs)
[edit] F
  1. Frecklefoot (talk · contribs)
[edit] M
  1. Martin23230 (talk · contribs)
[edit] S
  1. SimpsonsFan08 (talk · contribs)
  2. Shapiros10 (talk · contribs)

or

  1. Jammy (talk)
  2. Martin23230 (talk)
  3. Frecklefσσt | Talk
  4. .:Alex:.
  5. BG7
  6. Electrical Experiment (talk) 21:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
  7. SimpsonsFan08 talk Sign Here Please
  8. Darkside2000 (talk)
  9. ♥Shapiros10WuzHere♥

Thankyou.

The first one. Signatures make it look messy, and it's less organised!!! BG7even 17:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been bold and taken action. BG7even 17:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok how is 26 level 4 headlines not messy?Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 17:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Second one if better, more simple to add a name to the bottom of the list rather than have to find which spot your username should be in. Jammy (talk) 20:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[edit] Portal is gone

If you (blue goblin) are going to recreate the portal please do it soon or delete the link to it, on Template:WPSims and the main project page. Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 17:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Give me a chance! I do have a life! BG7even 19:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome Banner

I saw the redlink for the welcome banner so I Created it. Tell me how you like it.

It is Here
Sincerely, ElectricalExperiment 19:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeh I love it! There's a few format tweaks that you could do, and also how about boxing it and putting a background on it?
BG7even 19:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newsletter Format

Can I See the new newsletter Format because somethings don't work on safari that work on IE and Firefox. ElectricalExperiment 21:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hello!

Hello, I'm still here! I do like the new project page, and the re-format of the portal is going well. I must admit I agree with Jammy and EE, and the list of names should be signatures in the order of joining, however I see I missed the vote above (It was only open for about 1 hour [1] [2]!)

I also have to agree with the two as to BG7's "rule". You did appear suddenly wishing to reform the entire project, and you are only our self-elected leader. From what I remember, you were not on great terms with Save the Humans/Trees Rock when he left, and both me and Jammy have been with this project much longer. However, some of what you have done has been good, and it seems that after the first vote (that I also missed, I was only off for a few days, and so much has happened!) you have accepted we want to keep the project at WP:Sims. This is good.

Any way, if there is anything I can do... If consensus was reached on expanding, we could start to add the template to all other Sims articles. --23230 talk 18:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay... After looking around it seems there is some bad feelings running throughout the project, especially over the list of names. I personally see that it was better as it was, and I mean originally, before the grand reformat, where the names were in order of membership date. I am also aware that the leader of the project usualy goes at the top of the list with other members underneath. As such I think it stems from who should be leading the project. Clearly we are in a situation where our founder has left, and the issue of who was to follow has never been solved. Me and Jammy have been here the longest, and may be first up for de facto leadership; however both Electrical and Blue Goblin have undeniably done huge amounts for the project. I think this is the root of the argument, and I would say we should vote on it, if only for the problem as that neither of the other two would vote for BG7 (sad but true). As such I think a request for consensus must be reached, before the project collapses. --23230 talk 19:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I have to say, you do have some good points about leadership. But this project is not about dictatorship. This project was created to help with Sims articles. But for the last week or so we've been under siege by ourselves, we're not the Romans. We shouldn't have a dictatorship. We should all be equal and all have our own equal oppurtunites in the project. I do not want to participate in any leadership wars, all I'm saying is that for the oldest members of the project I believe we have every right to remain at the top of that list. By the way, due to someone being unhappy with the outcome of the vote above, there is yet another vote being held here. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sims/members2#Dispute so feel free to join in again, and welcome back to Wikipedia as well, it's good to have you back. Jammy (talk) 19:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Right. Let me clarfiy some bleeding points.
  1. What bloody rule? I never selected myself as leader. Nothing was happening, I saw room for improvement and for keeping the project around - the original scope was bloody tiny - and I never said that we had to go to Maxis - it was a suggestion, and i took peoples comments on board and it's easier to just do all things sims. I followed WP Policy by being bold. Do not fight back with that.
  2. So what? And who cares? I have been with WP:Derbys the longest, but do I not let newer members have their ways? No. It has nothing to do with who bleeding joined first! It's a project to collaborate efforts!!!
  3. Yes. Do add the template to Sims articles.
  4. Ok then. I'll get all my revamping oversighted... and if anyone dares copy it then there will be trouble.
  5. It's an effin Collaborative Project! There is no leader! Thus why I went to a new format, as several users were on about seniority!!! There is no leader!
  6. It's bluegoblin not "Blue Goblin" "BlueGoblin" or whatever anyone else thinks it is.
  7. Well said Jammy. And when have I dictated? Never. Electrical was on about leaders and seniority - that's his reasons for the old list, cause the people at the top are more senior than those below. Utter crap.
  8. That comment a) isn't for the benefit of project members, it relates to the WP:3O. I was not unhappy, I wanted to get a more experienced and uninvolved user to see it. And I shall take "...someone being unhappy..." as yet another personal attack against me.
BG7even 10:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Please keep a cool head and don't swear. I am sure that I could report you; however I don't think that would solve anything, so I will attempt to continue in a reasonably sensible and mature conisation. As for your points:

1. What bloody rule? I never selected myself as leader. Nothing was happening, I saw room for improvement and for keeping the project around - the original scope was bloody tiny - and I never said that we had to go to Maxis - it was a suggestion, and i took peoples comments on board and it's easier to just do all things sims. I followed WP Policy by being bold. Do not fight back with that.

Firstly, by rule I meant in terms of rulership, governance, leadership... rather than laws or orders. It was used to show merely your 'Time in Command', and I did not mean it offensively. Similarly I am using Leader as a general term, it could be Co-ordinator, Project Manager ect..., and it does not imply any huge authority just that a group of people always need someone in control. (That is why Communism didn't work) Secondly, you said at [3], and I quote: ‘‘Trees Rock (talk · contribs)/ Save the humans (talk · contribs) has left the project. I will be taking over as the lead project editor... This sounds to me like you did select [yourself] as leader. At the time you were the newest-but-one member of the Project, and the one member who joined after you left in protest to your changes. [4] Usually this would require some discussion as to the new leader As the founder and automatic controller of the Project left, I would assume that normal practice would be to hold a vote for a new leader. Thirdly, I am and always have been for the expanding of the scope to cover all Maxis Sim Games. I first suggested It not long after the project opened. [5] The consensus at the time was to stay as the project was then. When .:Alex:. joined he brought up the subject again, [6] and the same decision was made, although The Sims Stories were added to the scope. Anyway, I merely protested at moving the entire project to Maxis when WP:Sims worked fine. Fourthly, I am glad that you discussed the issues with us instead of going ahead as when you first joined. I am aware of WP:BOLD, and the fact the matter has not led to a serious edit war with people being blocked left, right and centre shows how we are all mature enough to settle the matter by talking. Fifthly, I don't want to fight you anyway, and I don’t see how taking extreme action like banning would help, so I am trying to settle this calmly, without the need for violence (or swearing). Anyway, getting on...

2. So what? And who cares? I have been with WP:Derbys the longest, but do I not let newer members have their ways? No. It has nothing to do with who bleeding joined first! It's a project to collaborate efforts!!!

Although there are little merits of veterancy, the fact that the newcomer doesn’t automatically inherit the leader ship should be clear. OK, if the leader ship is not inherited, like a monarchy, then we should take a vote on it. It is also interesting that every person in this project (from the 'surviving 4') is either 14 or 15 years old, if the internet is to be believed. I am aware that I have a policy never to set any personal information on the internet, however I was born in 1992 and this seems to be a time when the information is needed. Clearly we are not as different as we think, and the question of leader ship comes down to who is best for the project.

3. Yes. Do add the template to Sims articles.

I will start when this is cleared up.

4. Ok then. I'll get all my revamping oversighted... and if anyone dares copy it then there will be trouble.

Anything on Wikipedia is open and usable. It seems you have been in some trouble over ownership before [7] and I merely wish to re-state that 1. If you don't want your material to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it. And 2. If you do not want your ideas (for article organization, categorization, style, standards, etc.) challenged or developed by others, then do not submit them. (from WP:OWN) Also, do not result to threats please.

5. It's an effin Collaborative Project! There is no leader! Thus why I went to a new format, as several users were on about seniority!!! There is no leader!

The list of names is purely for convenience, so that new members can add their names to the bottom. This was always fine, however you adding your name to the top during re-formatting is not right. It has nothing to do with seniority, however the list of letters just looks bad, and the unused letters are unnecessary. It is true there should be no leader ideally; however a society with no-one in control soon collapses. Someone, for example, must be head of the Newspaper section, deciding what goes in and what does not. The leader has little to no power, and is probably best called the co-ordinator, or some similar title. However, a leader no-one wants is almost worse. I am not saying we don't want you in the project, and what you have done has mainly been very good, however is must be clear to you that both Jammy and Electric are not your greatest fans. The reason for my remarks I made above, that consensus is needed, purely on the fact that if we had a vote, bluegoblin would have to agree to stick to the result. And, fairly, it seems that bluegoblin would lose in the present climate. (Who would win is another matter). Therefore I would assume any call for a vote would be contested by bluegoblin, quite rightly. I would do the same myself. It is clear outside help is needed.

6. It's bluegoblin not "Blue Goblin" "BlueGoblin" or whatever anyone else thinks it is.

I apologise. Usernames are cumbersome affairs, and I know some people have strict views on theirs. As for me, call me Martin! By the way, I assume it is fine to call you Electrical and Jammy, Electrical Experiment and Jammy0002? I don't want any more arguments.

7. Well said Jammy. And when have I dictated? Never. Electrical was on about leaders and seniority - that's his reasons for the old list, cause the people at the top are more senior than those below. Utter crap.

The old list was merely the simplest list of members possible. You moving your name to the top arguably started all of these arguments on seniority. Of course, it is not only bluegoblin who is at fault, Electrical may of been a little over the top in regards to status, however the list in joining order is as neutral as possible, without tons of sub-headings.

8. That comment a) isn't for the benefit of project members, it relates to the WP:3O. I was not unhappy, I wanted to get a more experienced and uninvolved user to see it. And I shall take "...someone being unhappy..." as yet another personal attack against me.

This comment is more for Jammy than me, however I don't see how that was a personal attack, and if it was intended to be one then Jammy is in the wrong.

Last, and not least, over the weeks since the project's creation I have thought about leaving many times. The first was soon after bluegoblin announced his changes. The most recent one was this evening, when my computer froze after typing about half of this very (long!) reply. I thought, Oh stuff it, let them argue in their own way, I don’t care. However I returned. This is because a) I don't want to leave an argument un-completed, but mainly b) Because I believe we can be a force of good on this Website, and we can improve it for others. I am currently in the very middle of my exams, and I should be revising, however I spent 2.5 hours composing this reply to remind you of why we joined this project, and what this project is about. I believe everything can be sorted out in a calm manner, with no swearing or reporting, for the greater good of the project. I thank you. --23230 talk 19:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok ley me make this clear I did NOT Mean anything status wise by mentioning seniority. All I Meant is order of joining. Sorry If I have Confused anyone over this? ElectricalExperiment 20:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome Banner

Im on Firefox and the welcome Banner has a whit background (not very simmish)[[User:CattleMan|CattleMan]]{{dot}}([[User Talk:CattleMan|Talk]]) (talk) 21:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)