Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion/New religious movements work group
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Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion work group for improving the articles related to new religious movements.
[edit] Scope
There are several NRMs which clearly already fall within the scope of one or more of the more specific religion projects, which I tend to think this project should largely leave to those more specific projects to manage. These include, Category:Ayyavazhi, Category:Children of God, Category:Christian Science, Category:Golden Dawn, Category:Iglesia ni Cristo, Category:International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Category:Jesus movement, Category:Jewish Renewal, Category:Nation of Islam, Category:Nation of Yahweh, Category:Neopaganism, Category:Non-traditional Kabbalah, Category:Scientology, Category:Smartism, and Category:Spirituality. All of these are seemingly already within the scope of a more focused project, which probably knows a bit more about the "heritage" of the group than we would. That would leave the scope of this group including those articles in Category:Ascended Master Teachings, Category:Aum Shinrikyo, Category:Cao Dai, Category:Falun Gong, Category:Heaven's Gate, the relevant articles of Category:Hippie movement, Category:House of Yahweh, Category:International Peace Mission movement, Category:Jeung San Do, Category:Manson Family, Category:Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness, Category:New Age, Category:New Thought movement, Category:Order of the Solar Temple, Category:Osho movement, Category:Peoples Temple, Category:Prem Rawat, Category:Rastafari, Category:Raëlism, Category:Sahaja Yoga, Category:Sathya Sai Baba, Category:Shinshukyo, and Category:Church of the SubGenius. Would that be acceptable to the rest of you? John Carter (talk) 17:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
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- Only if there is scholarly consensus for classification of these momevements as NRMs. This should be investigated on a case by case basis. Andries (talk) 17:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure whether the above comment agrees to not including the groups already within the scope of other projects. As to exactly what "consensus" of the scholar community is, that will probably be difficult to determine exactly, although it might be easier to establish that several scholarly sources to classify such groups in that way. But consensus implies searching all such sources, and that might be problematic. John Carter (talk) 17:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- I think that the question whether the scholarly sources agree with each other or at least agree to a great extent about the classification as an NRM has not been determined for the majority of the articles that you listed. Andries (talk) 18:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- That argument is unreasonable.... This is a wiki project not an article in mainspace. Project members can propose and include any article that they want to work on and improve. If there are groups that are already being dealt with in other projects, that is not a problem: this project can be a catchall for the rest. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
- It should also be noted that to be included in a category, including the NRM category, there has to be at least one RS which makes the claim that the group is an NRM, so the matter of sourcing shouldn't be a problem. "Scholarly" sources is problematic, as some might not use the term at all. But, even excluding the groups in List of new religious movements which do fall within one or more other project's scope, there's enough to deal with. One of this group's first priorities might be to ensure that each group listed there is referenced, as per wikipedia policy, maybe including any others we find listed elsewhere as well. That would definitely be a good place to start. John Carter (talk) 15:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
- That argument is unreasonable.... This is a wiki project not an article in mainspace. Project members can propose and include any article that they want to work on and improve. If there are groups that are already being dealt with in other projects, that is not a problem: this project can be a catchall for the rest. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
- I think that the question whether the scholarly sources agree with each other or at least agree to a great extent about the classification as an NRM has not been determined for the majority of the articles that you listed. Andries (talk) 18:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure whether the above comment agrees to not including the groups already within the scope of other projects. As to exactly what "consensus" of the scholar community is, that will probably be difficult to determine exactly, although it might be easier to establish that several scholarly sources to classify such groups in that way. But consensus implies searching all such sources, and that might be problematic. John Carter (talk) 17:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- Only if there is scholarly consensus for classification of these momevements as NRMs. This should be investigated on a case by case basis. Andries (talk) 17:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] List
I am starting a list of subjects which might fall within the scope of this group, at least theoretically, at User:John Carter/List of new religious movements. All the subjects named therein are listed in a book dealing with NRMs, etc. I believe they could all be said to be within the scope of this project, at least as main articles, although, of course, if there is another extant project which also deals with a given subject, it might make most sense to allow them to continue to work on it. We should also note that NRM and New Thought should be differentiated. I would respectfully request that no one add to it till I finish, so that I can finish the setup. My being done will be indicated by the removal of the template at the top of the page. The page might also then be substituted for the existing List of new religious movements. In any event, just letting you all know. John Carter (talk) 19:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Mmmm... sourcing to just Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, may not be a good idea... If we ought to source such a list, we will need a variety of sources, otherwise that article should be List of new religious movements according to Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi :) ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Withdrawing comment about anyone not adding to it, sorry. I also have James R. Lewis' The Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects, and New Religions, but I'm only through the "H"'s in the Beit-Hallahmi listing. I'm assuming, given that the entire Pentecostal movement is counted by B-H as being "new", or at least included in that book, that the scope of this group will be larger than I thought. But I think we could reasonably define the scope of the group as new cults, sects, and/or new religious movements, given the contentious nature of the words "cult" and "sect", but just use the shorter title anyway. If you've got any more to add, though, please do so. John Carter (talk) 21:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- If and when I finish the list of items in the two books, by definition, every entry will qualify for a separate article, more or less, based on a non-trivial reference in the book containing it. Be warned, though, it's going to be a long list. John Carter (talk) 23:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Withdrawing comment about anyone not adding to it, sorry. I also have James R. Lewis' The Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects, and New Religions, but I'm only through the "H"'s in the Beit-Hallahmi listing. I'm assuming, given that the entire Pentecostal movement is counted by B-H as being "new", or at least included in that book, that the scope of this group will be larger than I thought. But I think we could reasonably define the scope of the group as new cults, sects, and/or new religious movements, given the contentious nature of the words "cult" and "sect", but just use the shorter title anyway. If you've got any more to add, though, please do so. John Carter (talk) 21:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
