Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Userboxes/Scout-former

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Wikipedia WikiProject Scouting/Userboxes/Scout-former is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

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[edit] Merge

Merge Since the idea is basically "Once a Scout, always a Scout" (assuming you were not kicked out for some sort of misbehavior or something), there needs not to be a differentiation. Chris 19:10, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Do not merge for those of us who have given up on U.S. scouts ever treating gays as actual human beings. --James S. 22:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

note-the template does _not_ apply only to Scouts in the United States, but the entire world, of which the BSA is a small part. Chris 22:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Since you are in the U.S. yourself, I respectfully request that you leave this template alone for those of us who want nothing further to do with the bigoted BSA leadership. --James S. 22:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Since you insist on using the negative anti-World Scout graphic, I respectfully request that you change the wording of this userbox to reflect that you have an issue. Again note world Scouting and the BSA are two separate entities. Chris 22:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether everyone using the userbox has done so for the same reason I have, but the graphic is back to how it was originally created. Instead of trying to get rid of the userbox, how about focusing your efforts on a national leadership with respect for basic human rights? --James S. 22:47, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not trying to get rid of the userbox, if folks feel the need for it; I am trying to get it to be more specific as right now the message of the language and the message of the graphic do not synch up. Chris 22:52, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I see two different views of what this template should be. The graphic can be viewed as meaning "I was a Scout and am not registered as one now" OR as "I am opposed to Scouting". The wording in the template should be clarified and two separate templates used as there are obviously two separate agendas here. Rlevse 02:37, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's an accurate description of the situation. I am not opposed to scouting. I am opposed to bigotry and discrimination against gays. That is why I am no longer involved with scouting. In another country I probably would be. I don't want to advertise my disagreement with the BSA because there is really only that one issue whic has ever been in serious contention as far as I know. I just want people to know that I used to be a scout and I am not anymore. --James S. 03:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The BSA's action of excluding homosexuals became an underlying reason why I ceased volunteering as a Scoutmaster with the BSA. I agree however that "Once a Scout, Always a Scout" and there is nothing to be gained by announcing (by itself) that you are a former Scout since the other userbox would have be sufficient. I do see an agenda however where this will be used for the purpose of declaring your view against that of the BSA when in comes to the exclusion of homosexuals. I recommend that the BSA Universal Emblem be used for this purpose instead of the World Scout Badge. I believe it unfair to brand the world organization because of the independent stand of one association not shared by the rest. I have enjoyed Scouting in the Philippines and the Scout Association in the Philippines does not share the BSA's view. --Mang Kiko 09:34, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I have created {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Userboxes/former BSA}}, so I am no longer using the Scout-former template, and withdraw my objections to the proposed merge. --James S. 11:52, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I have only just joined the debate. I disagree with the merge. Please keep it. While I accept "Once a Scout, always a Scout", I want to indicate on my user page that I have been associated with Scouting and that I am still interested, but that I have little direct current knowledge of scouting. I am not from BSA but I have been a participant on usenet re the "God" and "Gays" debate in BSA. I like the "former BSA" userbox, but it does not meet the needs of those outside the USA. For now I have just copied the appropriate content of the userbox, so I will still have it even if it is merged. --Bduke 22:46, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Keep I am a former scout but would like to indicate so. Removing this serves no purpose. Keep this template as an alumni point. Tx Idleguy 08:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I vote keep. Why should being a former scout and being a current scout be linked? I was going somewhere with this, but I forget where. Eyeball kid 20:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

After raising this on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting I have removed the merge tag off the template. The consensus is clearly "Keep". --Bduke 21:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)