Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sailor Moon

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Contents 1 Sailor Cosmos 2 Sailor Moon Timeline? 3 Unlaunched Manga article 4 Re-updating the character articles 5 Naoko Takeuchi's appearance at the 1998 San Diego Comic Convention 6 Notes on the series 7 Signature color 8 Notability of fiction 9 More Rankings 10 Popularity rankings 11 Tuxedo Mask 12 Powers List 13 TfD nomination of Template:Sailor-Moon-stub-List 14 Category:Sailor Moon episode screenshots not being deleted? 15 Guidelines 15.1 WP:FICT has been revised 15.2 Wikipedia:Notability (serial works) 16 Flower Meaning in SM? 17 Edit Wars? 18 Project Copyvios 19 Randomness.... 20 Going to Watch Live Action Series 20.1 Episode 1 21 Takeuchi's opinion on the Rainbow Crystal arc? 22 Update to the Official Website 23 Template 24 Interpretation? 25 Story Locations 26 GA Sweeps 27 digit code 28 Cutie Honey

[edit] Sailor Cosmos

People are trying to remove the stuff on the ChibiChibi page that says Sailor Cosmos isn't necessarily Usagi. This is important and easy to source, so please help come up with the sources and phrasing to make it work. I don't know SM websites that well. --Masamage ♫ 17:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I asked for a reference, and you brought this site. This is what I said about it:

"I took a look at the new reference, and I found that not only it doesn't back up your claim (that Naoko's statement is unclear) but also supports the opposite, ponting out that this argument (that Sailor Cosmos could be a Sailor Moon different from Usagi) has no basis. From the site:

Usagi is the only character who is thought of as the real Sailor Moon in the manga and anime. Sailor Chibi Moon does not officially get the title of Sailor Moon in those continuities. If there is not a good reason for us to think that Ms. Takeuchi meant to refer to another character besides Usagi when she said "Sailor Moon" at the Comic-Con, then there is no reason to think that she meant another person.) I responded to the arguments simply because I wished to show their weaknesses.

Sorry, but I'm removing the claim, as it is only an unsourced opinion. If the article implies that Usagi is Sailor Cosmos, so be it. Wikipedia doesn't really care about that (it's all about attribution), and even your reference supports it. Don't get mad at me, I just want the same as you do; the article to improve."

In your latest rewording you keep using this site to back up your claim, but, as I said before, that site is trying to prove the opposite. I think my complaint is justified. Who says Naoko's statement is unclear? This obviously needs a reference (explicitly stating that Naoko's statement is unclear). Kazu-kun 17:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Uh, that was my first attempt at finding a citation. You're making it sound like I think it's the only possible source. There's a ton of information about this, but it's all scattered across message boards instead of collected together in a website. Since we can't cite forums, I'm asking for help and waiting to see what people can come up with. You just chill until we figure something out. --Masamage ♫ 20:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This "You just chill" was a bit rude, but whatever. Tell you what, I don't think we can find reference for the claim that Naoko was unclear, but I do believe there's more than one site we could use to back up the claim that this topic (Usagi = Sailor Cosmos) is subject to debate. I'm all about rewording the paragraph to reflect that, once we get the references. Is that enough compromise for you? Kazu-kun 21:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I just hope Hitsuji Kinno gets back online soon, 'cause she's the one who knows what she's doing when it comes to this. --Masamage ♫ 23:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This should clear things up (I added this to the end of the sentance):, However it is Unknown if she is Usagi or Chibiusa, or just an Heir to the title. Its saying We don't know and have no way of knowing until she releases more info on her to us which is likely not going to happen. She says that she's Sailor Moon... But she doesn't say that she is Usagi or Chibiusa (Who we know takes the title, well sorta). She never said yes or no. Now isn't that VERY unclear for you? Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

*cough* *blushes*... umm... I was playing Sims 2 and creating Chibiusa Sim... ^^;; Beside the point... sorry for being AWOL. Kazu-kun brought up Ian Miller's site. He has several huge issues. (I should have written the references part better). First of all he uses references that are from the 70's. I debated with him once and I checked all his sources. He uses references dating from 1970's, 1980's and even a ffew from the 60's. He says he doesn't know any Japanese himself, never has taken a class in his life, and has pretty much antagonized the majority of he Sailormoon community... by proclaiming his theories are the right ones and never taking any advice or corrections from anyone else's but e-mailing everyone in sight whom he views wrong and "correcting them." This culminated in the greatest blunder when he insisted that "Ginzuishou" meant "silver water stone." failing to see that "zuishou" meant crystal and sulked on sailormoon.org in the late 1990's. Even with references from Japaese dictionaries, it's still posted on his website and he reposted it on newsgroups. So discount him as a source. Diies Gaudii has several huge problems, but I'll get around to arguing why with references on the references page. (He also created animosity towards me by e-mailing me, sulking, blocking me, posting my e-mail without my permission, then quoting this from the e-mail out of context and assuming my given name was"Kim" which was the funniest blunder I've seen to date (I bet he'd still insist my name is Kim--when I KNOW it's not...)--beside the point.

Getting back to subject, the point is that there IS a debate. You can check out my userpage I posted up everything I know up on there. This is why you can't be definitive. There are three different theories, and I can name te major people in the Sailormoon theory with these theories. First, Alex Glover argues that she is Usagi, as does Nishi Rajan. Both were well-known and often cited for their expertise on the subject. Particularly Nishi Rajan. Nishi Rajan was most cited in the 90's for herwell-laid out thory, howeverI met her face to face and she admits fully it's to be debated. Then there is Lunar Archivist, whose really nice about the whole thing and citation crazy. His Japanese isn't as good as Nisi Rajan, but he has really good search abilities, and uses up-to-date or primary sources and tries his hardest not to lan towards too much speculation. His theoy is much like Nishi Rajan, but with different theories. Yumeko of ASMR is also really good she knows her manga front and back very, very well. Her theory is the combination theory. She backs this up with lots of citation and sources. Paprini (who has a wikipedia user page, BTW), has her own theory, which she also cites with sources, and is a variation on the third theory. I've met and seen people with tons of theories, if you want a citation of all of them... I think that would take up the rest of the cosmos page. The large problem with the cosmos debate is that none of the fans who are experts on Sailormoon arealso experts on Japanese modes of communication. Hitoshi Doi is the closest, but doesn't really read the manga (I e-mailed him at the start of my Sailormoon fandom.) Dessa is also good for this too, but her theory is often in flux... well she's working on editing it so that all of the peices and siputes fit. Naoko has NEVER definitively stated that Sailor Cosmos is anyone. She just said she was Sailor Moon and that it was "complicated". This raises more questions than answers. This is why I ask her every year who Sailor Cosmos is. TT;; This year I couldn't because I had mounds of school work. *cries in corner*. I'm pushing people who meet her to ask, I asked Stu Levy whom I worked for as an intern before he went to Japan, but he couldn't ask her since she was busy. I pushed a friendin the animation industry to contact Tadano whom he met to ask Takeuchi-sensei. But he was reluctant. I'm now pushing Lunar Archivist to also ask Taeuchi when they set up the meeting, he's promised me to ask and get a direct answer. Above all, all these people, even Ian Miller, in his stubbornness all recognize that it's a debate. How do I know this? I e-mailed them. I asked them, I debated with them, and most of them had tons of fun doing it. It's a joke on sailormoon.org to debate about Sailor Cosmos.This is why it has to stay a debate, because most of the SM community has decided to wait for official confirmation from Takeuchi-sensei. Even if sh says she doesn't know or if she says she forgot, that's official. So I beg everyone to wait. I am pushing the right buttons to try to get an answer and get tat answer published. Other things to ask are crystal lore... an I doubt she thought about the timeline, because she mentioned it herself that she couldn't do it well. So wait it out instead of warring, keep the original text. If you have any questions, talk page me, I have all the references on my talk page that I could manage without burnout and have taken Japanese language and am taking Culture and Communication class.

P.S. Do you need me to beg Yumeko and Nishi Rajan to update their theories and citations? I can ask them... and whomever else you want. I was going to ask all the people I know to post their theories on my userpage dedicated to it. I can cancel that and ask them to just post it up on webspace.... --Hitsuji Kinno 15:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, the "Kazu-kun brought up Ian Miller's site" is a misunderstanding, as that site is the reference Masamage brought when I asked for it. But let's put that aside. I have never doubted that this is a controversial subject, which is the reason I said "I do believe there's more than one site we could use to back up the claim that this topic (Usagi = Sailor Cosmos) is subject to debate. I'm all about rewording the paragraph to reflect that". I personally believe that Usagi is Sailor Cosmos, but the issue was more about references and wording. My initial complaint was specifically about this unsourced statement: "It is unclear, however, whether the "future Sailor Moon" Takeuchi was referring to is Usagi herself or an heir to the title." But who says Naoko is unclear? Even if every SM fan thinks that way, without reference, such statemet is just original research. Now this has been reworded, so there's really no point on discussing it further, but I wanted to get that clear. The paragraph, though, still needs some work, specially to get rid of the "however", which is used in that way wikipedia says is a big "no no".1 I'll give it a try later and see what I can come up with.

Also, I want to thank Hitsuji Kinno for being such a nice girl. Everyone else pretty much wanted to kill me for the sole mention of the Sailor Cosmos issue (j/k).^^ Kazu-kun 21:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I told you that I knew his arguments were crummy. Like I said then, I was only proving that it was something being discussed. --Masamage ♫ 22:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I've replaced the stuff about an heir to the title with a general statement saying "there are multiple theories in SM fandom as to what this means". I figure if we state this, then cite some of the multiple theories but not discuss them, then we should be right - staying out of OR, POV, and CRUFT.-Malkinann 23:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I never wanted to kill you, I just gave you fair warning that the debate was old and unlikely to be resolved this time around. ^_^ JuJube 00:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

For someone in culture and communication class, I don't think anyone wanted to kill you. Reading between the lines I think what was said and done were not congruent. Masamage merely wanted you to realize there was a debate, however you were asking for solid references. Neither of you seemed t be able to see what the other person wanted. I strongly suggest next time you bring it up on the talk page, work it out then make the edits. When I disagree with something, I bring it up on the talk page before making edits... just a general note... I believe that as Masamage's problem with your behavior. *shrugs* My last paper was on paralinguistics of the internet. Be free to correct me there. In the end it saves a lot of time. i.e. Why can't we all just get along?--Hitsuji Kinno 02:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Are people happy with my idea of a compromise? ("There are multiple theories in the Sailor Moon fandom as to what this means.[citation needed] ") As it hasn't been reverted multiple times, I'm assuming so. Kitsuji Kinno, could you pretty-please get the Sailor Cosmos theorists to publish their theories on a website, so we can go "as to what this means. [cite theory 1][cite theory2][cite theory 3]"?? To my mind, this would be proving that there are multiple theories, without indulging in theorising on the page itself and it'd give people who are interested in Sailor Cosmos's identity a jumping-off point. -Malkinann 12:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's a very good idea. Just putting it somewhere on an external website so we can cite that and be done with it would help a lot. --Masamage ♫ 17:09, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Sure, here is one... http://www.usagiandmamoru.com/cosmos/ (most cited for the is Usagi fan camp). Lunar Archivist is still working on typing up his (Variant of 1), Ian Miller probably should be discounted due to several factors (His version is 4)... Dessa promised to work on hers but it's a bit slow going (this is outliar theory that started on theory 4), I'll ask Papirini (Combination theory) and I'm not sure about Yumeko (She knows her stuff, but she's not apt to type up the whole thing.). Alex Glover has kind of dropped out of the SM community a bit (He also has some trouble remembering what he translated sometimes... like he forgot he translated the fact about Ogata Megumi hooking up Takuchi and Togashi... ^^;;). Unfortunately theory 2 and 4 in their pure forms had the majority of the people leave that camp for either 1 or 3... I have no idea why, but I'm fairly sure there are still some people who believe she's not related at all and that she's just a descendant. Ken Aromdee isn't qualified as well as Hitoshi Doi. I did start the debate on ASMR which should be cataloged but that's not objective enough for a Wikipedia page since I participated. I'll see if I can push people to do it a bit faster. --Hitsuji Kinno 20:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, we can cite something you worked on. The only stipulation is that people other than you have to want to use it, which frankly I don't anticipate being a problem. ^^ That looks like a solid citation for the Usagi theory. I thought Ian Miller fell in that camp too? --Masamage ♫ 20:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

He might have changed his theory a bit... but he's not creditable... I'll see what I can dig up first, if we have to, we'll cite him too. Dessa said she'd do hers (roughly parallel universe time possibility character from the future...which does have standing on the manga timeline theory, which has a tarot card basis and circumvents the crystal lore problems). I'll ask Papirini and Lunar Archivist. Lunar Archivist has a variety of theory 1. Finding other people who support theory 2 and 4 is going to be difficult though. Among the older fan community theory 3 is more popular among the manga fanatics. The newer camp likes 1 more. 2 and 4 have kind of dropped to the wayside.... I no longer know anyone who supports these (descendant and not related theories respectively). Yumeko argued one with a twist (she twisted crystal lore to argue that there are two ginzuishou... therefore making it possible)... but I'm not sure linking message boards is wise. Several of her theories are actually pretty well laid out.--Hitsuji Kinno 22:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Reset indent, note that Dessa said that hers can't be finished until she's done organizing for the con in Seattle. (She's on the board so she's doing finances). (She'd be part of the fourth theory). She has a large part of it done. Papirini also volunteered, but it'll take a while (Combination), and I'm still waiting for Lunar Archivist (variation of it, timeline dependent.) to show up. Should we also include message board stuff, or is that too fan crufty to include as reference? --Hitsuji Kinno 13:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe the article of mine Hitsuji mentioned has already been incorporated into the article on Sailor Cosmos since her comment, but just to emphasize one subtle point that's gone unnoticed...

Even if we assume that Naoko Takeuchi "forgot" the rule about two individuals being unable to coexist in the same time period (which is a completely valid argument), what we can't ignore is the fact that the grandfather paradox is in effect. When the revived Tuxedo Mask committed suicide on command by hurling himself into the Galaxy Cauldron, this immediately caused Sailor Chibi Moon to be erased from existence since, with Mamoru dead, she would never be conceived in the first place. By extension, this means that every future heir to the title of Sailor Moon related to Chibi Usa by blood would also cease to exist. However, Sailor Cosmos does not seem to be affected at all. This can only mean one of three things:

• Sailor Cosmos is so powerful that she can singlehandedly prevent the grandfather paradox from affecting her.
• If Sailor Cosmos is a direct descendent of Usagi Tsukino, then she is related only to Usagi by blood and not to Mamoru or Chibi Usa. Barring an immaculate conception, this implies that Usagi would eventually remarry and that Sailor Cosmos would be fathered by an undisclosed male third party.
• Sailor Cosmos is either a reincarnated Usagi Tsukino or future reincarnation of Princess Serenity. This means that Sailor Cosmos and Sailor Moon share the same animating force/life force/soul/spirit/whatever but not the same physical body.

Hopeless romantic that I am, I'm voting for number three, if only because I believe that I doubt Usagi would ever fall in love with or have children by anyone else other than Mamoru. ^_^ Lunar Archivist (talk) 19:48, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sailor Moon Timeline?

Something to think about after we have most of the pages up to code... Precedents:

• Chronology_of_the_Doctor_Who_universe
• List_of_fictional_timelines

We can bring out our inner geeks, and talk about paradoxes, etc. Also It might entice Lunar Archivist to join this project who is the master of such things.--Hitsuji Kinno 21:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

That would be super-fun, but it scares the crap out of me! XD --Masamage ♫ 21:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

True, which is why we'd do it when we're bored, AND we'd have to start 3 separate pages too.. one for manga, one for anime, one for PGSM. --Hitsuji Kinno 03:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Eek, surely not? Look how insane the Doctor Who one is. I'm sure we could just have spearate sections for each series. --Masamage ♫ 04:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not keen on this idea... even with just the anime timeline, we'd probably have to decide what the heck happened when Usagi made her wish to be normal again... did the whole world get turned back a year, or what? It'd have to be painstakingly researched in order to avoid OR, it'd cause a lot of energy-draining-drama, and even then I think Takeuchi said she'd flubbed the timeline.-Malkinann 15:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

there was a play in the alen arc with the dark kingdom charicters in it so the civilans remember what happend ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 16:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, really? When is that? The only play I remember is the Snow White one, and not very clearly. --Masamage ♫ 19:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

its the one with the four headed monster and the penultimate episode of the alen arc ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 22:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem though is that the anime disregards the Ail and En arc in the SuperS Specials. I was just putting this idea out there. I doubt we'd get to it for several years.--Hitsuji Kinno 19:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Some parts of it need to be recognized, though, like how all the Senshi have their memories back before the beginning of the Black Moon arc. I think using it to assume the civilians remember the Dark Kingdom is probably safe. But yeah, I think this would be fun to have as a later goal, once we've cleared out some of our current projects. --Masamage ♫ 20:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I should note that the Doctor Who one is up for being featured... so that's why it looks so intimidating. I know that fans of Doctor Who work on that kind of thing for *years* since the series started, which was back in the early 60's. Sailor Moon has barely reached it's 10th anniversary... so you cn see why Doctor Who looks like that.--Hitsuji Kinno 20:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, SM has passed its 15th anniversary in Japan. --  Denelson83  03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

But only 10 years since it was completed, which is probably what she meant. I guess that's more a coming-of-age-day? --Masamage ♫ 05:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

You'll also notice that clicking on most of the redlinks on that page gives you a 'this article has been deleted. are you SURE you want to recreate it?' message... Which doesn't bode well, I think. We could work on a copy in wikiproject-space and then launch it? -Malkinann 01:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

That's a good idea, yeah. Later, though? --Masamage ♫ 01:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this is a good idea. While Doctor Who, even though it is *very* contradictory within its own canon, at least tries to give dates and time estimates, Sailor Moon pretty much never does this. I think it would be impossible to write a fact-based article on most of its timeline just due to the fact that the series own lack of clarity makes timeline estimates a choice on what theory you subscribe to (i.e. did time rewind after the Dark Kingdom arc?) Rebochan 20:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

We'll deal with that too *when we get done with what we have* first. This is a future, future, future project... after we've got what we want done in front of us done. As for dates, time lines don't have to be specific dates. It can also be a choronology of rough events. The Materials Collection actually *does* give a rough timeline to start off with, so it won't be *too* difficult. --Hitsuji Kinno 00:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it would be a relative timeline. (Also, the first-arc issue wouldn't be that hard; it definitely doesn't reset in the manga, and for the anime, we can just say "time may or may not roll back at this point" and talk about why that might be. When in doubt, just say what you know.) --Masamage ♫ 01:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

After several years of work in my spare time, I've actually managed to create a fixed timeline for the manga version. Granted, it's not completely devoid of a few assumptions, educated guesses, and speculation, but it is internally consistent, follows a series of self-imposed guidelines with minimal bending of the rules, makes heavy use of in-series evidence, is extensively annotated (over 270 references) and incorporates all events from Codename: Sailor V and Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon (including side stories) as well as other series which ostensibly take place within the same fictional universe, such as Maria and The Cherry Project. Without getting into too much detail, the events from Codename: Sailor V and Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon predominantly take place between May 1992 and September/October 1995 and Chibi Usa originally came from the year 2902.

I'm currently working on an extremely rough draft for a fixed timeline for the live-action version. The definitive version for the anime series is only in its planning stage, but will be a floating timeline, as opposed to the other two. Hitsuji already knows about quite a bit of this, but Malkinann and Masamage, the two of you should talk to me via instant messaging so we can talk. I'll leave my contact information in my online profile. :) Lunar Archivist (talk) 17:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unlaunched Manga article

Is anyone currently working on this? I have a couple of ideas of how it could be improved, like volume covers and comparisons to the anime for starters. This is something I'd definately be up on working on and improving. Zemalia 15:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Hitsuji wanted to head that up; specifically, it'd be analogous to the List of Sailor Moon episodes article. We do already have a Sailor Moon (manga) article, though, and it could probably use some expansion. :) What did you have in mind? (Comparisons between the two would, I think, be most useful in the individual Story Arc articles, which also need lots and lots of help.) --Masamage ♫ 17:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, it does look like it could use some clean up and additions. I think a manga/anime comparison would be a fantastic add on, but I'm not sure where to put it: within the acts, or as a seperate sub-header. Also, maybe a section on the re-release. It would help clean up a couple of the volume sections and there are a couple of things that could be added to it, such as the fact that special extras such as postcards and stickers were included with the re-releases. What do you think?Zemalia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zemalia (talk • contribs) 19:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

So far we've kinda tried to avoid getting into too much plot in either that article or in Sailor Moon (anime), mainly because there's just too much info to cram in there, and because they'd overlap eachother; that's why we went with the five individual arc pages, which already feature comparisons between the two series (see Sailor Stars), although again, everything can be improved. We've also talked about creating a side-stories page for stuff like the SuperS specials, Chibiusa's Picture Diaries, etc.

Meanwhile, I love the idea of creating a section for the rerelease--we are definitely sorely lacking in info on that, and shame on us for it. :) I'd say if you want to help with that, by all means, dive in. I'll try to help out too, with what I know, and Hitsuji and others would be good contributors as well. --Masamage ♫ 20:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I finished the base information--that's not the issue. The issue is that I have no idea where to place it, and no concrete decisions were made. Since the idea for individual Sailor Moon episodes was thrown out, then idea of doing them by volume was also thrown out. Putting them under by arc will look messy... I think there was a test page. So I'm basically waiting for the consensus on what to do with said typed out information. To my credit I did put it up and I dumped it from my Sailor Moon Manga FAQ. Shinsouban information included. Any ideas, I'll welcome... it's all there, it's on wikipedia, now where to put it...--Hitsuji Kinno 01:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Check this out... List of Naruto chapters (Part I)... how does that look for a model? -Malkinann 10:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a discussion at WT:ANIME currently about developing a template analogous to the {{Japanese episode list}}, but for manga chapters. Please participate here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga#Discussion_of_format_for_Lists_of_chapters -Malkinann (talk) 22:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The new template is {{Graphic novel list}} - does it look like it will serve our purposes? -Malkinann (talk) 21:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I didn't want to interfere with the manga page, but I thought all the chapters of Sailor Moon should be listed somewhere, so I made List of Sailor Moon chapters. I own all the manga, so it wasn't much trouble compiling all the data. I can also make a page for all the ani-mangas that were made as well if anyone is interested.Grapeofdeath (talk) 23:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow! Thank you very much for all your hard work on that!  :D I can only think of about four things that would improve the page - a longer lead, that it should include the 2003 Japanese republished edition somehow (we may have to ask at the anime project for help on that anyway), MOAR pink (okay, kind of optional, but still!), and that we should write volume summaries. -Malkinann (talk) 07:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not very good at summarizing things, so these would be very hard for me. I wouldn't mind anyone else helping with them. If there's anything else that you need a large amount of data compiled into lists and tables, I can always try to work on that. This could include trying to find the english air dates for the series, but I'm not sure if anyone wants that table to be messed with.Grapeofdeath (talk) 05:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't expecting you to do the summaries - we can all do the summaries from the project subpage. I think that we should probably try and find the original English airdates for the List of Sailor Moon episodes, but the trouble is finding a reliable source which states the original air dates, not just the US airdates (as SM also aired in Canada). Another page which could be tabularised is Sailor Moon musicals - on that talk page there's been an attempt for some time to adapt {{Japanese episode list}} for the musicals, but there's been a halt on that discussion for what kind of information should be presented in the tables (dates or seasons, for example). -Malkinann (talk) 00:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Many people have been able to get around that by putting English Airdate into their table, so it doesn't matter which country it was in first as long as it was in english. So far this is the best page I've found so far: http://epguides.com/SailorMoon/ I've found several other pages, even imdb, and they all seems to have the same dates. Would these be acceptable? Grapeofdeath (talk) 02:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Really? That's annoying. I'd strongly prefer the original English airdates, if we can find them. That source isn't really appropriate, because it's confusing to read (just check out what happens for episode 200 - all six or so of them...) and doesn't have the correct titles. Unfortunately, SM Uncensored doesn't have the airdates set up in a convenient format. -Malkinann (talk) 05:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

So, the new article makes the chapter-list at Sailor Moon (manga) obsolete. I guess we should clear the redundancy out of there, huh? --Masamage ♫ 18:04, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Guess so. The information on the side-stories should stay in there for now, though. -Malkinann (talk) 00:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

You might just substitute something like this for lists of the isbns: "These chapters were originally collected in volumes 1-4 and re-released in Shinsōban collections 1-3." Grapeofdeath (talk) 02:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re-updating the character articles

Hallo! Two items of business!

At WT:ANIME they've discussed delisting our GAs, because the guidelines have been changed to require more out-of-universe info (on character design, reception, and so forth). I was able to beg them off by telling them there is in fact tons of such info and that I know where to get it, which is entirely true. Now that NaNoWriMo is over and I have no classes to be busy with, I figure we'd better get on that. :) So I'll be running a bunch of updates.

Item 1: We need to introduce a specific section for character development and response. So...what's a good name? Actually, "Development and response" seems pretty good, but tell me your thoughts.

Item 2: I think we should remove the height guesses. It's not really appropriate to be citing some laypersons's rough estimate (even if he is important in fandom) when actually these numbers are totally unofficial. Certainly we can mention Makoto and Haruka being insanely tall, and Chibiusa being very very short, but does it really matter whether Minako is a few centimeters taller than Rei?

So those are my thoughts for now. There'll be more later; I want to get a bunch done this winter break. This is just the obvious place to start. :) Masamage ♫ --07:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

How about "Conception and creation" and/or "Reception"? They're shorter, and more to the point. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 08:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Those first two both sound in-universe, which makes 'conception' in particular an awkward, awkward word. X) 'Reception' is better than 'response', though. "Development and reception"? --Masamage ♫ 08:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I think they want two sections, one for "Development" and one for "Reception". -Malkinann 10:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Hm, while scrolling through the net, I found this image [1] and some others. Maybe its the development sketch?--Hanaichi 11:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a sketch for the anime artists to work from. Her development sketches are mostly in the Materials Collection (which is available here and which I own). There's also some awesome development info in the author notes to the old manga as well as the rereleased ones, a lot of which we already have or know where to find. --Masamage ♫ 18:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've experimentally merged a bunch of new and old information into Sailor Mercury#Development, for a start. How does it look? Are we missing anything obvious? --Masamage ♫ 21:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't like it - it's partially me not liking the change, but I think the jury's still out on whether a separate development section is explicitly needed, or whether the information can just be interspersed at appropriate places (which seems to me to be the more natural way of mentioning things). I think the plan of the new anime character guideline is to put stacks of emphasis on Reception anyway.-Malkinann 22:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, I'm responding largely to discussion of delisting us over at WT:ANIME. They seemed specifically concerned about the character development, so that's where I'm spooked. WP:MOS-AM doesn't say anything specifically about character pages, but it does say that series pages should have a Production section, and this seems analogous to me. Also I poked into some character FAs (like Padme Amidala) and found this section.

On another note, Malkinann, do you own that Warriors of Legend book? --Masamage ♫ 01:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Boo to the de-listing. I think the development section looks like a good start, but maybe we could add the pictures in from the materials collection to make it look even nicer? Many FA class articles have around three to four pictures and I think it would definitely help the article as a whole. As for more out of universe information, are there any interviews done with the live actors or voice actors about their characters and how they feel about them or interpret them? Because that would be AWESOME content. Zemalia 02:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Good thought; I'll look around for some interviews. (There's an awesome one for Megumi Ogata, but I don't know about anyone else.) Not sure about the images, though--I'm pretty nervous about as many as we have. The Padme article (for example) has four fair-use shots, which is the current number on Ami's article. On the other hand, that really does seem like a notable image to include. I don't know. --Masamage ♫ 02:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC) UPDATE: Oooh, here we go. Some good stuff in the Volume Infinity comments. --Masamage ♫ 02:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Another thing for the reception section! There were annual popularity contests held by the magazines, weren't they? That would definitely be some out of universe content! Also, I'm looking through news sites for articles on how the characters have been recieved. Zemalia 03:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

We can always take any delisting to WP:GAR if we feel that the process was not followed. I don't own Warriors of Legend. The conversation at the anime manual of style talk page seems to be focussed on character Reception sections. (and what, exactly does a 'sales figure' mean in terms of a character? etc.) We could perhaps put the 'early designs' image at Sailor Senshi? I've asked at Wikimoon ages ago if anyone knew if the annual popularity contest results were recorded, and I've recieved no response. -Malkinann 05:30, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead with removing the height estimates (Usagi's stays, of course, because it's actually given.) Is there any objection to repeating the modification to Ami's article on everyone else's? If so, what can be done to alleviate it? --Masamage ♫ 21:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess I'm just concerned that if "Reception/influence" is supposed to be "the meat of (the character's) notability." (Anime MOS talk page), that perhaps Reception should be where we focus our efforts (as we already do have development information within the articles.. it's just interspersed with other information.) -Malkinann (talk) 23:23, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we definitely need both. But I worry people aren't finding the development info, because even though we've worked hard to put it there, they keep complaining. --Masamage ♫ 00:06, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Even though I actually borrowed a book from the library for Mako-chan's... :( sigh Let's give these development sections a go, then. And then we'll see about "Reception", which in the latest draft reads: "Out-of-universe information on responses to, popularity of, and influences upon others. Appearences in other works, poll results, sales figures, etc. are all valid topics here, as are reviews, critical essays, and academic analysis." Thus far, all I've been able to think of is that Rei Ayanami is named after Our Rei. -Malkinann (talk) 10:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

If it helps I have the popularity rankings from the manga... The trouble is that Japanese separate the different forms of the characters as separate. That should be added to the articles too.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 05:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC) P.S. They want to delist our character articles because they are jealous. *jk* ^.~ We did set the bar up fairly high too.

That sounds great! And yeah, it could be listed easily like "She was ranked Xth as Ami and Xth as Sailor Mercury" or something similar. --Masamage ♫ 06:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

To cut time, I'll give the full rankings...

Volume 3

1. Sailor Moon 59,100
2. Sailor Venus 44, 828
3. Princess Serenity 43365
4. Sailor Mercury 34034
5. Sailor Jupiter 33225
6. Tsukino Usagi 31882
7. Mizuno Ami 27757
8. Luna 20707
9. Sailor V 20707
10. Aino Minako 20610
11. Kino makoto 16988
12. Tuxedo Mask 14850
13. Hino Rei 14805
14. Sailor Mars 13928
15. Endymion 12307
16. Chiba Mamoru 9983
17. Artemis 7462
18. Queen Serenity 7335
19. Osaka Naru 4448
20. Jadeite 3202

This one goes to 38. The last one is listed as 198.

Volume 7

1. Chibiusa-76,214
2. Sailor Moon-70,965
3. Neo Queen Serenity 48,743
4. Sailor Pluto 45,150
5. Aino Minako 39,923
6. Tsukino Usagi 38,265
7. Sailor Venus 37,407
8. Ami Mizuno 29,823
9. Sailor Mercury 27,502
10. Sailor V 25,908
11. Sailor Jupiter 22,130
12. Kino Makoto 20,844
13. Black Lady 18,680
14. Sailor Mars 17,166
15. Hino Rei 14,680
16. Diana 12,154
17. Luna P 10,570
18. King Endymion
19. Beruche
20. Tuxedo Mask
21. Chiba Mamoru
22. Luna
23. Osaka Naru
24. Esumerade
25. Momo-chan
26. Artemis
27. Sarashina Kotono
28. Prince Diamond
29. Unatsuki
30. Cooan
31. Saffir
32. Asamema Itsutou

This one goes to 50. last character has 198. (It has all the numbers too) You can see the jump in readership, especially considering the increase in the number of characters. It's a bit sad because Umino outranks Mama every time... but there is a definite leaning towards female characters and transformed states. Volume 13 shows where it was being shipped to at the time it was published. That's main page stuff though. There are at least one other, but I can't seem to find it right now. I know that Pallapalla ranked high. That magazine that Ami was in might also be worth a mention from the liner notes. AND maybe something about the Seiyuu voicing the particular character? Like what kind of work went into it? There is a few memorial books that supposedly discuss that. For example Mitsuishi-san said that she had to rev up originally to voice Usagi. Her favorite scene from the time of the interview was Super where Usagi was trying to transform. Hisakawa-san said that she wanted to make Ami more than a girl genius. Takeuchi-sensei also mentioned that she went shopping with them and they had an influence on the Exam battles and building of the characters. So would that count also? If we're going to do this we may as well go over the top...--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 18:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

w00t! Thank you! :D Yes, all of those things sound great. I've actually been trying to incorporate actress information into the 'Actress' sections (like in Sailor Mercury), so more of that would be fun. --Masamage ♫ 19:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I suggest if interviews with actresses is needed, I found one done by Hyper Hobby interviewing Nao Takagi and Yuhka Asami, the longest Sailor Uranus and Neptune in the musicals here [2]. I think at one point Nao said in the omake of her last musical (Mugen Gakuen) that acting as Haruka for 5 years got to know herself better. I'll go dig up more information, theres heaps somewhere out there.--Hanaichi 03:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I've had a go at incorporating the popularity polls for Naru Osaka, is that the correct way of doing so? -Malkinann (talk) 23:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hm. Technically yes, it looks good, but I wonder if her rankings are high enough in comparison for it to really be noteworthy? There's probably a golden ratio of some kind. --Masamage ♫ 05:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I reckoned it was some of the real world information that we're supposed to try to add to the list of minor characters when we can. I've also put Rei's popularity figures in her article. -Malkinann (talk) 06:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, hm. That could be. Maybe say out-of-how-many voters, then? That'd help with the context. (Looks like 38 and 50 characters in the two surveys respectively, but I'm not sure I'm reading that right. I'll check my own copy of v.7 tomorrow, too. My v.3 is in English, so it's unlikely to be helpful.) --Masamage ♫ 06:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

So, heads-up: tomorrow I'll take a whack at giving some of the other Senshi their development sections. We'll see how far I get. --Masamage ♫ 05:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

So far, the anime/manga mos talk page likes Sailor Mercury's development section. -Malkinann (talk) 06:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Aww, neat! Thanks for pointing that out. ^_^ --Masamage ♫ 06:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, is it just me, or does the new WP:FICT seem to say that the very existance of merchandise is an indicator of notability in itself? (without needing sales figures of said merchandise) -Malkinann (talk) 09:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Huh. One could certainly make an argument to that effect. I wonder how to cite the merchandise stuff.

In other news, all of the Inner Senshi now have Development sections. I almost did Mamoru next, but I was scared off by how lousy his bio is. It's like three reorgs behind. X) Oh well, I'll take a break to run some other errands and think about how the Outers' new sections should be developed. It'll be structured a little differently because they were based on the existing Senshi rather than being invented entirely on their own; there'll be a little less exciting information available. There's still some, though. --Masamage ♫ 01:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I bit the bullet and asked at WT:FICT... might be good if we kept an eye on that. I've started off some Reception sections with the poll results. -Malkinann (talk) 01:34, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, need some help here. I cannot find any development information on the Outer Senshi. I've just dug through all of the artbooks (including Infinity, which might have some if the text weren't untranslated, and the Materials Collection). All I can find is that Michiru's hair is supposed to look like seaweed, and that Setsuna once wore a dress seen in a Naomi Campbell shot. There are "development" paintings of Haruka and Michiru, in which Naoko says their faces and personalities are all wrong, but it's the sort of spirit-detail only the artist can see. She doesn't say exactly what's off about them.

So do we have any other handy sources? Interviews? Something? --Masamage ♫ 19:22, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Haruka would be the easiest of the four, I think - apparently in some Italian magazine called Kappa she explicitly said that Haruka was based on the Takarazuka male-role players Also, according to Wikimoon, before Takeuchi made the Outers, she was sent fanart of Otaku Senshi Outers. They attribute this to her liner notes in volume 10. We could talk about, for Sets, that in the manga she was a student at KO, but this was scrapped in the anime. Or that Hotaru was a cyborg in the manga, but wasn't strongly implied to be so in the anime. -Malkinann (talk) 21:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Haruka was fairly easy--thanks for the great link! I've also managed a slightly shorter, but still substantial, section for Michiru. Onward~ --Masamage ♫ 19:48, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

There's a rather lengthy German anime/manga article I translated many years ago but never posted online which also mentions the Takarazuka angle. I believe Naoko said she wanted to create a composite character - the best female friend and fairy tale prince all rolled into one - and that Haruka Ten'ou was the end product of that desire. She also made a reference to this during her question and answer panel at the 1998 San Diego Comic Con, and said that Haruka and Michiru were meant to be two opposite but complementary characters. This was reiterated, I believe, in a sidebar panel featuring rough sketches of the characters from one of the volumes of the manga. Lunar Archivist (talk) 21:39, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! I don't suppose you could publish your translation on Sheer Lunacy! some time? It'd make it a lot easier to cite if it was online somewhere. -Malkinann (talk) 02:29, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that the interview got lost somewhere in all my crap. However, here's a quick and dirty retranslation of the passage in question (the boldface emphasis is mine). Kind of crude, but I think the gist of it is clear:

A: Why are there so many female characters in the series?

N.T.: That's simply a question of personal taste - I like drawing girls a lot more. Now, I can't claim that I don't like men (laughs), but there's simply nothing that's as much fun for me as drawing women. My editor is already always complaining that I should incorporate more pretty boys since they're shoujo manga, after all...

A: So was Haruka a compromise in this direction?

N.T.: A little (laughs). Haruka is the more dominant personality of the two, she's more active in the foreground than Michiru, who rather placidly, but strongly, remains in the background. Since all of the Sailor Soldiers are still relatively young girls that sometimes don't really known what they should do, I wanted to create a kind of big sister figure for them. Someone to whom they could turn when they don't know how to proceed, but who could also say a few clear words to them if necessary. Of course, the very unique role of the two as Sailor Soldiers then comes into play as well. Characters like Haruka, these rough, masculine women, a little like the actresses who portray men in Takarazuka theater, are greatly loved in Japan, particularly among female audiences as well. They embody the female best friend and the fairy tale prince in one, so to speak. I long had the desire to integrate such a character into one of my works. This as opposed to Mamoru, who - in the manga - completely represents my personal ideal of a man: strong, silent, unshakable - a little like Captain Harlock...

This interview first appeared in the July/August 1999 issue (alternatively known as either Issue 4/99 or Issue 30) of the German anime/manga magazine AnimaniA. The interview took place in Paris, France while Naoko Takeuchi and Go Nagai were attending the "Animation Days of the Japanese Cultural Institute" event there that was dedicated to them. The translator was Mrs. Okishita from Kodansha and the interviewer was Stefanie Holzer, the publication's then subtitute editor-in-chief. The magazine was published by Weird Visions Media Verlags- und Medienvertriebs GmbH (Weird Visions Media Publishing and Distribution L.L.C.). Lunar Archivist (talk) 05:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Thank you for quickly translating it - I'm afraid it's only whetted my appetite for the whole thing, but I can wait... ;) This might seem like a dumb question, but does the interview itself have a title? "Interview with Naoko Takeuchi" or whatever - the citation template isn't displaying properly without it. :( -Malkinann (talk) 08:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

• Holzer, Stefanie; Mrs. Okishita from Kodansha (translator) (July / August 1999). "Interview mit Naoko Takeuchi". AnimaniA (30). 

Oddly enough, the title of the article is exactly what you said (or the German equivalent thereof, anyway). :) I've updated the citation template above by making a few quick corrections, one being to the spelling of the interviewer (she writes "Stephanie" the German way, i.e. with an "f" rather than a "ph") and correcting my inadvertent misspelling of the translator's name (it's "Okishita" with two is and not "Okashita" with two as). I suggest we consider leaving the latter out, though, since we don't know her full name. Also, while I'm confident my own translation of the interview is accurate, I strongly suggest we paraphrase rather than quote directly considering that the "translation telephone game" is taking place here, i.e. this is the English translation of the German translation of the Japanese original. ^_^ Lunar Archivist (talk) 06:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

We are already quoting the English translation of the Kappa interview, too. I just thought that was a really cool phrase - female best friend and fairy tale prince in one. I've chucked it in, and the "complementary yet opposite" stuff below. I'm not so good at paraphrasing, and they're just so good! -Malkinann (talk) 02:05, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

On a related note, the information on the side panel from Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon Volume 9, Act 29, Page 31, reads:

Haruka Ten'ou

In Grade 10 at Juuban Senior High School.

Born on January 27th.

Aquarius. (16 years old)

Inseparable friend of Michiru, in whom she has total confidence. Accompanies Michiru on the piano when she plays the violin.

Michiru Kaiou

In Grade 10 at S Private Girls' School.

Born on March 6th.

Pisces. (16 years old)

She supports Haruka.

Two opposite and complementary characters.

Rough sketches taken from one of the first drafts, November '93.

While this is a translation from the French version and information from an early draft of the characters, we can ignore the information about their academic backgrounds but the remaining details seem to fit the official canonical versions of both characters. Lunar Archivist (talk) 11:45, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Seiyuu...

http://www.seiyuu.com/megumi/v2i02.htm

Mitsuishi talks about Usagi there. Just a litytle, but it mentions how she and Takeuchi were close enough for her to see the new designs...

http://www.sailormoon.ws/archives/111203.html

Han Keiko on Sailor Moon.

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=zIZP2Kwv-Jk Mitsuishi Kotono... (yay! The psyche herself up is here too), Furuya Tohru, Han Keiko (Wow... they told her to play her like a human from the start...) http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=39pXClkZoqc Naru, Hisakawa Aya, Tomizawa Michie... This is enough to make you want to watch the whole series over again... Ok amusement... not translated. http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=3sKnHm-xKOw http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=l_jgM9bJv_M These are goldmind...

http://www.movietome.com/people/115449/rica-fukami/trivia.html The quote about injuring her vocal chords. But when was that?

I'll add others as I find them. --Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 07:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

There are now four other GA-rated character articles - Sakura Haruno, Sasuke Uchiha and Yamucha being the most recent. Is there anything on their pages that's missing for the Inner Senshi? -Malkinann (talk) 02:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm comparing Sasuke and Ami, Appearances in other media seem to be missing in Mercury's article. Also, maybe some mention of toys and figures should be added. I know there are Gashapon figures out there (and I do have them!) and numerous items depicting the senshi produced. Then there is the plot overview, which hasn't been added to any senshi article, which is in line with WP:PLOT, although a brief one might suffice. Other then that, everything else is OK.--Hanaichi 09:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Isn't their "appearances in other media" limited to the Naruto video games, though? and a fan doujin for Yamcha. It seems that Amazon is considered enough of a RS for GA, though, which is good... Unless there are any fansites devoted to Sailor Moon merchandise we could cite? -Malkinann (talk) 09:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Naoko Takeuchi's appearance at the 1998 San Diego Comic Convention

I'm not quite sure this merits its own section, but considering that it may answer several questions that have been floating around Sailor Moon fan circles for the past decade or so, I figure it's worth a shot mentioning here. It'll also give us an opportunity to clear up one misconception about the event that's been bugging me ever since it the first article summarizing it was written.

Back in 1998, I attended the question and answer panel that Naoko Takeuchi gave and made an audio recording of the entire session from the front row, something which, while I've mentioned it elsewhere before, is not widely known. Unfortunately, a combination of a crappy tape recorder, background noise and static, Naoko's soft-spokeness, and her not speaking directly into the microphone more often than not have resulted in her being unintelligible most of the time. I would be willing to provide an electronic copy of the recording (or a hard copy if I can access duplication equipment) to anyone with either access to professional audio processing equipment and/or the technical knowhow who'd be willing to take a crack at the thankless task of cleaning it up.

This recording would prove valuable to WikiProject Sailor Moon because it would allow our Japanese-speaking members to directly translate what Naoko Takeuchi said. All existing articles and individuals that I know of that have quoted something she said during this event - myself included - are technically relying on the accuracy of the panel's resident translator, Stu Levy. While I doubt he purposely mistranslated anything she said, given the dubious track record of MixxZine/Tokyopop, I'd prefer a second option just to be sure. Also, since several long-standing questions and controversies - such as Haruka and Michiru's relationship and Sailor Cosmos' identity - were directly addressed by Naoko, we could potentially put these arguments to rest.

So, if anyone's interested in this, use the contact information in my profile to drop me a line or post a comment here so we can figure out how to proceed. Lunar Archivist (talk) 21:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notes on the series

I'm doing it for my website... but I thought the project might also be interested. For example in the second half of R, second episode, Usagi calls Chibiusa, Chibiusa first, which contradicts the manga. Mamoru is second, *then* Chibiusa objects and *only* accepts it when Mamoru calls her that... and gives his justification. Ami's dream to be a doctor is in the third episode, where its mentioned "to be like her mother." Ami directly says she's indecisive, especially when it comes to tough decisions. Chibiusa also directly says, "I'm not a kid anymore." which may or may not be a reference to her age. I'm also collecting the attacks of the enemies as I go, such as "Dark Power" and "Kooan Dark Power flip" and "Dark Fire" fro Kooan. I'm also catching sub mistakes on the ADV boxset, such as "Moon Princess Elimination" and using "D'oh" for Dara on Usagi... Is there anything else I should watch for that you guys want?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 18:07, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Signature color

Someone is going through the character bios and adding signature colors. This strikes me as fancruft, besides already being represented in our infoboxes and first appearance boxes. Should it be removed? --Masamage ♫ 00:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I do have a feeling its fancruft. Just because all of the senshi aura, uniform, and normal clothes represents their planet colour (save for ChibiMoon and Mamoru), doesn't mean its the signature colour. Unless its outrightly stated by a reliable source or Naoko, I don't think it should be there so I'll remove it for the time being.--Hanaichi 02:10, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, it's definitely not OR. Naoko states all their signature colors in the Materials Collection. --Masamage ♫ 02:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

LOL I shall go revert my edits. Maybe move it to the development section is a better idea?--Hanaichi 02:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Welllll, I personally still don't like having it there, actually. X) It's just that OR isn't my reason; cruft is. What is a "signature color" anyway? Who cares? What does it tell you that looking at their uniform doesn't? --Masamage ♫ 03:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention their hair X.X--Hanaichi 03:04, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Not to say put it back in, but it was mentioned for a reason... ^^;; I did some research after Takeuchi-sensei said she believed in astrology and reading "lucky color" type stuff from Cherry Project. For example, in the gemstones.. each has a "personality" and these tend to match after the second series. Blue means wisdom... The dates, etc... it's all very carefully mapped. Even the ginzuishou looking like a diamond is on purpose. In gemology... diamonds absorb other gem's energies, etc. But this is still fan stuff to me, and supporting the fact this is true does get into OR. Even the flowers she pictured with the senshi match up to flower language... It's quite amazing. Makes me gape in awe.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 08:09, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Where does this color symbology come from? Is there a reliable source on what each color "means" and why? --Masamage ♫ 18:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

It's on wikipedia... Color_psychology Even has stuff on it... for flower language... Language_of_flowers She specifically talked about the language of flowers in Sailor V, said that an Aster means indecisive and this is the flower she had in mind for Minako... unfortunately Alex Glover pulled the translations, even if I know exactly where the note is in the books, I'm not sure if that's safe to reference. Original Volume 2 of Code Name Sailor V Page 40, vol. 8 the liner note at the beginning. Gemology is also included in it. This is why she insists on putting it on the profiles every time she posts them. I think, to her every stat has large significance. I figured we couldn't go on long platitudes on how their favorite food matches their astrology and how the color scheme happens to have significance both matching their personalities, and astrology... Takeuchi-sensei did say at San Diego Comic Con that she believes in Astrology. She included it also in every single last manga she's done so far... that or bloodtype. The Cherry Project, her previous manga started with astrology and predictions. But this is a Takeuchi Naoko-sensei otaku talking... It just so happens that the gems she chose match both personality and type of power the senshi in question has. It's really amazing.

BTW, if you are interested in yet more OR stuff the triple goddess ranks up there. Quite apparent in Infinity and very sincerely done after that. There is an SM page that talks about it. But I think its safer to keep it off. It also includes color schemes, which low and behold happen to match to the character. This is why while wisdom is blue, Pallas's senshi colors are light blue. It's light blue because it coincides with the maiden phase, indicating that Mercury, etc will be replaced. While a strong color blue is more likely to be mother phase. Pastels tend to be maiden, and so on... you can see this scheming down to why Neherenia wears dark green, purple and black. As well as Sailor Saturn wearing dark red, purple, and having black hair. But, this one I can't find support for from Takeuchi-sensei.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability of fiction

For those who don't follow WP:ANIME, take a look at this notice and the linked discussion. This may directly affect our project! --Masamage ♫ 04:47, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More Rankings

Volume 10 pg 138-139 (weird placing, BTW) Out of 51 (last number is 78) No Villians made it into the top 20... The date given on the poll is December 1994.

1. Super Sailor Moon 55,111
2. Sailor Chibimoon 49,800 (making her popular in Japan)
3. Sailor Saturn 49,348
4. Tomoe Hotaru 42,230
5. Sailor Pluto 41,931
6. Sailor Uranus 35,874
7. Sailor Neptune 34,880
8. Chibiusa 27,020
9. Kaioh Michiru 26891
10. Tenoh Haruka 26507
11. Tsukino Usagi 26,214
12. Sailor Venus 22,399
13. Meioh Setsuna 21,145
14. Aino Minako 20,202
15. Mizuno Ami 16,757
16. Sailor Mercury 16,257
17. Sailor Jupiter 15,139
18. Kino Makoto 13,767
19. Sailor V 10,744
20. Hino Rei 10,179
21. Diana 9,744 [ O.o;;]
22. Sailor Mars 7,404 (not popular...)
23. Mistress 9 5,376
24. Tuxedo Mask 4,238
25. Luna 4,225
26. Luna P 3,985
27. Chiba Mamoru 3,543
28. Mimet 3,087
29. Momo-chan 1,541
30. Artemis 1,177
31. Haniyuu Mimi 1,151

I know there is a Dream, one, just have to find it... Easier said than done. Merii Kurisumasu--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 03:14, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

NM... found it...

My favorite volume, 15... Before the Chibiusa act. There is none in the Stars. Lowest number votes is at 147... February 1996 is when it was finished tabulating, etc. That's the date given. (notice the jump in numbers and readership...)

1. Eternal Sailor Moon 62,733
2. Super Sailor Chibimoon 47,680
3. Diana 43,365 (woah... first time a cat makes it in the top three, not to mention a supporting character.
4. Super Sailor Moon 39,903
5. Princess Serenity (BTW, the image in the book is of Neo Queen Serenity) 38,504
6. Sailor Saturn 34987
7. Tomoe Hotaru 28,516
8. Elios 24,532 (Poor Mamoru... never makes it in the top 20...)
9. Pallapalla (first Enemy in the top 10)
10. Sailor Uranus 17,931
11. Chibiusa 16,393
12. Tenoh Haruka 14,975
13. Tsukino Usagi 14,208
14. Aino Minako 13,859
15. Mizuno Ami 12,872
16. Kaioh Michiru 11,548
17. Sailor Venus 11287
18. Luna 11204
19. Sailor Mercury 10953
20. Pegasus 10499
21. Sailor Pluto 10156
22. Sailor Neptune 9645
23. Kino Makoto 9317
24. Princess Lady Serenity 9012 (older form of Small Lady as supposed to Small Lady)
25. Queen Serenity 8283
26. Tuxedo Mask 7391
27. Sailor Jupiter 7188
28. Prince Endymion 6976 (never ranked before)
29. Meioh Setsuna 6463
30. Chiba Mamoru 6380
31. Sailor Mars 6244
32. Hino Rei 5825
33. Cerecere 6244
34. Meinad (sp... I can't switch between languages that well...) 4854
35. Artemis 4742
36. Fish Eye 3103
37. Junjun 2876
38. Phobos 2577
39. Vesves 1860
40. Deimos 1748
41. Queen Neherenia 1621
42. Tiger Eye 894
43. Kunsite 625
44. Nephrite 492
45. Hawk's eye 460
46. Zoisite 352
47. Lemures 348
48. Jadite 301
49. Zurconia 276
50. Xeolite 153
51. Xenolite 147 --Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popularity rankings

Some of the Reception sections are now soooo full of numbers that they're impossible to understand as prose. Should we turn them into tables instead?

I really feel that, even for the shorter ones that don't justify tables, it's a lot easier to understand 34 out of 50 than it is to understand thirty-four out of fifty. This is a very math-oriented bit of information, and if we don't present it as such, people have to do an extra step in their heads. --Masamage ♫ 18:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's an example of a fairly small table:

And here's an example of a slightly larger one:

I'm also wondering if some of these rankings are notable at all... Like stating that some random background character is 37/51. Is there anything actually interesting about that number on its own? --Masamage ♫ 19:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Pass it by AMP first? See if it's OK, then if it is, go for the tables. I think it is notable that Diana made it third in that one poll. That should go into the cat's section. That's quite a jump.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't like presenting the rankings as numbers - to my mind, it's inelegant. MOS:NUM suggests we should spell out numbers that are one or two words long, as all of the numbers here are. I also think that giving minor characters their popularity rankings is important, as it is a tidbit of out of universe information. -Malkinann (talk) 02:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me like ease of comprehension is more or less synonymous with elegance. Anyway, it's important to note that the MOS does not say those numbers should be spelled out. What it says is "numbers of more than one digit are generally rendered as digits, but may be spelled out if they are expressed in one or two words" (emphasis mine). As for single-digit numbers, the 'Exceptions' section says that "Within a context or a list, style should be consistent," so that fits it, too.

The real issue is, my eyes totally glaze over when I try to read Chibiusa's massive rankings paragraph. It's just too much numerical information disguised as language, and there are too many superfluous words being repeated over and over, communicating exactly the same information, which are only there to fill in the grammatical space between the numbers. --Masamage ♫ 05:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Where do you propose to put the citations in your tables? They look too short and numbery to me.-Malkinann (talk) 05:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, they'll certainly need introductory paragraphs to explain about the polls and how and where they were conducted, so the citations could go there. There's also room for a citation in the title of the table; all the surveys could be mentioned in one ref tag. --Masamage ♫ 06:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Then show us, please. -Malkinann (talk) 06:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Uhh...

--Masamage ♫ 06:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I meant the prose, too. ;) -Malkinann (talk) 06:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Um, nothing special? "Throughout the Sailor Moon series run, Nakayoshi held official polls to determine the popularity of each character among the fans. As one of the first major characters to be introduced, Ami featured in the 1992,^[2] 1993,^[3] 1994,^[4] and 1996^[5] polls. Her civilian and transformed identities were treated as separate characters, and at least one of these always ranked in at least the top 30%."

Or something. Whatever the case, the number format needs to be settled. --Masamage ♫ 20:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Any response to this? Can we at least change the current paragraphs to have numerals in them? --Masamage ♫ 19:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Do we have to have the "/51" in the tables? Couldn't that be part of the explanatory prose? Why don't you do a test edit on Sailor Mercury to show us how it would go in a real article? -Malkinann (talk) 21:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tuxedo Mask

I did the "turn this into prose" for the Special Powers section. I added things that people probably don't commonly know. However, it needs an editing sweep, and someone to fill in the missing references. The cane extend is probably from the episode where he rescues Usagi from Prince Diamond. Sustaining Chibiusa has to be from Super, near the end.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yay, thank you! I gave it a sweep and a reorganization and added the Golden Crystal. That was way easier than it would otherwise have been. ^_^ Hooray Mamoru! The only thing I didn't find a citation for where I wanted one was the thing about him always showing up right on time. Oh, the Golden Crystal section probably needs acts and episode numbers, too; do you know those, and could you add them? --Masamage ♫ 21:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Polished off the needed references. Yay for getting bored and watching the series again.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Hee. Thanks! I fixed a typo and removed the word 'only' from the last sentence. Not sure it flows right, but the previous wording almost seemed to imply that Mamoru can't use it because his intentions are bad. ^^ It would sound better as "...by any person with good intentions," but I'm not sure that's strictly true. What do you think? --Masamage ♫ 07:01, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Powers List

This is a list of many powers compleate with their names in Kanji etc. It does come from Ian Miller's site so I'm not sure how reliable it is. I personanly can't verifiy them but if someone wants to look it over and take what we can use thats right. He does include Sources that seem to come from the Manga's Publisher though Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk)

Not reliable... he skips over kanji when he can't read it. For example, Moon Rainbow Heartache was also spelled in kanji (I happen to have an image of that). It *looks* like he glazed over actually reading the manga and put it back into kana after he got the list of attacks. If it were done properly, it should have the kanji and kana as it appears. While it is written with furigana... and pronounced that way I had a debate with him over it. He tried to say it only works *some* of the time. --;; and was super selective about how it should be pronounced. --Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 17:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not ask him here? He's a Wikipedian as well -- User:Ian-Miller. --  Denelson83  18:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not too big a deal either way; we've already got most of the kanji information, and can attribute what we don't have to the manga itself. Nice starting point, though. --Masamage ♫ 00:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Sailor-Moon-stub-List

Template:Sailor-Moon-stub-List has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Sailor Moon episode screenshots not being deleted?

Category:Sailor Moon episode screenshots has been empty for quite some time, as its intent was to hold episode pictures. We don't have individual episodes any more, and the last picture in it, one of the Holy Grail, was removed a while ago? I thought categories automatically got deleted when empty? -Malkinann (talk) 23:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I removed the Holy Grail shot within the last week, since that was never what the category was intended to contain. It should be speedy-deletable now, having been empty for a few days. I'll make the nomination now. Thanks for reminding me. :) --Masamage ♫ 03:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Aaaaand Denelson polished it off. Thanks! --Masamage ♫ 03:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

YW. --  Denelson83  09:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, speedy deletion really is speedy! :) -Malkinann (talk) 21:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guidelines

[edit] WP:FICT has been revised

WP:FICT, the notability guideline for elements within a work of fiction (characters, places, elements, etc) has a new proposal/revision that is now live [3] Everyone is encouraged to leave feedback on the talk page. Ned Scott 22:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Notability (serial works)

There is a proposal to split WP:EPISODE into a more general notability guideline, Wikipedia:Notability (serial works), and make the rest of WP:EPISODE just a MOS guideline. Please join in at WT:EPISODE#Proposed split of EPISODE and/or Wikipedia talk:Notability (serial works). -- Ned Scott 22:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flower Meaning in SM?

http://www.flowerpossibilities.com/encyclopedia/46.html That flower was used in the wedding picture, and low and behold, the meaning of it fits... and it's used for weddings. Orchids in general are used for "maturity". Would this be too close to OR even if crossed with the reference about the Aster? (Sailor V volume) Artbook 5 mentions the flower directly. I'm not sure where it would go though. --Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 16:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

My feeling is that this would be something for your own website. -Malkinann (talk) 21:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree. Interesting stuff, but not very important within the series or outside it. And it's hard to be 100% sure she didn't just get lucky, for all that I'm 99% sure. XD --Masamage ♫ 08:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edit Wars?

I noticed a string of edit wards lately... could we talk it out before all of the SM pages get locked down. *cries* I wanted to work on Mr. Tuxie. I think the question is to wiki or not to wiki. And if to wikilink, how much. Can there be some set rules for this? For now I'm going to note the refs for Tuxie until It's straightened out.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 06:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a guideline, WP:REDLINK. I guess it's a question of how notable the sera myu actors are to the English WP. You can still work in the main article space. -Malkinann (talk) 10:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The edit wars were most likely caused by one guy, engaged in sockpuppeting. I got one of his accounts banned for posting porn photos to the admin noticeboard. After that, a brand new account showed up editing the Sailor Moon stuff in the same way, and when that was banned, another. That was hasn't been banned, though, because he was stopped when he warned him. Probably nothing to worry about anymore. --Masamage ♫ 19:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Project Copyvios

I have removed two sites from this project's Wikipedia:WikiProject Sailor Moon/References: the Oracle and Gina Biggs - Bunny's Tour of the Silver Millennium. In addition to not meeting WP:RS, both sites blatantly violate Wikipedia's WP:COPYVIO policy, which includes not linking to sites that violate copyrights. Why a project that claims to want to improve the site and to follow the guidelines of the parent Anime and Manga project would actually advocate such sites is beyond me. The Anime and manga project does not support linking to copyvio sites and Wikipedia as a whole does not look kindly on editors doing so deliberately. I strongly suggest the project make an effort to remove these offending links from all Sailor Moon articles as soon as possible.

Additionally, I've also been bold and rewrote some parts of that reference page so they actually follow Wikipedia guidelines and policies. We emphasize secondary reliable sources, not primary sources for details apart from plot and basic character information. This inappropriate emphasis on primary sources is why many of the Sailor Moon articles fail WP:FICT. I also clarified what should and should not be used as a reference, again using WP:RS and WP:V as a starting point. Neither the guideline nor the policy should be so easily dismissed or ignored, as the original text was doing. Collectonian (talk) 20:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I would love to talk to you about this and think you make some very good points, but your hostile and accusatory tone has set me on edge, so that's going to have to wait. Meanwhile, you should know that the project page you are talking about by is very, very old and doesn't get much attention (or use, other than the primary sources section). And while we're tossing around acronyms, I'd like to request that you review or at least cast your memory on WP:AGF and WP:EQ. The people at this project have worked extremely hard and intend to continue doing so, and none of them deserve to be treated like renegades. We're doing our best. We're wrong sometimes. It happens. --Masamage ♫ 05:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for the accusatory tone. A large part of it came from dealing with a member of the project who was making statements that implied the project as a whole had approved and supported the links and would block their removal. He then reverting their removals from one article with a hostile tone and started canvassing other people to try to "shut me up", including you, so I thank you for not taking the same tone as he used in his message. My aggravation with that situation is probably visible in my initial messages as I felt it was a critical issue that needed to be brought up ASAP, as COPYVIO is one of the few policies where there is little negotiation regarding compliance. You may also want to visit Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Sailor Moon project and problem with Copyvio where quite a bit of discussion has been taking place, as the SM project is a child-project of Anime and Manga. Collectonian (talk) 05:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why some of the links to the Oracle are invalid. WP:COPYRIGHT says that "if you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work" (emphasis mine). Well, we're not linking to her movie downloads, after all; we're linking to her essays and to her collections of publishing information. They're on the same web server, but if that was all it took, this guideline would be way more extreme than I think it is--even legal YouTube videos would be banned, because one can type "AMV" or whatever into the search bar and immediately have access to millions of copyright violations. So, in my opinion, several of the Oracle and SailorMusic links are legitimate and useful and should be restored. --Masamage ♫ 05:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Was Hitoshi Doi's site removed simply for reasons of WP:RS? His site has been used as a reference by Grigsby and Allison in their papers - surely that has to count in its favour? -Malkinann (talk) 06:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

We do not link to external sites that distribute copyrighted works, period. The argument that we don't link to the pages does not qualify. Also, none of them are RS. Again, please see the fuller discussion. Collectonian (talk) 06:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

From what I recall in the past, there isn't a black and white rule about this. It's strongly discouraged, but if an argument can be made, then it should be evaluated. -- Ned Scott 06:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"The argument that we don't link to the pages does not qualify." You can say that all you want, but I'm not going to accept it if you don't even attempt to explain why not. I still disagree with you. Throw me a bone here. This issue has not been discussed at the other page. --Masamage ♫ 17:08, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:COPYRIGHT: if you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work : Basically what's being interpretted here is that if the site as a whole has illegal downloads present or clear violations of copyright, portions of pages on the site can be used as references if the page in question does not contain said violations. Am I right? How does this address static links to the copyright violations that appear on every page of the site? Checking the Oracle, the side bar of links is always present no matter where you navigate and one of those links is the Download page. As such, any page used as a reference for the articles have clear and obvious direct access to such violations. Fox816 (talk) 20:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I would agree that the Oracle is not a good reference based on Fox816's statement. However, I think Hitoshi Doi's site should stay. JuJube (talk) 21:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, Naoko Takeuchi has never really taken issue with fan pages--in fact she's encouraged them. She's *asked* and literally begged for fan pages to go up. She wants people to talk about her, send her fan art. I could do citation for that, but it's waaaaayyy off topic. And frankly, I don't think most people would care if I went on a long citation rant about her history with her own fandom. To me, it seems you are putting a lot of frustration on this project that belongs to other fandoms. You've had negative experiences with other fandoms. I can respect that people are really bad on the internet (insert whichever selective word you want), but you really need to present specific reasons in such a way that it's clear and concise with a citation rather than a source. What about these pages offends you so greatly? What do they contain that would impede on copyright?

Currently, I have worked for Tokyopop before, and Stuart Levy, CEO of Tokyopop said he realized the flaws in Tokyopop's work. However, he also has hired Alex Glover in the past to work on several translations. (I had to read a stack of manga... all of Sailor Moon and do corrections. And yes, I did reference Alex Glover and yes, I did double check his translations through a dictionary and several Japanese people... and no, the corrections never made print except in Volume 11). Through this time woring with Tokyopop, I learned that Stuart Levy knew of Alex's translations and had no intention of suing the guy. He actually respected him. Currently, Tokyopop does not own the rights to the US translations. (Their copies by Berne convention, yes, but it's still not licensed.) This means it reverts back to the creator. Because her contract was up with Kodansha. The creator at current time is sitting on her multi-million empire and enjoying the fandom for all its worth, 'cause she says it lifts her up and encourages her to work. (Do you need citations for that one?) I have thoroughly checked line by line Alex Glover's translations. There are minor technical glitches, however he's done a fine job of translating. He's definitely a RS and translations under Berne convention laws still belong to the translator. Now that he doesn't have a license may be an issue here, but continuing on to that phase, *pst* neither did Tokyopop when they first published SM. Anyhow, he isn't posting the entire first manga and he's been very careful to make sure you need to *buy* the manga to understand his translations. Tokyopop never saw him as a threat and since no one owns the US license and he's actually encouraging buying the original manga, he's not impeding on the financial end of Sailor Moon. Currently the creator has encouraged derivative works in the form of Doushinji and fan art to such a fevor pitch. I don't think he really violates Copyright. If the creator herself, Miss Naoko Takeuchi goes to a convention and *buys* a plushie from a fan and is greatly honored by the work, I doubt she'd have a problem with translations of said work. In which case she would be tentatively releasing her work under a controlled Share-alike license, which many mangaka in Japan are apt to do. As long as the fan isn't making major profit, I don't think she really cares. (And citations can bound up from back when she started being a mangaka... Heck, just read more than half her author notes and you'll see how much she adores and encourages this kind of thing.)

Now, my question is under what pretense does Wikipedia fear the violation of copyright. Is it because parties could get litigious, recognition for the work being stolen, or what other means? Because Naoko Takeuchi has clearly shown again and again and still has shown since her last manga, Toki*Meca that she loves fan sites more than anything. She hasn't banned the use of her art on the Internet (Like CLAMP) and has clearly stated that she was flattered to see websites on her work and about herself. She;s asked for more and more...

Does that mean we should violate all copyright? No. As long as we do the attribution, citations and fine RS and maybe send her our efforts her way once in a while she's a happy camper. We can play in her sandbox as long as we don't make it canon. (Selective Share alike) BTW, *Random* her B-day is coming up. ^_^ You have to send your packages tomorrow to get them to arrive on time.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 09:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... What about if someone on jawiki asks Takeuchi if she put her SM manga under CC-BY-SA? --  Denelson83  22:23, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

May be useful, but how could we verify her response? --Masamage ♫ 22:52, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps with a digital signature? --  Denelson83  23:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

You can ask her at Luna's corner (Official website), though I haven't figured out the form yet. (There are a bunch of names I can't decipher).--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 14:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

That's a good idea. Seems pretty hard to translate, but maybe we can find someone truly bilingual to help us out? Also most of the questions there seem to be like "when are the musicals coming out?" and "what's Minako's favorite color?", so it might be out of place. --Masamage ♫ 17:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

One of the early ones was on Sailor Cosmos though... But Takeuchi-sensei was elusive as ever. When they had the e-mail and not the form, I sent the question about Cosmos too. Anyway, can't hurt to try, don't you think? Someone can include with the form that it's a question not to be posted... Right now I don't have any Japanese friends on hand I could hit up. ^^;; Maybe someone at AMP is more fluent?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 07:10, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

AMP? --  Denelson83  05:55, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Anime Manga Project=AMP.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Randomness....

I'm not sure if this will help any, but List_of_Emperors_of_Japan has it that a lot of Emperors of Japan change their name after they take rule. (Korea and China is like this too.) I was wondering if this helps explain some of the name changing in Usagi between royal rule and domestic form. It would at least correlate some of the reason Usagi took on the name Neo Queen Serenity in the future an also why Chibiusa didn't know Usagi (as in the name) is her mother. Same with King Endymion. I wonder if this kisses OR. Bt I would think this is something that Japanese would know widely, but the English Speaking world wouldn't.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 23:35, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we can certainly get away with saying she takes a regnal name and that this is common for Japanese rulers. Except that the posthumous name article conflicts with this idea, stating that Japanese emperors don't take on new names until they're dead. --Masamage ♫ 02:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

What's funny is that the articles contradict each other. For example Emperor Saga says there was a name before becoming emperor, then a name after death is given by the article you cited, but that means the Emperor while he's alive has no name. Maybe it's like the Korean system? The Korean system has three names. (well four, but that's too much Korean culture). One for when he's a prince, one for the emperor while alive, and one for when the emperor is dead. The Korean articles make this much, much more clear. And since Chinese and Korean systems are similar, I think Japanese would be too... but I did leave a comment and ask. If I find out, then we can add it.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Going to Watch Live Action Series

So what info do we need from the live action? I want to be able to take efficient notes. I'll start approx. next week... Any basic or complex info?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Nothing springs to mind; I think we've got everything basic. I'm sure you'll pick up some useful stuff, but even having seen it I can't guess that it might be. :) Different people spot different things. --Masamage ♫ 17:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

We could always make a stab at some episode summaries? In some ways PGSM gets different enough from Classic that a guide could be useful. -Malkinann (talk) 09:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

It's been done. See here. --  Denelson83  13:31, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

You could make the same argument about the regular episodes, (Wikimoon, The Oracle, Hitoshi Doi...) but that hasn't stopped us from having a short summary for each. -Malkinann (talk) 18:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I know we don't need any information on attacks. I made sure I got that when I watched it the first time around. More information on PGSM's version of the Silver Crystal would help though. I don't recall us ever actully seeing it outside of Usagi's body but i've also been getting the feeling that the Crystal on Princess Sailor Moon's Brooch is the Silver Crystal. Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 17:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Episode 1

• The crescent compact from the Sailor V series shows up in Episode 1 of the live action. (Compared to the SM manga where it was only a transformation item.)
  • It's not a compact, just a throwing item In PGSM- Lego
• 4-20 is the number of the house on the Tsukino residence.
• Naru's actress played as Sailor Mercury in the Sailor Moon Musicals.
• Naru's mother is given a name of "Mayumi Osaka" and instead of owning a Jewelery store, she's a Jewelry designer. (This is on the sign outside of the center in two places.)
• The plot about Tuxedo Mask being a thief shows up in this episode.
• The compact looks different and is like the Comic compact, and is carried on a necklace instead of on front of the shirt.
• The idea of the cellphone transformation by taking a picture is introduced here.
• Shingo, Ikuko-mama and Haruna as well as a cameo by Ami are introduced.
• A scene from episode 1 also looks a lot like episode 3? 5? Something like that where Usagi tries to become a model. (Matches anime shot work a lot too.)
• Luna's crescent glows dark pink for Usagi, but yellow when producing an object. It glows red for enemies.
• Minako Aino's poster is on Usagi's wall.
• Jadeite first turns up in disguise when he first appears, as a teenger with headphones.
• The appearance of the Youma is also different from manga and anime.
• The Youma shoots purple energy and has many human hands coming from it.
• The objective to collect energy is introduced, but not with what purpose.
• There are costume changes on Sailor Moon. Most notable is that the earrings are like the manga, not the anime and the boots are not red, but a dark pink.
• Moon healing escalation is used to defeat the Youma, and not the boomerang. It's also different from the anime attack in that she doesn't trace a circle in the same way.

• This episode's Youma is the only one done in CG until Speical Act. The rest are people in costumes, similar to Super Sentai. -Lego

I'm not sure which is useful, but it probably will help a little. Basic plot of this episode is that Usagi a lazy crybaby recieves magical powers from a stuffed magical toy cat who says she's a Sailor Senshi.

I also watched episode 2, and haven't gotten to 3, but I'm a little wiped out. I'll do them later.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 03:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Added a few things of my own ^-^ --Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 17:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Takeuchi's opinion on the Rainbow Crystal arc?

Has Takeuchi ever expressed an opinion on what she felt about the Rainbow Crystal arc? (like she did with the Starlights becoming main - and bodyshifting - characters in Sailor Stars) Was it like the Makaiju arc in that it was made up to fill in time, or was it made as "extender" for Classic by the animation company? -Malkinann (talk) 21:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

It was an extender because the anime was getting ahead of the manga.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Update to the Official Website

The Official Website's main animation changed to include the Outer Senshi. I'm not sure if that's noteworthy or not. There's also new letters to Luna and a new splash page. Oh! And Usagi's "henshin" color on the website is a darker pink than Chibiusa's which is a shift from before... minor things... but it's mainly the reinclusion of the Outers I'm pointing to. (Besides, it's cut from a fangirl perspective)--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Profiles haven't been added for the remaining three outers and only 1 item has been added from the looks of it --Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 18:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

She's adding them as she's going through the chapters and animating them. I was pointing to the animation itself. The new opening to the page. (if you don't click the skip button.)--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 12:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I know that XP. I was just point that out so no one went looking only to not find them and wasted their timeLego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 17:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template

Cyrus XIII did a massive update to the navigation template. I reverted it as no dicussion preceded it and left them a note to dicuss such massive changes with us, and why we have layed out the way we currently do. Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 16:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I personally think the changes he made[4] were quite good and a much needed improvement. Then again, there are so many issues with the Sailor Moon pages, whats an oversized template matter. Collectonian (talk) 16:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, those changes are fine. Meanwhile, I suspect that if you, Collectonian, put half the energy into actually editing these articles that you do into aggressively insulting them we might make some real progress. --Masamage ♫ 21:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

As the comment has no topicality here, I will reply on my talk page with my reply to your other message. Collectonian (talk) 23:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interpretation?

I'm having some trouble interpreting a segment of the Anime Encyclopedia article on SM. It goes, after talking about how the dub was brought to America, shown at early dead airtimes and it flopped. then it goes "SM's failure was an object lesson in how a multimedia sensation, heavily reliant on merchandising tie-ins, can crash without adequate support - Bandai would not make the same mistake with the later Pokemon." I'm not sure what it's getting at. Any ideas? -Malkinann (talk) 01:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Story Locations

The Locations page seems to have been deleated... Was this discussed and I just missed it or or was it just deleated?Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 18:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The community saw it as fancruft. --  Denelson83  19:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is the deletion discussion. --Masamage ♫ 05:25, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

>_< Baka... Why do we (or me at least) never learn about these things until after they are done >_< 71.182.141.139 (talk) 07:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Sweeps

So, I hear there are these things called sweeps, which are periodic reassessments of good articles. (Please note that it isn't neccessary for an article to go through the reassessment discussion if the case against the article is considered "clear-cut".) Given the news at WP:ANIME, I think we're close to getting swept. Are we ready for it? -Malkinann (talk) 02:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

For most of the part, maybe we need a quick grammer and vocab check. I think the only thing that is missing within our articles is the lack of reception and influence information. Perhaps we can dig up information on the toys, figures and dolls made in likeness of the characters? The only concern last time with the assessment of our GA articles was the lack of merchandise information. Gashapon was pretty famous, and I have the entire set for the Outers plus the promotional papers you get along with them for the other gashapon figures. However, its difficult to cite due to Amazon not having those items. Bandai also created Star Fighter, Healer and Maker figures about 8 inches tall maybe, as well as the Inners, Sailor Moon and Eternal if I'm not mistaken. Sailor Uranus and Neptune also have their Bandai figures as well. Thoughts?--Hanaichi

The discussion on whether Amazon was a RS seemed to indicate that any shop where the merchandise is being sold can be considered a RS for purposes of proving an item's existence. -Malkinann (talk) 03:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't seem to find a shop that actually sold the gashapons other then the collectors shops in Japan lol. Yellow Submarine was one, as well as Super Position. I'm quite sure that once upon a time maybe places sold it, perhaps during the 1990s, but now stock ran out and you can only find those rare rare items in collectors shops.--Hanaichi 03:43, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

As long as we can get a source saying that there were SM gashapons, I'm not sure we need to go into heaps more detail. There were also UFO catcher dolls? -Malkinann (talk) 03:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Yea there were, except I couldn't buy them due to my low budget >< But I know there were, ebay constantly have sellers putting them up for auction. The UFO doll series set I saw had Sailor Moon and the Inners, Uranus & Neptune. I didn't see Saturn or Pluto for some reason. It has been stated continously by various people however that Saturn items were extremely expensive and rare. --Hanaichi 03:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Stop me there but... Esoteric term alert! "gashapons" undefined. --  Denelson83  05:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

You probably already checked, but just to be sure: what about Amazon Japan? --Masamage ♫ 04:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Forgot about that =[ I would go check but hehe, I can't read Japanese at all.--Hanaichi 06:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

What're these thingies? -Malkinann (talk) 07:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Which one are you referring to? The last one is the Luna in human form gashapon figure, the ones that look like wood cravings are DIY figures that were made.--Hanaichi 08:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] digit code

want the digit code —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.193.135 (talk) 22:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The what? --Masamage ♫ 03:37, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I know what that anon is talking about—this. --  Denelson83  05:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cutie Honey

Cutie Honey is a series that has spanned from the 70s to pretty much now. Hitoshi Doi says that most of the animation staff thought that Sailor Moon would be like Cutie Honey. After Sailor Stars finished airing, Cutie Honey Flash took its timeslot and attempted to scoop up the audience too, by toning itself down for them. So, my question is, is this relevant to the Sailor Moon articles, or fancruft? I think it's cool, but I'd like a second opinion. -Malkinann (talk) 08:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)