Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pornography
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[edit] "Roughies" revisited, and "Nudie-cuties"
If anyone is interested in writing on the historical American porn genres of "Nudie-cuties" and "Roughies" (I'm pretty sure Russ Meyer worked in both genres early in his career), I've just come across this, perhaps, useful quote in my Japanese studies. "Coincidentally, rise of the eroductions occurred almost parallel with that of the American "nudie-cuties" (i.e., harmless naturist and peekaboo flicks), the more innocent forerunners of the "roughies". Roughies lived up to their nickname by sexploiting not only teasy nudity but - almost without exception - sadism and rape, usually of women. Main difference between Japanese and American genres was the latter's filmmakers could eventually reveal unlimited amounts of pubic hair/genitalia..." {{cite journal |last=Fentone|first=Steve|year=1998|title=A Rip of the Flesh: The Japanese 'Pink Film' Cycle|journal=She|volume=2|issue=11|pages=p.5}}
[edit] Dick Nasty
The article for Dick Nasty was gutted and then proposed for deletion over BLP concerns (WP:BLPN#Dick Nasty) after one editor added a lot of negative material sourced from Luke Ford. A Feb. 2008 version was less contentious but largely unsourced.[1] The article is now a stub. • Gene93k (talk) 18:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Dick Nasty? The race-car driving guy with that snickering mutt? Surely he's notable... :-) (But seriously-- check out all the sourcing at those two cartoon articles, and then tell me there's no double-standard at Wikipedia...) Dekkappai (talk) 01:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but remember that articles on cartoon characters don't have to follow WP:BLP or need as many citations, as the television programmes themselves are sources. Epbr123 (talk) 01:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Television programmes are sources? But DVDs, videos and magazines are not? Dekkappai (talk) 01:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Those can be used as sources as well. Epbr123 (talk) 01:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, question of sources aside, the point was that a totally unsourced article-- as both of those cartoon articles are-- would surely come up for blanking and/or deletion, were it on a less mainstream U.S. pop-culture subject-- whether living, dead or inanimate. Dekkappai (talk) 18:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- It's because everyone knows sources for these exist, without even having to look for them. Epbr123 (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- "Everyone" being whom? My Korean in-laws have never heard of these characters. Maybe they'd like to see some proof that they're not hoax articles... But you're saying English-Wiki works under the assumption that everyone knows every trivial aspect of U.S. pop-culture is worthy of an article, and gives these subjects a free pass. No sourcing necessary. On the other hand, a Korean children's TV series that has been running for decades-- Ppo Ppo Ppo for example[2]-- goes article-less, and would have to be very well-sourced to stave off an instant AfD after creation.... Non-Anglo/U.S. subjects don't have this automatic assumption of "notability"-- because we think, "sourcing in non-English... Does it even exist???" Thanks, Epbr123, I think you've just made my point. Dekkappai (talk) 22:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Although, on the other hand, Epbr123... If you're saying lack of sourcing indicates everyone knows the subject is notable, how about the next time an article on a Japanese erotic actress comes up for deletion, I point to the unsourced Japanese Wiki-article as evidence that she's so notable "everybody" knows the sourcing is out there, in Japan... We could call it the "Epbr123 Defence." Dekkappai (talk) 20:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- The Dick Dastardly article would never be AfDed, despite being unsourced, as most English-language Wikipedians would know that the article is able to be sourced. This wouldn't be the case for articles on subjects not well-known to English-language Wikipedians. This doesn't mean there are harsher rules for Japanese subjects, as the notablity criteria is the same for all subjects, regardless of country. Although, it is harder to prove the existence of sources on the more obscure subjects. Epbr123 (talk) 20:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- I've come across AfDs like Han (cultural). Picture Blues being put up for AfD. Multiply that by three, and then you have the absurdity of that. It means that subjects unknown to Anglo-phone editors are regarded more harshly than those that are known. And subjects known to editors here tend to be U.S. pop-culture. That's not good for Wikipedia, at least not in my book. Dekkappai (talk) 20:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- The fact that Han is not U.S. pop-culture is what probable led to it's AfD, but the fact that the AfD resulted in a keep shows that the process is fair overall, and that there isn't a big problem here. Epbr123 (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- And I almost forgot a Rimsky Korsakov opera article I started which was put up for deletion within five minutes of its creation. No, this does NOT mean that AfD is working. This means it is a drain on Wikipedia's time. AfD results in articles and images on perfectly valid subjects being routinely unfairly deleted here, and when they are not, still editors' time is wasted defending absurdly-nominated articles from deletion and then reproducing the work some other editor did when the article or image is re-created. This is not an inclusionist/deletionist difference, as you once portrayed it, since you have probably created over a thousand stubs by now. This is a procedural difference. I say that AfD, as it is practised-- to delete articles on subjects of which one does not approve, or of which I have never heard-- is harmful to Wikipedia. AfD should be used to delete hoaxes and vanity pages. Period. Heresy, I know... Dekkappai (talk) 22:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- The fact that Han is not U.S. pop-culture is what probable led to it's AfD, but the fact that the AfD resulted in a keep shows that the process is fair overall, and that there isn't a big problem here. Epbr123 (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- I've come across AfDs like Han (cultural). Picture Blues being put up for AfD. Multiply that by three, and then you have the absurdity of that. It means that subjects unknown to Anglo-phone editors are regarded more harshly than those that are known. And subjects known to editors here tend to be U.S. pop-culture. That's not good for Wikipedia, at least not in my book. Dekkappai (talk) 20:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- The Dick Dastardly article would never be AfDed, despite being unsourced, as most English-language Wikipedians would know that the article is able to be sourced. This wouldn't be the case for articles on subjects not well-known to English-language Wikipedians. This doesn't mean there are harsher rules for Japanese subjects, as the notablity criteria is the same for all subjects, regardless of country. Although, it is harder to prove the existence of sources on the more obscure subjects. Epbr123 (talk) 20:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- It's because everyone knows sources for these exist, without even having to look for them. Epbr123 (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, question of sources aside, the point was that a totally unsourced article-- as both of those cartoon articles are-- would surely come up for blanking and/or deletion, were it on a less mainstream U.S. pop-culture subject-- whether living, dead or inanimate. Dekkappai (talk) 18:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Those can be used as sources as well. Epbr123 (talk) 01:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Television programmes are sources? But DVDs, videos and magazines are not? Dekkappai (talk) 01:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but remember that articles on cartoon characters don't have to follow WP:BLP or need as many citations, as the television programmes themselves are sources. Epbr123 (talk) 01:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Tania Russof
Could somebody knowledgeable please clean up/expand Tania Russof? For example, the filmography is too extensive, and the facts from the one main (Spanish) source are not referenced properly. Many thanks! —Zalktis (talk) 19:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Statistics in the articles
Just want to give everyone a heads-up on this discussion on Jimbo's talk page about the measurements on the various articles. Jimbo's comments on the matter: "In my opinion, virtually all such statistics should be removed with extreme prejudice as being from unreliable sources." Tabercil (talk) 23:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Real names in articles
Another relevant discussion to the group: Porn actors' birth names at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Ongoing BLP concerns - Tabercil (talk) 21:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
