Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rave

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[edit] Articles possibly in the scope of this project.

I'm no expert on rave culture so I don't want to just add articles that may be in the scope of this project but I'd like to start a list of possible contenders. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can go through this list and make an informed decision. Triddle 15:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

  1. Darude


Can I suggest you contact the author Brian Belle-Fortune his book; All Crew Muss Big Up is well written and covers much of the Rave scene and its history and influence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.74.61.237 (talk) 21:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can I please suggest another image?

Maybe something involving turntables, or DJing, or a crowd. But please, for the love of God and all that is holy, please no glowsticking. Themindset 17:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Well it's a Featured Photo ... Triddle and I picked it because its considered one of the best photos Wiki has to offer. If we get another rave related image that gets FP status ... I'd be glad to switch it. We were just hoping to put our best foot forward.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 18:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Got it. Maybe I'll try taking some shots. I simply loathe glowsticking and the inherent implication (by the fact that that picture represents the project) that it is part of the core of the rave experience - as I don't believe it is. Themindset 23:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's the point?!

...in starting a new project when WikiProject Electronic Music is currently dying?! --kingboyk 10:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps because raving/house parties encompasses much more than simply the music – and – because far from all electronic music is relevant. __meco 11:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree that there's much more scope here than just music, including fashion, major festivals, intoxicants, culture, etc. Perhaps these two projects should be linked, as there's a lot of synergy between them, and that might give the EM project a boost and some new participation. I was planning on taking on the Goa/Psy related material, which would technically fit into the that. Shamanchill (talk) 19:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Good article

Old school jungle is not and never was a "good" article under the wiki rating system. It definitely needs a helluva lot of work.

The drum & bass article was and still is a "good" article. I brought it to "good" status, long after the article was split with the old school jungle article .

After drum & bass article received reviewed good status, I split it into two articles, drum & bass general and drum & bass history. Neither have undergone much change.

The history of drum & bass article can therefore be treated as a "good" status article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.117.224.194 (talk) 14:01, January 5, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cyberpunk

Cyberpunk has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Quadzilla99 23:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

The article failed the review and is currently rated a B-class article. __meco 18:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Related (or parent) WikiProjects

I cannot see that this WikiProject has natural either parent nor descendant projects, however, we should be able to list a few that are related. (I am reading the Before you Begin section of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide page.) These are some that to me appear more or less connected:

When we have agreed of which of these we should consider related projects we should contact them and inquire if they are willing to reciprocate by having us as their relatives, and then we should create a section listing them on the project page. __meco 11:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

If my proposed name change to WikiProject:Electronic Dance Music Culture (below) is supported, I think we should also explore this project's relationship with these other WikiProjects:
__meco 08:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Project page revamped

I have tried to improve on the rudimentary page that was when the project was still considered inactive. If any of my changes need to be undone or changed further participants should go ahead and make the required changes, or bring them up on this page for discussion.

I wonder if the lists of articles requiring maintenance need to be on the project page itself. We should probably consider what sub-pages need to be created as a cluttered project page obviously is a turn-off to prospective new members.

I also propose a member infobox template.

It's possible that all that is needed for this project to get into gear is that people see some activity on the project pages and then will join or get involved. We'll just have to wait a bit and see. Is recruiting from off-Wikipedia rave sites perhaps a viable procedure? __meco 15:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Many incorrectly listed Good Articles

I removed the following from the Good Articles section of the project page. I have no idea how they came to be listed in the first place as none of them appear to ever have been Good Articles thusly.

__meco 16:33, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IRC channel

Could we start attending the IRC channel? Otherwise the reference to it should be removed. __meco 20:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Having remained on the channel for more than a week with noone else joining me, I have now removed the reference to IRC presence. __meco 12:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Rave will remain miniscule until relevant articles get tagged

It looks to me a bit like those of you who started up this project got tired of it before it even started. I don't know if this means you are lost to the project altogether or if you can be motivated into getting involved again. I realized today one reasonable explanation why there's so little activity on this project: With only some 120 articles tagged with the project banner, 40 of which I have tagged within the last few days, a lot of people who might be interested don't get to read about the project. This means that maximum effort should probably be put into tagging relevant articles on music, DJs, venues and related subjects. __meco 14:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Meco - I'm not a member of this project, but I am a member of other music projects and watch many music articles. Today I noticed the WikiProject Rave tag being removed from a few, so I checked who was doing it and found this: list of contribs by User:Pc13. I have never had any interactions with him, and I don't have time to help with WikiProject Rave directly, but I thought you'd want to know this is happening. It seems to me that many of the articles he untagged are appropriate Rave-related music articles.
I don't know what the best procedure is for something like this. If you revert his changes, it will probably just be repeated. You could try asking him about it on his talk page, but I don't know him at all, so I don't know how he would react.
If you do re-revert the removals, you should at least make an edit summary that says something like, "Please discuss on the talk page before removing this Wikiproject tag". While adding the tag does not mean you're saying what kind of music it is, just that you want project members to know about the article so they can help with it.... he might think that's what you're saying with it and maybe that's why he doesn't like it. That's just speculation though, as I said, I don't know anything about that editor.
Well, those are just some ideas. Hope they're helpful. --Parzival418 Hello 01:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I had removed the WP:RAVE tags because most of those articles are irreconcilable with rave music. Rave music is a very specific subset of electronic dance music that doest not encompass that massive dumping of banners that was ignorantly perpetrated on articles that have no connection to rave culture. House music, for example, is not a part of rave culture, neither are eurodance and chill-out music, nor are artists such as Bob Sinclar, José Padilla, Eiffel 65 or House of Pain. And the literary genre cyberpunk certainly does not belong in a music-related project. I'm willing to believe User:Meco didn't know better and is unaware of the history and evolution of electronic dance music. --Pc13 07:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe it is quite appropriate that someone who is not a member of a WikiProject removes tags the way you do. It must at any time be the decision of the members of a WikiProject what they consider to be included in the project's scope. I notice that User:Speciate has reverted most of your edits where you have removed the WikiProject Rave banners, in one instance commenting "It doesn't matter. If the rave wikiproject figures out that there is no relationship, they will remove their banner." I fully agree with this user. What you as a non-member is in fact doing is to divest the project members of the opportunity to discuss what belongs and what doesn't fit the scope of the project. __meco 08:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
It's true what Pc13 writes that I'm not an expert on what exactly is contained in the "rave" term. I don't even know if there is a general consensus on this, at least from the rave article there doesn't quite appear to be, and if there is a general consensus, I don't know if that coincides wtuh Pc13's understanding of it. Anyway, I'm not going to contend with the removal of the project tags if noone else does. I have been tagging a lot of articles (150+) the last few days in order to attempt to bring a spark of life into this dormant WikiProject, and it may well be the case that some articles have been unappropriately tagged. __meco 07:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The problem, Meco, is that you may have been misled by the proposed scope of the project (more than the rave article itself. The way WP:RAVE is set up, it duplicates many efforts from the similarly-themed (and sometimes equally apathetic) Wikipedia:WikiProject Electronic music. "Club scene" and "rave scene" are not synonyms, even if they share some common features. I hadn't removed the tag from all articles you put it in, I left some of the trance and breakbeat artists, as well as the genres, which are associated with rave (like breakbeat, trance and techno). But eurodance is radio-friendly music that grew out of club culture, and chill-out evolved from ambient music, which predated the use of electronic instruments in dance music by decades. I removed those tags because I assumed it was a random link dump, especially because you added them to pop music artists. --Pc13 08:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) It's good to see that there is productive discussion on this point. Maybe we can consider that WP:RAVE is not a music genre project like Wikipedia:WikiProject Electronic music - its parent project is not Wikiprojects Music, it's Wikipedia:WikiProject Culture and part of Category:Culture WikiProjects

Raves are cultural events that involve lots of different kinds of music, social groups, scenes and people. Some kinds of music is played more than other kinds at raves, but different raves in different times and places have varying character and focus. A lot of it is about the music, but a lot of it is about the social experience as well.

Also, a project tag is not like a category tag. With a category, regular WP readers get the idea that something is part of something else, by searching or linking from the category pages. But with project tags, they only affect the talk pages, and provide a way for editors interested in the topic to find the pages and work to improve them.

It seems to me, allowing the Rave project tags on those articles, even if some don't consider that particular music to be "Rave music", would still be good for Wikipedia in that people who are working on this project would review the articles and make them better. For regular readers, it will be invisible other than those improvements. It won't give anyone the idea that "Club scene" and "rave scene" are synonyms or anything like that. What's wrong with that? Isn't it better to have more editors aware of and working to improve those articles?

By they way, I've seen Meco's work before, and I don't believe he would engage in random wide-scale "link dumping." Someone might not agree with some of his choices, but I have no doubt at all that he considered what he was doing, and acted in good faith. --Parzival418 Hello 09:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, no problem, we can chalk it up to Meco wishing to be helpful and me overreacting. I have no problem with WP:RAVE dealing with rave culture as a whole, and not just music, quite the contrary. Since Meco points in the member list to the Ibiza club scene as his main interest, it might be lack of knowledge on either the old (rave/underground) or the new (house/commercial) scenes (hopefully he can expand here), the latter of which is not entirely compatible with rave culture, not just in music but also in the audience. --Pc13 11:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perhaps a name change?

With reference in particular to Pc13's last posting I have also been thinking that maybe this project needs a name change, and perhaps a tweak of its scope. As the rave article clearly documents the rave term itself is by many perceived as "dated" and something they would rather not be identified with. Personally, and again my position is not global on this, I think that clubbing encompasses more facets of that scene/subculture which I perceive to be the intended focus of this WikiProject. I think it is unfortunate that the miserable nightclub article is the best overall coverage that Wikipedia has on clubbing. __meco 08:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Rave /= Rave

Can someone please explain the rationale for adding the {{WikiProject Rave}} template to the New Rave page? The genre ought not be in the scope of WPP:Rave, as the name New Rave is largely semantic (based on New Wave and originated as a joke) and the proponents of the genre have stated (on numerous occasions, mind you) that the genre is not rave. If someone actually took the time to read the article before adding the template that should have been clear. Just because it has the word Rave in the title does not mean it falls under the scope of that WikiProject. Anyway, because no discussion has apparently taken place, I figured I'd take it up here. Please explain how New Rave falls within the scope of WPP:Rave, or remove the template. Rockstar (T/C) 15:26, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally I have difficulty understanding why this would be of concern to anyone not affiliated with WikiProject Rave. __meco 16:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Because the WikiProject is adding an inappropriate tag onto a page. Wikipedia strives for quality, and the addition of something that is patently false lessens such quality. That's all. Rockstar (T/C) 18:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Userbox

I'll join if you can sort out the snazzy userbox ;) — maxrspct ping me 21:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Hows this? — xaosflux Talk 12:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
This user is a member of WikiProject Rave.

[edit] Request for Comment: Merging/redirecting Electronic Music and Electronica articles (closed)

Discussion about redirecting or merging Electronica to Electronic music taking place at this link: on the Electronica talk page. An editor has stated the intention to make this change quickly, so if anyone wants to enter comments, now would be the time. --Parsifal Hello 06:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


The Electronica discussion has been closed with clear consensus to keep the separate article title Electronica.

The discussion about overall organization of Electronic music subgenres is continuing Talk:Electronic art music. --Parsifal Hello 19:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Electronic dance music page renamed to Electronic Music (popular & dance) (closed)

An editor has redirected Electronic dance music to a new title Electronic Music (popular & dance) without discussion, and has made extensive content changes resulting in loss of information. The result is that there is no longer a page about Electronic dance music. The changes were reverted and there was much confusion, so I am requesting other editors to take a look and form a consensus about which version is wanted. Comments are invited at this talk page link. --Parsifal Hello 09:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The above RFC discussion has been closed with consensus to keep the original page name of Electronic dance music. --Parsifal Hello 19:24, 25 August 200

[edit] Proposed renaming of WikiProject Rave

I have borrowed a copy of a book about the rave phenomenon which looks very promising, Rave Culture and Religion (Routledge, 2003). In it the term Electronic Dance Music Culture is presented as descriptor of the rave and post-rave phenomena. I think that we should adopt this terminology as the post-rave culture is distinct from the now historical rave culture, however an extension. Perhaps we should even consider a merging with WikiProject Electronic Music (or welcome it as a joined taskforce of our project and WikiProject Music). __meco 07:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I concur with your idea for the new title for this project. But I think it should stay separate from WikiProject Electronic Music, because that project also includes music that is not at all related to the dance, rave or club scenes... for example, Electronic art music (ie, classical music). There's a lot of overlap with Electronic dance music and other related genres, but the main electronic music project I don't think would be good for a merge. I do think a taskforce collaboration between the projects could be good and would benefit both projects. --Parsifal Hello 08:22, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Pff. Ravers call raves "raves" or "parties" and most party kids I grew up with would burst out laughing at the phrase "Electronic Dance Music Culture".Drn8 (talk) 14:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

But then they probably aren't familiar with all aspects of this culture. What do you think? __meco (talk) 15:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that renaming as proposed would be a mistake and expand scope too much. Are we going to look into archaic electronic music like Syrinx, Kraftwerk, Wendy Carlos, Moog, etc? I think that the word "Rave" speaks for itself for those in the know, and also helps to quickly establish scope. I think that rave culture in and of itself is a broad and engaging topic for many within and apart from the scene.
Although the early raves and huge festivals may not take place like they used to, there's a new generation here in Toronto who get together 500 to 2000 at a time, just like we did and still do, in a blinky blacklit room with a ten or twenty kilowatts of sound and wearing full-on gear. The first and second generation ravers still go hard here, too, and we STILL see very frequent parties catering to these older crowds.
I spent my Saturday night playing (DJ) a party for the 15 year-olds and then another for late tween ahd threens. I ended up at an afterparty, with everybody else all sketchy, until noon, and then spent a quiet afternoon with a 38 year-old female raver. This activity stands well outside of generic "Dance/Electronic Music Culture", and we definitely didn't see ourselves as "clubbing". I DON'T think that this scene is dead, although it's changed and perhaps matured while it's gone further underground, and I don't think that we need to spend much more time on semantics, if I may be so bold as to say so, when there's so much work on the actual articles to do. This project doesn't seem to get a lot of action, but I'd love to see some. Hopefully we can get things moving. Shamanchill (talk) 20:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I am not currently involved in any rave-related scene as my path has taken me into other areas of life. My interest in this remains though, and I will be glad to see an opportunity for reuniting with this life-affirming arena. I would like again to point to the Routledge book I mentioned above. It's an anthology of scholarly essays on this culture. I had only begun reading it, but it seemed quite interesting, and it gave me plenty ideas for material that could go into existing and new Wikipedia articles. __meco (talk) 20:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] image deletions

There are quite a few images relating to Tiësto that have been tagged for deletion; see towards the end of User talk:Alexander Vince. John Vandenberg 12:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)